Saturday, 13 November 2010

Negeen Mayel’s Inconsistent Attack on Lauren Booth's Conversion

Who is Negeen Mayel?

Negeen Mayel is a Christian convert and has blogged about Lauren Booth’s conversion. Negeen operates in an inconsistent fashion in attempting to suggest further study of Islam will deflate Lauren Booth’s feelings of “absolute bliss and joy”.

Aside from Negeen’s misunderstanding with regards to the Islamic source material she quotes, Negeen operates a double standard as the Bible contains teachings which would have to be a concern for Negeen if she was consistent with her standard of judgement.

Predictably, Negeen writes:

Ms.Booth said she had so far only read up to page 60 in the Quran, which makes sense since if she had gone any further she would have hit Surah Al-Nisa, at which point her “absolute bliss and joy” feelings towards her recently accepted beliefs would undoubtedly be confronted with Surah 4:34.

Beating Wives "Surah 4:34"

I’m pretty confident Negeen is already aware of the explanation with regards to this Verse but just in case she has not had it explained to her (o heard/read an explanation) I will point her to Yusuf Estes’ explanation. I hope Negeen stops using this as a hit piece as it is inconsistent and she has now had it clarified for her. Yusuf Estes explaining this issue:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/01/wife-beating.html

Bible-believing Ladies are not easily shocked

Negeen feels this Verse to be “deflating” and perhaps even shocking. However, Negeen must remember she is a “Bible-believing Christian” so a Verse which allows the beating of wives is hardly going to be shocking for a “Bible-believing lady”.

Has Negeen Mayel Read the Bible?

It appears Negeen has not read the Bible and thus operates from a secular standpoint. If Negeen has read the Bible then she is operating in a deliberately inconsistent fashion. Nothing in Islamic teachings should shock Negeen Mayel if she uses the Bible as her standard. If Negeen uses American (secular) law as her standard then both Christianity and Islam will be incompatible with her worldview.

Forget About Beating Women…how About KILLING women, Negeen?

Was Negeen not shocked to realise her biblical and Christian teachings show God (according to Christianity this includes the Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Father) supporting the killing of WOMEN and CHILDREN as well as taking the virgin girls as slaves.

5 Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! 6 Kill them all—old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. 7 “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with corpses. Go!” So they went and began killing throughout the city. (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

As a Muslim; we do not know whether this story is accurate. However, we go by God’s standard so IF God did order something of this nature then we as BELIEVERS are not going to criticise it.

Negeen should NOT have been presenting Surah 4:34 for shock effect based on her BIBLICAL standards as she believes God ordered the KILLING of women and children. Be consistent, Negeen!

[Negeen should also Read Numbers 31:7-18 as Moses commands the killing of women and boys. Our Negeen has no problem believing Moses to be a Prophet despite this Biblical passage. Be consistent, Negeen!]

The NIV and Rape

Did Negeen Read the NIV translation of Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (New International Version - UK)?
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Now Negeen may say other translations don’t use the word “rape”; the MSG uses the word “rape” and other translations suggest rape too!

Was Negeen Mayel not shocked by Deuteronomy?

Negeen Mayel’s book does not support sex before marriage either. We see true Bible-believing Christians will not have criticism for the stoning of girls who are found out to be non-virgins on their wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)

Killing or beating?

Non-virgin girls are killed but Negeen Mayel is more shocked by Surah 4:24? This is inconsistent to an extreme. If Negeen is really this champion of women’s rights then what in the world is she doing claiming to be a Bible believing Christian whilst using secular standards to have a dig at Islam? Has she even read the whole Bible? Really?

Surely, if she was consistent she would have rejected the god of the Bible based on the standard she uses to shock and discourage Lauren Booth.

God does not love all

Sadly, Negeen is very much in the clutches of the extremist brigade. Perhaps they sold “Christianity” to her based on the misappropriated claim that “Jesus loves everyone”. Anybody who is intellectually honest and seriously informed with regards to Christianity will certainly tell you this is unbiblical rhetoric that “preachers” use as a sound bite. The Bible does not support their sound bite.

Therefore, the proud may not stand in your presence, for you hate all who do evil. Psalm 5:5 (New Living Translation)

Negeen Mayel’s Cabal

Recently we caught Negeen’s mentor, David Wood, presenting the most sick sex lie I have ever come across. He presented it as a fact despite knowing it was untrue. The latest development in this sorry saga gives it an even more desperate twist; a colleague of mine has pointed me to evidence David Wood’s mentor (the infamous Mr Shamoun) used the SAME sick sex hoax in 2008. This, my friends, is the type of sheer nastiness are up against. Have a re-read of Psalm 5:5 (above); rest assured we are opposing evil designs!

We are opposing extremist Christians who want to demonise Muslims, the Prophet (p) and Islam for their own ends under the guise of the “church”.

Negeen Mayel has decisions to make

I have personally communicated with Negeen and she did reassure me she does not hate Muslims. I actually believe her and I believe her when she says she is an ex-Muslim (despite some discrepancies being pointed out on YT vis-à-vis her conversion video).

Mr Shamoun as a mentor?

The problem Negeen faces is that she has thrown her lot in with a rag-tag group of bigots/haters and charlatans. Their group is very much in league with the charlatan Sam “Islam allows sex with animals” Shamoun. This is a man who has left a trail of vile all over the net spanning years. Recently we captured Shamoun’s unedifying assault on a Muslim imam in a pal talk chat room:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/11/sam-shamoun-obsessed-with-shabir-ally.html

Mr Wood as an example?

Then there is Mr Wood; his bag of tricks includes sick sex lies. Quite how Negeen can tandem with somebody with such a mindset is beyond me. Rest assured, our David was indeed motivated by hatred when he presented the infamous sex hoax. It sends shudders down my being when thinking about it. Yuck!
Absolutely disgusting! See here for Mr Wood’s despicable sex hoax:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/11/pornographic-lies-on-abn-by-david-wood.html

Mr Wood should hang his head in shame, instead he moves on without a care in the world and his latest post is him bashing Michelle Obama for wearing a hijab! I guess Mr Wood is tearing down all those hijabified picture of Mary on church walls…I guess he is also wrenching 1 Corinthians from the Bible as we speak.

