tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post948331463854054985..comments2023-11-09T05:50:27.936-08:00Comments on The Facts About Islam: Jesus Ordered Killing of Apostates According to Christian TheologyYahya Snowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comBlogger121125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-36678842176933196682013-08-25T15:27:41.517-07:002013-08-25T15:27:41.517-07:00@Anonymous
Thanks for the correction brother. I h...@Anonymous<br /><br />Thanks for the correction brother. I have just changed it. ThanksYahya Snowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18373097645466995642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-81389897696214191382013-08-25T00:05:00.509-07:002013-08-25T00:05:00.509-07:00May Allah's peace be upon you my brother. The ...May Allah's peace be upon you my brother. The quote regarding the Apostasy in the old testament is not Deuteronomy Chapter 16. It is actually Chapter 13. It might been observed and/or brought up, but Allahu A'alam. <br />Thank you and May Allah Guides All to the Truth. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-15726381663860368752011-08-28T08:31:38.032-07:002011-08-28T08:31:38.032-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
"..Jesus cruci...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br />"..Jesus crucifixion has more in common with Islamic “martyrdom” than pagan human sacrifice..."<br /><br />FMM, What Islamic martydom to do with human sacrifice?<br /><br /><br />Who qualify Islamic martyrdom ( شَهيد ) ?<br /><br />"Whoever is killed trying to keep his property, he is a witness-martyr; whoever is killed trying to defend his life, he is a witness-martyr"<br /><br /><br />Islam also teaches that God grants the reward of martyrdom (istishhad) to those who die in a other causes including death during childbirth, accidents such as fires and drownings, and epidemic diseases such as the plague, an earthquake.<br /><br />But regardless of how death occurred, muslims believe that the reward of martyrdom is contingent upon proper belief, sincerity, perseverance and thankfulness to God.<br /><br />Also that there are some sins that martyrdom does not expiate but only repentance (tawba), such as disbelief and hypocrisy, impiety to parents, and betrayal of trusts; and deficient states that martyrdom does not compensate but only repayment or pardon, such as debts.<br /><br />(narrated by Ibn `Asakir Sahih Ibn Hibban, Sa`id ibn Zayd Abu Hurayra , Abd Allah ibn `Amr ibn al-`As in Muslim, al-Nasa'i, and al-Tirmidhi, Ibn `Abbas by Ibn Majah, and from Abu Hurayra and Anas by al-Khara'iti)<br /><br /><br />But there is no such a thing a concept of "giving up one life" to God in Islam.<br /><br />O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you. (Q 4:29)<br /><br />WasaslamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-76322174509915543822011-08-28T08:27:58.664-07:002011-08-28T08:27:58.664-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
"..When did I...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br /><br />"..When did I say anything about human sacrifice? We were talking about federalism, The concept that a federal head can be held responsible for the actions of his people.."<br /><br /><br />Read again through the whole thread, it is about The mosaic law, original sin, human sacrifice, salvation. You dragged to the point of Federalism irrelevance. What is it with you? Did the scripture make any mention of this?<br /><br />You tend to divert argument by bringing forward a faith conviction dressed up with prooftexting vague passages.<br /><br /><br />Again Ezekiel (p) 18 summarize the fundamental scriptural principle: A righteous person cannot die vicariously for the sins of the wicked.<br /><br />This idea that the innocent can suffer to atone for the sins of the wicked is pagan influenced.<br /><br />In Ezekiel 18:20-23 the prophet declares that true repentance alone washes the penitent clean of all iniquities.<br /><br />Every one of his sins are forgiveness in Heaven. This chapter is so clear and unambiguous, unlike your federalism sort of stuff. There can be no other reading of these passages. <br /><br />Blood-sacrifices or the veneration of a crucified messiah not mentioned or even hinted throughout Ezekiel’s thorough and inspiring discourse on sin and atonement.<br /><br />Throughout Old Testament warn agaisnt human sacrifices. When Moses (p) offered to have his name removed from the Torah in exchange for the sin that the Jewish people had committed with the Golden Calf, the Almighty abruptly refused Moses’ offer (Exodus 32:31-33)<br /><br />Moses, who was righteous could not suffer vicariously for the sin of the nation. Rather, only the soul that sinned would endure judgment.<br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-56201754921832446832011-08-28T06:47:34.310-07:002011-08-28T06:47:34.310-07:00Eric said,
