Would Jesus (PBUH) be proud of you for your gratuitous lies against an entire faith?
Monday, 25 July 2011
A Flash From The Past: Nabeel Qureshi Distorts Islamic Teachings
If you guys remembered, earlier this year Yahya Snow came across something peculiar on the net, with the exception of the 'thighing' episode. Who would have known that Nabeel Qureshi, a former member of Acts 17 Apologetics now founder of Creed 2:6, would have the audacity to tell a bold-faced lie to an audience made up entirely of Christians! Astonishing at just what great lengths this man will really go to! Hateful polemics? You guessed right!:
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I looked through some of his "foundational videos" about Islam on creed 2:6 website. It is riddled with theological and jurisprudential inaccuracies. Look through them you will have plenty to attack him on. I dont have the time to go through and prove how Islamically illiterate he is. Maybe Rad mod can find the time to comb through the videos since he clearly has nothing better to do in life.
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I see, so when the Quran says Muhammad must tell believers that he doesnt know what Allah will do with him, yet the hadith compiled centuries later has Muhammad knowing almost everything under the sun, and contradicting the Quran, the hadith supercedes the Quran? WOW!
Salaam Nakdimon,
Can you please show me the verse?
Refuting, sure, here it is:
Or do they say, 'He has forged it'? Say: 'If I have forged it, you have no power to help me against Allah. He knows very well what you are pressing upon; He suffices as a witness between me and you; He is the All-forgiving, the All-compassionate.' Say: 'I am not an innovation among the Messengers, and I know not what shall be done with me or with you. I only follow what is revealed to me; I am only a clear warner.' S. 46:8-9
Also, here is a hadith confirming it:
Narrated 'Um al-'Ala:
An Ansari woman who gave the pledge of allegiance to the Prophet that the Ansar drew lots concerning the dwelling of the Emigrants. 'Uthman bin Maz'un was decided to dwell with them (i.e. Um al-'Ala's family), 'Uthman fell ill and I nursed him till he died, and we covered him with his clothes. Then the Prophet came to us and I (addressing the dead body) said, "O Abu As-Sa'ib, may Allah's Mercy be on you! I bear witness that Allah has honored you." On that the Prophet said, "How do you know that Allah has honored him?" I replied, "I do not know. May my father and my mother be sacrificed for you, O Allah's Apostle! But who else is worthy of it (if not 'Uthman)?" He said, "As to him, by Allah, death has overtaken him, and I hope the best for him. By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me," By Allah, I will never assert the piety of anyone after him. That made me sad, and when I slept I saw in a dream a flowing stream for 'Uthman bin Maz'un. I went to Allah's Apostle and told him of it. He remarked, "That symbolizes his (good) deeds." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 266)
Nabeel was simply referring to these sources. The Hadith that Yahya posted in the video contradicts both. Yet Yahya upholds that hadith as the "Gospel truth" and accuses Nabeel of lying. Strange.
However, the Qur'an does directly indicate the Prophet Muhammad will be in heaven:
*********************************
Al-Quran, Surah Al-Kauther, Chatper 108
سُوۡرَةُ الکَوثَر
بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
إِنَّآ أَعۡطَيۡنَـٰكَ ٱلۡكَوۡثَرَ (١) فَصَلِّ لِرَبِّكَ وَٱنۡحَرۡ (٢) إِنَّ شَانِئَكَ هُوَ ٱلۡأَبۡتَرُ (٣)
Hilali & Khan [Best Translation]
Verily, We have granted you (O Muhammad (SAW)) Al-Kauthar (a river in Paradise); Therefore turn in prayer to your Lord and sacrifice (to Him only For he who hates you (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)), he will be cut off (from every posterity good thing in this world and in the Hereafter).
Abdul Daryabadi:
Verily We have bestowed on thee Kawthar. So pray thou to thy Lord and sacrifice. Truly it is thy traducer who shall be childless. (3)
Pickthal
Lo! We have given thee Abundance; So pray unto thy Lord, and sacrifice. Lo! it is thy insulter (and not thou) who is without posterity.
Abdullah Yusuf Ali
To thee have We granted the Fount (Of Abundance). (1) Therefore to thy Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice. (2) For he who hateth thee He will be cut off (from Future Hope). (3)
Shaheeh International
Indeed, We have granted you, [O Muhammad], al-Kawthar. So pray to your Lord and sacrifice [to Him alone]. Indeed, your enemy is the one cut off.
Qaribullah & Darwish
Indeed, We have given you (Prophet Muhammad) the abundance (Al Kawthar: river, its pool and springs). So pray to your Lord and sacrifice. Surely, he who hates you, he is the most severed.
**********************************
Al-Kauther is a river in paradise which will run right through the Prophet Muhammad's home. That hadith you just quoted will be looked at but does not directly indicate the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was clueless about his final destination.
Given that the Quran says believers will be in Paradise, and Prophet Muhammad(saw) was the foremost of the believers, it logically follows that the Prophet Muhammad (saw) will be in Paradise.
BTW NakdiMoRon, you remember me?
