tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post1584840119070265915..comments2023-11-09T05:50:27.936-08:00Comments on The Facts About Islam: Christian Bigots Copying Robert Spencer's DistortionsYahya Snowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-30749495178186792502011-05-30T21:51:13.778-07:002011-05-30T21:51:13.778-07:00Hello Ali:
REGARDING DIVORCE
Jesus in MATT 19:9 ...Hello Ali:<br /><br />REGARDING DIVORCE<br /><br />Jesus in MATT 19:9 says:<br /><br />"And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity/infidelity, and marries another, commits adultery."<br /><br />THAT IS THE EXCEPTION<br /><br />The Greek word porneia, does not automatically mean adultery.If Matthew had wanted to say that there is an exception for adultery, he would have used the word adultery (mocheuo).<br /><br />So DIVORCE is allowed for something LESS than outright ADULTERY.<br /><br />WHAT IS ADULTERY?<br /><br />Jesus said in MATT 5:28(in the SAME GOSPEL OF MATT):<br /><br />"But I say, ANYONE(THAT WOULD BE BACHELORS AND MARRIED MEN) who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed <b>adultery with her in his heart.</b><br /><br />So if THAT was ADULTERY even that was cause for divorce.SHE,the WIFE,could also divorce her husband for infidelity and viceversa.<br /><br />I say it applies to the wife because Jesus said:"Do to others as you would have done to you" and so his ideas were to apply to both men and women,<b>both would have the right to put into practice his ideas</b>,his teachings.<br /><br />I believe Jesus used these metaphors to leave it to us to decide what would be just cause for divorce,to allow all to act according to their conscience and for their best state of mind.minoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08030653596590889158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-50202544766949817262011-05-30T21:36:14.402-07:002011-05-30T21:36:14.402-07:00Hello Ali:
You cited:
"Ephesians 5:24- Now ...Hello Ali:<br /><br />You cited:<br /><br />"Ephesians 5:24- Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. <br /><br />Ephesians 5:22-Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. <br /><br />And lets look at some commentary by John Wesley, one of the greatest Christian scholars to ever live on this verse: <br /><br />In the following directions concerning relative duties, the inferiors are all along placed before the superiors, because the general proposition is concerning submission; and inferiors ought to do their duty, whatever their superiors do. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands - Unless where God forbids. Otherwise, in all indifferent things, the will of the husband is a law to the wife. As unto the Lord - The obedience a wife pays to her husband is at the same time paid to Christ himself; he being head of the wife, as Christ is head of the church. <br /><br />Colossians 3:18- Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. "<br /><br />THE PROBLEM WITH THAT INTERPRETATION<br /><br />I am almost sure,but I could be wrong,that that same argument was used by TABASSUM HUSSAIN of the MUSLIM DEBATE INITIATIVE in her debate with MARY JO SHARP.<br /><br />You have overlooked,and I have said this before like 2X,that EPHE 5:21 JUST ONE VERSE BEFORE says:<br /><br />" SUBMIT YOURSELVES TO ONE ANOTHER for fear of Christ".<br /><br />So the HUSBAND ALSO has to SUBMIT himself to the WIFE,it is a RECIPROCAL SUBMISSION.minoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08030653596590889158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-59453814828767062342011-05-29T18:47:15.173-07:002011-05-29T18:47:15.173-07:00I vote for the answer (b) Anonymous is sex pervert...I vote for the answer (b) Anonymous is sex pervert, which implies the answer (c), because if one is a sex pervert that prevent him from proper understanding. since all intellectual capacity is directed to the lower half of the Body. He refuses to believe all companions, but he insists on 1 companion Ibn Umar, about whom the other companions said that he was mistaken.<br />Anonymous, I am still waiting for proof from the Bible that anal sex is not allowed. We know already that we cannot sit with, a woman in menstruation, or even touch her.<br /><b>When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening</b>1MoreMuslimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04831333084902899060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-86920216909250028772011-05-29T18:43:00.452-07:002011-05-29T18:43:00.452-07:00anonymous ,
