tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post4683896115212443131..comments2023-11-09T05:50:27.936-08:00Comments on The Facts About Islam: Why Do Christians Believe in Original Sin?Yahya Snowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-9094737683336273202010-10-30T18:39:06.399-07:002010-10-30T18:39:06.399-07:00Yahya may I first ask you to clarify what is your ...Yahya may I first ask you to clarify what is your understanding of original sin. You start the article by quoting verses and stating that this doctrine is no where in the OT or the Gospels even without telling the reader what you are refuting in the first place.<br /><br />Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam.<br /><br />From your posts I think you have misunderstood the doctrine of original sin as the sin's committed by one generation being passed on to the next. We believe that Adam's first sin is the one that is passed onto every generation. Adam by his fault transmitted to us not only death but also sin, "for as by the disobedience of one man many [i.e., all men] were made sinners" <b>(Romans 5:19)</b>. Thus the verses you quoted from Ezekiel, 2 Kings and Matthew 19 are out of context and do not deal with the subject of OS.<br /><br />You also stated that this is only a Christian concept and Jews do not believe in original sin. The concept of OS is mentioned in the <b>fourth Book of Esdras. The below is taken from Jewish Encyclopedia (Not Christian website)</b><br /><br />"The germ of evil sown into man by the first sin of Adam"<br /><br />Read more: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=463&letter=E#ixzz13tR1d4r5<br /><br />You quoted T.W Brents and provided a link, the site clearly states that there are three possibilities of the meaning of Psalm 51:5. What you pasted was one of the three possibilities. What you did not post from the site was this - "Most likely, however, Psalm 51:5 merely refers to the fact that David was born into a sinful environment. We all are conceived in and brought forth into a sinful world. But we do not actually sin until we arrive at a stage of spiritual responsibility." I also provided you with 4 other commentaries that support Psalm 51:5 refers to OS.YFC777https://www.blogger.com/profile/13498650362972997685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-28588839811022157662010-10-30T09:30:50.031-07:002010-10-30T09:30:50.031-07:00@yfc777
Concerning Islam eliminated the problemat...@yfc777<br /><br />Concerning Islam eliminated the problematic doctrine of OS...yes, Islam does eliminate it as it denounces the doctrine.<br /><br />Babies are born sinless according to Islam, thus they do not have to undergo a baptism. <br /><br />Babies are not thrown into hell based on a forefather's sin...but your ST Augustine and other early Christians were adamnt babies are hell-bound based on ADAM'S sin. <br /><br />Here is what I wrote in a previous comment:<br /><br />Muslims do not have the problem of original sin and nor do we send babies to hell based on Paul's idea of original sin. In fact we reject such a construct.<br /><br />We do have a few opinions on the destiny of children though;one of which is that the children will be tested in the hereafter. Ihave uploaded a Sheikh's reply on the said matter, here is a snip:<br /><br />That they will be tested in the Hereafter, and whoever obeys Allaah will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys Him will enter Hell. This is the view of the majority of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, as transmitted by Abu’l-Hasan al-Ash’ari, and it is the opinion of al-Bayhaqi and many other researchers<br /><br />Here is the link:<br />http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/10/do-babies-go-to-heaven-of-hell.html<br /><br />Come to Islam today, my friend.<br /><br />PeaceYahya Snowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-2718557125414448432010-10-30T09:16:28.511-07:002010-10-30T09:16:28.511-07:00@yfc777
As for your insistence and support of the...@yfc777<br /><br />As for your insistence and support of the original sin doctrine.<br /><br />Firstly, you are appealing to a faulty translation of the said verse. All the other translations I presented speak of being conceived in sin...that obviously refers to the sexual act which yielded the child (it was adulterous according to the CONTEXT)<br /><br /><br />Seen as we are discussing context, we can ask ourselves how JEWS understood this...do they believe in the OS? No. Clearly they do not view it to be supporting the OS doctrine.<br /><br />I also showed you Brents explanation of the verse and he makes it quite clear it is NOT teahing OS. <br /><br />Furthermore, and more importantly, Jesus, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Book of Genesis and 2Kings ALL appear to reject the idea of OS.<br /><br />So, yfc777, if you want to hold onto this new belief of Paul's based on a skewed understanding and translation of a VAGUE portion of the Bible (Psalm) as well as the undependable Paul then it is on your head. We are talking issues of salvation<br /><br />I invite all to Islam and worship the Creator of Paul, Ezekiel, Jesus and all that exists.<br /><br />PeaceYahya Snowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-44374634483259137812010-10-30T06:50:33.708-07:002010-10-30T06:50:33.708-07:00@Maratsafin brought up the topic of do babies who ...@Maratsafin brought up the topic of do babies who die and are not baptized go to heaven. Yahya Show claims Islam frees you from the headache of original sin and has all the answers.