It appears this falsehood is STILL being propagated by fundamentalist “Christian” missionaries despite the numerous refutations of this claim. Sadly, some fundamentalist “Christian” missionaries are slow learners, heedless to refutation or outright deceptive.
Nakdimon is a fundamentalist “Christian”; this fellow idles his time away on a chat site insulting Islam and attempting to argue against Islam. The gloom does not end here as he is a COLLEAGUE of a couple of infamous missionaries whom we have discussed on this blog – they include the fellow who MADE UP his own Quranic verse translation in order to convince his followers Islam allowed BESTIALITY. Nakdimon’s other colleague “limits” himself to propagating the malicious claim that the Quran allows Muslims to have sex with PREPEBESCENT girls See appendix 1 for more information on Nakdimon’s colleagues). You can see why Nakdimon needs the glass of scrutiny fixed on him – it appears a Muslim apologist from the MDI is concentrating on Nakdimon.
Shadeed Lewis Vs Nakdimon
I actually witnessed a debate between a Christian (Nakdimon) and a Muslim (Shadeed Lewis) on this subject; the Muslim won hands down and the Christian had nothing but conjecture. However, this Christian is nothing but stubborn and STILL holds to this discredited claim. Pride comes before a fall/
Nakdimon’s Fall
After a few bouts of jostling Shadeed Lewis has produced a two-part video refutation of this claim and simultaneously deals killer blow to Nakdimon. This will certainly be a test for Nakdimon’s pride as Nakdimon has been peddling this claim for a good while now (despite losing a debate on the validity of the claim). If Nakdimon is sincere he will certainly drop the claim and even offer an apology.
Shadeed Lewis: Does the Quran wrongly claim Mary was part of the Trinity?
Refuting the bogus claim from nakdimon316 that the Quran mistakes Mary as being part of the trinity.
Part 2:
What do Muslims believe regarding the Trinity?
For those who are unaware, Muslims do not believe in a trinity but believe God is One. We do not attribute different “persons”. The Trinitarian Christian attributes three “persons” to God. In the view of the Muslim the Trinitarian is committing the sin of Shirk (associating partners with God).
As for the origin of Christian Trinitarianism; Muslims do NOT believe this Trinitarian teaching was taught by Jesus despite believing in Jesus to be a messenger of God. The Trinitarian belief is a later invention (i.e. it did not originate from Jesus but came about AFTER Jesus). This belief of the Trinitarian formula not emanating from Jesus makes Bruce Metzger’s (and Michael Coogan’s) observation more interesting:
The earliest New Testament evidence for a tripartite formula comes in 2 Corinthians 13:13, where Paul wishes that “The grace of the Lord Jesus, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit” be with the people of Corinth. It is possible that this three part formula derives from later liturgical usage and was added to the text of 2 Corinthians as it was copied
[Oxford Companion to the Bible, Bruce Metzger and Michael Coogan, p.782]
Surely, one would imagine, if Jesus wanted us to believe in a trinity he would have taught it explicitly and these new beliefs (Trinitarian ideas were alien to Jesus’ Jewish contemporaries) would have found their way into the Gospels in the form of explicit teachings (direct quotes from Jesus concerning a tripartite formula as well as explanations with regards to the trinity and its intricacies). One would certainly expect this – it is nowhere to be found! As this post is not geared towards discussing the Trinity we shall leave it here for now.
Author refutes the claim of the Quran being wrong concerning the trinity
Author from IslamicReplies and he has already discussed this claim here:
http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/Quran_Trinity.html
Does 5:116 Mention the Trinity?
Some “Christians” try to use this verse to support their claim. You can read it for yourself:
Surah Maidah 5:116:
"And behold! God will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden."
IslamicReplies states: The Christians themselves have committed the mistake, not the Quran, since if anyone reads Surah Maidah 5:116 (the above quoted verse) they will see that the verse says NOTHING about a Trinity. So we need to ask our Christian friends from where do they imply that this verse is mentioning the Trinity? It is no-where here in this verse, neither does it discuss a triune God.
Did/Do Some Christians Worship Mary?
Protestants such as Nakdimon would agree that some Roman Catholics DO worship Mary. Here is a snip from Bible.org:
While all Roman Catholics do not necessarily worship Mary, the fact that many pray to Mary (which is an act of worship and no where justified in Scripture)
What about 5:73-75; Does this passage teach Mary is part of the Trinity?
Surah Maidah 5:73-75:
"Those who say, �Allah is the third of three (the Trinity)� have most certainly committed a blasphemy. There is no god except the One true God Allah! A painful punishment will surely torment those disbelievers who do not quit making such (blasphemous) statements.Why turn they not to God, and seek His forgiveness? For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!"
IslamicReplies states: Some Christians believe in Mary's Divine Motherhood that she was the mother of God. Hence the Quran here is trying to show the irrationality in such a belief, of a 3 in 1 God. Moreover, Quran makes you think that: how can Mary have a divine motherhood due to giving birth to a birth of Jesus, when Mary was a normal lady like every other lady, eating food and so on. This can NOT be attributed to God. According to some Christians, Jesus' "so called" divinity and the Trinity itself is what makes Mary so special and given a divine status. Quran implies that such a thing is ludicrous.