RefutingActs17,
That verse was revealed before surah 46. Are you telling me that Allah first promises Muhammad paradise in surah 108 and then tells his prophet in surah 46 that surah 108 wasnt true by commanding him to tell everybody that he isnt sure of his salvation afterall?
Anonymous aka Ibn Shaytan,
The Quran doesnt guarrantee believers Jannah at all. thats why it is forbidden for Muslims to proclaim that either they or other people will definitely go to Paradise. Only "martyrs" (Islamic style) are guarranteed eternal erections! (LOL)
NakdimoRon: The Quran doesnt guarrantee believers Jannah at all. thats why it is forbidden for Muslims to proclaim that either they or other people will definitely go to Paradise. Only "martyrs" (Islamic style) are guarranteed eternal erections! (LOL)
The Quran actually does say that believers will be admitted to Paradise which is a promise "binding upon Allah" (9:111, 25:15-16, 18:30-31, 23:1-11 and many more!).
Regarding the fate of individual Muslims, that's a different thing. I am a believer now but I do not know whether I will be a disbeliever at the time of my death. But if I die as a believer, then as per God's promise, I will surely be admitted to Jannah. It is in this sense that us Muslims say that we do not know for sure whether we will be in Paradise or Hellfire.
Thus, my argument still holds. Allah says in the Quran that believers will be admitted to Jannah. Muhammad(saw) lived and died as a believer. Hence, Muhammad(saw) will be admitted to Jannah.
Nakdimon is the same dude who gets pwnd in answeringchristianity room in pal talk. Just dont feed him and he will run away OR do what we do in AC room and pwn him. WATCH HIM GET PWND ON YOU TUBE
Oh, goodness. I have watched Nak's videos and his interactions in the AC room. Those poor souls don't know what to do when Nak is around. Usually there only hope is to mute his mic and kick him out of the room. The AC room is full of Swowhite types who are too weak to defend their god and prophet. Keep up the good work, Nak.
Anonymous aka Ibn Shaytan wrote:
The Quran actually does say that believers will be admitted to Paradise which is a promise "binding upon Allah" (9:111, 25:15-16, 18:30-31, 23:1-11 and many more!).
Regarding the fate of individual Muslims, that's a different thing. I am a believer now but I do not know whether I will be a disbeliever at the time of my death. But if I die as a believer, then as per God's promise, I will surely be admitted to Jannah. It is in this sense that us Muslims say that we do not know for sure whether we will be in Paradise or Hellfire.
Thus, my argument still holds. Allah says in the Quran that believers will be admitted to Jannah. Muhammad(saw) lived and died as a believer. Hence, Muhammad(saw) will be admitted to Jannah.
No, your argument falls flat on its face because you cannot get the simple point of the hadith. So I’ll take the time to explain. The Hadith on Muhammad’s (saw nothing) proclaiming that he doesn’t know if Uthmann made it into Jannah says that you cannot know if someone made it into Jannah no matter how pious he seemed. Apparently Uthmann was one of the most pious Muslims, thus people thought that he certainly would have made it to Jannah. However, Muhammad (saw nothing) said you just don’t know since you cant know in what state someone died. (Maybe Allah “made it appear” as if the guy was pious when he was actually not!) Hence, you cant say anyone made it into Jannah, INCLUDING YOUR PROFIT! Although you may HOPE he died a believer, fact of the matter is that you don’t know in which state he died! Here also, again, maybe Allah made it appear Mo (saw nothing) was pious when he was not.
As for your fable that every believer is guaranteed a place in Jannah by default on the basis that he is a believer when he dies is also nonsense. The only verse that has a promise “binding upon Allah” is the verse that talks about slaying and being slain for Allah’s cause, i.e. martyrdom Islamic style! The rest depends on many factors: scales, good deeds vs bad deeds, Allah’s decree, etc. Given all this there is no guarantee that you will make it into Jannah even if you die as a believer.
Lastly, the Quran guarantees you will enter hell and according to Surah 19:68-72 ONLY the godfearing will be taken out. Question: How do you know you were godfearing enough upon death? YOU DON’T! Hence you have no guarantee that you will enter Paradise, sonny-boy. Allah made it appear to you perhaps?
M.R. wrote: Nakdimon is the same dude who gets pwnd in answeringchristianity room in pal talk. Just dont feed him and he will run away OR do what we do in AC room and pwn him. WATCH HIM GET PWND ON YOU TUBE
Dude, the only way you guys “answer Christianity” in that room is by dotting and bouncing Christians. Those guys in there are nothing but a bunch of cowards. If you claim something about Islam, you are dotted and demanded to provide the proof, which is understandable. But when they claim things about Christianity they feel like they don’t have to provide any proof. If they would allow equal time on the mic without the dotting and bouncing, they would get creamed all day. And they know it! That’s why they can’t afford giving us equal time.
Oh yea, DO watch the youtube videos and see who gets PWND
Anonymous wrote: Oh, goodness. I have watched Nak's videos and his interactions in the AC room. Those poor souls don't know what to do when Nak is around. Usually there only hope is to mute his mic and kick him out of the room. The AC room is full of Swowhite types who are too weak to defend their god and prophet. Keep up the good work, Nak.