Don't forget Mr Qureshi

There is Mr Qureshi, well he seems to be the less outspoken and controversial. However, do not let this befool you into believing Mr Qureshi (the self-styled “exMuslim”) is intellectually honest. He is STILL featuring material which he KNOWS to be inaccurate and subsequently is misleading people. See here to learn more:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/09/bassam-zawadi-rebukes-nabeel-qureshi.html

Does Negeen Believe Jesus Supported the Killing of Females Found Out to be Non-Virgins?

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 (New International Version)
20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death...

Perhaps Negeen was just playing “sensitive” in order to have a dig at Lauren Booth’s conversion. Others could use the same “sensitivities” and apply them in an attack against Negeen’s conversion with GREATER force using the BIBLE. Negeen, be consistent!

Calling Negeen Mayel to Drop her Failed Argument

So Negeen, which is more shocking; God allowing the killing of kids and women or the allowance of beating of wives (see explanation above)? Negeen, we ALL know the answer and we ALL call you to consistency as inconsistency is the sign of a failed argument.

Negeen using the words of a Prophet (p) for shock purposes

Negeen writes: For starters here are the words of Muhammad himself:

[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142)

Are women the majority in Hell?

These women are NOT simply sent to Hell based on gender. Sadly, missionaries like to leave it there so people are misdirected into thinking this way.. There is a context and explanation! This is explained here:
http://www.islamicsearchcenter.com/archive/2010/05/why-women-majority-in-the-hell/#comment-3371

Common Sense

Furthermore, the issue of women lacking in common sense is not as shocking as Negeen believes it to be. Muslim women can hold the position of scholars and have held positions of narrators of ahadith; thus the hadith is not claiming women to be half-wits. It refers to women being more naturally guided by emotion and the failing in religion refers to them praying and fasting less due to natural reasons [see pg 340 of Moustafa Zayed’s book response to Robert Spencer]

Now we have explained this issue we can concentrate on Negeen Mayel’s double standards.

Does Negeen not know the Bible teaches men are in charge of women?

Ephesians 5

For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior (Ephesians 5:23 NIV)

Does Negeen Support the Kojak look?

Forced to wear a hijab? I wonder if Negeen and other Christian ladies follow the example of Mary and other Muslim ladies by wearing the head covering or whether Negeen supports the Kojak look.

If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head (1 Corinthians 11:6 NIV)

I believe Britney Spears and the lady in the Alien movies went down the “Kojak” route. Sinead O Connor too? However, none of them sheared their locks for Biblical reasons as far as I am aware.

If I was a woman faced with those choices I would just wear the hijab as it is something Mary wore (can’t be a bad thing then) and I would want to safeguard my locks Negeen, be consistent!

Quoting Prophets

Negeen quotes the Prophet Muhammad (p) (see above) and we shall quote another Prophet, Moses (p). According to her Bible, Moses orders the killing of women and children. For some reason Negeen finds the above statement by Prophet Muhammad (p) shocking but has nothing to say about this passage in the Bible; perhaps she has not read Numbers 31

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man (Numbers 31:17)

I take it Negeen is off to tell her Christian pals she has renounced Christianity. She will have to do this IF she wants to maintain consistency. Either that or she will have to apologise for the shoddy shock-seeking article she produced. I call Negeen Mayel to public repentance and a public apology to Lauren Booth.

Liberal Christians?

I’m not entirely sure if Negeen is a liberal Christian who believes in homosexuality, dating and women church leaders. If she is I really wonder how she circumnavigates the anti-gay stance her book takes.

[Leviticus 20:13 and Deuteronomy 22:20-21 teach against homosexuality and sex before marriage respectively]

Of course fornication and homosexuality is allowed in America. I guess, if Negeen is a liberal Christian, this is all rather shocking to her too.

Negeen, what do you think of burning people alive?

This must be extremely shocking for Negeen if she is really taking issue with Surah 4:34.

"'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.. (Leviticus 21:9 NIV)

I guess the stuff about Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit loving everybody is simply sales pitch rhetoric especially in light of Psalm 5:5-6 and some of the verse we have showcased within this rebuke

Negeen: god of the Bible does not love everybody

Do you still believe Jesus, Father and the Holy Spirit love everybody? You see, in Islam we do not have an issue with God not loving the evil-doers. Why should God love the evil-doers? In Christianity it is clear god does not love the bad folk BUT for some reason Christians try to sell Christianity to us by telling us “Jesus loves everyone”.

The truth is; your Christian teachings teach non-Christians are doomed. St Augustine condemned non-baptised babies to Hell.

I guess it is easier to market Christianity in liberal America by changing its teachings; some have allowed gay marriages in order to appeal to liberal America.

After all we do find many women in church leadership positions nowadays. It would never have happened in the days of Paul. Changing your faith to a form of liberalism is up to you but to malign Islam because it stands firm to the teachings of God is problematic for Muslims. That is why I stepped in, just to make sure it does not happen again.

If you are intellectually honest you will make certain we do not see a repeat of this episode. Furthermore, I call you to holiness and righteousness and ask you to review your associations with your current company.

Conclusion

Negeen argues against Islam without a standard of consistency. She is either ill-informed with regards to the Bible or she is being deliberately inconsistent in order to wrack up the anti-Islamic sentiment her superiors expect of her.

Whatever happened to those peace loving Christians? Those Christians who try to be consistent, balanced and erudite?

The answer; some converted to Islam, some to secularism, and the rest have been drowned out by the fundamentalists who spend day and night traducing others and their respective faiths.

Christians: If Michelle Obama wants to wear a hijab, let her as it is BIBLICAL! There is no reason to go ballistic. Mary is certainly thought to have worn a head covering. Calm down with this ridiculous anti-Muslim rhetoric and you may just be taken seriously for a change and if you stop making sick sex hoaxes up about our faith we may just give you a tub of ice cream!

Negeen, if you cannot argue against Islam from a CONSISTENT standpoint then why leave Islam? I call you to the worship of the God which Jesus prayed to. Now, if Jesus is praying it is telling us he has a god. If that god is good enough for Jesus it is certainly good enough for you. Negeen, that god is none other than the One who created Jesus.