I dont believe those people who are sc...Eric said,<br /><br />I dont believe those people who are scholars in the Hebrew Bible and do not evangelistic agenda have failed to recognize the worship of almighty God / Jehovah through the form of human sacrifice.<br /><br /><br /><br />I say,<br /><br /><br /><br />When did I say anything about human sacrifice? We were talking about federalism, The concept that a federal head can be held responsible for the actions of his people.<br /><br />This seems to be a pattern with you instead of interacting with what I’m actually saying you choose to interact with what you think I am implying. <br /><br />This might be the reason you missed so much when you read the bible all those years ago. I suggest you try and read it again and this time let it interrupt itself.<br /><br />You say,<br /><br /> <br />The only way I come to understand the theology of Human sacrifice and blood communion it has to be read using the context using pagan mythology as a guide. <br /><br /><br />I say,<br /><br />There is your problem you are importing the concept of pagan human sacrifice into your understanding of the Bible. Why not try ant let the Bible speak for itself. <br /><br /><br />Jesus crucifixion has more in common with Islamic “martyrdom” than pagan human sacrifice.<br /><br />The Islamic martyr gives up his life in obedience to Allah. <br /><br />Jesus gave up his life in obedience to the Father<br /><br /><br />The difference is that in Islam the martyr dies for selfish reasons to gain his own salvation.<br /><br />Because Jesus is with out sin of his own and serves as the covenant head for his people he is able to give up his life for others.<br /><br /><br /><br />It’s that simple <br /><br /><br />PeaceFifth Monarchy Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490334525087698221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-41229026599562866842011-08-27T20:42:53.811-07:002011-08-27T20:42:53.811-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
"...Only someo...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br />"...Only someone who had never looked at the book in question would believe such a thing <br /><br />This is exactly why I asked you to agree to actually read the prophets instead of just relying on quote mining from Islamic sources.."<br /><br /><br />I dont know about you but I read Bible (OT/Nt) including the prophets when I was in my teen, it has been more than 25 years now. I thought tried to be sincere when I did that. <br /><br />I did not just rely on Islamic sources, and I dont believe those people who are scholars in the Hebrew Bible and do not evangelistic agenda have failed to recognize the worship of almighty God / Jehovah through the form of human sacrifice.<br /><br />Why would the almighty God who forbid the human sacrifice and punish those when they did, then turn right around and demand that Israel worship Himself as the very thing (a human sacrifice) that he was so against (Deuteronomy 12:31, Leviticus 18:21, Leviticus 20:2-4, Jeremiah 32:34-35) ?<br /><br /><br />FMM why cant you accept simple fact that the scripture never indicate a human sacrifice of the coming end-of-days messiah. <br /><br />The only way I come to understand the theology of Human sacrifice and blood communion it has to be read using the context using pagan mythology as a guide. <br /><br />Osiris-Dionysus was a mythical god that died and rose on the third day after which a ritual celebration meal of bread and wine symbolized his body and blood.<br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-38023635527451960082011-08-27T08:16:29.141-07:002011-08-27T08:16:29.141-07:00eric said,
No this belief (Federalism) cannot be ...eric said,<br /><br />No this belief (Federalism) cannot be validated from within the Hebrew Bible. Therefore this has no place in true revelation of God.<br /><br />I say,<br /><br />How can you say that with a strait face? <br /><br />It would be like me saying that the principle of the unity of God is not validated from within the Quran.<br /><br />Only someone who had never looked at the book in question would believe such a thing <br /><br />This is exactly why I asked you to agree to actually read the prophets instead of just relying on quote mining from Islamic sources. <br /><br /><br />I can give you dozens of examples from scripture of God metering out his justice according to the principle of federalism. You can’t read a single book with out seeing it. <br /><br />Would you like me to bury you in texts?<br /><br />Here is the literaly a random passage that I just happened to be reading this very morining.