You may recall, we rebuked two Answering Islam authors (David Wood and Sam Shamoun) for propagating the thighing hoax on separate occasions – Mr. Shamoun was peddling these lies 2-3 years ago whilst Mr. Wood relatively recently reinvented ‘dumb and dumber’ by picking up on the SAME hoax despite his colleague being rebuked into silence years prior. The truth and accuracy are no obstacles for folk from Answering Islam.
Lunacy, desperate lunacy…
A couple of months ago one of their financial backers (Radical Moderate) called in to the ‘Jesus or Muhammad’ (ABN) show and quizzed them on our rebuke at the behest of a commenter on this blog (Abdul).
Sam Shamoun and David Wood were clearly under pressure in a live situation under the careful watch of a generally Islamophobic Christian audience. This pressure was too much to bear for SamShamoun as he circumnavigated the obvious and rightful action (apologizing for his past promotion of lies) in favour of a full frontal attack which amounted to little other than hot air – hot air with the whiff of dishonesty.
In short he persisted with his proven lie by insisting he was right and (wrongly) repeated ‘Muhammad did thigh Aisha’. To prop up his bout of desperate lunacy he claimed to have a ‘massive Arabic file’ saved on his computer. Huh?
Lunacy: Answering Islam Propagating Malicious Falsehoods
If the video does not play please view the same upload here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUcjw7bQbP8
Thighing Hoax
For those who are still unaware, the claim that Prophet Muhammad ‘thighed’ Aisha (Aishah) is a hoax (lie).
This malicious claim arose from a Christian website in the form of a ‘fatwa’. As previously noted Saudi scholars have denounced this ‘fatwa’ as a lie and rejected the claim that Muhammad performed this act.
Muhaddith.org offered a fine synopsis of this internet hoax:
The lie does not cite any hadith, but merely repeats a falsified fatwa against Saudi scholars who denied ever having made it, as declared on their website, and they added "Our Prophet prohibits even seclusion with a fiancée."
Therefore, the only sexual acts with prepubescent girls were actually just fantasized in the perverted imagination of the person fabricating the lie in his sick mind about “thighing” and “rubbing” repeatedly a 6 year old girl.
Evidence, what is evidence?
Answering Islam have had years to study and realize that a claim of Prophet Muhammad performing any action can only be backed up by a narration or a Quranic Verse. Neither narration nor a Quranic Verse supports their fabrications. Why do they still persist with such lies then?
Why Answering Islam is not coming clean…
Perhaps Mr. Shamoun’s (and Mr. Wood’s?) donations and pride keep him from admitting he presented lies and has nothing evidential. He has had 2-3 years to present his material, yet he has not presented anything. That’s to say, he knows he has nothing. He knows this but dupes the Christian caller (and audience) into thinking he has something to support his falsifications.
Answering Islam’s Sam Shamoun (their unappealing version of Fox Mulder) claims he has a ‘massive Arabic file’ and needs to get it ‘translated’. As astutely mentioned in the video, if he is yet to have it translated then he is appealing to something which he has not even digested nor even read. Shear and unadulterated lunacy!
Moreover and more importantly, Mr. Shamoun messaged me in December of 2010 concerning this file. He has had months/years to produce it yet to this day has not presented ANY of this secret ‘file’. I’m beginning to suspect he either has no secret file and is simply lying or knows the secret file is insubstantial and nonsensical to the extent that his charlatanry will be laughably exposed if he did unleash this secret ‘file’?
The truth is, he has nothing and the months/years of waiting proves it.
David Wood desperate + fobbing off a loyal financial donor
In the clip, Mr. Shamoun is put on the spot by his eager colleague Mr. Wood as he suggests the mysterious secret files should be presented on next month’s ABN ‘Jesus or Muhammad’ show but Mr. Shamoun dismisses this suggestion. Why? It’s obvious why; he has nothing and was simply fobbing the audience off in an effort to avoid apologizing for his past indiscretions (i.e. gullibly peddling lies).
Why was Mr. Wood so desperate to have the secret files put on show? Well, this man went onto the Google machine and found the SAME lies and ran with them as the charlatan he is. We rebuked him spectacularly and I guess his audience realized he is not the self-styled expert on Islam as he would want folk to believe – not exactly the ideal ingredient when you want folk to offer financial support to fund your lifestyle and activities, is it?
Finally, spare a thought for the betrayed and used Christians. The chap phoning into the show is a man whom I am familiar with, he has spent a number of dollars in funding Mr. Shamoun and Mr. Wood as well as offering time and other forms of support, yet he was simply fobbed off by Answering Islam’s Sam Shamoun via his ‘call my bluff’ style charade. A dishonest charade by anybody’s standard. I truly hope he asks for his cash back and resists their Wood’s/Shamoun’s future pleas for support; financial or otherwise. Talk about betraying and deceiving one of your own!
To this man, I invite you (as well as all concerned) to a relationship with the God whom Jesus worshipped (Allah). Would you like that? If yes, come to Islam and strive to become a brother of Jesus (Mark 3:35)
Peace be upon all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah. May Allah keep us secure against internet hoaxes/distortions and guide us all. Ameen.
Related
Tough Theological Questions Unanswered by the AnsweringIslam Crew
Mufakhathat - Thighing?
Feedback: yahyasnow@hotmail.com
103 comments:
You said that because Shamoun didn't have the Arabic material on thighing translated yet he must not have digested it or read it. But that doesn't follow since he obviously had his Arabic friends read it to him. Reading can be done quickly, translating is another story. So here are some tips for your blog:
1.) Study logic and logical fallacies so you don't make a fool out of yourself.
2.) Make sure to carefully read your blogs over and over before posting so that you don't make a fool of yourself.
To Anonymous
All what you said can be defined as blah blah blah. But question still is - WHERE IS FACTS?
Snowman Snowman Snowman. You're a broken record lol.
What I find interesting, of all the hours and hours of Sam and David appearing on Jesus or Mohamed over the YEARS this is all you have. LOL
Really man, lets say that they were mistaken, I'm not saying they where I have actually heard SHIA's on PT talk about this. But lets just say for argument sake that they are mistaken. Doesn't change the fact that this is all you have from hours of appearance over the years.
SAD SAD SAD, all this time and effort of repeating yourself on the same thing and you have never ever called into the show.
Well looks like I will have to step up my financial support :)
To Radical
Is it true that when someone calls to the show ABN earns some money?
To Radical Moderate.
Again - All what you said can be defined as blah blah blah. But question still there - WHERE IS THE FACTS?
Crazy Christians!!!
That Sam Shamoun dude is such a retard, the dummies trying to defend that bozo are worse than retards.
GOOD VIDEO MR SNOW. KEEP EXPOSING THE ENEMIES OF TRUTH AND LOVE.
Why these dumb missionary Christians always causing troubles?
Oh hey everyone, I too have a massive file showing Sam Shamoun is actually a whale in real life, disguised as a human being (Men in Black style), but you know what, I don't need to show you the proof... just take my word for it.
*This is what Sam Shamoun is doing*
M. R.,
Are you saying that a likeness of a human being was cast on a whale to deceive everyone into thinking that a person named Sam Shamoun exists?
Anonymous said...
To Radical
Is it true that when someone calls to the show ABN earns some money?
yes we get paid 100 dollars for every call.
Radical Moderate:
When I called last year, they called me back the next day, asking me if I would call again looool . I have never seen such cheap TV station.
I just made a donation to ABN in your honor, SnowMan ;)
I'm talking with a couple friends and we are planning every time you write one of these article's trying to slander Sam Shamoun, David Wood, ABN, etc., that we will make a cash donation in your honor.
Wait a minute, I need to understand. Is the christian objection about Aicha RA being 6 year old (complete lie), or is it for the sexual act itself? Christians still have some false heritage from Gnosticism, Christians need to realize that Sex is actually healthy, and not inherently bad, like Gnostics used to believe. A psychologist can help.
okay i've been asking this around i never get a complete answer. where in the old testament does it say God can enter his creation, or reincarnate as a man?