I invite Negeen Mayel to come to Islam by putting aside her inconsistencies and misconceptions.

Would you like to know more about the God of Jesus? If yes come to Islam today:
http://www.ediscoverislam.com/

FEEDBACK: yahyasnow@hotmail.com

74 comments:

Ibn said...

A kid thinks she's qualified to be a commentator of Islam. Is that the best Islamophobic Christian apologists have to offer? Lol!

I won't be surprised if Anonymousing is around the same age as this silly girl.

Yahya Snow said...

I just want to put in a few more Bible quotes...for Negeen to ponder upon.


Here is an interesting verse for Negeen…
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (New International Version 1984)
34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)


Appendix 2

God according to the Bible does not love everybody:

4 O God, you take no pleasure in wickedness;
you cannot tolerate the sins of the wicked.
5 Therefore, the proud may not stand in your presence,
for you hate all who do evil.
6 You will destroy those who tell lies.
The LORD detests murderers and deceivers.

(Psalm 5)

Ibn said...

BTW loving the Kojak poster. Lol!

The Fat Man said...

Yahya Snow I see you are now attacking girls, and I see you are still using the tired argument on a single English translation Deu 22:28-29. Actually I found out the NET bible translate it that way as well. So of all the English translations you go to the only two that translates "Tohpas Shakab" as rape.

I already refuted you on this in Email but you obviously did not read it or maybe you did and did not understand it. After all it was rather wordy and did not have pictures for you.

Well I will repost it here all 10 of your readers can see what a fool you are.

The Fat Man said...

@Yahay Snow part 1

Now to refute you on your pathetic isogete of Deut 22:28-29. I already know I am wasting my time because you are so blinded by hatred for God. First you have isolated the passage out of its context, which is a classic Muslim attack strategy. But I will put it in its proper context.

Deut 22:1 begins with returning a fellow Israelites lost possessions, a donkey a OX a sheep piece of clothing etc... They are not to take it for their own. There are no finders keepers. This is important and I will get back to it later. As a matter of fact most of the first part of Deu 22 is about looking after your fellow man as well as not taking what does not belong to you from nature. The birds nest sticks out on this.

Now skipping ahead to the marriage violations in Deu 22:13. Here a husband who hates his wife bears false witness against her that she was not a virgin when he married her. This is a serious charge. If proven true the woman is to be stoned to death. If false then the man is to be punished by the elders and also pay a fine of 100 shekels of silver not a small sum in any time.


Either way you can see that a woman not being a virgin before marriage is a serious thing. The reason being is that her virginity does not belong to her alone, As the New Testament says "The wife's body does not belong to her alone but belongs also to the Husband so to does the Husbands body not belong to him alone but to also to the wife". You see in God, our sexuality is a thing to be kept HOLY we become one flesh "ECHAD" when we are married. It is not a contract something to be negotiated but instead it is a Holy Union something not to be defiled.

Moving on to the next passage in verse 22 deals with Adultery, and both the man and the woman are to be put to death. Again you can see the seriousness of this. The Hebrew word for "lying" or "Sleeping" is SHAKAB. This is important so pay attention.
Verse 23 deals with a man who meets a virgin pledged to be married and sleeps with her in a TOWN. Both of them are to be put to death the man because he violated another mans future wife and the woman because she did not call out. Now I know your going to go off on a tangent about her not calling out. But please do put things in there historical context. In this time there were no glass windows, there was no sound proofing, no tv or radio's blearing, no Central air or heating. So a woman screaming in the dead of night would not have gone un noticed. In other words she didn't call out because this was concentual.

The Fat Man said...

@Yahay Snow part 2

Again the Hebrew word used for "lay", "Laying", "sleep with" is SHAKAB. This is also important so pay attention.
Either way this is demonstrated the seriousness of this sin.
Now the next verse is telling.
This verse deals with a man who finds BETROTHED virgin in a field and "RAPES HER' other translations have force. The man is to be put to death but not the woman. Because even if she did call out no one would hear her. Make sense? But now we get to the word "FORCE" or rape. The Hebrew word used is "Chazaq" which means FORCE.
This word is missing from the previous verses. Again this is important more on that later.
Now we get to verses 28-29. That if a man meets a virgin WHO IS NOT PLEDGED to be married and "lays hold of" or the NIV translation "Rapes her" the man must pay 50 sheckles and marry her and he is never to divorce her.
So lets examine the Hebrew word being used for "Lay hold of" or "Rape" the word is TOPHAS not CHAZAQ. The word simply means "Lay hold of, to catch, handle", etc... IT DOES NOT MEAN FORCE.

Now we go to a similar passage in Exodus that deals with this very issue. Exodus 22:16. But before we get to the verse I want to point out that the preceding verses in Exodus 22 deal with stealing, taking that which does not belong to you. Just as in Deu 22 we have that you must return what is lost, we now have that it is stealing if you keep it or use it for yourself.

The Fat Man said...

@Yahya Snow part 3

So now to verse 16. If a man seduces a virgin, just like in Deu 22:-28-29 that is not betrothed to be married and he Lies "SHAKAB" with her he is to pay the bride price for virgins and marry her and he can not divorce her. But we read something else..."BUT IF THE FATHER REFUSES TO GIVE HER TO HIM THEN HE MUST STILL PAY THE BRIDE PRICE".

So wrapping this all up. As you can see from EXOJEETING THE TEXT and NOT ISOJEETING THE TEXT the situation we are dealing with in DEU 22:28-29 is a statutory situation not a RAPE as in CHAZAQ force. In other words just like in the opening verses of Deu 22 he found something that did not belong to him. Instead of returning it he SIEZED it "Tophas" but he did not "FORCE" CHAZAQ. He SIEZED, TOOK, LAYED HOLD of something that was not his to have, and she gave something that was not hers to give. It belongs to her future husband but since she is not betrothed the father is the maintainer of her.

Now if he was just to leave her and the whole thing kept secret then when she finally was married to someone she could have been stoned to death because she was not a virgin at marriage. So this protects the girl from being seduced and left.

