A MUSLIM has to nudge Christians to accuracy yet again. Perhaps brother James made a mistake whilst filling out his Face Book profile or perhaps he was over-selling himself - I don't know as to the reason behind such an inaccurate statement BUT it needs to be corrected as it is misleading.
Anyway, the simple fact is, he does not know Arabic!
As you know, I’m not Dave Wood so I don’t make stuff up and here is the screen shot to reinforce my investigations; click, then click again with the magnifier for a better gander (nice English word!)
Oh yeah, I was forced to set up a Face Book account. I’m not a fan of FB though. If you require any other Christian outreach to be investigated please do not hesitate to email me - however, I do have a backlog of issues to bring to the public (cyber) realm.
Muslims Abjure Christians
I'm glad MUSLIMS are at the forefront of calling Christian apologists to accuracy. At this minsitry we do investigate Christian outreaches to Muslims and we are yet to see one pass our criteria of investigation - fine decorum, accuracy of information, honesty and consistency.
In fairness to brother James, he could have made the claim in haste (or as the commenter pointed out - simply imitated others who use lax criteria on FB). I do, also, ask him to double check the claim of knowing Latin whilst making the required corrections to the "knowing Arabic" claim. Kudos to the CHRISTIANS (see Peter Lumpkins' comment boards) who brought this issue to the fore. However, we should be slow to denounce the chap harshly as the design behind the comment is not known.
Are you really guided by the Holy Spirit?
New book on Islam by Dr James White?
Feedback: yahyasnow@hotmail.com
18 comments:
with the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.
As salamu 'alikum wr wb brother Yahya.
Slight correction if you allow. I don't believe that you confirmed that James White has a doctorate. If so I would kindly like to know how you 'confirmed' it. If you are taking White for his word this is problematic.
There are certain procedures and things that need to be done even when a college is unaccredited.
Finally, a question about James White's dissertation. I did not see A COPY OF HIS DISSERTATION at Columbia Evangelical Seminary, even though it is soon to be published. Did White write his dissertation before his coursework was completed? What about his thesis?
Now look carefully what James White says in response to this.
“This is purely my fault, as I noted above. I had begun the process of providing the hard-bound dissertation WHEN MY HARD-DRIVE FAILED. Dr. Walston has been kind enough to allow me to focus upon making the work publication-ready, though I still have to finish the conversion process and submit the hard-copy. Dr. Walston read the dissertation in electronic form, recognizing that it was going to be published. I would go into the"publish or perish" concept in many schools, but that might indeed seem self-serving”
Because I'm afraid unless you have seen or were given a copy of his doctorate brother Yahya I am afraid the kind of evidence that you would be willing to accept as evidence would be sub standard that we would expect from a person engaged in apologetics.
Allah knows best.
James White Knows Arabic?? Do You mean he knows that Arabic exists in the world or what?
He can't read Arabic.
He can't write Arabic.
He can't speak Arabic.
What does it mean to "Know" Arabic, if he can't do none of the Above?
Walaikumsalam TGV,
Your standards of proof are strict - fair play to you.
I wanted to check for some definitive proof (ie a certificate) concerning him having an unaccredited doctorate before responding.
However, I'm pushed for some time and am beginning to doubt that type of proof may not be available.
Do allow me to explain my reasoning n confirming the bloke has his qualification.
I simply went off what his more vehement critics were saying, They were unanimous about him having the qualification. The only issue was that of accreditation.
So, I used that to confirm him having his qualification.
I'm not too familiar with America. I have a degree but I have never heard of unaccredited doctorates in the UK. The first time I heard of such was when looking at atheist investigations into the Christian, Dr Kent Hovind. From what I recall, this fella has an unaccredited doctorate too.
Now, I assume Robert Morey's is the same and I assume the pastors on ABN have similar qualifications.
So this seems to be an American thing - perhaps its big amongst Christian evangelists too. All of them do call themselves doctors so White is not deceiving anybody when he appends such a title to his name.
TGV, I am surprised his work is not online. I would not mind viewing it myself BUT was his qualification dependent on his dissertation?
Who knows what standards the institute used to award the qualification.
I'm going to stick with the idea the bloke has the doctorate unless I see firm evidence he does not.
Surely, the intimation that you are presenting; White deceiving us all for over a decade into thinking he has an unaccredited qualification when he does not even have that is too audacious to believe - unless proof is presented.