1MoreMuslim: "Christians need to realize that Sex is actually healthy, and not inherently bad...A psychologist can help."
Sex within the confines of marriage in healthy and a blessing from God. However, if you think a 50 year old man having sex with a little girl of 9 that plays with dolls is healthy, then it's obvious that you are the one that needs a psychologist.
P.S.- Wherever it is that you live, please stay away from the children there.
To Anonymous:
You didn't answer my question: Is it the age of Aisha that poses you problem , or the sexual act described?
It seems like You disagree with Sam Shamoun, your problem is with the age of consent 14 century ago ? Am I right? In that case , you don't need a psychologist , a historian may help you. You need to read your history buddy. The age of consent was 7 year old in some states in USA, 200 years ago. I am fed with teaching Americans their history. The Jesus that you believe in, was a practicing Jew, go read how old Jewish girls are pushed to marriage in that time.
Go ask your neighbour, what is more scaring to his children, A muslim Imam or a priest?
1MoreMuslim,
You conveniently ignored the fact that this isn't an issue about the past. It is an issue about today because you Muslims go around copying Muhammad as the "perfect example" for all time. My problem isn't with the norms of behavior in the past, it is with you MuhammoBots being religiously bound from prohibiting the filthy things Muhammad did (like sex with 9 year old girls).
I guess your "Allah" didn't realize that by picking Muhammad and telling all of you to copy his behavior forever, he would be causing the untold suffering of little girls with permanently damaged reproductive organs, and death during childbirth due to their underdeveloped bodies (not to mention the psychological damage).
I stick with my previous statement that in whatever country you live in, you should stay away from children. Anyone whose belief system prevents them from actively condemning the practice of an adult man having sex with a 9 year old child is a threat to child welfare.
@1millimeter
You said...
" Is it the age of Aisha that poses you problem , or the sexual act described?"
I can only speak for me but I would have to say both and neither.
It is neither because I understand that Mohamed was a man of his time and location. He lived in the 7th century of Pagan Arabia. In this society it was the social norm for older men to marry and have sex with pre pubescent girls. So looking through the lens of history I see nothing wrong with what he did, in his own culture in his own time.
The problem I have is that he took this 7th century cultural norm and made it the cultural and social norm for anyone in any time in any place.
But the biggest problems I have is with Muslims like your self, Pretty in Pink, and Yahay Snow.
The snowman would have no problem gettnig his hands on a 9 year old bride if it was legal in the UK, Pretty in Pink, in between his homosexual fantasies with David Wood and Nabeel Qureshi wishes he could get some 9 year old farj, and you. Well the fact that you have to ask the question tells me where your moral compass lies.
But what do you expect from someone who said on a previous post that he "would prefer a propagandist," over sound arguments, and logic and reason.
The poor decision of "Allah" telling you all to copy Muhammad leads to nonsense like this:
"Banning child marriage will cause challenging the marriage of the holy prophet of Islam, who also married minor Ayesha, when she was just eight years old. The new law [seeking to ban child marriages] initiated by the current government [of Bangladesh] will put the moral character of the prophet into controversy and challenge. Islam permits child marriage and it will not be tolerated if any ruler will ever try to touch this issue in the name of giving more rights to women."[*] -Mufti Fazlul Haque Amini
No no...we can't ban child marriage no matter how much damage it causes. That would call into question the character of Muhammad, and we all know "Allah" told us Muhammad's character is perfect, so our circular reasoning that we have to use to prop up our nonsense religion demands that we keep letting grown men have sex with little 9 year old girls.
Radical moderate:
Did I say , I prefer propagandist over sound arguments? You have problems of understanding. I said I prefer propagandist ( which has nothing derogatory), over Athanasius' physical harassment. So please correct yourself, oh no , forget about it, you can't be wrong.
James white told you not to use Encyclopedia Britannica. So be a good student.
The most vicious of lies , is the lie which is mixed with truth. Pre-puberty sexual intercourse was never allowed in Islam. Get to a higher level, would you.
You didn't tell me, is this particular sexual act is repugnant in itself?
1Milimeter
you said...
" I said I prefer propagandist ( which has nothing derogatory), over Athanasius' physical harassment. "
Lets take a a look on this "Physical Harrasment.
Athanasious did not have good looks, he did not have a good speaking voice, he didn't have catchy jingles, but what he did have was the holy spirit and scripture on his side.
You site a case in where he grabbed the Emperors horse refusing to let go until the Emperor conceded to a theological point. You call this "Harrasment" lol
Amazing, this is THE EMPEROR of ROME we are talking about here. This was not harassment, this trusting in GOD that the Emperor of ROME would not have you killed for such act.
I find it interesting you as a Muslim who follows a man who had old men and woman killed for writing disparaging poetry about him finds what Athanasius did to be harassment.
Now lets take a look at Arius,
He was good looking, very likable, very persuasive, good speaking voice, very charismatic. He had catchy little jingles and slogans. Thats all he had.
He did not have the Holy Spirit and he definitly did not have the backing of scripture.
SO since you like propaganda, and catchy little jingles I have wrote one for you.
"Jesus, Jesus son of Man,
Only he can save you,
cause no one else can.
Jesus Jesus is God in man
All will bow down
to the son of man".
As far as your other question,
" You didn't tell me, is this particular sexual act is repugnant in itself?"
Yes sex with pre pubesent children is repulsive to me.
You said...
"Pre-puberty sexual intercourse was never allowed in Islam."
Really, then why does the Quran say that the waiting period for divorce of someone who HAS NOT YET REACHED her monthly courses is the same as a woman who has?
Step up to a higher level a higher standard, come to Jesus the original Muslim. Just as he submitted to the father and put all things under him, we submit to the son, how has he power and authority over heaven and earth. I invite you to become a Muslim, bow the knee to your LORD JESUS CHRIST.
only one problem: jesus isn't God
Only one problem with that rejoinder: God has spoken: "This is My Beloved Son, Hear Him."
Come on 1 Millimeter sing it with me.
Jesus Jesus The Son of Man
Mohamed can't save you
Only Jesus Can
Jesus Jesus God in Man
All well bow down
to the Great I AM
$150 to Sam. They want Sam and his family to starve thats why they are telling peoples to stop giving monies to Sam. What they want a person to go into homeless? If you want to say Sam did mistake its ok but you cant make him to go homeless by teling peoples to stop giving monies to Sam. Sam has a mortgage and rents and familiy to fead.
Ridicule Moderate:
So Gregory of Nyssa doesn't have the Holy Spirit I guess, right? It seems in this world there are only Acts 17 and Ridicule Moderate who have the Holy spirit.
Sing with me:
Only the Father knows the Hour
Not the Angels , not the Son.
The Father is greater than All,
Greater than me, said the Son.
@1milimeter
you wrote ...
"So Gregory of Nyssa doesn't have the Holy Spirit I guess, right?"
I honestly have no idea what your talking about, or how you could come to such a conclusion.
As far as your pour attempt a jingle, I as a Christian have no problem with what you are trying to convey. If you are trying to convey that.
1. Only the Father knows the hour not the son.
2. The father is greater then all.
That is what we Christians believe.
The only problem I have is that it is poorly written.
Its not really a rhyme if you use the same word. Plus it doesn't flow.
Now take a look again at my master piece. Go ahead you know you want to.