Now finishing up I have no doubt that you will attack this by attacking your own Islamic position. Please don't. If you want me to take you serious please do not go off on a tangent by saying "Oh a woman is just a possession, or a woman is like a OX or a coat, or other such nonsense. This is dealing with sexual union keeping it pure and holy. You do not have the right to any man's wife weather she is married or not. Even if she is willing she has no right to give you what is not hers to give.

The Fat Man said...

Yahya Snow FINAL

One more thing your initial attack saying that "Seize, lay a hold of" a woman sounds like rape to you. All I can say is that you are definitely still a virgin. Nothing wrong with that but hopefully one day you will be married and you will know what it means to "Seize, and Lay hold of your wife" and not to FORCE HER. Oh wait your a Muslim so its all the same to you.

Yahya Snow said...

@ibn

Assalamualaikum

Lol, yeah I just about recall kojak so its good to see there are other dinosaurs out there as well.

Thanks

Walaikumsalam

@Jeff

Why are you insulting me. The NIV and the MSG use the word "rape".

If you believe it does not refer to rape the you are saying a bf and gf could have sex without ANY real punishment...the girl gets away with FORNICATION.

Now, you will have the liberals banging on your door in America claiming sex before marriage is ok.

You know there is a real issue with sex before marriage in America.

If I get time tomorrow I will try to add to this and digest what you have presented further.

And yes, I didn't really read your email first time around. Please stop with the insults though. I really don't think you are presenting something groundbreaking.

Calm down.

Peace

The Fat Man said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Fat Man said...

@Yahya Snow said...
"If you believe it does not refer to rape the you are saying a bf and gf could have sex without ANY real punishment...the girl gets away with FORNICATION."

you really need to read what I posted sir. So you would want the girl to be stoned to death. If that was your daughter would you pick up the first stone?

And your right it is nothing "ground breaking" it is the interpretation of the verse.

Also from the Stones Tanak.

"If a man find a virgin maiden who was not betrothed, and takes hold of her and lies with her and they discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give the father of the girl fifty silver [shekels] and she shall become his wife, because he had afflicted he; he cannot divorce her."

Thats from the Masorinic Text.

Anonymous said...

Let this Nageen greenhorn also take a look at: Exodus 21:20-21, Proverbs 13:24, Proverbs 19:18, Proverbs 22:15, Proverbs 29:15, Proverbs 23:13-14 where it allows you to beat your slaves all you want, as long as the slave gets up & also allows you to batter, bruise and beat your children all you want, till he/she is disciplined. Imagine if 1 of these verses was in the Qur'an, this Nageen greenhorn would go crazy & use it against us. What a hypocrite.

She needs to learn the fallacies before committing them:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/

RefutingActs17 said...

I hope she comes to Islam, and I hope some Muslim sisters can be there to guide her, Insh'Allah.

sam1528 said...

thefatman ,

From you '..but belongs also to the Husband so to does the Husbands body not belong to him alone but to also to the wife"..'. You quoted 1cor7:4 , fair enough wife - husband , they are for each other.
However I believe you have cheated a bit. Deut22:20-21 ; Proven the wife is not a virgin , she is to be stoned to death. What happens if the husband is not a virgin (put aside polygamy)? I can't locate any verse that states to stone the man to death. Can you help to locate the said verse?

1moremuslim said...

To the FatMan

Your defense of the OT barbaric treatment of Women is desperate. A public investigation of a woman's virginity is a punishment for her, whether she is guilty or not. What is disgusting is the display of the proof of the virginity of the daughter!
Now if the man is found guilty of lying, who gets the punishment? Only The man? No ! The woman has to live with him for the rest of her life, and 50 shekel are given to his father. The Woman gets double punishment for doing nothing!

Now , if the father can't afford to show the proof of her virginity, let's say he lost the cloth impregnated with the blood of his daughter, the woman gets stoning to death!! You are defending this practice FatMan?!!! Amazing! You have an issue with a Muslim beating his rebellious wife!!

So a woman screaming in the dead of night would not have gone un noticed

Let's suppose the raper get her unconscious or finds a way to silence her? The innocent woman gets stoning to death.

Get over it FatMan, your case is lost. Nageen Mayel, like many of Christians, will run out of Israel all together, if she was living under Mosaic law.

Do you want the marriage law of Deut 22 implemented today?
Why not?

Now let's see the expert's opinion of the OT: Michael Coogan

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/10/25/coogan.bible.family.values/index.html?iref=allsearch

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

LOL its SOOOO sad that the converts you get are only the people who have not read your holy book yet LOL

The Fat Man said...

Yahya Snow said ....
"Why are you insulting me. The NIV and the MSG use the word "rape"..." and "And yes, I didn't really read your email first time around. Please stop with the insults though."

So in a previous comment you accused me of ripping off or copying a article from Sam Shamoun. But now you admit that you didn't even read what I sent to you. I seriously doubt you even read anything that Sam Shamoun has written on the subject.

So lets review, you say I am insulting you when I call you a liar, foolish, ignorant etc...

But in these simple statements you prove all these things true.

1st you leveled a false accusation against me.

2nd your allegations against Deu 22 have been proven false, if only you read my work, or Sam's work or any serious biblical commentary you would know that.

So wrapping it all up you lied and you proved your self willfully ignorant by not doing the research and a fool because you keep repeating this false allegation.

So again I repeat it is not a insult if it is true.

The Fat Man said...

Sam1528 said...

"What happens if the husband is not a virgin (put aside polygamy)? I can't locate any verse that states to stone the man to death. Can you help to locate the said verse?"

First the passages are on adultry. I know Muslim men have Virgin on the brain but really man you should of read the next few verses.

Verse 22 and 23 both say the man is to be put to death. In 22 it is for adultery in 23 it is for rape, and in 25 it says to do nothing to the girl but putting 22 and 23 together it is obvious the man is to be put to death.

So in three cases a man is to be put to death for having sex to someone who is not his wife.

The Fat Man said...

1moreMuslim

Wow did you even read what I posted, I specificaly said to Yahya not to attack your own Islamic position by attacking the bible. And what do you do you attack your own Islamic position.