<br /><br />quote: <br /><br /> Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. And David sought the face of the LORD. And the LORD said, "There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death." <br /><br /> So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Now the Gibeonites were not of the people of Israel but of the remnant of the Amorites. Although the people of Israel had sworn to spare them, Saul had sought to strike them down in his zeal for the people of Israel and Judah. <br /><br />And David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? And how shall I make atonement, that you may bless the heritage of the LORD?" The Gibeonites said to him, "It is not a matter of silver or gold between us and Saul or his house; neither is it for us to put any man to death in Israel." And he said, "What do you say that I shall do for you?" <br /><br />They said to the king, "The man who consumed us and planned to destroy us, so that we should have no place in all the territory of Israel, let seven of his sons be given to us, so that we may hang them before the LORD at Gibeah of Saul, the chosen of the LORD." And the king said, "I will give them."------------- <br /><br />--------------They hanged them on the mountain before the LORD, and the seven of them perished together. They were put to death in the first days of harvest, at the beginning of barley harvest. <br /><br /> --------------And he brought up from there the bones of Saul and the bones of his son Jonathan; and they gathered the bones of those who were hanged. And they buried the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan in the land of Benjamin in Zela, in the tomb of Kish his father. And they did all that the king commanded. <br /><br /><br />And after that God responded to the plea for the land. <br />(2 Samuel 21:1-14)<br /><br />end quote:<br /><br />You find this sort of thing everywhere in the Bible. <br /><br />If you would honnor the Prophets by actually reading them. This would not even be an issue. <br /><br />peaceFifth Monarchy Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490334525087698221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-35548608722881333802011-08-26T19:33:45.584-07:002011-08-26T19:33:45.584-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
"...Exactly!!!...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br />"...Exactly!!!!!!!<br /><br />If you only knew what you had just said,..."<br /><br /><br />Israel is God’s son (Hosea 11:1)<br />David is God’s son (Psalm 2:7)<br /><br />Yes. Thank you for pointing out that the term "son of God" in not in the familial Godship sense but merely enjoyed a special relationship to God.<br /><br /><br />Muslims are obliged to make an effort to maintain continuous relationship to God. To seek knowledge and love. <br /><br />God in the Qur'an said "Whoever acts righteously, whether male or female, and is a believer, We will surely give him life with a good life, and We will surely give them their reward in accordance with the best of what they used to do..." (Q 16:97)<br /><br />Federalism is just Calvinist theological framework. A difficult way trying to excape the problematic "sacrificial" death of Jesus (p) on the cross.<br /><br />No this belief cannot be validated from within the Hebrew Bible. Therefore this has no place in true revelation of God.<br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-63591469110528853702011-08-26T15:32:27.695-07:002011-08-26T15:32:27.695-07:00Eric,
I'm real busy right now but I had to re...Eric,<br /><br />I'm real busy right now but I had to respond to this one with out delay, <br /><br /><br />You say,<br /><br /><br />Psalms tell story of David (p) speaking of himself and the Jewish people<br /><br /><br /><br />and,<br /><br /><br />Isaiah 41:14 - Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel;<br />I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of<br />Israel.<br /><br />Exactly!!!!!!!<br /><br />If you only knew what you had just said,<br /><br /><br />The link between Israel and her true King is so strong that the King and his people are at times indistinguishable.<br /><br />Israel is a worm<br />David is a worm<br /><br /><br />Israel is God’s servant (Isaiah 44:1)<br />David is God’s servant ( Isaiah 37:35)<br /><br />Israel is God’s son (Hosea 11:1)<br />David is God’s son (Psalm 2:7)<br /><br />Israel is the apple of God’s eye (Deuteronomy 32:10) <br />David is the apple of God’s eye (Psalm 17:8)<br /><br />Israel receives an everlasting kingdom (Daniel 7:18)<br />when the Messiah receives an everlasting kingdom (Daniel 7:14) <br /><br />Etc etc etc. <br /> <br />The Messiah is the true Israel as well as the new David. <br /><br />In the eyes of God The true King and his people are viewed as if they were the same entity.<br /><br />this is federalism....... <br /><br />That is what Christianity and the new covenant is all about.<br /><br />amen and amen<br /><br /><br />I'll get to the rest of your comments later. <br /><br />peaceFifth Monarchy Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490334525087698221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-15284280185854136252011-08-26T06:32:27.883-07:002011-08-26T06:32:27.883-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
