Saturday 2 July 2011

Is the Universe Too Precise to Be Randomly Formed?



Dr William Lane Craig presents a finely tuned argument against atheism.
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17 comments:

Radical Moderate said...

Good debate, now compare that with the Muslim fiasco or any Muslim debate with atheist.

This is why Muslims you should not debate atheists, leave that to those of us who truly know God the Christians

2 July 2011 at 16:29
Anonymous said...

@Brother Snow, I found his video a Muslim brother calls in to ABN and completly refutes Shamoon and Wood.

Sam Shamooon and David Wood Refuted live on ABN by a Muslim brother may Allah be pleased with him.

2 July 2011 at 17:05
Anonymous said...

Radical Moderater, your erroneously generalizating on all Muslim-Atheists debates, when you probably haven't even seen all of them, which shows your biasnesses.

I can apply the same reasonings with you and say that Christians should not debate Muslims on Islam, because:

"...leave that to those of us who truly know Islam, the Muslims."

You may know your concept of God, doesn't mean you know the true concept of God.

3 July 2011 at 01:58
Anonymous said...

Also, I'd like to see a Christian-Atheist debate specifically regarding whether the Christian God exists, and I as a Muslim would defend the atheist's position here.

Christians wouldn't stand a chance in that debate, because you have an oxymoron notion of God.

3 July 2011 at 02:05
Yahya Snow said...

@anonymous (the first one)

Stop, please stop.
Perhaps you confused it for this link or were simply trying to con me (a number of 'Christians' have been trying to con Muslims into converting to trinitarian Chrstianity recently, here's one we exposed earlier:

David Wood, devout Christian, lying on ABN for money/hatred/church/evangelsim/bassim gorial

Now that's what I call a proper and relevant.

You should not tempt folk here as you NEVER know what type of video is in the pipeline set to expose your lying heroes. Just ask Dave, he linked to a page on this site, I jazzed that page up with his latest lie and what do you know...Dave retreats and removes the link. I guess he was shamed...

@radical moderate

Stop, please stop. William Lane Craig has done a good job here. Let's leave it at that. You Christians disliked William Lane Craig when he admitted the trinity was not evidenced in the Old Testament, it (alongside our work) kind of made a mockery out of the absurd claims by some Christians that an angel in the OT was God. Some folk will throw common sense and honest readings of scripture out of the window to interject their personal tendencies for paganism into the OT. How sad.

Drop your anti-muslim feelings and search for the truth. IF you want to become a brother/sister of Jesus (p) please become a Muslim.

Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another.

3 July 2011 at 03:03
Radical Moderate said...

Anon said...

"Radical Moderater, your erroneously generalizating on all Muslim-Atheists debates, when you probably haven't even seen all of them, which shows your biasnesses. "

Your right I have not seen all Muslim v's Atheist debates. I have seen the brief encounter that with atheists in Iraland that Snowman put up, I have heard a few on PT, its kind of funny but Muslims have called me in their rooms to refute Atheists because they couldn't.

If there where any good Muslim v's Atheist debates I think Snowman would post them. Since he really hasn't I can only conclude that there are none.

Anon also wrote...
"I can apply the same reasonings with you and say that Christians should not debate Muslims on Islam, because:

"...leave that to those of us who truly know Islam, the Muslims."

I wish Muslims would debate Muslims on ISLAM. I actually encourage Sami Zatari when he debated other Muslims on Jihad. All my questions where asked by the Muslim moderator, and a fight almost broke out in the green room between Sami's supporters and the other Muslims supporters with the answer to one of my questions.

Question "If a Muslim was going to blow himself up and kill children would you report him to the Kuffar Police?"

The answer from the Muslim "No we should never turn in Muslims to the Kuffar no matter what."

That was not what almost caused a fight. What almost caused a fight in the green room was when the Moderator then re worded and re asked the this question.

"What about Muslim children?"

The answer again was "Never turn a Muslim over to the Kuffar"

You then wrote...

"Also, I'd like to see a Christian-Atheist debate specifically regarding whether the Christian God exists.

Dr White has debated a atheist twice, one topic was "Does the Triune God of scripture live" or something like that.

You also wrote...

"and I as a Muslim would defend the atheist's position here."

Thank you for proving my point that Muslims really do not believe in God, you hate him just as much as they do.

3 July 2011 at 06:20
Radical Moderate said...

@Snowman and the Anon who posted the video of a Muslim refuting Sam and David.

Whats wrong Snowman, no rebuke for the Muslim calling in threatening Sam and David, more of just the same old "David and Sam lied"

Tell me when are you going to repent for YOUR LIE, that Sam Shamoun said that Muslims are a Cancer? Sad so sad.

I guess lying and threatening and killing Christians is the only Way Islam can refute Christians.

3 July 2011 at 06:25
Radical Moderate said...

@Snowman again...

You lied again...

"you Christians disliked William Lane Craig when he admitted the trinity was not evidenced in the Old Testament,"

When did anyone express a "dislike" for Craig. If I recall correctly what Craig expressed was the view that the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. That with out the final revelation of the WORD BECOMING FLESH, the fullness and completeness of God revelation would be incomplete.

However through out the Old testament begging in Gen 1, God reveals himself in three distinct persons.

In Gen 19:24 "Then the YHWH rained down fire and sulfur from the YHWH in Heaven" how many YHWH's are there?

I see your still using "Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another." I guess still haven't been able to produce a verse like it from your Quran so sad.

