tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post8368292345630770148..comments2023-11-09T05:50:27.936-08:00Comments on The Facts About Islam: Debate Review: /does Prophet Muhammad Exist in the Bible (Osama Abdallah and Anthony Rogers)Yahya Snowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-4995190893583371712013-07-29T10:37:06.818-07:002013-07-29T10:37:06.818-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-41809215660822859762013-07-22T02:27:02.045-07:002013-07-22T02:27:02.045-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-58247967667244817582013-07-21T10:17:11.409-07:002013-07-21T10:17:11.409-07:00Ok Yahya, I see your comment has made its way back...Ok Yahya, I see your comment has made its way back. Thank you for that. I look forward to your coming response when time permits.<br /><br />On another note, in reading your review of the debate itself, I observed that you handed the victory to Osama purely on the basis of his argument for Deuteronomy 18:18. However, Anthony pointed out that the context demonstrates that the bretheren being spoken of are the bretheren of the Levites, which of course would refer to the remaining 11 tribes of Israel. In light of this you acknowledged that it was an interesting point that you would need to look into.<br /><br />I draw attention to this Yahya, because if Anthony is correct regarding the interpretation based upon the context, then it would seem to me that the single point that you felt won Osama the debate is actually lost to Anthony. In fact, there is absolutely nothing in the text that would lead one to look beyond the 12 tribes of Israel to some foreign peoples. Such an interpretation breaks the flow and intention of the text.<br /><br />I would like to point out a couple of other things as well. You mention that Muhammad did in fact see Allah face to face in the Night Journey. However, I do not see any Hadith which recount the Night Journey, ever mentioning Muhammad seeing Allah's face. Could you please direct me to the reference which mentions Allah's face?<br /><br />With regards to what Radical Moderate is saying, the doctrine of the Divine Trinity is certainly compatible with the "prophet like Moses" seeing God face to face. God is often used as an appellation of any one of the three persons of the Divine Trinity, much like in Acts 20:28 which speaks of God's own blood. The understanding in that verse is not that the Father shed blood, nor the Holy Spirit, but specifically the Son. In like manner, Christ the Son saw God face to face. In other words, He beheld the Father. To back up this interpretation, we find Peter identifying Christ as the prophet like Moses in His sermon in Acts chapter 3 and Stephen's defense in Acts 7 likewise identify's Christ as that prophet like Moses. Would you not agree that these are the earliest interpretations of Deuteronomy 18:18 we have attributed to Christ's followers? I believe you would be hard pressed to find something to the contrary in the manuscript tradition that would lead you to original readings of these verses against the ones that we have in the New Testament.<br /><br />Royal Sonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-41634559773486133552013-07-21T06:14:17.200-07:002013-07-21T06:14:17.200-07:00Yahya I do have another question for you, Im unsur...Yahya I do have another question for you, Im unsure as to what Mohamed is. Is her a prophet or is he a Warner or is he a messenger?Radical Moderatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01563355121096154790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-62636482607852256822013-07-21T05:33:33.361-07:002013-07-21T05:33:33.361-07:00@Yahya Snow you wrote...
"Now if one does no...@Yahya Snow you wrote...<br /><br />"Now if one does not see issues with that then they are unwilling to think."<br /><br />My Response:<br /><br />Snowman why don't you show us you can think and explain what the issue is?Radical Moderatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01563355121096154790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-62530355347718276502013-07-21T03:43:25.663-07:002013-07-21T03:43:25.663-07:00Oh I just noticed a Trinitarian (radical) wrote:
...Oh I just noticed a Trinitarian (radical) wrote:<br /><br /> 'Jesus is God, so Jesus did see God face to face since he is God and comes from God. '<br /><br />Now if one does not see issues with that then they are unwilling to think.Yahya Snowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-62060852729436657962013-07-21T03:40:45.517-07:002013-07-21T03:40:45.517-07:00@Minoria
The point here is that the word spirit c...@Minoria<br /><br />The point here is that the word spirit can refer to a Prophet. Your own Bible confirms such.<br /><br />This is for you to reflect on brother.<br /><br />I also notice some of the fundamentalist Christians on the internet have been insulting you. Try and ignore them. <br /><br />@ Royalson<br /><br />The comment was caught up in the spam box as I made a few comments in one sitting. You should be able to view it now.<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />@ Radical<br /><br />You believe Jesus is God. Don't make the statement like it's a fact. <br /><br />Yahya Snowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-47661503984269757882013-07-20T21:07:24.059-07:002013-07-20T21:07:24.059-07:00To the Anon who wrote...