I'm going to put aside the fact that keeping the bloody sheet is a ancient practice, that is still practiced today even in Islamic Arab tribal cultures.

Instead I am going to focus on your attack of Islam when you stated "A public investigation of a woman's virginity is a punishment for her, whether she is guilty or not. What is disgusting is the display of the proof of the virginity of the daughter!
Now if the man is found guilty of lying, who gets the punishment? Only The man? No ! The woman has to live with him for the rest of her life, and 50 shekel are given to his father. The Woman gets double punishment for doing nothing!"

So a woman being vindicated, being exonerated of a false allegation is humiliation? WOW that only makes sense to a Muslim.

Lets look at the accusation. This accusation means her death. So her being exonerated is a cause for celebration not humiliation. You don't think the woman we be more then happy to have her parents provide the evidence of her innocence? You think she would be ashamed or humiliated by the fact that she was innocent and a virtuous woman? In what universe would this be the case. Only in a Muslim one.

Second you left out verse 18 the man is to be punished by the elders. So he is to be fined and punished. And it's not 50 shekels its 100. What that punishment is you will have to read the Talmud on that.

Now lets see how you attacked your own position.

It is Islamic law that to prove a woman guilty of adultry you need 4 male witnesses. This sounds good however the inverse of this is true.

It is Islamic LAW in few Muslim country's. Nigeria, Pakistan, I believe Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Iran but I could be wrong on those last three. However be that as it may it is Islamic law in at least two countries that I know of off the top of my head that in order for a woman to prove that she is innocent of adultery she must provide 4 male witnesses.

So what does this mean. It means that if a un married woman suddenly shows up pregnant because she was raped and she can not prove she was raped with 4 male witnesses then she committed adultery. She is to be put to death or imprisoned or flogged etc...

Side note on that, they tried to change the law in Pakistan only to back down to the Religious scholars because as they said "It would mean loosing there Islamic Identity"

So let the denials begin.

Yahya Snow said...

@Fatman,

Jeff,

If I say I didn't read your email first time round then I mean it. Why am I going to lie about it?

You sent me a wall of text (please do resend it) I did a quick goole and found one of the first results was Shamoun's article. So I obviously assumed you got it from Shamoun (the explanation of it not meaning 2rape")

Relax...don't statr accusing people of dishonesty if they skim through you email and then assume you got it from your pal.

OK, I take it back, you did not get it from Shamoun.

Turn off attack mode, Jeff.

You are puzzling. Sometimes you indicate you want to be friends whilst at other times you call me the most "vile person in the world".

Take care buddy.

Have a nice week.

Peace and LOVE (don't forget the love)

You did tell me you are a lover not a fighter. Start showing some of that love to us.

STOP bashing me because I highlight dishonesty on the part of your pals. You KNOW Shamoun and Wood have been letting the "church" down with their sex hoaxes and other deceptions.

Sadly you do nothing to rebuke them...that's where I come in.

Peace

The Fat Man said...

@1moremuslim and Sam1528

I noticed that neither of you dealt with the topic of what I posted. And that was a response to the accusation that the NIV and NET English translations of Deu 22:28-29 use of the word rape is not a Rape is in violent rape but a statutory violation.

Instead you both attacked straw men. Why cant you both deal with the subject.

manny said...

ADAM (PBUH), THE FIRST MAN ON EARTH, LIVED 5,800 YEARS AGO
As per the genealogy of Jesus Christ given in the Bible, from Jesus through Abraham (pbuh) to the first man on earth i.e. Adam (pbuh), Adam appeared on the earth approximately 5800 years ago:

1948 years between Adam (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh)
Approximately 1800 years between Abraham (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh)
2000 years from Jesus (pbuh) till today
These figures are further confused by the fact that the Jewish calendar is currently on or about 5800 years old.

There is sufficient evidence from archaeological and anthropological sources to suggest that the first human being on earth was present tens of thousands of years ago and not merely 5,800 years ago as is suggested by the Bible.
The Qur’an too speaks about Adam (pbuh) as the first man on earth but it does not suggest any date or period of his life on earth, unlike the Bible - what the Bible says in this regard is totally incompatible with science.

1moreChristian said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Let us give it a try and confront his alleged modernism with the Islamic Law i.e. Shari'ah. How long will this modernism last? How can he reform the Quran code of Islamic law without going against his own religion? Will reformed Islam, even along economic, social and ethical lines be actually Islam any longer? If Reformed Islam would put all institutions on equal footing, then it is not Islam any longer but secularism as we know it in America and Europe where the main principle is separation of Church and State.

- Timothy Abraham

Yahya Snow said...

@anonymous (1moreChristian)

I deleted your comments...both of them.

I have no reservation in letting people know of such.

Mr Wood and Mr Shamoun have both been peddling sick sex hoaxes about Islam...yet you try and make an attmept to undermine these facts by dismissing us in a negative fashion.

Play the game fairly, my friend.

As for Negeen. Your spelling of her name kind of shows you have little regard in this area.

You seem to be one of these fundamentalist Christians who simply insists everything from a Christian is true whilst everything from a Muslim is false.

Put aside your bigotry and realise we are humans with feelings too.

Stop hating on us. I wish you people would act more Christ-like. Really!

I also wish you would think for yourself and do some research for yourself.

I notice you had NOTHING to say upon the consistency issue or anything of substance with regards to this post.

I get the feeling you are worried this post may sway minds and hearts. I have news for you...God is the One who guides.

Pray to God and ask him to guide you to the Truth of Islam

Peace

1moremuslim said...

To the FatMan:

"So what does this mean. It means that if a un married woman suddenly shows up pregnant because she was raped .."

In our world, the pregnancy cannot be detected before 3 week after the incident. A girl cannot suddenly show up pregnant. You can only make an imaginary situation, in this world your theory cannot happen. a Muslim cannot be all of the sudden with the company of a rapist in the middle of nowhere.

You keep ignoring all my points about Deut 22. If the woman is found innocent, the man gets the punishment, the woman has to live with her psychopath slanderer for life, as a husband, wonderful family!! Keep running FatMan!