3 July 2011 at 06:41
1MoreMuslim said...

Radical Moderate:
"Good debate, now compare that with the Muslim fiasco or any Muslim debate with atheist."
I find Adam deen and rajab Hassanine's debates much more intellectual. When it comes to scriptures and theology, Christians like M Lacona and W. Craig got owned.

3 July 2011 at 08:57
Radical Moderate said...

1milmeter

You wrote...

"I find Adam deen and rajab Hassanine's debates much more intellectual. When it comes to scriptures and theology, Christians like M Lacona and W. Craig got owned."

Got any links to those debates I would love to listen.

Speaking of being owned, looks like the great scholar Sam Shamoun owned you big time on David's blog.

By using as you said "detailed use of Islamic sources".

So you ready to repent and admit that your Allah REPENTS

3 July 2011 at 09:05
1MoreMuslim said...

Ridicule Mod

"So you ready to repent and admit that your Allah REPENTS"

You dare bring that claim here on Muslim Blog.
Now go to What Sam posted and paste it here, and show me where did Sam prove anything. Sam's own lexicon proved him wrong. There is no verse in the Quran speaking about Allah repenting. Now that comments are posted without a delay, you will be refuted immediately without David wood's delays.

3 July 2011 at 10:03
Anonymous said...

1mm,

That's funny. Shamoun's article showing that Allah repents has been up and still there is no response from you.

You've also been completely silent on what your religion teaches about Allah having some sort of a corporeal body and your "prophet's" claim that Allah appeared to him as a man.

3 July 2011 at 12:15
M.R. said...

Cosmological Argument

The term “cosmological” comes from the Greek word “kosmos” which means “world.”

The cosmological argument for God’s existence goes like this: The world could not exist on its own so there must have been a first cause that brought it into being. This first cause is God. Or put another way, the universe could not just exist on its own—someone or something must have made it. This cause of the universe is God.

3 July 2011 at 12:57
Yahya Snow said...

You lied again...

"you Christians disliked William Lane Craig when he admitted the trinity was not evidenced in the Old Testament,"

When did anyone express a "dislike" for Craig. If I recall correctly what Craig expressed was the view that the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. That with out the final revelation of the WORD BECOMING FLESH, the fullness and completeness of God revelation would be incomplete.

Me: Huh?
Keith stated WLC was wrong. Try getting up to speed. WLC was not agreeing with your wacky claims of the trinity being proven within the OT.

Radmod: Tell me when are you going to repent for YOUR LIE, that Sam Shamoun said that Muslims are a Cancer? Sad so sad

Huh? Shamoun called Muslims a cancer. It's recorded. Shamoun also calls Muslims 'sons of satan' and 'dogs'

But hey, you fund his sedentry and vile life style so you don't care.

Radmod: If there where any good Muslim v's Atheist debates I think Snowman would post them. Since he really hasn't I can only conclude that there are none

Adam Deen and Hassan do present good argumentation in debates with secularists. Watch this space. So does Hamza Tzortis and Abdullah al Andalusi. Sadly your bigotry impedes you.

Radmod: However through out the Old testament begging in Gen 1, God reveals himself in three distinct persons.

In Gen 19:24 "Then the YHWH rained down fire and sulfur from the YHWH in Heaven" how many YHWH's are there?

Me: HUH? What?

All these wacky interjections of the trinity into the OT make you look dishonest and unscholarly.

Radmod:I see your still using "Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another." I guess still haven't been able to produce a verse like it from your Quran so sad.

Me: Huh?

Radmod, please stop giving cash to Sam and start investing time and cash in more healthier pursuits

3 July 2011 at 15:05
1MoreMuslim said...

To Anonymous:

"That's funny. Shamoun's article showing that Allah repents has been up and still there is no response from you."

My refutation of Sam Samoun was up on youtube several months ago.

3 July 2011 at 19:30
Radical Moderate said...

@Snowman

You wrote...
"Huh? Shamoun called Muslims a cancer. It's recorded. Shamoun also calls Muslims 'sons of satan' and 'dogs'"

NO HE DIDNT, YOU INSERTED THE WORD (MUSLIM) IN THE TEXT YOU LIED.

He said to your minion Jailbreak and his minions "YOU GUYS ARE A CANCER ON SOCIETY" NO WHERE DID HE SAY MUSLIMS.

YOUR A LIAR, oh I'm sorry I meant to say YOUR A MUSLIM.

JUST LIKE THESE MUSLIMS.

Sons of dogs and Satan

4 July 2011 at 10:35
Haecceitas said...

1Moremuslim,

It's funny that you say you find Adam Deen's debates "much more intellectual". I've seen 1 or 2 debates by him and it is very clear that about 80% of Deen's material is borrowed from Craig. Sometimes he uses the very same phrases that Craig has used for a few decades. Deen does seem like a good debater though and IMO he won his debate against Dan Barker at least (can't really recall who was his opponent in the other debate by him that I might have seen).

It would be an interesting exercise to go through Shabir Ally's debates against atheists and see if he's consistent with the claim he made in his debate with James White, namely that if you take away from a Muslim the belief in the Quran and the prophethood of Mumammad, you don't get some kind of generic theist but an atheist (or perhaps agnostic). If Shabir really believes that, then he should not have used any theistic arguments apart from specifically islamic arguments against those atheist opponents that he has faced in a debate. After all, his position as expressed vs. White implies that there are no good grounds apart from Islam to believe in God. But somehow I doubt that this was Shabir's approach.

6 July 2011 at 00:53

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