"If Anthony is a Ch...To the Anon who wrote...<br /><br />"If Anthony is a Christian he has to make the distinction between the father, son and holy ghost, but to say that Jesus saw God and spoke to God and heard God is really to say that Jesus isn't God."<br /><br />My Response:<br /><br />Jesus is God, so Jesus did see God face to face since he is God and comes from God. <br /><br />You continue on:<br /><br />Do you think that his statement "Jesus spoke face to face with God" is correct?<br /><br />My Response:<br /><br />Yes of course I do, I'm a Christian.<br /><br />You continue:<br /><br />"And if You believe that Jesus is God, is it than correct to say that "God saw God face to face" and thus fulfilled the prophesy of the OT?"<br /><br />My Response:<br /><br />Yes, the pre incarnate Word before coming as Jesus of Nazareth is God was God and saw God face to face.Radical Moderatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01563355121096154790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-86638544708363431562013-07-20T21:04:12.336-07:002013-07-20T21:04:12.336-07:00To the Anon who wrote...
"If Anthony is a Ch...To the Anon who wrote...<br /><br />"If Anthony is a Christian he has to make the distinction between the father, son and holy ghost, but to say that Jesus saw God and spoke to God and heard God is really to say that Jesus isn't God."<br /><br />My Response:<br /><br />Jesus is God, so Jesus did see God face to face since he is God and comes from God. <br /><br />You continue on:<br /><br />Do you think that his statement "Jesus spoke face to face with God" is correct?<br /><br />My Response:<br /><br />Yes of course I do, I'm a Christian.<br /><br />You continue:<br /><br />"And if You believe that Jesus is God, is it than correct to say that "God saw God face to face" and thus fulfilled the prophesy of the OT?"<br /><br />My Response:<br /><br />Yes, the pre incarnate Word before coming as Jesus of Nazareth is God was God and saw God face to face.Radical Moderatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01563355121096154790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-37003377204619081352013-07-20T20:13:26.549-07:002013-07-20T20:13:26.549-07:00From Minoria:
Hello Yahya:
You stated:
"Th...From Minoria:<br /><br />Hello Yahya:<br /><br />You stated:<br /><br />"Thanks for acknowledging the credibility of the Muslim claims regarding Deut 18:18<br /><br />As for the word 'spirit' it can mean 'prophet'. See this bible verse:<br /><br />"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world," <br />[1John 4/1]"<br /><br />I know that verse(1 John 4:1)but it refers to a completely different culture and language from that of Jesus.Jesus spoke no Greek,his culture was Jewish,not Greek(as was that of the listeners to which 1 John was directed to,a Greek culture).<br /><br />Chapter 14 of John refers to a speech said in Aramaic,a language very similar to Hebrew(like Spanish and Portuguese)and in that language and culture a spirit was always a spirit,never a human.As far as I know there is nothing in any Hebrew and Aramaic book written by Jews(like the Talmud,the Qmran writings,etc)where a spirit in Hebrew or Aramaic is a human being.If it were so then Muslim debaters would have pointed it out a long time ago.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-84550630994053339862013-07-20T19:38:18.806-07:002013-07-20T19:38:18.806-07:00If Anthony is a Christian he has to make the disti...If Anthony is a Christian he has to make the distinction between the father, son and holy ghost, but to say that Jesus saw God and spoke to God and heard God is really to say that Jesus isn't God.<br /><br /> Do you think that his statement "Jesus spoke face to face with God" is correct?<br /><br />And if You believe that Jesus is God, is it than correct to say that "God saw God face to face" and thus fulfilled the prophesy of the OT?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-36093622777336928732013-07-20T19:10:18.209-07:002013-07-20T19:10:18.209-07:00Anon said...