"According to biblical law, a father could sell his daughter as a slave, and the last of the Ten Commandments lists as off-limits a neighbor's possessions -- his house, wife, slaves, and livestock"

Michael Coogan is a lecturer on Hebrew Bible-Old Testament at Harvard Divinity School, professor of religious studies at Stonehill College, and director of publications for the Harvard Semitic Museum. Editor of "The New Oxford Annotated Bible,"

maratsafin said...

everyone should know the fat man is a confused christian, his explanation for each verse is muddled with liberal interpretation or what can be classed as liberal because those verses are so visicious its pretty hard to make them seem anything but.
I also read some his blogs which ne never updates, he apparently voted for obama which is a plus for him but must have caused some friction between him and those loons over AM,but this guy is a sort of liberal and so you can see his desperation when he tries to explain away those verses.

maratsafin said...

also the christians may not like it but the jewsih talmud is a deatiled explanation of the Torah, all the rulings and judgements come from the torah. So the liberal (or radical as he tries to describe himself) can try to reinterpret the torah as much as they like like they have been doing for the last 2000 years but the truth will come out eventually and thats the reason christianity is on the decline.

Anonymous said...

Yahya,

I have refuted you

Anonymous said...

Yahya,

I have refuted you

Anonymous said...

So there you have it. I adress all your concerns with one full swoop.

And if you notice i spelled Negeens name wrong only once out of the two times i wrote it. So what? Sometimes i mispell your name "Yaya".

And i am not a fundementalist Christian. If i was i wouldint be speaking to you in such a brash manner.

But what does it matter if you are too much of a coward to leave my insignificant posts up on your insignificant blog?

Anonymous said...

Yahya you keep on deleating the refutations.

That is hiding on your part.

Anonymous said...

DavidWoodophobes and SamShamounophobes

I just want to warn people that yahya has some sorta way of deleating comments w/o the tag showing.

He must sit glued to the screen all day :)

sam1528 said...

thefatman ,

From you
(1) '..Verse 22 and 23 both say the man is to be put to death. In 22 it is for adultery in 23 it is for rape..'
(2) '..So in three cases a man is to be put to death for having sex to someone who is not his wife..'

I am quoting you '..let the denials begin..'

I copy paste my question again '..What happens if the husband is not a virgin (put aside polygamy)?..'

Deut22:14 states that the woman must to prove her virginity if requested by the husband. If she was / is not a virgin - death by stoning. You shout equality in christianity , where is the verse that the husband also needs to prove his virginity. Failing that , he also must be stoned to daeth.

You tried (dishonesty I may say so) to change the topic to a man sleeping with another woman who was / is not his wife.

Why are you beating around the bush? No answer I gather.

Ali said...

negeen i can tell just converted because she thought the free west way of life was based on christian teachings. i highly doubt she knows whats in the quran or bible.

the new testement I'd say is much more anti-women that the OT:

Ephesians 5:24- Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit (i.e WORSHIP) to their husbands in everything.

Ephesians 5:22-Wives, submit to your husbands (i.e WORSHIP) as to the Lord.

And lets look at some commentary by John Wesley, one of the greatest christian scholors to ever live:

In the following directions concerning relative duties, the inferiors are all along placed before the superiors, because the general proposition is concerning submission; and inferiors ought to do their duty, whatever their superiors do. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands - Unless where God forbids. Otherwise, in all indifferent things, the will of the husband is a law to the wife. As unto the Lord - The obedience a wife pays to her husband is at the same time paid to Christ himself; he being head of the wife, as Christ is head of the church.
We clearly see a wife is inferior.


Colossians 3:18- Wives, submit (i.e WORSHIP) to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
These verse's tells us women are second class. First comes the Lord, then comes Man, then comes women, and the woman needs to be obediant/submissive to the one with authority over her.
And thise verse further proves women come second after men:

1 Corinthians 11:3 "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

So I guess God is the head of God?

1 Corinthians 11:7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man."


1 Peter 3:6- Just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

This verse above CLEARLY proves my point.

1 Timothy 2:12- I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
Notice the authority part? We're clearly seeing inferiority of women.

1 Corinthians 7:1 - "Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.
Yeah just in case his wife doesn't worship him. But at the same time, Paul said the evil ones are those who don't allow people to marry (this is a continuation from verses 1-2)

1 Timothy 4:3- They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

And strangley, Paul wrote the cursed are the ones who tell people not to marry.

1 Corinthians 7:1- Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman
Ouch.

Titus 2:3-5- The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands,
to love their children, [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient (hupotasso) to their own
husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
Again we see women being picked on. They need to be sober, the need to be obedient, and they need to stay at home. The stay at home part fits perfectly, since women cannot have authority over man, and cannot teach man either.

Ali said...

1 Timothy 2:11- A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
And here's the following verse (2:12)
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

most bible commentators divert you from the actual teachings of the bible, but John Wesley does a great job. Read his notes, and moreover he speaks of women in these verses as a part of SOCIETY. It's not limited to marriage.

Romans 7:2-3- For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress.

1 Corinthians 7:39- A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord

The last few words in this verse mean the wife's new husband must be a christian. But read how she's "bound to he husband as long as he lives"

Matthew 5:32- But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Some christians say Ephesians 5:25-28 tell a man has to love his wife and treat their bodies like their own. True, but these verses that tell a woman is inferior to men, that she has to see the husband as a "second lord", the "treat their bodies like your own" has to mean the woman's body is a posession to men.

Mathew 15:4- "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'
Here we see Jesus talking about honour killings. Rebelious abd disobedient children must be put to death.

The Fat Man said...

@ maratsafin you made a claim that the Talmud has a different interpretation of Deu 22:28-9. But you did not provide this interpretation or a source?
Which Talmud Jerusalem or Babylonian?

Please provide your source other wise it is just a baseless accusation.

The Fat Man said...

SAM1528 said ...
"You tried (dishonesty I may say so) to change the topic to a man sleeping with another woman who was / is not his wife."

The topic of my post is dealing with Deu 22:28-29 so if anyone is changing the topic it is you.

your question "What happens if the husband is not a virgin (put aside polygamy)?..'"