"...exactly !!...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br />"...exactly !!!!!! ..."<br /><br /><br />Yes exactly.<br /><br /><br />Isaiah 41:14 - Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel;<br />I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of<br />Israel.<br /><br /><br />David (p) consistently uses an animal motif to describe his adversaries -<br />repeated on many other occasions (e.g., Ps 17:11,12, 35:17, 59:2-7,15).<br /><br /><br />So, the Jewish people are likened to a worm, and the comparison here<br />indicates that David was writing about the plight of the Jew - he was not writing prophecised anything about Jesus (p) cruci"fiction" <br /><br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-61560690255334590892011-08-26T06:28:47.668-07:002011-08-26T06:28:47.668-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
"..Are you act...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br />"..Are you actually implying that you do not know that the universal expectation of first century (and modern) Jews is that the Messiah will be a new David?<br /><br />It is not possible for a Psalm of David to not be about the Messiah in some way.."<br /><br /><br />Psalms tell story of David (p) speaking of himself and the Jewish people<br /><br />This is a historical psalm rather than a messianic one. <br /><br />WOW!<br /><br />You which failed to recognized this simple message. Do you actually ever read the verses?<br /><br /><br />It is your theology which led it to develop such understanding (the crucifiction scneario) different from previous revelation <br /><br />You also try to make mulims believe that atonement refers to as human sacrifice.<br /><br />By whose authorithy? The Bible clearly states that human sacrifice is an abomination in the sight of God (Lev. 18:21, 20:2-5, Deu. 12:31, Jer. 32:34-35), <br /><br />Yes, the Mosaic law prescribes animal sacrifices for ritual worship (as we muslims to this day also still commemorate prophet Abraham (p) ram sacrifice (قربان). <br /><br /><br />According to the scriptures, prophet Abraham (p) was about to sacrifice his son when a voice from heaven stopped him and allowed him to sacrifice a ram instead as human sacrifice is an abomination in the sight of God. Alhamdulillah<br /><br />Genensis 22:<br />http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0122.htm#8<br /><br />Al Qurān Al Karīm<br />http://quran.com/37/99-113<br /><br /><br />You keep saying that but this is viewed as supporting the idea of vicarious atonement. It is you who must have context imposed on them from the outside. <br /><br /><br />Again I cited again (Eze. 18:20) when Ezekiel (p) speaks out against the idea of vicarious atonement, where one person can suffer punishment for another person's sin: <br /><br />"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him"<br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-8292622671455599142011-08-26T06:24:24.704-07:002011-08-26T06:24:24.704-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
"...Wow
All ...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br />"...Wow <br /><br />All this discussion and you still can't bring your self to post the whole passage .."<br /><br /><br /><br />Psalm 51 tell us how God does not spurn a broken and contrite heart. <br /><br /><br />The last verses 20–21 is only possible after proper contrition and intervention by God, as seen in the entire psalm. They want to sacrifice animals again, although David knew that this was not what God really wanted. Sacrificing animals only made God happy if the people were sorry for their sins.<br /><br /><br />Interesting to know that some commentary think that verses 20 and 21 came as a later edition and the verses are probably not by David.<br /><br />WOW!<br /><br /><br />Time and time again, the prophets remind us that the path to God is repentance. Some of the scriptural references are: Isaiah 55:7, Ezekiel 18:21-23, 33:10-20, and the book of Jonah. <br /><br />None of these passages say a word about the “necessity” of blood-sacrifice in order for God to grant forgiveness.<br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-6412589148531762212011-08-25T14:23:48.944-07:002011-08-25T14:23:48.944-07:00you say,
I qooted again to make it easy for you:
...you say,<br /><br />I qooted again to make it easy for you:<br /><br />I say,<br /><br /><br />Wow <br /><br />All this discussion and you still can't bring your self to post the whole passage <br /><br />I’m genuinely curious <br /><br />Is this because you are unable to see the verses that follow? <br /><br />You say,<br /><br />This is about David <br /><br />I say,<br /><br />again wow <br /><br /><br />Are you actually implying that you do not know that the universal expectation of first century (and modern) Jews is that the Messiah will be a new David?<br /><br /> It is not possible for a Psalm of David to not be about the Messiah in some way. <br /><br />"My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. <br />(Ezekiel 37:24)<br /><br />But they shall serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them. <br />(Jeremiah 30:9)<br /><br /><br />Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God, and David their king, and they shall come in fear to the LORD and to his goodness in the latter days. <br />(Hosea 3:5)<br /><br />etc etc etc<br /><br />you say,<br /><br />He calls himself a worm<br /><br />I say,<br /><br />exactly !!!!!! <br /><br />quote: <br /><br /> For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. <br />(Isaiah 53:2-5)<br /><br />end quote:<br /><br />you say,<br /><br />your understanding of psalms 22 propechies the crucifction is out of theme with the entire psalm and the rest of the Hebrew Bible.