I mean, if White wanted to fib, then surely he would have claimed to have a qualification from am established university (accredited).
I will keep my eyes peeled for a copy of the certificate.
Where is radical moderate or shamoun when you need them!!!
Radical, help me out by linking me to a page which satisfies TGV!!
PS, MY COMMENTS ALWAYS GET MANGLED
should read:
I'm pushed for time
I'm beginning to doubt that proof exists
reasoning in confirming
big amongst Christian evangelical communities
"My comments always get mangled"...Well spoken, I have observed that about your comments a lot.
Your list of languages from James fb page conspicuously leaves out Hebrew, and it is strange to hear you say "I assume he knows Greek". There is NO question that he knows both languages.
Since most Muslims, yourself included, don't know Arabic, it is understandable that you would challenge whether or not Dr. White knows Arabic. Personally I cannot say the extent to which he has progressed in his knowledge of Arabic, but surely you know he has been studying the language for a little while now. In any event, I do detect more than a little envy in your comments regarding this and this, it would appear, has lead you to make slanderous accusations of falsehood and lying to him without good grounds. What a shame.
I hope you will come to hold yourself to a higher standard of accuracy and honesty in reporting in the future. Certainly you don't do any good for a religion with a VERY BAD image already by carrying on this way. Consider...
Let me forestall your typical comebacks by letting you know that the appropriate response to what I have written above is not anything like the following:
"Calm down..."
"What is this bloke on about..."
"Etc...."
@anonymous,
Calm down.
I get the feeling you are Sam.
I know more Arbaic than White - rest assured I'm not "envious".
I stated, I assume the bloke knows Greek and German.
BUT ARABIC, he does not know!
I don't know about Latin...perhaps you will help me out...
I call you to stop reading your malice into the text.
CHRISTIANS were calling James White out on this issue. I investigated it and the CHRISTIANS are correct - Whiote has claimed to know Arabic despite being unlearned in the language.
CHRISTIANS were calling him out as a liar over this.
I have made excuses for him by writing something to the extenct of "he may have wrote it in error or haste".
I appeal for calm.
I am not the enemy here. I have simply showcased a screenshot.
NOBODY is jealous of the man - well at least I'm not!
Perhaps Sam (or whomever this anonymous is) is projecting his insecurities of envy onto others.
PLEASE do view the post where I confirm White has a doctorate. Now that is what you call fairness.
Please be calm and collected in your approach - you are seeing things which do not exist.
PS, I did not deliberately miss out Hebrew.
Rest assured, it is on the FB screenshot. I'm not hiding the fact he has claimed to know Hebrew.
I assume he knows Hebrew.
I hope that ends the controversy.
BTW, when I say, assume - I'm inclining towards the positive and am simply looking for confirmation. Perhaps you will provide confirmation.
The real issue is him not knowing Arabic. For some reason you are getting angry over me not mentioning him as knowing Hebrew.
Who cares?
The title refers to Arabic and that's the focus of the post and that's the reason why a screenshot was presented.
I allow you to comment as I allow for accountability.
I'm not the Muslim version of Dave Wood or Sam.
If you are still upset please do advise me as to what you would like me to add to the post.
At the moment you and I are on a different page - let's try to understand each other.
I've rushed these comments so I may not have been as clear as I would have liked - if require clarification please let me know.
I make my email available to all.
PS, this offer still stands even if you are Sam.
Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another
You really need to get some more tricks to put in your bag. Even after predicting that you would try to poison the well by suggesting that I was angry and excited, you rushed headlong into the same old and tired approach you find to be so helpful to the cause. Anything for the cause, I guess.
Rather than attack me, as I predicted you would, and tell me to calm down, you should have just dealt honestly with the facts:
1. James knows Hebrew and Greek. About that there can be NO question. He has taught courses in both and even served as a critical consultant for the NASB (update). These are easily verifiable facts, and anyone claiming to do any kind of reporting surely loses credibility when he pretends like he needs to "assume" such. Please do your homework first, then play reporter.
When you ask questions about things that are easily verified, and leave the impression with those who are even more lazy than you are that their might be some reason to doubt such things, you are not only calling your own credibility into question, but you are tarnishing the image of someone. That might not mean much to you, but in Christianity we believe this implicates you in a violation of several of the big ten, the equity of which teaches that we are not to defame the name or honor of people who are made in God's image. You may not think highly enough about God not to attack people made in his image, or perhaps you don't think highly enough about human beings and deny that they are made in God's image, but as long as you operate on either or both of these assumptions, you will fail miserably to reach a Christian audience.