Jesus Jesus The Son of Man
Mohamed can't save you
Only Jesus Can
Jesus Jesus God in Man
All will bow down
to the Great I AM
Notice how it flows, notice how you can't get it out of your head. Your reciting it right now aren't you? In the shower, in the car, its stuck in your head. :) Enjoy
The Father alone knew the hour,
Over that day Allah had no power
As God Jesus always knew all things,
As man He engaged in self-humbling
The day unknown during His earthly ministry,
This changed when he reclaimed all authority
This is the heart of the Christian story,
Heaven he left and then returned to glory
But there is more of the story to tell,
His words came true when Jerusalem fell
On clouds of glory He said he would return,
And that He did as Jerusalem did burn
The coming judgment only fools ignored,
It's happening proved the Jesus is Lord
The judgment on Jerusalem was a small scale picture,
Don't miss its lesson about the future
Play the fool and call him a liar,
and just like Jerusalem you'll reap the fire
To anonymous:
You peom would be good if you don't contradict yourself:
"The Father alone knew the hour,
...
As God Jesus always knew all things"
And where is the Holy Spirit in all this?
If I knew all things, If you ask me about something , And I say I don't know , that is not humbleness , that is deception and lying.
Sam Supporter , why don't you give to Ergun Caner , he will soon starve. We can't save a liar and forget another.
With the name of Allah,
" Anonymous said...
M. R.,
Are you saying that a likeness of a human being was cast on a whale to deceive everyone into thinking that a person named Sam Shamoun exists?"
Why not Anonymous God has already done that!
"So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies".(2 Thessalonians 2:11)
So don't put it past the Bible deity!
We don't even have to wait until Thor 2 if we want a good dose of Loki (the Norse god of trickery) all we have to do is click the following link
http://www.acommonword.net/2010/09/why-do-reformed-christians-believe-god.html
Is it little wonder that in the "Popular Encyclopedia of Biblical Prophecy" by By Tim LaHaye, Edward E. Hindson that it is said on page 77
"Deception is the intentional misleading of another person through word or deed. Though deception can be used for good purposes such as when the Hebrew midwives decieved Pharaoh to save the lives of the newborn males" (Exodus 1:19) it is most often used to describe the unethnical exploitation of another person or the teaching of an erroneous doctrine."
"Deceit, the deliberate misleading of another person, can serve good or evil purposes." page 78
So could the likeness of a Whale be cast upon Sam Shamoun so as to deceive everyone?
In fact let's ask the good Sam Shamoun himself what he thinks about it via his debate with Shabir Ally...
At the 2:14:28 into the debate
"About deception that's a difficulty in Islamic scholarship and I care not to comment because I do believe God is sovereign and can choose to use methods that to us seem to be unacceptable but it's not attack on his holiness so I have no problem with that Qur'anic statement....."
So you can have your complimentary bag of popcorn for today because I'm afraid you won't be entitled to finish the movie.
Anonymous also have just apostated from Christianity for he/she said,
"The day unknown during His earthly ministry,
This changed when he reclaimed all authority", Where is that in the Bible?
Also this is a heresy known as docetism because you don't believe that Jesus was really human but only appeared to be human.
Christians are Anti-Christ because they don't believe Jesus truly came in the flesh. He only took on the 'likeness'.
Remember the whale likeness being cast onto something? There you go!
Not only that but your theology is way skewed for it says "ON THAT DAY" Knoweth no man, nor the angels NEITHER THE SON.
So even on THAT DAY he is still clueless so what are you talking about reclaiming?
You can't reclaim what you don't have all along. So you are also not only a docetist Anonymous you are also now a heretic because you have divided the nature of the Godhead.
Your confused about your own theology so what are you doing here trying to push that confused jumbo upon the people of Tawheed?
ALI asked about where in the OT it says God can enter his creation.
It is implied in Jeremiah where the Messiah is called Yahweh (Yahweh Tsidkenu to be exact).
Other prophecies say the Messiah would be a descendent of David,so he would be a MAN,all that implies a VIRGIN BIRTH.
St. Gregory of Nyssa (Greek: Ἅγιος Γρηγόριος Νύσσης; Latin: Gregorius Nyssenus; Armenian: Գրիգոր Նիւսացի Grigor Niwsats'i; Arabic: غريغوريوس النيصي) (c 335 – after 394) was a Christian bishop and saint. He was a younger brother of Basil the Great and a good friend of Gregory of Nazianzus. His significance has long been recognized in the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Catholic and Roman Catholic branches of Christianity. Some historians identify Theosebia the deaconess as his wife, others hold that she, like Macrina the Younger, was actually a sister of Gregory and Basil.[1]
Gregory along with his brother Basil of Caesarea and Gregory of Nazianzus are known as the Cappadocian Fathers. They attempted to establish Christian philosophy as superior to Greek philosophy.
To Ridicule Moderate:
Still believe in Holy Spirit guidance!? When Would you make use of your brain? did The Holy Spirit guide the catholics or the protestants? If the protestants, does he guide the Lutherans, the Calvinists, the Arminians ..?
Let me give you a list of who does not have the Holy Spirit, or may I say have the Holy Spirit but he misguided them. 2 Corr 4:4:
Tertullian.
Apollonius.
Nestorius.
Origen.
Now you say Gregory of Nyssa , who is Saint.
Oh who again? Solomon, was deceived by the Holy spirit to worship Idols. May be he thought that God incarnated in a statue, so the Statue is Fully God fully stone.
@1Milimeter
You wrote...
"Now you say Gregory of Nyssa , who is Saint."
When did I ever say anything about Gregory of Nyssa, I just copied a reference to him off of the internet and asked you if this is what you were talking about.
The only one who keeps bringing him up is you.
Looks like Anthony Rogers really walloped you good over at the AM blog, because now your making even less sense then usual.
come on now sing along
Jesus Jesus The Son of Man
Mohamed can't save you
Only Jesus Can
Jesus Jesus God in Man
All will bow down
to the Great I AM
Ridicule Moderate:
Regarding Anthony Rogers, he answered nothing, you will realize that the day when you realize that Sam Shamoun is liar. But I doubt you will.
Anthony skips all my objections, and he stops at his favorite subject : The Incarnation which doesn't solve any problem.
Few months ago I faced him with simple statement that he conceded:
- God cannot be contained in the universe.
- God entered into the Universe.
I asked him, then what part of God entered in the Universe? HE disappeared.
Each time he got stuck, Anthony runs to : Oh, you have the same problem in the Quran.
Read again the his posts: I told him if God repented about things he done in the past, why isn't that a fatal blow to the omniscience of Yahweh? Anthony replies, Allah also changes his mind (about the future). If we admit that Allah Changes the course of the future ( which is false), is that the same as regretting the PAST ? Yahweh 's plan went wrong, believe it and love it.
Concerning Gregory, No I don't copy paste from the web. I have his testimony about the number of Arians around Nicea.
@1Milimeter
You wrote...
"Concerning Gregory, No I don't copy paste from the web. I have his testimony about the number of Arians around Nicea."
Ok, that's what you said a few days ago, I don't understand how you went from that, to implying that I said he doesn't have the holy spirit? Could you please explain why you said that twice?
"Now you say Gregory of Nyssa , who is Saint.
Oh who again? "
And again
""So Gregory of Nyssa doesn't have the Holy Spirit I guess, right?"
Could you please explain why you wrote these two separate sentences on two separate occasions?
Come on now sing it with me.
Jesus Jesus The Son of Man
Mohamed can't save you
Only Jesus Can
Jesus Jesus God in Man
All will bow down
to the Great I AM
To anonymous,
Those who do not condemn the infanticide and genocides of the Bible should not be allowed in society.
Practice overcomes theory. In practice, people fear more from Priests for their children. The celibacy of Priests is well instituted in the Bible, and that causes deviant sexual behavior.
90 % of Muslims did put a limit for the age of consent many decades ago, that doesn't affect our view of Muhammad PBUH, likewise, christians outlawing marriage under 12 doesn't affect the honor of Mary and her Israelite tribe.
Some Christians Are not ashamed of their Bible , they still practice polygamy. But I guess you are.
Radical:
I thought you wanted to discredit Gregory, anticipating showing his testimony.