To be fair , we need to compare the i...anonymous ,<br /><br />To be fair , we need to compare the issue of anal intercourse within the christian values.<br /><br />As bro yahya pointed out , according to the bible , anal intercourse is permitted.<br />eph5:22 '..Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord..'<br /><br />Can I conclude that if the husband demand anal intercourse , the wife according to eph5:22 need to submit to such demand.<br /><br />Any verses in the bible that prohibit anal intercourse?<br /><br />Lets see how you defend christianity against such claim.sam1528https://www.blogger.com/profile/01382805827344948691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-77148052494869633552011-05-29T18:35:42.678-07:002011-05-29T18:35:42.678-07:00Anonymous ,
From you '..sam1527, and does sur...Anonymous ,<br /><br />From you '..sam1527, and does sura 5.5 abrogate 2.222 at all?..'<br /><br />Huh?? Care to explain how Quran5:5 abrogate Quran2:222? You sure you know what you are talking about?<br /><br />Can you explain why we cannot refer to Quran2:222 with respect to the prohibition of anal intercourse? Its is clear (Quran2:222-223) that intercourse involve only the anatomy of the woman that discharges menstrual blood. Can you tell us which anatomy is that? What is the issue if the verses (Quran2:222 / Quran2:223) were revealed on separate occasion? The bottom line is that anal intercourse is prohibited.<br /><br />The list you provided ;<br />[v] al-Tabari 3: 754.<br />[vi] Ibn Kathir 2: 312.<br />[vii] al-Qurtubi 4: 8.<br />[viii] Ibn al-‘Arabi 1: 238 ;<br />refutes your argument. [v] and [vi] confirm that anal intercourse is prohibited. [vii] and [viii] is purely speculation. It states 'the companions of Prophet Muhammad(saw)' / 'legal scholars of medina'. Who were these people? As usual - no answers.<br /><br />Which category are you?<br />(a) a sex pervert<br />(b) don't understand what you read<br />(c) a sex pervert and don't understand what you readsam1528https://www.blogger.com/profile/01382805827344948691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-9921963276368775872011-05-29T17:17:21.867-07:002011-05-29T17:17:21.867-07:00Anonymous:
Are you saying that we cannot Interpre...Anonymous:<br /><br />Are you saying that we cannot Interpret 222, using 223? You give yourself the right to interpret a Gospel with another Gospel from different time different author different theology. You give yourself the right to see the letters of Paul in light of an unknown book named Hebrews and so on. Come back when you are willing to be consistent.<br /><b> Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will</b> a tilth is where you put seeds to get fruit, what kind of fruit you get in Anal sex?<br /><br />I am eager to know how would you prove anal sex forbidden in Christianity!1MoreMuslimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04831333084902899060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-12370715287528356272011-05-29T15:51:49.927-07:002011-05-29T15:51:49.927-07:001MM, are you going to deal with the Muslim sources...1MM, are you going to deal with the Muslim sources I provided (Tabari, Arabi) or will you throw red herrings and say I said something I never said? I asked (not you) if S 5.5 abrogates 2.222. And I think you just admitted that S. 2.222 and 2.223 are completely different contextually, hence making your use of 2.222 as some sort of support for whatever 2.223 says faulty. They talk about two different things, revealed in two different contexts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-17407541357894912362011-05-29T13:11:02.255-07:002011-05-29T13:11:02.255-07:00To Anonymous:
You have no capacity of grasping, V...To Anonymous:<br /><br />You have no capacity of grasping, Verse 223 does not contradict 222, why are speaking of abrogation? Contradictions are something you find in the Bible... Oh I forgot, you see no contradictions in the Bible!1MoreMuslimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04831333084902899060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-12136311721339398192011-05-29T13:04:14.817-07:002011-05-29T13:04:14.817-07:00Here are the sources, all translated by Arabic spe...Here are the sources, all translated by Arabic speaking former Muslim, for 1MM:<br /><br />[v] al-Tabari 3: 754.<br /><br />al Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muhammad Ibn Jarir. <i>Jami al-Bayan an Tawil Aay al-Quran</i> [a.k.a. Tafsir al Tabari]. Ed. Abd Allah Ibn Abd al Muhsin al-Turki. 26 vols. Cairo: Hajr Center, AH 1422/AD 2001. Print. V. 3, P. 754.<br /><br />[vi] Ibn Kathir 2: 312.<br /><br />Ibn Kathir, al Hafiz Imad al-Din Abu al-Fida. <i>Tafsir al-Quran al-Azim</i>. Ed. Mustafa al-Saiyd Muhammad, et al. 15 vols. Giza: Qurtuba Est., AH 1420/AD 2000. Print. V. 2 P. 312. <br /><br />[vii] al-Qurtubi 4: 8.<br /><br />al-Qurtubi, Abu Abd Allah Muhammad Ibn Ahmad. <i>al-Jami li-Ahkam al-Quran wa al-Mubayin li-ma Tadammanahu min al-Sunna wa Aay al-Furqan</i>. Ed. Abd Allah Ibn Abd al-Muhsin al-Turki. 24 vols. Beirut: al-Risala Est., AH 1427/AD 2006. Print. V. 4 P. 8.<br /><br />[viii] Ibn al-‘Arabi 1: 238.<br /><br />Ibn al-Arabi, Abu Bakr Muhammad Ibn Abd Allah. <i>Ahkam al-Quran</i>. Ed. T. Muhammad Abd al-Qadir Ata. 4 vols. Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiya, AH 1424/AD 2003. Print. V. 1. P. 238Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-60155429951860212902011-05-29T12:48:25.777-07:002011-05-29T12:48:25.777-07:00Here are the sources again, 1MM:
Concerning the a...Here are the sources again, 1MM:<br /><br />Concerning the above viewpoint, several stories are told about why this verse was handed down (revealed). One story relates “that a man approached a woman in her anus and was not settled in his soul about it.” Therefore, this verse was revealed.[iv]<br /><br />Another story tells of “a man who had anal intercourse with his wife…but the people considered it munkar (meaning “abhorable, abominable”)…so Allah sent down” this verse.[v]<br /><br />The legal scholars of Medina felt that anal intercourse should be allowed.[vi] Purportedly, in one of Malik’s books, Kitab al-Sir: The Book of the Secret, he is said to have agreed as well. There are other reports that indicate several of Muhammad’s companions also supported this view.[vii]<br /><br />In addition, Ibn al-‘Arabi, in his book Ahkam al-Qur’an: The Rulings of the Qur’an, says that a group of scholars supported anal intercourse. He adds that a scholar named Ibn Sha‘ban collected opinions supporting this viewpoint in a book titled Jma‘ al-Niswan wa Ahkam al-Qur’an: Intercourse with Women and the Rulings of the Qur’an. Ibn al-‘Arabi “found support to its permissibility among a noble group of the companions and the followers of Malik, in several stories.”[viii]<br /><br />[v] al-Tabari 3: 754.<br /><br />[vi] Ibn Kathir 2: 312.<br /><br />[vii] al-Qurtubi 4: 8.<br /><br />[viii] Ibn al-‘Arabi 1: 238.<br /><br />As i have said this is a secondary source but it gives you primary documentation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-20360220610300967342011-05-29T12:44:19.344-07:002011-05-29T12:44:19.344-07:001MM, here are the sources from Al Tabari
Al Baqar...1MM, here are the sources from Al Tabari<br /><br /><a href="http://thequran.com/Read/Verse/2/223/286/2#_edn3" rel="nofollow">Al Baqara 2:223 Errors</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-60903478569663696182011-05-29T12:43:33.461-07:002011-05-29T12:43:33.461-07:00sam1527, and does sura 5.5 abrogate 2.222 at all?sam1527, and does sura 5.5 abrogate 2.222 at all?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-59011183236980862122011-05-29T12:42:54.312-07:002011-05-29T12:42:54.312-07:00To Anonymous:
I gave a former Muslim site with th...To Anonymous:<br /><i> I gave a former Muslim site with the sources from Tabari where Muslims hold divergent opinions regarding the meaning of this verse and anal sex. </i><br />You are an unrepentant liar, you didn't give any source for Al Tabari. I thought you conceded that point, and changed your argument. you have such a short memory, why do you go back to your previously conceded point? All what Tabari says regarding this verse is saying that you lie. Repent.1MoreMuslimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04831333084902899060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-78998793043417423212011-05-29T12:31:48.404-07:002011-05-29T12:31:48.404-07:00(1) the said christians are sex perverts