<br /><br />I say,<br /><br />It's possible that you don't understand what "context" means.<br /><br /> I think this is because unlike genuine revelation passages from the Quran must have context imposed on them from the outside. <br /> <br /> <br />I'd love to help you understand the concept as it relates to God's word. It's not hard.<br /><br />I challenge you to read one of the books of the prophets in it’s entirety (your choice) and then we can discuss what it’s about. Instead of just cherry picking a verse here and there to try and support a position.<br /><br />let me know if your game. <br /><br /><br />peaceFifth Monarchy Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490334525087698221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-40892935793718197442011-08-24T19:47:04.828-07:002011-08-24T19:47:04.828-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
"..You say,
...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br />"..You say,<br /><br /><br />That passage confirm that Sins can be "erased" through the power of repentance.<br /><br />I say,<br /><br />what passage are you reading? It is definitely not Psalm 51..."<br /><br />Yes, It is Psalms 51<br /><br />I qooted again to make it easy for you:<br /><br />18 For Thou delightest not in sacrifice, else would I give it; Thou hast no pleasure in burnt-offering.<br /><br />19 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; {N}<br />a broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.<br /><br />It is you that prooftexting the Torah to make the impression that blood is the only means of wash away sin.<br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-278281811948452832011-08-24T19:11:02.243-07:002011-08-24T19:11:02.243-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
"...Of course...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br /><br />"...Of course he does the abandonment was part of the punishment due our sin. <br /><br />The worst suffering of Jesus was not physical but mental. <br /><br />This saying of Jesus is actually part of one of the clearest prophecies of the crucifixion in the OT (psalm 22) . <br /><br />It begins with the father’s abandonment (verse 1) and ends with he father’s praise of the afflicted one (verse 24) <br /><br />Check it out sometime. It should blow your mind ..."<br /><br /><br />No. This isn't a prophecy about crucifiction. This is about David (p) speaks out his own pain, anguish, and longing as he remained a fugitive from his enemies.<br /><br />David (p) never consider himself someone who can provide salvation. He calls himself a worm (Ps 22:7) whose only salvation can come from God Almighty.<br /><br />Besides if you argue about the context, your understanding of psalms 22 propechies the crucifction is out of theme with the entire psalm and the rest of the Hebrew Bible.<br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-31566701157295245182011-08-24T17:41:43.004-07:002011-08-24T17:41:43.004-07:00you said,
I also give a couple more of illustrati...you said,<br /><br />I also give a couple more of illustrations from the same source, have you forgotten that also? <br /><br />I say, <br /><br />No but when someone is proof texting God's word I find it to be better to deal with one passage at a time to make sure the true understanding for each is made clear <br /><br />I’ll give a quick hint about where we will go when you deal with the context of the first text.<br /><br />I Samuel 15:22 Is part of a story in which God commanded that everything in the territory of the Amalekites be killed but the Children of Israel disobeyed and instead tried to offer the plunder as sacrifice completly contary to the law as layed down by Moses. <br /><br />Jeremiah 36:3 is about repentance <br /><br />You must repent in order to be forgiven. But this says nothing about on what basis God grants forgiveness.<br /><br /> You must write a check to pay the mortgage but the act of writing does not magically put the funds in your account. <br /><br />Ezekiel 33 is a parallel text to Ezekiel 18 and we’ve already discussed the fact that these passages simply say that if you repent you will be forgiven.<br /><br />The don’t say that you can repent and they don’t say on what basis God will grant forgiveness,<br /><br /><br /><br /> I will love to look at each of these passages with you. Studying God’s word is my favorite thing but it’s better if we do it one passage in context at a time.<br /><br />PeaceFifth Monarchy Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490334525087698221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-44760907891252832822011-08-24T17:21:09.942-07:002011-08-24T17:21:09.942-07:00You said,
I did posted the link didn’t I?