"Well, Antony didn't say fa...Anon said...<br /><br />"Well, Antony didn't say father and the son and I understand why you have a hard time to accept that statement"<br /><br />My Response:<br /><br />He doesn't have too state father and the son. The context is clear. And second since I fully understand what AR said and you don't, I'm not the one who has the problem. It is you who has the problem.<br /><br />Anyway man please think a little more before you type.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-67616889135597772312013-07-20T19:06:31.193-07:002013-07-20T19:06:31.193-07:00"Congratulation that is a core belief in the ..."Congratulation that is a core belief in the doctrine of the trinity. A clear distinction between the father and the son."<br /><br />Well, Antony didn't say father and the son and I understand why you have a hard time to accept that statement. but that is a problem between you and Allah Allmighty, Allah forgives those who ask for His forgiveness, He is the Forgiving most Mercyful.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-84630621969647766182013-07-20T18:52:20.222-07:002013-07-20T18:52:20.222-07:00Yahya Snow wrote...
" In that particular ins...Yahya Snow wrote...<br /><br />" In that particular instance he was trying to argue for an angel (yes, an angel) to be God in the OT."<br /><br />My Response:<br /><br />Snowman just like Ijaz you have demonstrated that you do not understand Anthony Rogers argument. It went completely over Ijaz's head, so much so that he had a poll done to figure it out.<br /><br />To funny.Radical Moderatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01563355121096154790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-49445722311108387202013-07-20T18:48:13.388-07:002013-07-20T18:48:13.388-07:00Anon wrote...
"He said that Jesus was face t...Anon wrote...<br /><br />"He said that Jesus was face to face with God and made a clear distinction between Jesus and God."<br /><br />My Response:<br /><br />Congratulation that is a core belief in the doctrine of the trinity. A clear distinction between the father and the son.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-13895206130466745752013-07-20T18:44:25.274-07:002013-07-20T18:44:25.274-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Radical Moderatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01563355121096154790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-28113219990441900962013-07-20T18:42:56.893-07:002013-07-20T18:42:56.893-07:00How much money did your prophet get from his follo...How much money did your prophet get from his followers as booty?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-34403704830222814102013-07-20T18:40:38.273-07:002013-07-20T18:40:38.273-07:00Sam sham looks and lies like caner. Radical modera...Sam sham looks and lies like caner. Radical moderator u get money for supporting Sam and tony. Or u giv them money. Tell truth how much money u given to Sam in ur life ? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-31949043211227460292013-07-20T18:36:22.891-07:002013-07-20T18:36:22.891-07:00Yahya - I think you posted a response to me here b...Yahya - I think you posted a response to me here but it seems to have gone. Could you repost it please?<br /><br />Thank you.Royal Sonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-24944206433768443552013-07-20T18:21:35.164-07:002013-07-20T18:21:35.164-07:00@radmod
"Really? How does one divine person ...@radmod<br /><br />"Really? How does one divine person seeing another divine person in the the Trinity contradict the trinity? Really think before you write."<br /><br />I don't know, I'm just sure Anthony wasn't sayin what you try to say here. He said that Jesus was face to face with God and made a clear distinction between Jesus and God. Let me refrase, God saw God face to face and thus fulfilled the prophesy of Moses? But there is only one God? What a strange belief... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-7542684714015433802013-07-20T18:17:46.339-07:002013-07-20T18:17:46.339-07:00Yahya Snow said...