Conclusion
As shown in the video; it would be disingenuous to claim the Quran teaches Mary is part of the Christian Trinity. Honest Christians should desist with the propagation of such a misconception.
PS: If I get the time I will produce a post with more content from myself and/or featuring something I believe to be on TheGrandVerbalizer’s blog concerning this topic and related issues.
Further Detailed Study:
Mary and Tri-Unity http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/marytrin.html
Learn more about the Christian belief of incarnation here:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/search/label/Incarnation
Learn more about the Christian belief of original sin here:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/search/label/Original%20Sin
FEEDBACK: yahyasnow@hotmail.com
Appendix
Roll up, roll up, read all about it.
You can learn quite a bit about a man by knowing his friends. Learn about Nakdimon’s colleagues:
Here is one of Nakdimon's friends:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/search/label/Sam%20Shamoun
Here is another:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/10/jochen-katzs-sex-with-prepubescent.html
PS Please let me know if any of you know whether this fellow is linked to the infamous ChristianPrince.
13 comments:
mesage frm sam:
Hey folks, we have another foul mouthed dog named DrXoz barking over the fact that Christian apologists such as myself are completely humiliating and exposing Muslim liars and deceivers like Sami Zaatari and Yahya Snow, the coward who hides behind his blog but doesn't have the guts to debate his trash so that all could see what would happen to him for producing such garbage which he calls rebuttals! Sami, Yahya, and JibreelK, the cowardly convert, make a great comedy team. They are better than the 3 stooges!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4IQ94uhrGRw
Send Shamoun for rehabilitation
With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.
I hope all is well with you brother Yahya! May Allah continue to bless you in what you are doing ameen!
This is hereby a standing challenge to anyone from the answeringislam or answeringmuslims team to have a written exchange over the issue 'Does the Qur'an Get the Trinity Wrong'.
The month of November I will be doing a series about the Jews and Israel over at my web site; however Allah-willing the month of December would be good if any of them are interested in having an exchange over this issue.
Ah NakdimoRon! I've lost track of the number of times I debated and defeated him at Answeringmuslims during the good ol days.
the problem with the christians is when they see the verse regarding christians worshipping mary,they straight away think of the trinity but the verse is talking about the day of judgement,so even if christians were not worshipping mary then,they most certainly are now. although romans catholics will deny it you just have to read some of thier prayers and it just isnt roman catholics,eastern orthodox are just the same.
That's funny, I don't remember Ibn defeating any of the commenters at AM.
Anonymous: That's funny, I don't remember Ibn defeating any of the commenters at AM.
I would be surprised if you did since most of the Christians who post at AM are predisposed to declaring their own kind as the winner in every debate. Hence, when Zakir Naik debated Dr. William Campbell, Wood's groupies enthusiastically declared Campbell as the winner of the debate.
Likewise, when Zaatari demolished Wood on the prophecy of Muhammad(saw), it was still Wood's victory according to the folks at AM.
I'm sure Anonymous you also think you defeated me on the topics of Muhammad(saw)'s sexuality, and Walid Shoebat's conspiracy that the Greek 666 is equivalent to the Arabic Basmallah. Let's be honest. You were humiliated. You like to think you won, like the rest of your loser AM buddies, in order to better cope with the trauma springing from the reality of defeat.
Anonymous: That's funny, I don't remember Ibn defeating any of the commenters at AM.
You got bad memory then, Anonymous. BTW you are the same guy who posts under the name madmanna at Paul's blog, right?
Isn't it obvious that Walid Shoebat was never a Muslim to begin with? He can hardly enunciate 'Muslim' without discretely revealing he never had anything to do with the religion in the first place.
Kind of also like:
(1) Negeen Mayel (What was she doing on the school basketball team if she was true-blue Muslim?)
(2) Nabeel Qureshi was an Ahmadi, part of a highly deviant sect, and never formally followed the faith.
When will this nonsense end?
Anonymous Muslim,
Look how silly you make yourself look. You responds to *me* assuming that I am the same anonymous person you had a conversation with elsewhere. But if everyone using the "anonymous" label is the same person, then this would mean that you are responding to yourself, which is silly.
Ibn said: "You got bad memory then, Anonymous. BTW you are the same guy who posts under the name madmanna at Paul's blog, right?"
Ibn, aren't you the same guy who complained about the Fatman's spelling and grammatical errors in another post?
//(1) Negeen Mayel (What was she doing on the school basketball team if she was true-blue Muslim?)//
playing basket ball doesn't have to do with being muslim refuting acts 17. my sister recieved a basketball scholarship and we're devout muslims. but i doubt negeen knows a thing about christianity and just embraced it to impress her friends. one major factor of why some muslims leave islam is because they love the freedom christianity offers. freedom is what satan wants and thankfully we have rules and limits in islam. so now if we look at it negeen probly wanted to date, drink and party like most christians.
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