Welcome to my world. That’s how things go in the AC room. They dot and bounce. You have no idea how many videos I have where I got bounced and just left the room when dotted that I haven’t put online. I have been banned numerous times only to be let back in because we would boycott that room and they would be left fighting amongst themselves whenever Christians aren’t around. LOL. Those guys are pathetic.
I posted my response to Nakdimoron in the wrong thread. Let me post it here again.
Nakdimoron:...you cant know in what state someone died. Hence, you cant say anyone made it into Jannah, INCLUDING YOUR PROFIT! Although you may HOPE he died a believer, fact of the matter is that you don’t know in which state he died!
Your main point is, we don't know the state in which Muhammad(saw) died. The fact is Allah describes Muhammad(saw) as the foremost of those who believe (6:14, 6:163, 39:11-12). Given that whatever Allah says embodies foreknowledge, it necessarily follows Muhammad(saw) both lived and died as a believer. This is reinforced by the fact that if Muhammad(saw) at any point had lied about Allah, he would have dropped dead instantly (69:45-46).
NakdiMoron: As for your fable that every believer is guaranteed a place in Jannah by default on the basis that he is a believer when he dies is also nonsense. The only verse that has a promise “binding upon Allah” is the verse that talks about slaying and being slain for Allah’s cause, i.e. martyrdom Islamic style!
Wrong. 25:15-16 guarantees Jannah to non-martyrs.
NakdimoRon: The rest depends on many factors: scales, good deeds vs bad deeds, Allah’s decree, etc. Given all this there is no guarantee that you will make it into Jannah even if you die as a believer.
That's an illogical argument since if I die as a believer, it necessarily follows that I have satisfied "many factors: scales, good deeds vs bad deeds, etc".
Nakdimoron: Lastly, the Quran guarantees you will enter hell and according to Surah 19:68-72 ONLY the godfearing will be taken out. Question: How do you know you were godfearing enough upon death? YOU DON’T! Hence you have no guarantee that you will enter Paradise, sonny-boy. Allah made it appear to you perhaps?
Actually, 19:71-72 refers to the Sirat over hellfire that everyone will cross. Only the believers will make it out safely, with those with more Iman crossing it faster than those with less. Anyway, even if your supposition is true, it still follows that ultimately all believers will end up in Paradise, just as Allah promised. Moreover, there is a hadith which says that as long as a person has faith in his heart "equal to the weight of a barley grain", he will ultimately enter Paradise.
All things considered, believers will ultimately end up in Paradise. My argument still stands.
Come one NakdimoRon! I thought that after all this time you'd be able to come up with something better. Instead, you are as big a dumbass as ever!
Anonymous aka Ibn Shaytan writes: Your main point is, we don't know the state in which Muhammad(saw) died. The fact is Allah describes Muhammad(saw) as the foremost of those who believe (6:14, 6:163, 39:11-12). Given that whatever Allah says embodies foreknowledge, it necessarily follows Muhammad(saw) both lived and died as a believer. This is reinforced by the fact that if Muhammad(saw) at any point had lied about Allah, he would have dropped dead instantly (69:45-46).
Muhammad being the foremost of the believers says nothing about his eternal destination. Since all believers will go to hell (we will get to this text later) says nothing about Mo making it into paradise and nothing about his state of belief when he died. Which brings us to the text you so haply referred to thinking that it actually helps your case:
And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings, We would certainly have seized him by the right hand, THEN WE WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE CUT OFF HIS AORTA. (69:44-46)
This verse doesn’t mean that he would drop dead instantly, stop lying! So we see here that Allah promises to cut off Muhammad’s (saw nothing) aorta/main artery/jugular vein if he would invent things about Allah. Lo and behold what Muhammad (saw nothing) says on his death bed according to your “most authentic” sources of his sayings:
Narrated Ibn Abbas: 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to let Ibn Abbas sit beside him, so 'AbdurRahman bin 'Auf said to 'Umar, "We have sons similar to him." 'Umar replied, "(I respect him) because of his status that you know." … Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I STILL FEEL THE PAIN CAUSED BY THE FOOD I ATE AT KHAIBAR, AND AT THIS TIME, I FEEL AS IF MY AORTA IS BEING CUT FROM THAT POISON." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 713)
Narrated AbuSalamah: Muhammad ibn Amr said on the authority of AbuSalamah, and he did not mention the name of AbuHurayrah: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to accept presents but not alms (sadaqah). This version adds: So a Jewess presented him at Khaybar with a roasted sheep which she had poisoned. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) ate of it and the people also ate. … He then said about the pain of which he died: I CONTINUED TO FEEL PAIN FROM THE MORSEL WHICH I HAD EATEN AT KHAYBAR. THIS IS THE TIME WHEN IT HAS CUT OFF MY AORTA. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 39, Number 4498)
Note that this is not only a sahih hadith but on top of that it’s a mutawatir hadith as well. Now mind the near impossibility here. Muhammad (saw nothing) tried to pin the suffering and pain of his aorta being cut off to the poison he consumed three years before this event. A pain so severe it made him delusional:
When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, THE PROPHET SAID: "COME NEAR LET ME WRITE FOR YOU A WRITING AFTER WHICH YOU WILL NEVER GO ASTRAY." ... (Sahih al Bukhari Volume 9 hadith number 468)
So the unlettered prophet wants to write something for the people and on top of that he wanted to do so to prevent people to go astray while he had been delivering guidance, the Quran, for 23 years. Was he delusional or what?