1Milimeter
you wrote
"I thought you wanted to discredit Gregory, anticipating showing his testimony."
Weird, why would I do that? And what did I type to give you that idea?
That brain injury that Anthony Rogers gave you must be worse then I thought.
YOu also wrote...
"90 % of Muslims did put a limit for the age of consent many decades ago" decades ago, lol.
Once again Islam is behind he kuffar west.
I don't know what countries you are thinking of, but remember there are no "MUSLIM COUNTRIES" lol
And Islam set the min age centuries ago, its 9 YEARS OLD
@1milimeter
And by age of consent I mean age of consent of the father. The child bride to be doesn't even have to give her consent or even in some cases even know about it.
Ridicule Moderate:
"Once again Islam is behind he kuffar west."
Go grab a book of history , and see when Women were given the right inherit a sent. The kuffar west gave women consideration after they started wearing Bikinis.
@1Milimeter
You wrote...
"Ridicule Moderate:
"Once again Islam is behind he kuffar west."
Go grab a book of history , and see when Women were given the right inherit a sent. The kuffar west gave women consideration after they started wearing Bikinis."
I will pretend that this has something to do with Muslims lust for pre pubescent Farj.
Woman started wearing Bikini's in the 1950's and 60's.
Woman in England were given the right to property in 1870.
In the US it was Connecticut in 1809 that passed the first law giving woman rights over their own property. Other states followed in the 1850's, the west was more liberal, California being the first state to include a provision in their state constitution of 1849 allowing the right of women to hold separate property.
As you can see that was long before woman started wearing the bikini. Now can you tell me what does that have to do with Muslim men lusting after 9 year old pre pubescent farj?
Ridicule Moderate:
1800 AD is just 900 years late. Can you be sincere and give Islam that credit?
An old man like you doesn't make the difference between factual statement and a joke.
1milimeter
Reading over the Reliance of the Traveler.
Wow your right Islam does liberate woman check this out.
m3.9 Whenever a free woman asks to marry a suitor who is a suitable match (def m4) (O: by telling her
guardian, ``Marry me to him''), the guardian must marry her to him (O: whether she is a virgin or
nonvirgin, and whether prepubescent or not).
Or this
In the section titled
GUARDIANS WHO MAY MARRY A VIRGIN TO A MAN WITHOUT HER CONSENT
m3.13 (2) ... Whenever the bride is a virgin, the father or father's father may marry her to
someone without her permission, though it is recommended to ask her permission if she has reached
puberty. A virgin's silence is considered as permission.
Yeah Islam is so enlightened
Radical Moderate:
Take a breath and say it, it won't hurt you: Islam gave women the right to property 1200 years before the west.
At least David Wood say that Islam has good things , but he stresses the "Bad" things. But you and you friend Shamoun , clearly have a mental sickness.
To Radical Moderate.
You said: "Jesus Jesus God in Man"
Does it mean that he must be omniscient?
Thanks
@1moreMuslim
You wrote...
"At least David Wood say that Islam has good things , but he stresses the "Bad" things.
I'm glad to see you admit that there is "BAD things" in Islam. That's a start your on your way your eyes are being opened. I wonder if it has anything to do with my little jingle.
Ok lets take it from the top!!!
Jesus Jesus The Son of Man
Mohamed can't save you
Only Jesus Can
Jesus Jesus God in Man
All will bow down
to the Great I AM
@Anon
You wrote...
To Radical Moderate.
You said: "Jesus Jesus God in Man"
Does it mean that he must be omniscient?"
Contrary to what Muslims believe that we Christians believe, we do not believe in Apotheosis. We do not believe that Jesus has eternally existed as a MAN, or that a Man was elevated to become A GOD.
As the pre existing Word of God, he who created all things, he who is the author of life, he whom all things exist for him, and by him there is nothing that was made that was not made by him, and in him all things hold together. Yes he is omniscient.
As the incarnate Word of God in the Flesh as a Man, he would as any Man grow in knowledge. That's what Humans do, we grow in knowledge. Well at least non Muslim humans.
So for that brief period in OUR TIME, when the word of God put on Flesh to exist as a man; he was not omniscient. Because he became a MAN.
After his death and resurrection he returned to the Father, to his glory the glory he had before the begging. He is now once again omniscient.
Note: by begging we do not mean that God has a begging. It instead refers to the eternal nature of GOD, as in "The begging and the End" the ever existence.
Ridicule Moderate admitted that Jesus ( while on earth) is God without omniscience and without Glory. This is called Ridicule's theology. God loose his omniscience and Glory but he is still fully God. God can be stripped from his attributes like a king stripped from his throne and then get it back.
There is no indication that the Son, after the resurrection retrieved his omniscience. Because it's said ONLY THE FATHER knows the Hour, ONLY the Father means not the Son , nor the Holy Spirit. (Early Christians understood it that way, that is why they removed the phrase "not the Son" from later copies.
Ridicule Moderate:
Now you are really ridicule: When I say "bad" did you see those things called quotation marks? I thought you are blind just in your heart, but you need also glasses I guess.
@1Milimeter
First a correction, I said on earth as a man he was not omniscient.
This was a mistake, I should of wrote "he did not FULLY exercise his omniscient".
You wrote...
"admitted that Jesus ( while on earth) is God without omniscience and without Glory."
If by "admit" you mean confess, then yes I freely admit that and proclaim it because that is what the bible teaches, and what Christians believe. It is what we confess.
You then wrote...
"God loose his omniscience and Glory but he is still fully God. God can be stripped from his attributes like a king stripped from his throne and then get it back."
First he did not "Loose Anything" second he was not "stripped" of anything. He willing laid aside his divine attributes, he willing did not fully exercise them when on earth.
You then wrote...
"There is no indication that the Son, after the resurrection retrieved his omniscience"
Really you sure about that lets take a look
"“Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him."
John 5:19-23
One more...
"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began" John 17:5
There is more but for brevity sake I will leave it at that.
Well there you have it.
Thanks for trying please come again.
You see RAdical Moderate, how easily you fall in heresy. Luckily, the Councils had set up the "standard" orthodox doctrine for you. Imagine the confusion between the 1st and the 5th century. Poor Apollonius, he was a big follower of Athanasius, he became too passionate to resolve the mystery of the Incarnation, after his 60's, he fell into disgrace for trying to make sense out of it.
To limit oneself omniscience is called to pretend to not knowing, faking. So when Jesus was asked about the Hour, he was pretending not to know? What else Can God limit himself in? Can he limit himself and not to exercise Justice for a while? Or can he stop himself from saying the truth. Man , you are giving Idolatry every justification.
At least you have the ability to double check orthodoxy and correct yourself accordingly, but some folks like Venomfangx, with 35 000 subscribers is teaching the same Apollonius' heresy without noticing it, we wanted to correct him, but he still insists that only the body of Christ was human, but his soul was not.
1mm says:
Can he limit himself and not to exercise Justice for a while?
I say:
In the Muslim view is this not exactly what Allah does when he chooses not to punish every sin?
1mm says:
Or can he stop himself from saying the truth.
I say:
this is ironic coming from you
quote;
Indeed, the hypocrites [think to] deceive Allah , but He is deceiving them.
sura 4:142a
end quote
peace
1milimeter
You wrote...
"You see RAdical Moderate, how easily you fall in heresy."
My question can you point out where or when I fell into Heresy?
FMM
You beat me to it lol
Fifth Monarchy man
Maybe you can answer me and point out where I entered into heresy?
RM said:
Maybe you can answer me and point out where I entered into heresy?
I say,
I’m at a loss
To limit oneself is not “faking”. In fact it’s the foundation for every interpersonal relationship.
It’s impossible for the infinite to commune with the finite unless he limits himself that's just logic 101.
For the muslim to say that God can’t limit himself temporarly is itself a limitation. Except in that case the limitation is permanent and imposed externally by the creature.