I say,...You said,<br /><br />I did posted the link didn’t I?<br /><br />I say,<br /><br />You have yet to comment on the verses that follow the one you posted. Why is that?<br /><br />You say,<br /><br />That passage confirm that Sins can be "erased" through the power of repentance.<br /><br />I say,<br /><br />what passage are you reading? It is definitely not Psalm 51. <br /><br />Psalm 51 is a prayer for a clean heart (verse 10) <br /><br />It makes the point that God delights in atoning bloody sacrifice (verse 19 twenty one in your version) but also graciously provides the repentant attitude that makes the sacrifice effectual.<br /><br />peaceFifth Monarchy Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490334525087698221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-11137938791189281022011-08-24T16:58:48.429-07:002011-08-24T16:58:48.429-07:00You say,
Not only I can’t see it but absurd this ...You say,<br /><br />Not only I can’t see it but absurd this seems to be! <br /><br />I say,<br /><br />Of course you think it's absurd. <br /><br />If it made sense to you I would be concerend I was not explaining it correctly? <br /><br />Quote:<br /><br /> <br />For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. <br />(1 Corinthians 1:18)<br /><br /><br />End quote:<br /><br />You say,<br /><br />If Jesus (p)' sole purpose for coming into the world is said to have been to suffer and die for the sins of others. So when this moment finally arrived, he accuses God of abandoning him?! <br /><br />I say,<br /><br />Of course he does the abandonment was part of the punishment due our sin. <br /><br />The worst suffering of Jesus was not physical but mental. <br /><br />This saying of Jesus is actually part of one of the clearest prophecies of the crucifixion in the OT (psalm 22) . <br /><br />It begins with the father’s abandonment (verse 1) and ends with he father’s praise of the afflicted one (verse 24) <br /><br />Check it out sometime. It should blow your mind <br /><br /><br />PeaceFifth Monarchy Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490334525087698221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-43602681483627897952011-08-24T16:04:31.124-07:002011-08-24T16:04:31.124-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
“..What is more imp...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br />“..What is more important is you for some reason have failed to read the very next verses. I take this is evidence that you have not actually read the text and are instead just posting the fruits of someone else’s labor. <br /><br />Why don’t you post or link to the entire psalm in your version so we could look at it in context together...”<br /><br />I did posted the link didn’t I? you can read the whole English text along with the Hebrew text<br />http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2651.htm<br /><br />That passage confirm that Sins can be "erased" through the power of repentance.<br /><br />I also give a couple more of illustrations from the same source, have you forgotten that also? <br /><br />I Samuel 15:22<br /><br />And Samuel said: "Does the Lord delight as much in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obedience to the voice of the Lord? Behold, obedience is better than any sacrifice, and to comply [is better] than the fat of rams."<br /><br />Jeremiah 36:3<br /><br />Perhaps the House of Judah will hear all the evil I [God] intend to do to them, so that everyone may turn from his evil way and I may forgive their iniquity and sin.<br /><br />Ezekiel 33:11<br /><br />"As I live," says the Lord, God, "I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn, turn from your evil ways, for why should you die, O House of Israel?"<br /><br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-42010863534499488552011-08-24T15:34:10.224-07:002011-08-24T15:34:10.224-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
:..Your discription...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br />:..Your discription of a week and alone Jesus is the whole point.<br /><br />What you think is the disgraceful story of Jesus being defeated by death is actually the greatest victory the world has ever seen.<br /><br />It is trully a pitty you can't see this. …”<br /><br />Not only I can’t see it but absurd this seems to be! <br /><br />If Jesus (p)' sole purpose for coming into the world is said to have been to suffer and die for the sins of others. So when this moment finally arrived, he accuses God of abandoning him?! <br /><br />Jesus (p) evidently feared death by crucifixion.<br /><br />Jesus (p)cried on the cross: <br /><br />About the ninth hour Jesus (p) cried out with a loud voice: "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is: "My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46)<br /><br />Although the New Testament translates "sabachthani" as "forsaken me" (echoing Psalms 22:2), it means *slaughtering me* <br /><br />Compare:<br /><br />...then you shall slaughter [sabachta] of your herd and of your flock.... (Deuteronomy 12:21)<br /><br />In other words, Jesus (p) screamed out, "My God, my God, why are You slaughtering me?"<br /><br />Jesus (p) was shocked that God was actually letting him die!<br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-86831542955137096432011-08-24T15:31:38.680-07:002011-08-24T15:31:38.680-07:00eric said,