But I think Muhammad (saw nothing) had a good clue that it wasn’t the poison that killed him. Allah promises to cut off Mo’s (saw nothing) main artery and so it happened. From this information it seems that Mo (saw nothing) died anything but a true believer. So sorry sonny-boy. None of your sources say he died a believer. In fact, based on the above information he met his promised demise and we can all read what led to it in the Quran, specifically 69:44-46. So since your prophet died the exact way Allah promised in the Quran if he would invent stuff, how are you to tell how much Muhammad (saw nothing) invented of the Quran you’re reading today?
Wrong. 25:15-16 guarantees Jannah to non-martyrs.
No It doesn’t. Get with the program! All it says is that Paradise is for the “godfearing”. But the question is, who are godfearing enough? YOU DON’T KNOW! Hence you can’t know if your prophet is in Paradise.
That's an illogical argument since if I die as a believer, it necessarily follows that I have satisfied "many factors: scales, good deeds vs bad deeds, etc".
Actually, 19:71-72 refers to the Sirat over hellfire that everyone will cross. Only the believers will make it out safely, with those with more Iman crossing it faster than those with less. Anyway, even if your supposition is true, it still follows that ultimately all believers will end up in Paradise, just as Allah promised. Moreover, there is a hadith which says that as long as a person has faith in his heart "equal to the weight of a barley grain", he will ultimately enter Paradise.
NO and NO. dying as a believer says nothing about your good deeds and bad deeds, the scales, Allah’s decree, etc. And 19:71-72 doesn’t say that you will “cross over” hellfire. Let’s see what it does say:
Not one of you there is, but he shall GO DOWN TO IT; that for thy Lord is a thing decreed, determined. Then We shall deliver those that were godfearing; and the evildoers We shall LEAVE THERE, hobbling on their knees.
This clearly says that you are guaranteed you will GO DOWN TO HELL, not just cross over. AND it goes on to say that Allah will deliver the godfearing but those that are evildoers WILL BE LEFT THERE. This can only mean that the godfearing and the evildoers are put in hell together, but only the godfearing will be taken out. Question: How do you know that you were godfearing enough?
All things considered, believers will ultimately end up in Paradise. My argument still stands.
Come one NakdimoRon! I thought that after all this time you'd be able to come up with something better. Instead, you are as big a dumbass as ever!
LOL. Yeah and while you are calling me a dumbass you’re getting pummeled with your own sources. It would have been funny if it weren’t so sad.
My response is in two parts.
Here we go again!
NakdiMoron: Muhammad being the foremost of the believers says nothing about his eternal destination.
Yes it does considering that in the Quran it is Allah Himself who describes the Prophet(saw) as the foremost of the believers. As I said, Allah's statements are grounded in foreknowledge. You conveniently skipped this part even though this is the crucial premise of my argument.
Regarding 69:44-46, you wrote: "This verse doesn’t mean that he would drop dead instantly, stop lying! So we see here that Allah promises to cut off Muhammad’s aorta/main artery/jugular vein if he would invent things about Allah. Lo and behold what Muhammad says on his death bed according to your “most authentic” sources of his sayings blah blah blah"
I anticipated that you would bring up those hadith. Lets first consider 69: 44-46. You say that it does not mean that Muhammad(saw) would drop dead if he lied.So am I to believe that God exacted revenge upon Muhammad(saw) well after the latter established Islam? Also, as Muhammad Asad explains, to seize by the right hand denotes the cutting off of all ability since the right hand symbolizes power. Given that verse 45 says that lying would result in the stripping of the Messenger's power AND his life (you conveniently ignored the part about seizing by the right hand), whereas the Messenger successfully established Islam, even gaining victory over God's very own chosen people-the Jews, the claim that the verse does not denote instant death is rendered highly implausible.
The main point is 64:45 says that Allah will strip off the power of the Messenger and then take his life. Given that the Messenger's power was never stripped off (otherwise Islam would have not prevailed), it follows that the Messenger never lied.
So what about the hadith you posted? Well, what about them? All they suggest is that the Prophet(saw) likened his pain to that of an aorta being severed, not that his aorta was actually severed which would have resulted in instant death. Given that for it to have been a punishment by Allah, the Messenger would first be "seized by the right hand" i.e. stripped of all power, whereas Muhammad(saw) was never stripped of power, it follows that the hadith does not confirm what you are implying.
NakdiMoron: So the unlettered prophet wants to write something for the people and on top of that he wanted to do so to prevent people to go astray while he had been delivering guidance, the Quran, for 23 years. Was he delusional or what?
Red herring. We are discussing salvation, not the literacy of Muhammad(saw). You fool!