That sounds a lot more like heresy to me
peace
FMM,
yeah I thought his statement was a little nonsensical. It was funny I was going to respond to him along the same lines as you.
Kind of funny were on the same page lol.
I just wanted to make sure I did not make any errors in my explanation or if I could of explained it better.
Thanks
Ridicule Moderate:
When did you fall into heresy? Before you corrected yourself. Now you are going to deny that also?!
FMM
You are like Anthony Rogers, instead of answering questions you go : You too have that in the Quran.
No, we don't believe that God suspends any of his attributes not for even a second, let alone 33 years. But that is the Christian objection : Yahweh can never limit his justice, but God can limit his holiness, his Glory , his omniscience and many other things. Very Consistent!
FMM, please stay away from this conversation, at least Ridicule Moderate has 2 digits in his IQ.
Now the Ridicule:
" This was a mistake, I should of wrote "he did not FULLY exercise his omniscient".
Partly Omniscient, makes less sense than partly pregnant. Christians will know the truth when they would discern foolishness and reasonable statements.
partly All-knowing, that is 90% of 100%, that equals 90%, that is less than All-knowing, So repeat after me : Jesus is not omniscient.
What now? Are you going to correct yourself again?
1Milimeter
You wrote...
"When did you fall into heresy? Before you corrected yourself. Now you are going to deny that also?!"
So fell into heresy because I misspoke? And what am I going to deny, or how can I deny since I said I made a mistake. Jesus exercised Omniscient when he knew about the woman at the well, when he said that Peter would deny him 3 times, and that he knew the hearts of disbelievers.
Now as far as your nonsense that your Allah can not limit himself. You do realize what you are saying don't you. You are saying that God is a slave to his attributes.
So in other words your Allah will destroy you, because he can not appease his wrath, he can not limit his wrath against you.
You said to me on another post that I think I am always right. It's not that I'm always right, its that you are always WRONG.
As far as FMM, he is by far brighter then I am, its funny I don't know him, I don't even know his theology and he doesn't know me. But we are on the exact same page.
Well it was fun playing with you. But now I have work to do.
Imm said,
FMM, please stay away from this conversation, at least Ridicule Moderate has 2 digits in his IQ.
I say,
I make no boast of being smart in fact I would not be surprised that my lack of IQ is one of the reasons that God chose to show me mercy.
Quote:
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
(1 Corinthians 1:26-29)
End quote:
As for joining the conversation I don’t plan on it.
Usually I just ignore someone who is not really interested in having an honest discussion.
But if Sam’s is around I’ve got some time and I’d love to discuss the need for an atonement.
He's proven himself so far to be truthful and respectful of others
Peace
To Radical Moderate.
Thank you for the answer.
My next question to you is: While JC was as you said “word of God put on Flesh to exist as a man” could he lie or misinform his disciples?
Thanks
@1Milimeter
FFM wrote...
"Usually I just ignore someone who is not really interested in having an honest discussion. "
Like I said he is a lot smarter then I
@Anon
You asked...
"My next question to you is: While JC was as you said “word of God put on Flesh to exist as a man” could he lie or misinform his disciples?"
Answer since he was not born from Adam's seed, he did not have the sinful nature. So the answer is NO he could not.
To Radical Moderate
Thank for your answer.
My next question is: Is The Holy Spirit omniscient?
Radical,
I would recommend that you not play this pointless game of "questions". Letting an insincere person with a hidden agenda control the direction of dialogue is a losing game, any way you slice it. Just my 2 cents.
To Anonymous.
Questions - I agree, but answers fully controled by Radical Moderate.
To Anonymous.
You said - "Letting an insincere person".
Do I know you? Or maybe God revealed to you about me?
Isn't sinfull to make false acusations?
@the anon who wrote....
"I would recommend that you not play this pointless game of "questions". Letting an insincere person with a hidden agenda control the direction of dialogue is a losing game, any way you slice it. Just my 2 cents."
I came to that conclusion after I he asked the second question with no interaction to my answer on the first question. My suspicions where confirmed when he did the same with the answer to the second question.
We play this game with Muslims all the time on PT. They will ask question after question after question.
What they're doing is just fishing. Their looking for any chink in the armor of God. Its a standard tactic. They will ask question after question waiting to see if you give a non orthodox answer, and if you do either because you misspoke or you did not know. Then they will pounce on that.
We once played the game in a Muslim room where we got the Muslim up to around 20 questions, he finally got so frustrated that he could not find any weakness or any deviation that he bounced and banned the four of us. Classic.
To the Muslim ANON who has asked me two questions. I have a question for you.
Surah 3:7 says taht there is two parts to the Quran, the Um Al Kitab, and the Unclear part.
I would like to know what part of the Quran is the Um Al Kitab? Can you show me the Um Al Kitab verses?
Now back to the Anon who gave the great advice not to play the game.
Watch, he wont answer. Instead he will accuse me of running, or failing to answer his question or some such nonsense. Or we will never hear from this Anon again.
Either way should be interesting lol.
To Radical Moderate
Relax.
Do not panic. I asked you these questions for clarification and some explanation so I could forward it to one atheist I know, so please do not exaggerate.
Now, to your question. First time hear about Um Al Kitab, or the Unclear part so I have no idea, but if you want I can send your question to one of apologetics and see if they give me some answer.
So what about my questions?
RM said,
What they're doing is just fishing. Their looking for any chink in the armor of God. Its a standard tactic. They will ask question after question waiting to see if you give a non orthodox answer, and if you do either because you misspoke or you did not know. Then they will pounce on that.
I say,
I have seen the same thing repeatedly from some Muslims.
The tactics have not changed much in 2,000 years
quote:
As he went away from there, the scribes and the Pharisees began to press him hard and to provoke him to speak about many things, lying in wait for him, to catch him in something he might say.
(Luke 11:53-54)
and
And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodians, to trap him in his talk.
(Mark 12:13)
and
Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his words.
(Matthew 22:15)
etc etc etc
end quote:
This sort of thing is just not how real discussion happens.
The cool thing is we know that in the end such "fishing" will always fail.
quote;
The meek shall obtain fresh joy in the LORD, and the poor among mankind shall exult in the Holy One of Israel.
For the ruthless shall come to nothing and the scoffer cease, and all who watch to do evil shall be cut off, who by a word make a man out to be an offender, and lay a snare for him who reproves in the gate, and with an empty plea turn aside him who is in the right.
(Isaiah 29:19-21)
end quote:
That's quite a promise.
peace
peace
@Anon
Tell you what, when you find out about the Um Al Kitab, then I will answer your third question.
That's two for one, that's a good deal.
FMM
Great verses, it is so true. A Muslim once shared the wrong link with a room by accident. It was link from a Muslim site "Ask the Sheik" or something like that, on how to do Dawha to Christians.
The response went something like this. "I have found that when practicing Dawah on Christians it is best not to discuss Islam or answer any of their questions. It is best to first find out how much they know about their own religion, and if they lack knowledge, then it is easier to prove their religion false. After you have done that then they are more susceptible to Islam."
The Shake then went on to give some examples of "TOUGH QUESTIONS".
Like "Where did Jesus ever say he is GOD? OR Where did Jesus ever say "Worship me" or "Where is the word trinity" or my favorite "Show me the word bible in your bible" that one always makes me laugh lol.
The site then went on to give advice that if the Christians gives answers move on to the next question. And if the Christian is giving responses demonstrating a knowledge of this Religion then it is best to leave him to look for someone else for Dawah.
Islam is a predatory religion, it
It preys on the mentally and physically abused. The social awkward, the lonely the depressed, the outcast, the angry the anti social, people who are angry at GOD.
Where as Christians seek the lost sheep, the ones that Father has drawn near, Islam seeks the branch that the father has pruned from the true vine.
I noticed something hanging out in Muslim rooms on Paltalk. When ever they get a weak person on the hook, those Christians with any knowlege, that can give any meaningful response are quickly dotted and bounced from the room.