(2) the s...<i>(1) the said christians are sex perverts<br />(2) the said christians don't understand what they read<br />(3) the said christians are sex perverts and don't understand what they read.</i><br /><br />woooooow i should have kept reading before making a reply to see that you are not serious...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-48136244201854307112011-05-29T12:30:31.052-07:002011-05-29T12:30:31.052-07:00sam1528, I gave a former Muslim site with the sour...sam1528, I gave a former Muslim site with the sources from Tabari where Muslims hold divergent opinions regarding the meaning of this verse and anal sex. You also say we need to look at 222 for clarification. How can this be? Were these verses revealed one after another to Muhammad in the same context? Or were they revealed on two different separate occasions?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-70270551090123240092011-05-29T04:47:03.293-07:002011-05-29T04:47:03.293-07:00mesage from david wood
Some friends and I will be...mesage from david wood<br /><br />Some friends and I will be traveling to Dearborn, Michigan, for an outreach at the Arab International Festival. We're printing pamphlets on Christianity and Islam (including my recent posts "Who Corrupted the Gospel?" and "Who Was Muhammad?"), and we have a team of believers to distribute and explain them. However, costs are high, especially for printing (not to mention travel, etc.). We know someone who can print pamphlets at a cost of $299 for 5,000, or $499 for 10,000. Please contribute as much as possible to support our trip to the festival, as this is a phenomenal opportunity to reach Muslims with the Gospel. (In case anyone is wondering, no one on our end will be profiting financially from the trip. We'll be thrilled if we break even.)<br /><br />Note: If anyone would like to cover an entire batch of tracts, either 5,000 or 10,000, let me know and I will put you in contact with the printer. You can pay directly via credit card, which means that PayPal and ChipIn won't get a percentage. If anyone covers 10,000 tracts, I will write an entirely new tract (that is, new material will go out to thousands of Muslims).answeringmuslimsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-48834489212380203102011-05-29T03:38:57.052-07:002011-05-29T03:38:57.052-07:00anonymous ,
Its really bizarre christians keep on...anonymous ,<br /><br />Its really bizarre christians keep on insisting Quran2:223 is about anal sex. You should read / understand verse 222 to understand verse 223. Lets look at the 2 verses :<br /><br />222. They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. But when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by Allah. For Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.<br /><br />223. Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe. <br /><br /><br />Its very clear , approach her in any way when she is free of her menses. Which anatomy of the woman discharges menstrual blood?<br /><br />The conclusions we can make of christians insisting anal sex in Quran2:223 are <br />(1) the said christians are sex perverts<br />(2) the said christians don't understand what they read<br />(3) the said christians are sex perverts and don't understand what they read.sam1528https://www.blogger.com/profile/01382805827344948691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-2177983567406478702011-05-28T21:23:17.502-07:002011-05-28T21:23:17.502-07:001MM, But Ibn Kathir, like you say, collected what ...1MM, But Ibn Kathir, like you say, collected what people says about this verse. Therefore, he collected what he thought was right, what he wanted to include, what he wanted to convey. Not the other side. Im not saying that bad, but what if there are earlier sayings Kathir glosses over.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-76648506131072446142011-05-28T21:20:51.991-07:002011-05-28T21:20:51.991-07:00Ali, Men are head of women when it comes to some t...Ali, Men are head of women when it comes to some things, yes. But their bodies are not as tilth for the man, men do not hold right over the woman body. Men are in charge of producing, planning, safety, etc etc. Women and men have their roles, they are defined in the Bible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-84004059613380883832011-05-28T21:19:08.793-07:002011-05-28T21:19:08.793-07:00Alexander,You say of Christian theology. The probl...Alexander,You say of Christian theology. <i>The problem is that Christians has an idea of God being beaten and killed which makes them think that Allah the Allmighty is in need of help.