Regarding 25:15-16, you wrote: "No It doesn’t. Get with the program! All it says is that Paradise is for the “godfearing”. But the question is, who are godfearing enough? YOU DON’T KNOW! Hence you can’t know if your prophet is in Paradise. "
Who are the God fearing? Are you really that stupid? Fearing Allah is a requirement of belief (57:28). Given that the Prophet(saw) is described as the foremost of the believers, and fearing Allah is an integral part of belief, it follows that the Prophet(saw) was the foremost in fearing Allah. The logical implication of this is that as one who feared Allah the most, the Prophet(saw) could never have lied about His Creator. As such, your insinuation that the Prophet(saw) was killed by Allah is completely against the logic of the Quran.
NakdimoRon: NO and NO. dying as a believer says nothing about your good deeds and bad deeds, the scales, Allah’s decree, etc. And 19:71-72 doesn’t say that you will “cross over” hellfire. Let’s see what it does say:
Simply asserting "NO" does not make your argument logical, you dumbass. I'll break it down for you. To be admitted to Paradise means one has satisfied, as you put it, "good deeds and bad deeds, the scales, Allah’s decree, etc". Given that only believers will be admitted to Paradise, it logically follows that they have satisfied, "good deeds and bad deeds, the scales, Allah’s decree, etc"
Regarding 19:71-72, you completely ignored my claim that irrespective of what happens to the believers initially, they will ULTIMATELY end up in Paradise. Notice the emphasis on ultimately. Additionally, you also skipped the reference to a hadith in which all that it takes to ultimately end up in Paradise is faith equal to the weight of a barley grain.
NakdimoRon: LOL. Yeah and while you are calling me a dumbass you’re getting pummeled with your own sources. It would have been funny if it weren’t so sad.
You're still a dumbass.
In conclusion, it remains to proved that Muhammad(saw)'s salvation is uncertain. More importantly, Nakdimoron is a dumbass.
Anonymous aka Ibn Shaytan wrote: Yes it does considering that in the Quran it is Allah Himself who describes the Prophet(saw) as the foremost of the believers. As I said, Allah's statements are grounded in foreknowledge. You conveniently skipped this part even though this is the crucial premise of my argument.
Let me spell it out for you. Just because Allah as one point in time says Muhammad (saw nothing) is the foremost of the believers says nothing. It doesn’t say Muhammad (saw nothing) will remain the foremost of the believers for the rest of his life or even in the hereafter. So now that that premise of your argument has been dealt with let’s get down to the nitty gritty.
Ibn Shaytan wrote: I anticipated that you would bring up those hadith. Lets first consider 69: 44-46. You say that it does not mean that Muhammad(saw) would drop dead if he lied.So am I to believe that God exacted revenge upon Muhammad(saw) well after the latter established Islam? Also, as Muhammad Asad explains, to seize by the right hand denotes the cutting off of all ability since the right hand symbolizes power. Given that verse 45 says that lying would result in the stripping of the Messenger's power AND his life (you conveniently ignored the part about seizing by the right hand), whereas the Messenger successfully established Islam, even gaining victory over God's very own chosen people-the Jews, the claim that the verse does not denote instant death is rendered highly implausible.
Yadda yadda, still saying nada. Instead of dealing with the hadith the baboon starts rambling and speculating. All that and still no demonstration of how those words communicate an immediate death of his profit. Muhammad Asad can say whatever he wants. Unless he quotes a hadith to support his claims it’s nothing more than an opinion. BTW, Muhammad (saw nothing) never gained a victory over the Jews and even if he did, it was because God’s judgment over the Jews. It says nothing about the people God uses to chastise his people. Just like it didn’t mean that the Babylonians or Assyrians were God’s new chosen people when they gained victories over Israel. It just shows that God generally even uses godless people to chastise Israel for its sins. So sorry lil fella. Try dealing with the sources instead of babbling your way around them.
Ibn Shaytan goes on: The main point is 64:45 says that Allah will strip off the power of the Messenger and then take his life. Given that the Messenger's power was never stripped off (otherwise Islam would have not prevailed), it follows that the Messenger never lied.
Again, you presuppose that seizing him by the right hand means stripping him of his power. By the way, you yourself don’t seem to know what interpretation you want to go by since stripping him of his power and then killing him can NEVER constitute an immediate death as you initially claimed was the meaning of the verse. So make up your “mind”, pea-brain. Even if the “right hand” stands for someone’s power, taking him by the right hand and killing him can easily mean that Muhammad (saw nothing) would be powerless against Allah’s assault. Try again!
Ibn Shaytan continues his verbal diarrhea: So what about the hadith you posted? Well, what about them? All they suggest is that the Prophet(saw) likened his pain to that of an aorta being severed, not that his aorta was actually severed which would have resulted in instant death. Given that for it to have been a punishment by Allah, the Messenger would first be "seized by the right hand" i.e. stripped of all power, whereas Muhammad(saw) was never stripped of power, it follows that the hadith does not confirm what you are implying.