To Radical Moderate
Why you people making things complicated when you and FMM already announce a victory.
I have just begun asking you questions and I think I have more to ask. Moreover I am a beginner in religion things so if you ask me something I will have to ask someone else and it will take more time which unfortunately I do not have.
Therefore, I can accept the deal if you answer all my questions (other way it will be pointless for me, I have no knowledge and time) and accept my answer for your question (if you do not like it then let the people judge).
One more thing I am not an English speaking so I apologize and I hope there will be no misunderstanding.
To Radical Moderate.
Hi.
Could you give me the link to - "It was link from a Muslim site "Ask the Sheik" or something like that, on how to do Dawha to Christians." Just want to check if you are telling the truth.
@Anon who wrote...
"Could you give me the link to - "It was link from a Muslim site "Ask the Sheik" or something like that, on how to do Dawha to Christians." Just want to check if you are telling the truth."
I'm not a Muslim so I'm not lying.
As far as the link it was some time ago, many builds ago so no I don't have it. I'm sure I could do a search on google and find it or something similar. I mean hang out in "Dawah rooms in Paltalk" and sooner or later you will hear Muslims giving lectures on that very topic and giving that very same advice.
@The Anon who wrote...
"I have just begun asking you questions and I think I have more to ask."
Yeah we know you have "Just begun asking Questions" like I said you are probing and fishing. You are following the prescribed method of Dawahh that I just outlined.
Never answer anything about Islam, only attack the other belief.
You also wrote...
"Therefore, I can accept the deal if you answer all my questions (other way it will be pointless for me, I have no knowledge and time) and accept my answer for your question (if you do not like it then let the people judge)."
I have answered two of your questions, so I think it's only fair you answer one of mine.
Or at least submit all your questions.
If not then I return you back to the darkness, no worse off, but certainly no better.
to Radical Moderate
“I'm not lying.” – Well, prove it then.
“As far as the link it was some time ago, many builds ago so no I don't have it. I'm sure I could do a search on google and find it or something similar. I mean hang out in "Dawah rooms in Paltalk" and sooner or later you will hear Muslims giving lectures on that very topic and giving that very same advice.” – blah blah blah, you are a good student of Sam, files on hdisc, some guys talking on paltalk, and now google it? I mean typical.
“like I said you are probing and fishing” – I guess when you probing and fishing with your Um Al Kitab questions its ok but for me it is bad – double standards, so typical.
“You are following the prescribed method of Dawahh that I just outlined.” – the one you til now couldn’t prove.
“Never answer anything about Islam, only attack the other belief.” – well, why don’t you follow your own advice and google it, lol.
“I have answered two of your questions, so I think it's only fair you answer one of mine.” – I have no problem to answer it, just take the deal.
“Or at least submit all your questions.” – My questions depend on your answers, is it so hard to understand?
“If not then I return you back to the darkness, no worse off, but certainly no better.” – What about love your enemies and pray for them helping them to come to JC??? Typical hypocrisy.
Dearborn Police Bar Christian Group from Public Street Near Mosque
A few hours before Dearborn's Arab Festival began last week, Pastor Terry Jones was preparing to give a speech at City Hall. Police were there in full force to protect Pastor Jones. The police presence might easily give the impression that Dearborn respects the U.S. Constitution. But alas, appearances can be deceiving.
Dearborn Police were protecting Terry Jones for one simple reason: more than a dozen cameras, including many news cameras, were pointing at Terry Jones. Dearborn Police had no concern for protecting First Amendment rights. They were there to protect the reputation of Dearborn.
How do I know? Well, just as Pastor Jones was preparing for his speech, a few peaceful Christian evangelists were preparing to distribute DVDs, pamphlets, and copies of the Gospel to Muslims near the largest mosque in North America. Without a dozen cameras recording, Dearborn Police showed far less concern for the U.S. Constitution.
@Anon who wrote...
"“like I said you are probing and fishing” – I guess when you probing and fishing with your Um Al Kitab questions its ok but for me it is bad – double standards, so typical."
I'm not fishing for a answer, I already know you can not answer it.
I am saying right from the beginning that NO MUSLIM CAN ANSWER THIS. Or at leas no MUSLIM HAS ANSWERED THIS. WE that is my self and others have been asking this question to Muslims, that's multiple Muslims on many occasions over a period of 3 or 4 months.
And so far the response has either been the way you answered, I call it the appeal to ignorance or for Muslims to give completely incoherent answers that disagree with each other, the Quran, Hadeeth and even the "SCHOLARS".
So I already know you can not be able to answer it. To be honest this question is devastating to Islam.
You then wrote...
"“You are following the prescribed method of Dawahh that I just outlined.” – the one you til now couldn’t prove."
Actually you are proving it, with your refusal to answer my single question about Islam and your continued insistence that I play 50 questions with you and you will only answer questions about Islam if I answer all your Questions.
You also wrote...
"“Never answer anything about Islam, only attack the other belief.” – well, why don’t you follow your own advice and google it, lol."
I don't have to since you are proving that what I wrote is true. I got a idea why don't you take your own advice and google Umm Al Kitab.
You then wrote...
"“I have answered two of your questions, so I think it's only fair you answer one of mine.” – I have no problem to answer it, just take the deal."
If you have no problem answering my single question then answer it. Thats the deal.
You then wrote...
"“Or at least submit all your questions.” – My questions depend on your answers, is it so hard to understand?"
I understand completly as I said you are practicing the prescribed method of Dahwa. You are just fishing and refusing to answer a single question of mine.
You also said on a previous post...
"Do not panic. I asked you these questions for clarification and some explanation so I could forward it to one atheist I know, so please do not exaggerate."
Yeah a Muslim is asking questions of a Christian so he can forward those answers to a Athiest????
You then wrote on another post...
"I have just begun asking you questions and I think I have more to ask. Moreover I am a beginner in religion things so if you ask me something I will have to ask someone else and it will take more time which unfortunately I do not have."
I know you have just begun asking me questions because that is the prescribed method of Dahwa. So your a beginner in religious things but you have a prescribed set of questions to ask a Christian. Subsequent Questions depend on my answers to your previous questions so you can forward those answers to a Athiest friend??? Yeah this is so believable NOT.
Its not that I'm calling you a liar, its that I'm calling you a MUSLIM.
So if I ask you something you will have to ask someone else and that will take more time then you have? But you have enough time to respond to me that you will not respond over the last few days???? In the time it took you over the last few days to write that you will not respond you could of asked someone else and got a answer to my one simple Question and responded to me.
You then wrote...
"“If not then I return you back to the darkness, no worse off, but certainly no better.” – What about love your enemies and pray for them helping them to come to JC??? Typical hypocrisy."
When have I ever expresed any hatred toward you? I do pray for my enemies that they are drawn near to the father and yes that would include you.
I just follow Christ and I know better then to "throw my pearls at swine, or give what is sacred to dogs".
@Anon
Bottom line, and the Final word, I will not answer or respond to you until you answer my single Question.
And that is that
to Radical Moderate
Part 1
Wow!!! That’s a long talk. I mean why instead answering to my questions you doing this? Oh, I see you are using this method which you tried to prescribe to us. Exposed lol
“I'm not fishing for a answer, I already know you can not answer it.” – Yeah, of course. Stop talking and take the deal.
“I am saying right from the beginning that NO MUSLIM CAN ANSWER THIS. Or at leas no MUSLIM HAS ANSWERED THIS. WE that is my self and others have been asking this question to Muslims, that's multiple Muslims on many occasions over a period of 3 or 4 months.And so far the response has either been the way you answered, I call it the appeal to ignorance or for Muslims to give completely incoherent answers that disagree with each other, the Quran, Hadeeth and even the "SCHOLARS".”” – Again, I can only hear blah blah, take the deal.