So in deu 22 we have 4 cases where a man has sex outside of marriage, two of them deal with adultry one with Rape and the last deals with statutury sex. So we have three cases where the man is to be put to death, and a third where he must marry the woman and not leave her disgraced.

I don't want to give you class on human sexuality but I can assure you that in all of the cases the man was NOT A VIRGIN.

Now can you tell me how a man CAN BE PHYSICALLY PROVEN to BE OR NOT BE A VIRGIN?

The Fat Man said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
The Fat Man said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Yahya Snow said...

@Fatman

I see you are on a roll.

Your comments have been l=deleted and will be discussed in a blog post...God willing

Yes, I said God willing!

Watch this space.

I bid you good night and we shall discuss your comments and concerns in a blog post...tomorrow (either early morning after morning prayer OR in the evening)...God willing.

I was extremely disappointed in your comments.

The Fat Man said...

Yahya wow you removed my comments? WHY

maratsafin said...

@fatman i wasnt just talking about the issues in deut i was talking about the whole torah and that the talmud jerusalem or babylonian have some very uncomfortable rulings/explanations derived from the torah which christians with thier wishy washy thinking find very hard to come to terms with.so fatman you can try as best as you want to make your self feel better about the some the many rulings in the torah by reinterpreting them but as i say the truth is there for all to see and the truth is not helping the christian cause. Now i come tothink of it is no wonder the catholics hated lay men and women reading the bible and hated the fact if the bible was translated into anyhting other than latin ( a crime that was sometimes punishble by death)

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

Mash'Allah. I was just listening to a Khutbah where it was said those people whom we think hate this religion the most once Allah opens their hearts they become it's STRONGEST SUPPORTERS!

Here is looking to the future :)

The Fat Man said...

TGV you really believe that?

The Fat Man said...

@maratsafin

Ok do you haven any Midresh or Talmud comentary on DEU 22?

sam1528 said...

thefatman ,

Why are you dodging the question? Your answer is about the man having illicit sex.

My question is that on equality basis (that you continuously shout) , the man is also required to prove his virginity.

Now you have come to your senses that it is virtually impossible to question a man's virginity. In that essence per deut22:20-21 why question a woman's virginity (and stone her to death if she is not a virgin) but she has got to live with her leech of a husband if her virginity has been proven whereas its close to impossible to question the man's virginity. This is double standards in christianity yet you claim christianity does not oppress women.

Care to rethink your position?

Anonymous said...

FatMan, tgv is right when he said:

I was just listening to a Khutbah where it was said those people whom we think hate this religion the most once Allah opens their hearts they become it's STRONGEST SUPPORTERS!

This is very true indeed. Islam has one thing going for it, structure, something missing in the west. Islam will take lost lonely poor souls and after its done brainwashing them, those newMuslim souls go and slaughter their brothers in the name of rasulallah.

Classic satan.

Anonymous said...

maratsafin,

why would any Christian need to "come to terms" with what some Jewish rabbi said 300 years after Jesus? .

You Muslims come to terms with your violent prophet.

WomanForTruth101 said...

Ahaha why is this anonymous character hiding his/her true identity?
I think when Christian's claim that Islam brainwashes people, it's actually converts who've studied Islam intensely and figured out it's the only way. To gain momentum, they come up with laughable attacks somehow relating it to Muhammed (pbuh).

This is classic Satan, or classic holy spirit.

WomanForTruth101 said...

One thing Anonymous got right was when he said Muslims will kill their brother's. Al Queda and the Taliban persecute Muslims (last August 4 Mufti's were tageted and killed, one of the Mufti's was a woman). We see Satan operating in the blood of the extremists. We also see the same devil controlling fundemental Christian missionaries.

The Fat Man said...

WomanForTruth101 I feel I should warn you, I hope it's not to late.

You can say anything you want about me, you can call me or any Christian any name or any vulgarity you want. You can even do the same against Christ and the Father.

Do not ever ever blaspheme against his holy spirit. Saying such things as the holy spirit is a liar or that the holy spirit is Satan.

Unlike in Islam were the one unforgivable sin is actually forgivable. In Christ the one unforgivable sin can never be forgiven. I hope you have not crossed that line.

The Fat Man said...

Womanoftruth if you have no guilt over what you just typed regarding the holy spirit. Then that is a sign that you have indeed blasphemed.

Ibn said...

Fatman: Unlike in Islam were the one unforgivable sin is actually forgivable. In Christ the one unforgivable sin can never be forgiven. I hope you have not crossed that line.

Not to worry. Since Christ died for ALL the sins of mankind, he died for the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit as well as.

YFC777 said...

WomanForTruth101: By the words of Jesus himself blaspheme against his holy spirit is an unforgivable sin. You did exactly the same thing that Mark 3 mentions.. Fear God and don't do this knowingly again. We can only advice, at the end of the day it is your life and your deeds.

Mark 3:28-29: "I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." Jesus said this in response to the Pharisees, who had called the Holy Spirit by whom Jesus cast out demons an unclean spirit.

The Fat Man said...

Ibn your completely wrong sir, as YFC777 pointed out.

"Mark 3:28-29: "I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." Jesus said this in response to the Pharisees, who had called the Holy Spirit by whom Jesus cast out demons an unclean spirit."

IBN this is no joke. If she did this she is done. Before she had hope of still receiving hope. If she has infact blasphemed then she no longer has that.

Womanoftruth I tell you if you feel no guilt or shame at what you typed then you have blashpemed and I'm sorry for you. You did not hurt me or any other Christian with that vile statement. You destroyed yourself.

Anonymous said...

woman for truth said:

"why is anonymous hiding his true identity"

because some muslim is using my "true identity" and is pretending to be me.

from now on ill sign my posts

- Anonymousing (who else did you think it was ?)

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

YCF777, I hope you take your own advice if you are not of the reformed faith tradition.

However, if you are of the reformed faith tradition than you better warn the Berean Call, David Hunt, and countless other Christian evangelist who are calling the Holy Spirit a Kundulini Devil!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpSqePkn-p0

< Looks like you got some cleaning up to do in your own house before you go wagging your finger at WomanofTruth or maratsafin

Anonymous said...