LOL. Ok let me get this straight. Just because Mo (saw nothing) felt as if his aorta was being severed doesn’t mean it actually was severed? But would it indicate that it was about to be severed, which ultimately lead to his death, but that Allah wanted him to die a slow death and caused him to first wallow in sorrow and pain for lying about Allah? Amazing: Allah promises to kill him in a specific way and of all the ways for Muhammad to go, he dies describing the exact way Allah promised to kill him and you sit here and go “that means nothing”. LOL. Stop assuming that seizing by the right hand means stripping of power. Proof your nonsense. Allah says this would happen if Muhammad (saw nothing) would lie, Muhammad (saw nothing) confirms it on his death bed. Get over it. Allah killed Mo.
Ibn Shaytan tries to play smart: Red herring. We are discussing salvation, not the literacy of Muhammad(saw). You fool!
That’s why my point isn’t his literacy or his revelation, but his delusional state before his death cause by the despair and agony of his aorta being destroyed by Allah. Which ties in directly with your claim that Muhammad (saw nothing) died a believer. Hogwash! He died an awful death predicted by your god as a result of lying about his Illah.
Ibn Shaytan goes on: Who are the God fearing? Are you really that stupid? Fearing Allah is a requirement of belief (57:28). Given that the Prophet(saw) is described as the foremost of the believers, and fearing Allah is an integral part of belief, it follows that the Prophet(saw) was the foremost in fearing Allah. The logical implication of this is that as one who feared Allah the most, the Prophet(saw) could never have lied about His Creator. As such, your insinuation that the Prophet(saw) was killed by Allah is completely against the logic of the Quran.
Again, quit fibbin about logical implications based on the neglecting of your sources. Your prophet died exactly how Allah promised if he lied about him. Hence all your nonsense goes out of the window. And btw, your prophet said that Allah decides who makes it to paradise beforehand. So you can try all you want, if Allah decreed that you wont make it, you wont make it:
Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6406: Abu al-Aswad reported that 'Imran b Husain asked him: ... Two men of the tribe of Muzaina came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger, what is your opinion that the people do in the world and strive for, is it something decreed for them, something preordained for them, and will their fate in the Hereafter be determined by the fact that their Prophets brought them teachings which they did not act upon, and thus they became deserving of punishment? Thereupon, he said: OF COURSE, IT HAPPENS AS IT IS DECREED BY DESTINY AND PREORDAINED FOR THEM, and this view is confirmed by this verse of the Book of Allah, the Exalted and Glorious: "Consider the soul and Him Who made it perfect, then breathed into it its sin and its piety" (xci. 8).
This hadith clearly says that the fate of people in the hereafter isn’t decided on their own actions, but what Allah decided about them before they were even born. Here is another hadith that confirms what I just said:
Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6393: 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud reported: … I have heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: When forty nights pass after the semen gets into the womb, Allah sends the angel and gives him the shape. Then he creates his sense of hearing, sense of sight, his skin, his flesh, his bones, and then says: My Lord, would he be male or female? And your Lord decides as He desires and the angel then puts down that also and then says: My Lord, what about his age? And your Lord decides as He likes it and the angel puts it down. Then he says: My Lord, what about his livelihood? And THEN THE LORD DECIDES AS HE LIKES and the angel writes it down, and then the angel gets out with his scroll of destiny in his hand and nothing is added to it and nothing is subtracted from it.
So Allah decides, not you or your piety. Allah decides AS HE LIKES and the angel writes it down. What does the angel write down?
See next >>
Here is a hadith that answers that question:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 77, Number 593: Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle, the truthful and truly-inspired, said, "Each one of you collected in the womb of his mother for forty days, and then turns into a clot for an equal period (of forty days) and turns into a piece of flesh for a similar period (of forty days) and THEN ALLAH SENDS AN ANGEL AND ORDERS HIM TO WRITE FOUR THINGS, I.E., HIS PROVISION, HIS AGE, AND WHETHER HE WILL BE OF THE WRETCHED OR THE BLESSED (in the Hereafter). Then the soul is breathed into him. And by Allah, a person among you (or a man) may do deeds of the people of the Fire till there is only a cubit or an ARM-BREADTH DISTANCE BETWEEN HIM AND THE FIRE, but then that writing (which Allah has ordered the angel to write) precedes, and he does the deeds of the people of Paradise and enters it; and a man may do the deeds of the people of Paradise till there is only A CUBIT OR TWO BETWEEN HIM AND PARADISE, and then that writing precedes and he does the deeds of the people of the Fire and enters it."
There you go! Allah decides if you are to make it or not. So the fact that your profit lied about Allah and died the way Allah warned him if he would lie about Allah speaks volumes and whatever his conduct has been before that, it doesn’t matter. Allah’s writing, decided by WHAT HE LIKES, not based upon Allah’s foreknowledge about people’s actions, is what makes people enter Paradise. Even if someone seems pious to the utmost, Allah can still deny him access to Jannah.