“So I already know you can not be able to answer it. To be honest this question is devastating to Islam.” – Again and again only blah blah blah. Waite a minute, all these hundred of years, thousand of books against Islam, finally Radical Moderate by only one question destroyed Islam. What a joke. However, you can have your chance just take the deal.
“Actually you are proving it, with your refusal to answer my single question about Islam and your continued insistence that I play 50 questions with you and you will only answer questions about Islam if I answer all your Questions.” – why do you care, you already “devastate” Islam by only one question. Lol
“with your refusal to answer my single question” – liar.
“I got a idea why don't you take your own advice and google Umm Al Kitab.” – Remember these words – “I'm sure I could do a search on google and find it or something similar”. So typical.
“I don't have to since you are proving that what I wrote is true.” + “I understand completly as I said you are practicing the prescribed method of Dahwa.” – That’s funny how you and people like you expose themselves. You are using exactly this tactic which you wanted to prescribe to us. Let us analyze: 1. “if the Christian is giving responses demonstrating knowledge of this Religion then it is best to leave him” – no match, refuted. 2. “Never answer anything about Islam, only attack the other belief”, You answered two questions and on third you started to attack me and all this blah blah blah.
“You are just fishing and refusing to answer a single question of mine.” – Again, liar. I want to answer it but you refuse to take the deal.
“Yeah a Muslim is asking questions of a Christian so he can forward those answers to an Atheist???? “ – Yes, and I know why it’s hard for you to understand it. You have limited mind and tolerance.
“I know you have just begun asking me questions because that is the prescribed method of Dahwa.” – Yeah, secret methods like you said “sure I could do a search on google and find it or something similar” – how can people take you serious?
“So your a beginner in religious things but you have a prescribed set of questions to ask a Christian. Subsequent Questions depend on my answers to your previous questions so you can forward those answers to a Athiest friend??? Yeah this is so believable NOT.” – Who cares???
“Its not that I'm calling you a liar, its that I'm calling you a MUSLIM.” – again, so much love and respect, Hypocrite.
“So if I ask you something you will have to ask someone else and that will take more time then you have? But you have enough time to respond to me that you will not respond over the last few days????” – As I said I am not an English speaking but thanks to Google translate and other useful programs I can write here and it take me long time to do it.
“In the time it took you over the last few days to write that you will not respond you could of asked someone else and got a answer to my one simple Question and responded to me.” – How can I, it is a devastating question and no Muslim can answer it. I am just joking lol; I already have the answer, so relax and take the deal.
To Radical Moderate
Part 2
“When have I ever expressed any hatred toward you? I do pray for my enemies that they are drawn near to the father and yes that would include you.” – Well, accusing me: insincere person or “I'm not a Muslim so I'm not lying”, probing and fishing, accusation of following some methods which I have never heard, “I return you back to the darkness, no worse off, but certainly no better” cant hear much love here. I just asked you three questions, I was polite and showed you respect but you and your brothers in shamoun started to offend me.
So please save me from this, it is not the first time you were caught on hypocrisy.
“I just follow Christ” – You are not a follower of JC, you are not a Christian, you are not even a Pauline. You are a shamonian. (sometimes I even think you are SamS himself)
My last words: I willing to forget about all that happened between us and start from beginning. You answer my questions and I answer your simple question.
And may Allah guide you and Shamoun
@Anon
You wrote...
"I already have the answer, so relax and take the deal."
Great so where is that answer you say you have?
You also wrote...
"You answer my questions and I answer your simple question."
I have already answered two questions and I'm waiting for you to answer my single question. A question that you say you have the answer to.
Interesting you first said you where asking the question for a atheist friend of yours, you then said that you were new to this "religious thing", and that you have never heard of the Umm Al Kitab. And that you would have to ask someone to get the answer. Something you did not have time to do. Now you say you have the answer but surprisingly you have not given that answer.
The only DEAL is you answer my single question and i will answer your next question. Thats two for one for you. Thats a good deal, so take it reject it and walk away.
Like I said I'm not calling you a liar, i'm calling you a Muslim.
Is it just me or does Anonymus sound a lot like 1MoreMuslim aka Maroune.
maybe they are cousins.
I also find it striking that 1mm suddenly seems to be too busy to post here while Anonymous is asking questions.
Maybe he is busy asking Christians questions elsewhere
I wish I had a higher IQ so I could unravel the mystery of it all.
peace
To Fifth Monarchy Man.
“Is it just me or does Anonymus sound a lot like…..” – Yes, as it always it is you.
“maybe they are cousins.I also find it striking that 1mm suddenly seems to be too busy to post here while Anonymous is asking questions. Maybe he is busy asking Christians questions elsewhere. I wish I had a higher IQ so I could unravel the mystery of it all.”- blah blah blah
But to make things easier to you – I am not 1mm or Maroune.
Peace
To Radical Moderate
“Great so where is that answer you say you have?” – I have it right here on email just waited to be translated, I have massive file on my computer lolololololol remember this? lol. I am just joking, take the deal and I will present it.
“I have already answered two questions and I'm waiting for you to answer my single question.” + “The only DEAL is you answer my single question and i will answer your next question. Thats two for one for you. Thats a good deal, so take it reject it and walk away.” – Let us compare this. You already announced the victory (although I was not debating you and claiming that my questions going to devastate Christianity) – “NO MUSLIM CAN ANSWER THIS” etc. On the contrary I was just asking you questions and as you told us you have great experience so you would not have any problem. So from your side “QUESTION - NO MUSLIM CAN ANSWER THIS” and from my side some questions all Christians can answer.
“A question that you say you have the answer to.” - Indeed I have.
“Interesting you first said you where asking the question for a atheist friend of yours” – absolutely true and I am going to do it if you take the deal. “you then said that you were new to this "religious thing"” – Yes.
“and that you have never heard of the Umm Al Kitab” – First time from you.
“And that you would have to ask someone to get the answer.” – Why are you so surprised? I mean “NO MUSLIM CAN ANSWER THIS”.
“Now you say you have the answer” – Yes NOW I have it,
“but surprisingly you have not given that answer.” – Well, but surprisingly you refused to take the deal so I am patiently waiting for you to take the deal to show it.
“The only DEAL is you answer my single question and i will answer your next question.” – Are you serious? Instead for my simple question (all Christians can answer) you want the answer for “NO MUSLIM CAN ANSWER THIS”. I mean if I new the question “NO CHRISTIAN CAN ANSWER THIS” I could not reject.
“Like I said I'm not calling you a liar, i'm calling you a Muslim.” – Well, Like I said I'm not calling you a Christian I just calling you a liar and hypocrite or I’m calling you just a shamounian.
So, Do you take the deal or not?
@Anon
You said...
" I have it right here on email just waited to be translated,"
Ok then you let me know when you have that translated.
to Radical Moderata
so you want to play dumb huh? Ok, it is your choice.
Take the deal answer my questions and I show you the answer to “NO MUSLIM CAN ANSWER THIS”.
So, Do you take the deal or not?
@Anon
"So, Do you take the deal or not? "
NO I don't LOL
@FMM
You wrote...
"Is it just me or does Anonymus sound a lot like 1MoreMuslim aka Maroune. "
No I don't think it is 1milimeter. This guy is a little more craftier then 1milimeter. I thought it could of been IBN, since IBN likes to re post someone's entire comment and then respond to that. But Ibn is a little more refined then this guy.
I don't believe it is, but he is a lot like a Muslim on PT, nick BALQANI.
Balqani likes to repeat your response and then ask another question, then another question then another question so and and so forth. Always promising that he will answer your question at the end. Which of coarse he never does.
Its pathetic really.
Either way I find it funny that he is using the tactic that I outlined on how Muslims are to practice Dawah.
RM said,
No I don't think it is 1milimeter. This guy is a little more craftier then 1milimeter.
I say
I did not think it was 1mm but then again I did not think Maroune was 1mm either. The resemblance in the M.O. is striking though.