In this digital age, you still cannot ...eric said,<br /><br />In this digital age, you still cannot accept an online version as the same as printed version? <br /><br />I say,<br /><br />I have no problem with online sources as long as you read them. <br /><br />The problem is your source is calling verse 17 verse 19. This is because apparently you are using a version that has an obscure system for delaminating the text. One that is not used by most English readers. <br /><br />What is more important is you for some reason have failed to read the very next verses. I take this is evidence that you have not actually read the text and are instead just posting the fruits of someone else’s labor. <br /><br />Why don’t you post or link to the entire psalm in your version so we could look at it in context together. <br /><br /><br />You said,<br /><br /><br />• Sins can be forgiven through sincere repentance and a firm resolution never to repeat them. <br /><br />You say,<br /><br />Can you define repentance for me. I’m not sure you know what the word means.<br /><br />You say<br /><br /> Sincere confessionary repentant prayer is the primary biblical prescription for obtaining atonement <br /><br />I say<br /><br />Do you understand what atonement means? <br /><br />The Hebrew word is used over 100 times in the OT I know of no occasion in which repentance is the means by which atonement is made. <br /><br /> Please provide a verse that implies in anyway what you are saying. Hint… it would help if it contained the word "atonement" <br /><br /> <br /><br />You say,<br /><br />The form of sacrifices is only of animal sacrifice and only were offered in the Temple.<br /><br /><br />I say,<br /><br />This conversation began with an explanation of the difference between the OC types and shadows and the NC reality. <br /><br />Have you already forgot.<br /><br />You say,<br /><br /> Why do you think Muslims or others will accept an exegesis from a evangelical apologetic site?<br /><br /><br />I don’t expect you to accept anyone’s exegesis I expect you to do exegesis for yourself. So far all you’ve done is proof text <br /><br />If you disagree with what was presented please explain why and support your opinion with exegesis.<br /><br />If the text means what you claim it does you should be able to do this easily.<br /><br />peaceFifth Monarchy Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490334525087698221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-29926808527712014232011-08-24T15:27:23.198-07:002011-08-24T15:27:23.198-07:00lobo says,
During the days of Jesus' life on ...lobo says,<br /><br />During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission (Heb. 5:7).<br /><br />I say,<br /><br />Jesus was saved from death it's called the Resurrection. <br /><br />This is exactly what the passage I posted yesterday said. <br /><br />Jesus obeyed God glorified him <br /><br />Did you not read it?<br /><br />quote: <br /><br /> he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. <br />(Philippians 2:8b-11)<br /><br />end quote:<br /><br />By the way I guess eric's evil super scribes incompetently missed this passage as well.<br /><br />PeaceFifth Monarchy Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490334525087698221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-85887563179987049592011-08-24T15:20:41.605-07:002011-08-24T15:20:41.605-07:00you say,
Seems like the scribes were trying to in...you say,<br /><br />Seems like the scribes were trying to induce the impression that Jesus (p) was not dragged to the cross against his will<br /><br />I say,<br /><br />I say,<br /><br />I can’t believe the lengths to which you conspiracy theorists will go. <br /><br />If evil scribes wanted to remove reference to Jesus prayer in Gethsemane you would think they would just leave it out but no these sneaky scribes just abbreviated the account a little but left all the so called objectionable material intact. <br /><br />Then they somehow managed to destroy all the evidence of their incompetent attempt at changing the scripture from all the copies of the Gospels in all the churches all over the Roman empire all the while hiding from the authorities.<br /><br />The mind boggles <br /><br />peaceFifth Monarchy Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490334525087698221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-6228091884378543042011-08-24T13:09:35.447-07:002011-08-24T13:09:35.447-07:00FMM,
There are a few nuggets to be gleaned from t...FMM,<br /><br />There are a few nuggets to be gleaned from the NT after all:<br /><br />During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission (Heb. 5:7).el Lobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14098361439605791982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-248234931266550822.post-428620905088330802011-08-24T11:25:28.396-07:002011-08-24T11:25:28.396-07:00Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
“…(Matthew 26:39b)...Bismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm<br /><br /><br />“…(Matthew 26:39b) "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will."<br /><br /><br />(Matthew 26:42) Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, "My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, your will be done."<br /><br />End quote:<br /><br />The Father himself could not think of a way for sins to be forgiven with out an atonement…”<br /><br /><br />Well Mark account says differently (Mark 14:39) while Luke says nothing..<br /><br />Seems like the scribes were trying to induce the impression that Jesus (p) was not dragged to the cross against his will<br /><br />WassalamErik F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17137683935653473339noreply@blogger.com