Ibn Shaytan says: Simply asserting "NO" does not make your argument logical, you dumbass. I'll break it down for you. To be admitted to Paradise means one has satisfied, as you put it, "good deeds and bad deeds, the scales, Allah’s decree, etc". Given that only believers will be admitted to Paradise, it logically follows that they have satisfied, "good deeds and bad deeds, the scales, Allah’s decree, etc"
I’m not simply asserting “NO”, I’m the only one providing ahadith for my claims. It is YOU who fails to a) deal with the sources I quote and b) spend almost all your effort talking around those sources instead of grabbing the bull by the horns. The level of tap-dancing you display would make Fred Astair envious.
Ibn Shaitan goes: Regarding 19:71-72, you completely ignored my claim that irrespective of what happens to the believers initially, they will ULTIMATELY end up in Paradise. Notice the emphasis on ultimately. Additionally, you also skipped the reference to a hadith in which all that it takes to ultimately end up in Paradise is faith equal to the weight of a barley grain.
If there was an ounce of truth in that statement of “faith equal to the weight of a barley grain” it would make no sense for Muhammad (saw nothing) to claim upon the death of an extremely pious Muslim that he may not have made it to Jannah. And even if you want to take that claim about the barley grain seriously, that is still out of your hands since Allah decides if you will die a believer. You can try all you want, you have no saying in it. Hence, given the circumstances under which your profit died, the evidence points out that he didn’t make it into paradise. Especially considering the fact that you don’t know what Allah send the angel to write concerning him when he was in his mother’s womb, as it happens according to above hadith.
PWND once more. Try again! To think your profit said only Islamic women are dimwits! Sheesh... are you sure ur a dude?
//PWND once more. Try again! To think your profit said only Islamic women are dimwits! Sheesh... are you sure ur a dude//
what? and its funny that you ran away from mrislamanswersback.
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/deficiency_of_woman_s_mind_according_to_the_bible
Ali,
Are you sure you aren’t Shadid Lewis? He should change his alias on youtube to MrIslamAnswersNothing. To even claim that I ran from him on Allah’s blunder about the Trinity in the Quran means you haven’t followed the exchange between me and him, since he totally admitted that Allah made the blunder and then tried to do damage control by contradicting himself over and over again. I made 4 series of rebuttals to him he only attempted to respond to 2. The rest of the series I catch him lying about sources, misapplying sources that say the exact opposite of what he claims they say, misquoting sources, and contradicting himself over and over again. When he replies to those videos I’ll bother to give him the time of day.
Also, I have a couple of recordings from Paltalk where I go into the AC room to confront Shadid about his videos and his misuse of his sources and I get bounced before I can utter a word about it whenever Shadid is in the room as an admin. So who is running from whom? You guys really need some serious deprogramming. Everything is upside down with you guys.
And yes, your profit said women are dimwits. No matter how many links you want to put up about the so-called deficiency of women’s mind in the Bible. Your religion teaches women are stupid and get to get abused in Jannah for eternity by men. While you’re here please do tell us what the reward is for women in Jannah? Or is their only privilege that they will be one of the 72 (w)hoories?
Read all my arguments before responding.
Nakdimoron: Just because Allah as one point in time says Muhammad (saw nothing) is the foremost of the believers says nothing. It doesn’t say Muhammad (saw nothing) will remain the foremost of the believers for the rest of his life or even in the hereafter.
Allah is All-Knowing. Given that He is All-Knowing, whatever He says or does NECESSARILY embodies foreknowledge. Hence, His description of Muhammad (saw) as the foremost of believers is based on foreknowledge.
Nakdimoron: Again, you presuppose that seizing him by the right hand means stripping him of his power.
I did not presuppose that “seizing by the right hand” means the deprivation of power. That is how Muhammad Asad explained the phrase in his commentary on the Quran. I have presented scholarly evidence whereas you have presented none. As such, “you can say whatever you want. Unless you quote a scholarly opinion to the contrary in support of your claim, it is nothing more than your opinion”.
Nakdimoron: By the way, you yourself don’t seem to know what interpretation you want to go by since stripping him of his power and then killing him can NEVER constitute an immediate death as you initially claimed was the meaning of the verse. So make up your “mind”, pea-brain. Even if the “right hand” stands for someone’s power, taking him by the right hand and killing him can easily mean that Muhammad (saw nothing) would be powerless against Allah’s assault. Try again!
Irrespective of whether the death would be immediate or gradual, the fact remains that Allah in His foreknowledge declared Muhammad (saw) as the foremost of the believers which necessarily establishes his ultimate destination in Paradise. As for your claim that the verse 45 could mean that Muhammad (saw) would be powerless against Allah’s assault, even if I were to grant it, it still does not explain why when punishing the people of Lot, Pharaoh, Ad and Thamud, Noah, etc; Allah destroyed them swiftly whereas He did not punish Muhammad (saw), who committed a much bigger crime than a mere disbeliever (assuming he lied), long after the latter had successfully established Islam. BTW you do realize that verse 45 applies only to those Messengers who went astray after Allah showed them the truth? Are you ready to admit that Muhammad (saw) was initially chosen by God but later said an untruth about Him for which he was punished (assuming he lied)?