<br /><br />Well, read the below Hadits on this topic. Islam does not have the answer to this question as well. <br /><br /><br />Sahih Muslim, Book 32, Number 6435:<br /><br /> Narrated Aisha:<br /><br /> A child died and I said: There is happiness for this child who is a bird from amongst the birds of Paradise. Thereupon Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) said: Don't you know that Allah created the Paradise and He created the Hell and He created the dwellers for this (Paradise) and the denizens for this (Hell)? <br /><br />When Aisha expresses her belief and expectation of happiness for the child that died, Muhammad disagrees and instead states that God has created some people for Hell. Obviously, this includes children, because that is the topic of the conversation.<br /><br />Malik's Muwatta, Book 16, Number 16.16.53:<br /><br /> Narrated Abu Hurayrah:<br /><br /> The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Every child is born on the fitrah and it is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian. Just as a camel is born whole - do you perceive any defect?" They said, "Messenger of Allah, what happens to people who die when they are (very) young?" He said, "Allah knows best what they used to do (or would have done)."YFC777https://www.blogger.com/profile/13498650362972997685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-60515227534417631402010-10-29T15:53:57.515-07:002010-10-29T15:53:57.515-07:00@Yahya Snow:
Firstly when you say "it seems ...@Yahya Snow:<br /><br />Firstly when you say "it seems to be about the sinful act of adultery yielding a child; the Psalm is thought to be a projection upon the future child of an adulterous relationship" .. I hope you realize in this verse (Psalm 51:5) David is talking about himself and his own conception and not a future adulterous relationship. Neither is there any proof of his mother having such a relationship. Read the context of Psalm 55, below are extracts from Christian scholars on this verse.<br /><br />1: Clarke's commentary - "I believe David to speak here of what is commonly called original sin; the propensity to evil which every man brings into the world with him, and which is the fruitful source whence all transgression proceeds."<br /><br />2: Barnes commentary - "The idea is simply that he was "born" in iniquity; or that he was a sinner when he was born; or that his sin could be traced back to his very birth"<br /><br />3: Gills commentary - "the earliness of the corruption of nature; it is as soon as man is conceived and shapen; and that it is propagated from one to another by natural generation; and that it is the case of all men: for if this was the case of David"<br /><br />4: Keil and Delitzsch commentary - "David here confesses his hereditary sin as the root of his actual sin. The declaration moves backwards from his birth to conception, it consequently penetrates even to the most remote point of life's beginning"YFC777https://www.blogger.com/profile/13498650362972997685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-45694708099989451612010-10-29T08:36:27.403-07:002010-10-29T08:36:27.403-07:00@yfc77
Nope, not quite.
The NIV translation of P...@yfc77<br /><br />Nope, not quite.<br /><br />The NIV translation of Psalm 51:5 is well known to be at odds with the others. See NASB, ESV and KJV...you will realise the other transaltions (mentioned) do not support the idea of original sin in the said verse. In fact, if you read the more accurate translations you realise the verse refers to the child being CONCEIVED in sin (this makes sense as the Psalm is thought to be talking about the sin of adultery)<br /><br />So, the OT does not teach the original sin. <br /><br />I have written an article on Psalm 51:5...please do review it when you have time:<br /><br />http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/10/does-psalm-515-teach-original-sin.html<br /><br />I will try to append it to this article, God willing<br /><br />I invite all to Islam<br /><br />Peace and loveYahya Snowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-53397166220898882782010-10-28T13:16:44.635-07:002010-10-28T13:16:44.635-07:00Quote from blog "It is neither in the Old Tes...Quote from blog "It is neither in the Old Testament nor in the Gospel accounts."<br /><br />Reply to the author of this blog<br /><br />Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; <b>and in sin did my mother conceive me.</b>"YFC777https://www.blogger.com/profile/13498650362972997685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-28969332076863340192010-10-27T15:06:57.338-07:002010-10-27T15:06:57.338-07:00Sam is just jealous, because as a Christian does n...Sam is just jealous, because as a Christian does not follow cleansing procedures such as istinja, hence his booty smellls.. Sam, go away.. you smellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-28569045325572916192010-10-27T04:53:35.438-07:002010-10-27T04:53:35.438-07:00if christians change to muslim then it is good 4 t...if christians change to muslim then it is good 4 themmannynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-67889935082054784852010-10-26T14:02:08.405-07:002010-10-26T14:02:08.405-07:00sam's an idiot hands down. funny acts 17 suppo...sam's an idiot hands down. funny acts 17 supports him.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03587980913713321044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-70050580220122036162010-10-26T13:51:53.247-07:002010-10-26T13:51:53.247-07:00frm sam
shamounian (4 days ago) Spam Marked as sp...frm sam<br /><br />shamounian (4 days ago) Spam Marked as spam Hey folks, we have another foul mouthed dog named DrXoz barking over the fact that Christian apologists such as myself are completely humiliating and exposing Muslim liars and deceivers like Sami Zaatari and Yahya Snow, the coward who hides behind his blog but doesn't have the guts to debate his trash so that all could see what would happen to him for producing such garbage which he calls rebuttals! Sami, Yahya, and JibreelK, the cowardly convert, make a great comedy team. They are better than the 3 stooges!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com