And since you don't even know something as easily verifiable as whether or not Dr. White knows Hebrew and Greek, subjects that he speaks and writes on often and has done so for a VERY LONG time, it is the height of absurdity that you would presume to call into question whether he knows latin, something that does not come up as often in relation to his ministry. I hope you understand the point. I am simply showing you that if you can't be trusted on subjects that are easy to verify, then you certainly can't be trusted on something that is harder to verify. You are in no position to pretend there is some reason to doubt his knowledge of Latin.
Second, some of us have seen you in action when it comes to Arabic. So pardon us if we don't believe you know very much at all, outside of course of the stock phrases and mantras that Muslims sprinkle into their conversations as part of the bells and whistles intended to help you feel pious and to announce your piety before others.
As for Dr. White, he has been studying Arabic. In fact, I recall that even you have mentioned that fact in the past. I don't know how far he has progressed in his knowledge of the language, but I am confident, in light of your past track record, that if you can claim to know enough Arabic to put anyone to shame, then James can say with some level of accuracy that he "knows" Arabic. In any event, to my knowledge he would still only present himself as a student of the language and only in that sense, as a learner, would he claim to know the language.
I hope you can reason in a more responsible, level-headed way this time about what I have said. If you want to attack me again, all I can say is - I tried. Do the cause a favor this time around and realize I am just trying to help keep you honest and accurate. That's all.
For Christ's sake,
@anonymous,
You write:
I am just trying to help keep you honest and accurate. That's all.
If that is the case then I certainly appreciate your input.
However, you did proceed with insults and allegations of "envy" etc.
This type of charged language will inevitably lead myself to water you down with a comment to the effect of "calm down" - you must have seen me deal with a few rabble rousers in the past. Good on you for knowing my level headed approach to such provocation.
Kippling said it well:
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you....
...Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!
Sobre dialogue is the way to go, my dear friend. Sobre dialogue.
Sir, for some reason, you calim I am claiming to know Arabic. I would never put that on my FB. Even though I have studied Arabic from a scholar for about a year on a two class/week basis BUT I would never claim to know Arabic as I am still a student. You will never see me claim such on my profile or FB.
For me it is a matter of honesty.
Let's be frank, White does not know Arabic - the fella was incapable of recognising E.W Lane's expertise and for some reason was dependent upon Mr Shamoun's drivel despite all the experts disagreeing with Shamoun's drivel. Now, if you can not even traverse an Arabic dictionary to realise Shamoun is leading you up the garden path then your Arabic is non-existant.
You can make excuses for him - that's fine BUT he should NOT be claiming to know Arabic as it is misleading.
The more honest description would be that of him being a learner rather than one who "knows" Arabic.
Hence he should remove such from his FB. I'm sure you value accuracy? If so, you will ceetainly agree with me...
You also presented more charged accuasations; apparently I'm "tarnishing" someone's image with regards to his Hebrew and Greek?
I have never denied the bloke knows the said languages.
This post was about the comment concerning ARABIC. It's in the title. However, you have comeover and confirmed White knows Hebrew and Greek. OK, that's all very well and good but the post is not about Greek or Hebrew.
Now, I do understand what you are trying to get at - the fact that I wrote I assume he knows Greek. Well, to be fair to you - I will make that a more positive statement or remove it to remove ambiguity.
Before doing so I would like to satet in no way shape or form was I intending to claim he does not know Greek.
I did not mention Hebrew - you mentioned it. You state he knows the Hebrew language. You have had your say. Do you know anything about him and Latin?
I hope you do apologise for such accusation making and I hope you do realise, at this ministry we hold ourselves to accountability and do listen to folk who do want to critique.
That my friend is a sign of sincerity.
I hope you take my critique on board and try to recognise from where I'm coming.
Iron Sharpens iron, as one man sharpens another - Proverbs
@anonymous,
I have just removed my "assuming" the bloke knows Greek and German.
I hope you recognise the level of sincerity we operate from.
I just hope you will stop with these attacks and call fol such as Shamoun.Wood,Fthr Zakaria Botros, Nabeel, Hovind, ChristianPrince,Dakdok,Pastor Joseph,etc to the level of critique you have poured my way.