One thing Anonymous got right was when he said Muslims will kill their brother's.

WOman, when i said that i mean their BROTHERS in ADAM. You know, like brothers in HUMANITY. After they are brainwashed they go and kill westerners for rasulallah.

-Anonymousing

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

Anonymous said...

FatMan, tgv is right when he said:

I was just listening to a Khutbah where it was said those people whom we think hate this religion the most once Allah opens their hearts they become it's STRONGEST SUPPORTERS!

Thank you @ Anonymous! By the way opens their hearts also means from snide remarks, quips, and sarcasm.

And anyone who has to call our beloved Prophet (saw) by a three letter short name concedes all discussion, and civility by their own frustrated attempts.

No one replies by saying , So much for Cheese-us Christ.

If we can't have some decorum when dealing with one another than it just re-affirms what I have believed for quite some time.

It is Christian apologetic that is indeed bankrupt.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous! By the way opens their hearts also means from snide remarks, quips, and sarcasm.

Im sorry grand, but unfortunately if you take a hater out of one copy and shadow of the Heavenly Gift, and put that hater in another copy and shadow of the Heavenly Gift, you still come out with a hater but in a different copy.

The TRUE solution for hate is AL HAQQ. And al haqq isnt "Christianity" or "islam" or "religions" or "denominations" - quite simply it is the Lord Jesus Christ.

-Anonymousing

Anonymous said...

And anyone who has to call our beloved Prophet (saw) by a three letter short name concedes all discussion, and civility by their own frustrated attempts.

what you mean SAW? or do you mean rasulallah?

-Anonymousing

Anonymous said...

No one replies by saying , So much for Cheese-us Christ.

Well one cannot really say "so much for" about Jesus like they can for SAW (? is that better?).

You see there is no "so much for", since unlike Muhammad who died and was buried in his grave, Jesus The Christ ROSE from THE DEAD.

-Anonymousing

Anonymous said...

whoo hooo mr Grand,

I know your still sitting there, why dont you interact a little?

By the way opens their hearts also means from snide remarks, quips, and sarcasm.

Bro, i pray to God you would apply your own standard to your way of interaction and to your blog - your eyes would partially open. I will pray for you now. And i will pray that you Muslims stop blaspheming the Spirit, killing Christians in Iraq, and come out of your bonds.

concedes all discussion, and civility by their own frustrated attempts.

You know what i find interesting about this, that by TGV standard SAW (Muhammad) concedes to all discussion and civility by what he said in the Quran:

Surah 98.6 - the Jews and Christians are the worst of creatures!"

It would be simply amazing if the Muslims would apply their own inherited western standard to the Quran!

-Anonymousing

Anonymous said...

whoo hooo mr Grand,

I know your still sitting there, why dont you interact a little?

By the way opens their hearts also means from snide remarks, quips, and sarcasm.

Bro, i pray to God you would apply your own standard to your way of interaction and to your blog - your eyes would partially open. I will pray for you now. And i will pray that you Muslims stop blaspheming the Spirit, killing Christians in Iraq, and come out of your bonds.

concedes all discussion, and civility by their own frustrated attempts.

You know what i find interesting about this, that by TGV standard SAW (Muhammad) concedes to all discussion and civility by what he said in the Quran:

Surah 98.6 - the Jews and Christians are the worst of creatures!"

It would be simply amazing if the Muslims would apply their own inherited western standard to the Quran!

-Anonymousing

Anonymous said...

OHHHH

I think i know what you mean by that now! Did i say MOE instead of Muhammad one time? LOL sorry for insulting your beloved prhophet but frankly, simply shortening Muhammad to Moe is nothing like whta you did "Cheesus as Jesus" - thats just what i would call a snide remark.

What is insulting is the defly silence from the Muslim world when your Muslim brothers and sisters slaughter Christians.

Peace

-Anonymousing

Anonymous said...

Well i guess it would be inconsistent with the Quran and his beloved prhophet for TGV to speak with a musharkeen like me.

Just dropping by to tell Yahya i cant wait for that article about Fatmans posts.

-Anonymousing

The Fat Man said...

Anonymous said...

"Just dropping by to tell Yahya i cant wait for that article about Fatmans posts."

I wouldn't hold your breath he said "Inshalla" and when he says that he never responds. Allah is never willing for him to respond to me.

The Fat Man said...

TGV so are you saying that it is possible for a total hater, a persecutor even someone who goes around murdering Muslims to become a Muslim even to the point of becoming it's greatest supporter?

YFC777 said...

@TGV

You provided a video link and falsely accused Dave Hunt of stating that the Holy Spirit and the Kundulini devil are the same. No where in the entire video does he say such a thing. The video is not at all about the Christian Holy Spirit but about the evil force of the Kundulini devil and the occult.

Christians and sincere Muslims please see the video yourself and decide for yourselves if TGV's interpretation is correct or he is just trying to decieve you.

This is the link he posted - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpSqePkn-p0

Ibn said...

Fatguy:Ibn your completely wrong sir, as YFC777 pointed out."Mark 3:28-29:

Then you have a contradiction. If Jesus died for All the sins of mankind, then he also died for the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. If he did not die for that sin, then he did not die for all the sins of mankind. If he did not die for all the sins of mankind, his sacrifice means nothing.

Yahya Snow said...

anonymousing + THEFATMAN@

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/11/keithtruth-defends-indefensible-sam.html

Negeen said...

There is no doubt that I did not apply the same level of criticism towards my Christian beliefs as I did towards my Muslim faith. There are lots of reasons for this and I will forever regret that I did not do this. But I was young, naive, and taken advantage of. My soul was empty, Christian's saw it and filled the emptiness with a Bible and full throttle indoctrination. 15-17 was way to young for me to be doing the things I was doing and saying the things I was saying I forever regret them, but I also attribute this to a lack of direct parental involvement in my life. I wish I could figure out a way to best express what happened to me and what motivated my decisions and the statements I made during this time, but I'm still not sure how to go about it with a heart that is not filled with bitterness and anger towards those who I feel took advantage of my youth and my muslim background. One day I will share more. -Negeen