Nadkimoron: LOL. Ok let me get this straight. Just because Mo (saw nothing) felt as if his aorta was being severed doesn’t mean it actually was severed? But would it indicate that it was about to be severed, which ultimately lead to his death, but that Allah wanted him to die a slow death and caused him to first wallow in sorrow and pain for lying about Allah?
If someone has a splitting headache, does that mean his head has actually been split or that it is being split slowly? Or how about when an excited person says that his heart is about to burst open, does that mean his heart is actually going to explode? In a similar vein, the Prophet (saw) merely described his pain as that of an aorta being severed, not that it was actually being severed-a point reinforced by the fact that God in His foreknowledge knew Muhammad (saw) would never lie.
Nakdimoron: Again, quit fibbin about logical implications based on the neglecting of your sources. Your prophet died exactly how Allah promised if he lied about him.
First, you claimed that we don’t know who the God-fearing are. After I showed you that fearing God is a requirement of belief, and as the foremost of the believers, Muhammad embodied this requirement to its fullest extent which logically implies that he would never lie; you run away and hide behind a hadith without seeing how it connects to the bigger picture.
Nakdimoron: Allah decides who makes it to paradise beforehand. So you can try all you want, if Allah decreed that you wont make it, you wont make it……Allah decides if you are to make it or not…Allah’s writing, decided by WHAT HE LIKES, not based upon Allah’s foreknowledge about people’s actions, is what makes people enter Paradise.
But if I do make it to Paradise, and only believers are admitted to Paradise, it follows that I was predestined to live and die as a believer. In the light of predestination, if Allah describes Muhammad (saw) as the foremost of those who believe, it is necessary that Muhammad (saw) is the foremost believer only because God predestined that he would be as such. God would not call somebody a believer if He has predestined Him for Hell Fire since such a person has no potential to believe. Even you admit this, “Even if someone seems pious to the utmost, Allah can still deny him access to Jannah.”
With predestination, outward acts of piety do not matter since they don’t add to or take way from faith. Because God is the one who specifies ultimate destination, He knows whether a particular individual is a believer or not. As such, if God has predestined a person to end up in Hell then God regards such a person as a disbeliever. Given that God regards Muhammad as the foremost believer, it logically follows that God has predestined Muhammad to be in Paradise. Thus, my argument stands.
This is the first part of my rebuttal:
Nakdimoron: Just because Allah as one point in time says Muhammad (saw nothing) is the foremost of the believers says nothing. It doesn’t say Muhammad (saw nothing) will remain the foremost of the believers for the rest of his life or even in the hereafter.
Allah is All-Knowing. Given that He is All-Knowing, whatever He says or does NECESSARILY embodies foreknowledge. Hence, His description of Muhammad (saw) as the foremost of believers is based on foreknowledge.
Nakdimoron: Again, you presuppose that seizing him by the right hand means stripping him of his power.
I did not presuppose that “seizing by the right hand” means the deprivation of power. That is how Muhammad Asad explained the phrase in his commentary on the Quran. I have presented scholarly evidence whereas you have presented none. As such, “you can say whatever you want. Unless you quote a scholarly opinion to the contrary in support of your claim, it is nothing more than your opinion”.
Nakdimoron: By the way, you yourself don’t seem to know what interpretation you want to go by since stripping him of his power and then killing him can NEVER constitute an immediate death as you initially claimed was the meaning of the verse. So make up your “mind”, pea-brain. Even if the “right hand” stands for someone’s power, taking him by the right hand and killing him can easily mean that Muhammad (saw nothing) would be powerless against Allah’s assault. Try again!
Irrespective of whether the death would be immediate or gradual, the fact remains that Allah in His foreknowledge declared Muhammad (saw) as the foremost of the believers which necessarily establishes his ultimate destination in Paradise. As for your claim that the verse 45 could mean that Muhammad (saw) would be powerless against Allah’s assault, even if I were to grant it, it still does not explain why when punishing the people of Lot, Pharaoh, Ad and Thamud, Noah, etc; Allah destroyed them swiftly whereas He did not punish Muhammad (saw), who committed a much bigger crime than a mere disbeliever (assuming he lied), long after the latter had successfully established Islam. BTW you do realize that verse 45 applies only to those Messengers who went astray after Allah showed them the truth? Are you ready to admit that Muhammad (saw) was initially chosen by God but later said an untruth about Him for which he was punished (assuming he lied)?
Yahya, I actually posted a two part response to Nakdimoron. Last time I checked, both the responses went through. Now, however, I only see the second part. Can you check what's going on?
//And yes, your profit said women are dimwits. No matter how many links you want to put up about the so-called deficiency of women’s mind in the Bible. Your religion teaches women are stupid and get to get abused in Jannah for eternity by men. While you’re here please do tell us what the reward is for women in Jannah? Or is their only privilege that they will be one of the 72 (w)hoories?//
never heard of it. and no women of this world will no be one the the houris. those women btw are at a different level. also i suggest you retake biology or any science course. men= attracted to women. women= not so much attracted to men (i.e they don't really care that much). understand?
i view shadid's profile frequently. every video i've seen he's absolutely DESTROYED you. actually i think i heard you whimper a cry here and there.
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