I'm not afraid of critique. Churchill did state criticism helped to improve him.
I would like to take this opportunity to invite you to the worship of the God who Jesus worshipped
Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another
There was a good bit of hedging in your concessions, but we certainly did make some progress.
My work is done here for now. I hope to see you being more careful in the future in what you say, insinuate or call into question about people w/o good reason to do so.
By the way, just b/c you put a certain title on your posts doesn't mean you can recklessly say whatever you feel like in that post on other subjects and be excused simply b/c of the post title. If you title a post: Peace and Love, but then call people to violence, you can't cry foul if someone points out that you are advocating violence.
Jesus is the way to the Father,
Yahya this is really just being pedantic and silly. I have a friend that has taken several years of Spanish at University, who can only carry on small basic conversations, and has the writing ability equivalent to a child. On his Facebook page it says "knows Spanish". I have a friend who has studied one year of Italian. He can ask people how they are, talk about the weather, describe people in very basic ways. On his Facebook page it says "knows Italian". I have another friend who reads French. She can barely speak it at all, but reads it quite well. She took up the language to be able to read French literature and poetry in the original language. Her Facebook says "knows French". Never once did it occur to me to accuse any of these people of any sort of dishonesty. It's an accepted norm on Facebook to list languages you are currently studying or even languages in which you have very basic abilities. As far as I know his page doesn't say "is fluent in Arabic". I can't believe you folks really waste so much of your time trying to make someone appear dishonest or deceptive when no deception has occurred.
@Really, you do make a good point. I will state, I did make an excuse for James and did not accuse him of being deceptive on this one.
I will state, it is misleading of your friends to write such when they do not know the language. I studied German at school but will NEVER claim to know German.
For James, the CHRISTIANS are accusing him of being dishonest on this one. I'm not.
[Note to the dishonest man who miscontrues, deliberately, in order to detract from his own bouts of deception]
I think he is misleading his fans by writing such on his FB - through his irresponsibility and lack of desire for accuracy.
.
But if accuracy of information is not so important on FB then when is accuracy important?
We can't simply have a different rule for FB and a different rule for other mediums?
I mean, I'm sure folk overplay what they know on their blogger profiles but does that give me free reign to write I know German, Arabic, Hebrew, etc? No, of course not!
Just because others are not accurate does not mean you ahve to follow suit.
The same applies to FB, if others are over-selling themselves should you? The man desiring accuracy would not!
For White it is of even more significance as he is in a field where people genuinely rely on his information/misinformation. A case in point was when the fella was claiming Allah "repents" in the Quran.
We had to correct the bloke - he, to his fans maintained he was correct - despite knowing all the experts disagreed with him. He fed them a link to his pal's website as "evidence" for his claim and avoided telling them all the experts disagree with his claim. Heck, 1MoreMuslim even made a video rebuking him and explaiming the grammar involved
Now, for those unaware, they could have dropped by his FB and thought he genuinely knew the language and sided with his drivel - simply because he wrote he knew Arabic on his FB.
Do you claim to know Taekwondo after a cople of lessons?
We are talking about accuracy, in White's case accuracy is even more inportant as CHRISTIANS do not trust him - thus accuracy should be at the forefront of his mind.
Now, I don't trust him because I've seen his out of dishonesty in the past. In addition he has a load of Christian rabble rousers hanging about with him (Shamoun,Wood, Joseph) - dishonest rabble rousers.
Anyway, my post serves to remind folk he does not know Arabic and does confirm the CHRISTIAN complaints directed at James stating he knows Arabic. If Christians are complaining, then surely you would expect me to investigate it so Muslims are not deceived.
In any case, thank you for brinigng forward a possible excuse for brother James' inaccuracy.
Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another.
if any of you visit loonwatch, there was a segment of how islamophobes rely on the arabic 101 translator. funny it couldn't even translate the word "translate".
Hey Yahya,
I appreciate the way you do things. It is very warm and fair.
I think Roy and Ray can learn from you. You have tried balancing the post, the blogosphere likes open comments and you do not censor. TurretinFan allows for a semblance of free speech but Peter Lumpkins does censor. Ergun Caner censors.
I know this is not an impericaly verifiable statement, I summise th Christians you mention only brought the FB page discrepancy up to get revenge for the Ergun Caner expose by Dr. White.
You are a OK guy, will you blog about the Ergun Caner cover up?
Is it true you are related to cleric on Peace TV?
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