"Anthony and I have debat...Yahya Snow said...<br /><br />"Anthony and I have debated in the past and he was really struggling in that debate. Just use the search facility on this blog and find my material on the debate topic."<br /><br />My response:<br /><br />Really where, when? How can I get a copy of this debate to listen to it?<br /><br />Are you the Muslim equivalent of Ergun Canner?Radical Moderatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01563355121096154790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-84830996912045878012013-07-20T18:05:06.952-07:002013-07-20T18:05:06.952-07:00@Royal Son
Firstly to clarify, the argument regar...@Royal Son<br /><br />Firstly to clarify, the argument regarding Deut 33:2 is not one which comes from me.<br /><br />It's late try to remind me to discuss this with you tomorrow or later on next week, inshaAllah.<br /><br />Thanks for your interest.<br /><br />PS If I forget, please just copy and paste your comment into ANY comment section so we can discuss this. I think these are important issues that are worthy of RESPECTFUL dialogue.<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Please also look into:<br /><br />http://www.thedeenshow.com/Yahya Snowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-280693614415051982013-07-20T18:01:21.647-07:002013-07-20T18:01:21.647-07:00@minoria
Thanks for acknowledging the credibility...@minoria<br /><br />Thanks for acknowledging the credibility of the Muslim claims regarding Deut 18:18<br /><br />As for the word 'spirit' it can mean 'prophet'. See this bible verse:<br /><br />"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world," <br />[1John 4/1]<br /><br />Minoria, see this site for more info on Islam:<br /><br />http://www.thedeenshow.com/<br /><br />Yahya Snowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-73218591420723497772013-07-20T18:00:56.536-07:002013-07-20T18:00:56.536-07:00Yahya: Does "An esoteric fashion" descri...Yahya: Does "An esoteric fashion" describe the manner in which Muslims should interpret scripture including their Qur'an? Could you justify this in light of Surah 3:7?<br /><br />Would you agree that the objective, unforced, plain reading of the text is that Deuteronomy 33:2 is speaking of YHWH and not Muhammad?<br /><br />You mention the principle of agency. Could you please point out who the agent is in Deuteronomy 33:2 and who the agent is representing from that same verse? I'm interested to see where you get this principle from.<br /><br />Does this principle of agency likewise occur in the Qur'an?<br /><br />Are you 100% confident as a Muslim that Deuteronomy 33:2 is the word of Allah, and that you are not committing shirk by attributing divine authorship to something that could be simply the words of men, applying the Muslim understanding that the Bible is hopelessly corrupted?<br /><br />Thank you for your responses.Royal Sonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-66399453061543222792013-07-20T17:49:32.306-07:002013-07-20T17:49:32.306-07:00@anon (the one championing Anthony Rogers)
Anthon...@anon (the one championing Anthony Rogers)<br /><br />Anthony has my email address.<br /><br />As for him 'obliterating' my arguments. Stop. Please just stop with your Rambo talk.<br /><br />Anthony and I have debated in the past and he was really struggling in that debate. Just use the search facility on this blog and find my material on the debate topic.<br /><br />The reason why he struggled is because of his stance - it's a weak stance. thus it's easy to argue against him. In that particular instance he was trying to argue for an angel (yes, an angel) to be God in the OT.<br /><br />Now you tell me if it takes Rambo style debating to knock that argument down or just one or two humble points?<br /><br />Testosterone is not required. Keep the Rambos and Arnold Schwarzenegers out of the debate arena.<br /><br />This is a problem in the debate arena, people think they are special and have puffed out chests.<br /><br /><br />Here you have Anthony struggling against me and then struggling against Ijaz ahmed on the same debate topic. His ego and blind adherence did not allow him to re-evaluate his beliefs. Why debate the guy if he is not even going to bother to ponder upon the argumentation strengths/weaknesses?<br /><br />People like you don't help because you enable people to live in delusions. Here you are championing a bloke who believes an angel (yes an angel) in the OT is God.<br /><br />As for this debate review, I simply highlighted Anthony's arguments and pointed out the flaws. <br /><br />Osama Abdallah won the debate upon reflection on this review or any thought out review.<br /><br />Invitation to Islam<br /><br />Pophet Jesus (p) taught people to do the Will of God (Mark 3:35) in order to become his brothers, mothers or sisters. A Muslim means one who submits to the Will of God. Do you want to become a brother of Jesus? If yes, become a Muslim. Now is the time.<br /><br />Learn about Islam:<br />http://www.thedeenshow.com/ Yahya Snowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.com