</i> God did not get beaten, the man Christ Jesus did. Although the Son did take on all of our sin, something only a perfect sacrifice could do, he did it willingly for his bride. You do not make the distinction between the eternal Son of God na d the historical person with two natures, divine and human. <br /><br /><i>Jesus was in need of help</i>, Jesus was not in need of any help, he went up willingly and could raise the dead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-40399924419560669692011-05-28T21:00:11.326-07:002011-05-28T21:00:11.326-07:001MM, Here is the source:
Al Baqara 2:223 Errors1MM, Here is the source:<br /><br /><a href="http://thequran.com/Read/Verse/2/223/286/2#_edn3" rel="nofollow">Al Baqara 2:223 Errors</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-81987437254680866112011-05-28T15:58:12.888-07:002011-05-28T15:58:12.888-07:00More info:
The author of Luke-Acts himself says h...More info:<br /><br />The author of Luke-Acts himself says he was a traveling companion of Paul,saying "us" and "we" repeatedly in:<br /><br />Acts 16:10-17<br /><br />Acts 20:5-15<br /><br />Acts 21:1-18<br /><br />Acts 27:1-28:16minoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08030653596590889158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-37524998778649016942011-05-28T15:46:08.140-07:002011-05-28T15:46:08.140-07:00To 1MM
He said:
"To Minoria:
The last thing...To 1MM<br /><br />He said:<br /><br />"To Minoria:<br />The last thing I want , is that you answer my questions in my Blog. I don`t want spam in there."<br /><br />No problem but your argument about ACTS 17:29 and ROM 2:20 is wrong because you believe Paul never read ACTS.ACTS 17:22-31 has a speech by Paul and he knew it because in 1 TIM 5:17-18 he CITES the Gospel of LUKE and says it is SCRIPTURE.<br /><br />http://www.avraidire.com/2010/04/about-the-dating-of-the-synoptics-and-2-letters/<br /><br />One of the reasons 1 TIM is considered a forgery is because prophecies are impossible,Jesus never said the Temple would be destroyed so Paul could never have read Acts-Luke since he died in 64 and it was written in 80-85.<br /><br />But if Jesus did say it,and I believe he did,then he read ACTS 17:22-31 and my explanation is the best one,there is no contradiction.<br /><br />I know the tehcnical reasons scholars date the NT books as being at X date or being "forgeries".But if it were not for the Temple prophecy no scholar would date ACTS-LUKE more than 61 and JOHN at more than 71 AD.minoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08030653596590889158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-33602870457725632932011-05-28T12:46:32.452-07:002011-05-28T12:46:32.452-07:00To Anonymous:
You wonder what Muslims think before...To Anonymous:<br />You wonder what Muslims think before Ibn Kathir wrote his tafsir? Ibn Katheer didn`t invent Tafseer, he collected what people says about this verse in a book. So before Ibn Katheer's tafseer, Muslims have them all in oral tradition. Contrary to Christian theology , where you cannot know what the lay Christians believe before councils. You owe your belief solely to Councils.1MoreMuslimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04831333084902899060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-32627849376240271122011-05-28T12:05:10.483-07:002011-05-28T12:05:10.483-07:00//To help you understand, Christ was a sacrifice f...//To help you understand, Christ was a sacrifice for His people, he went to the cross willingly. <br /><br />This is exactly what the verse says. To sacrifice yourself even to the point of death, for your family and wife//<br /><br />uhhhh no thats not really a relation. if you say jesus is god and he's head of the church (its an object) and men are the heads of women, that means they're an object?<br /><br />read the other verses on how they all connect. silent submission, obedience etcAlihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03587980913713321044noreply@blogger.com