Hey Anonymous,
Can I give you a little advise.
Why not put your cards on the table and have an honest discussion? There is a reason you are asking these questions why not just come out and explain what it is?
It can’t be because you are curious what Christianity teaches. If that was the case you could just type your question into Google and have an answer in seconds.
You claim to be new at this sort of thing so perhaps you mistakenly believe that your approach is the best way to interact with non Muslims. It should be becoming obvious trying to play “got ya” only leads to a dead end and never too fruitful dialogue.
I think you’ll find that if you are upfront and genuine Christians are more than willing to defend their faith and answer any and all questions you have.
It might also be helpful if you try and tone down the rhetoric a notch.
Quote:
A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
(Proverbs 15:1)
End quote:
Peace
To Radical Moderate.
Just to clarify. I am not IBN or Balqani and I have never been on PT (I already have told you I have no time or knowledge)
“Balqani likes to repeat your response and then ask another question, then another question then another question so and and so forth.” - so what??? You come to Muslim blog, writing here and you don’t like then you have been asked the questions?!
“Always promising that he will answer your question at the end. Which of coarse he never does.” – I am not familiar with this Balqani and actually I can’t trust you without facts but I can tell you that if it is a true then he is a liar, it is that simple.
“Its pathetic really.” – What is really pathetic is how you over and over again try to accuse me of using some tactics which existence you couldn’t prove so far, and it is not just pathetic it is typically pathetic.
And one more thing.
If I break my promise and will not answer your question then you have full right to call me a liar, you can celebrate your victory and tell everybody that your question “NO MUSLIM CAN ANSWER THIS” is still unanswered.
@Anon
You wrote...
"I already have told you I have no time or knowledge"
yeah I noticed
You also wrote...
"If I break my promise and will not answer your question then you have full right to call me a liar"
I wouldn't call you a liar just a MUSLIM.
This conversation was funny at first, then went to cute, and now its just boring.
Let me be CLEAR I WILL PUT THIS IN ALL CAPS.
I WILL NOT ANSWER ANOTHER QUESTION OF YOURS UNTIL YOU ANSWER MY SINGLE QUESTION. BY NOT ANSWER I MEAN NOT ANSWER EVER UNTIL YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION. THERE IS NO WAY I WILL ANSWER ANOTHER QUESTION UNTIL YOU ANSWER MINE.
I WILL NOT RESPOND AGAIN TO YOU EVER ON THIS SUBJECT AS LONG AS YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTION. BY NOT RESPOND AGAIN I MEAN NEVER UNTIL YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION. I WILL NOT EVEN RESPOND TO YOU TO MAKE FUN, SINCE THAT IS TO EASY AND IT HAS BECOME VERY REPETITIVE AND BORING.
Well I think that should be clear enough for even 1milimeter to understand.
Have a nice life.
What I find most amusing is this idea that because an ordinary lay man does not debate sam shamoun , therefore sam shamoun is the absolute paragon of truth. Let me give you a run down of what actually is going on, so you Trinitarian pagans can stop worshipping yet another false god by the name of sam shamoun. 1.Unlike Christianity, and Jesus (I see no connection between the prophet of God pbuh and the rag of lies which Christianity is) Islam has a vast, expansive history and material. Muslims have recorded every action of the prophet pbuh, every detail of his life, and indeed of his death. We have literally volumes of narrations about our Prophet, peace and blessing of the One and true God be upon him. On the other hand, Outside of the Bible, history cannot even attest for the existence of a historical Jesus. So what clowns like shamoun and wood do, is the scour through hadith material, find what they deem as highly objectionable, and in a debate throw it against the Muslim debater. Now admittedly, its very very difficult for ANY Muslim to have read every hadith, validated it, contextualized it historically, authenticated its narrations. So when a Muslim cannot react strongly against this hadith, shamoun froths at every orifice and demons dictate his behavior from then on. This also demoralizes the Muslim debater. Gone are the days where christains retained some honesty in their debates, and in the process became pavement under Deedats boots (or Zakir or Ally etc). Now christains have acquired this new method, attacking Muslims with hadiths which the Muslim has never encountered before, to score some damned theological brownie points. 2. A good debater is just THAT, a good debater, it does NOT authenticate his premise. I challenge any Christian outside of William Lane Craig, or maybe James White and a few others who I do consider as intellectuals(ironic I know, how an intellectual can be a christian) to challenge a seasoned atheist to a debate. They will defile their pants! Does that mean atheism is true? Not to mention Shamoun had a chance to utterly destroy Shabir Ally, and in the process revealed himself to be a sophomoric, juvanile, smug sewer rat. If it wasn’t his pathetic, childish body language (laughing, smirking), he starts handing pieces of paper to Shabir Ally “heres your answer”. Really Sam?? Last time I checked the very purpose of a debate is to present your case WHILE your are engaged in that debate! Anyone can take pre-written papers and hand them over to their opponent! What a hilarity. I could see it in Shabirs (who is a genuine, seasoned, reputable, scholarly debater) face, the absolute regret as to how he could be engaged academically with a little infantile tadpole who is still swimming in a drop of semen.
Cheers
What I find most amusing is this idea that because an ordinary lay man does not debate sam shamoun , therefore sam shamoun is the absolute paragon of truth. Let me give you a run down of what actually is going on, so you Trinitarian pagans can stop worshipping yet another false god by the name of sam shamoun. 1.Unlike Christianity, and Jesus (I see no connection between the prophet of God pbuh and the rag of lies which Christianity is) Islam has a vast, expansive history and material. Muslims have recorded every action of the prophet pbuh, every detail of his life, and indeed of his death. We have literally volumes of narrations about our Prophet, peace and blessing of the One and true God be upon him. On the other hand, Outside of the Bible, history cannot even attest for the existence of a historical Jesus. So what clowns like shamoun and wood do, is the scour through hadith material, find what they deem as highly objectionable, and in a debate throw it against the Muslim debater. Now admittedly, its very very difficult for ANY Muslim to have read every hadith, validated it, contextualized it historically, authenticated its narrations. So when a Muslim cannot react strongly against this hadith, shamoun froths at every orifice and demons dictate his behavior from then on. This also demoralizes the Muslim debater. Gone are the days where christains retained some honesty in their debates, and in the process became pavement under Deedats boots (or Zakir or Ally etc). Now christains have acquired this new method, attacking Muslims with hadiths which the Muslim has never encountered before, to score some damned theological brownie points. 2. A good debater is just THAT, a good debater, it does NOT authenticate his premise. I challenge any Christian outside of William Lane Craig, or maybe James White and a few others who I do consider as intellectuals(ironic I know, how an intellectual can be a christian) to challenge a seasoned atheist to a debate. They will defile their pants! Does that mean atheism is true? Not to mention Shamoun had a chance to utterly destroy Shabir Ally, and in the process revealed himself to be a sophomoric, juvanile, smug sewer rat. If it wasn’t his pathetic, childish body language (laughing, smirking), he starts handing pieces of paper to Shabir Ally “heres your answer”. Really Sam?? Last time I checked the very purpose of a debate is to present your case WHILE your are engaged in that debate! Anyone can take pre-written papers and hand them over to their opponent! What a hilarity. I could see it in Shabirs (who is a genuine, seasoned, reputable, scholarly debater) face, the absolute regret as to how he could be engaged academically with a little infantile tadpole who is still swimming in a drop of semen.
"if you think a 50 year old man having sex with a little girl of 9 that plays with dolls is healthy, then it's obvious that you are the one that needs a psychologist"
Really, and a god who impregnates a girl around 10-14, to give birth to himself is morally unblemished, a true example for all of us to follow? Lets put this in perspective, Since jesus is God according to you loons, he impregnated his own mother who was around the age of 10-14, and gave birth to himself. Follow that one of you can, but you are a christian, you don’t necessarily THINK, for if you did think, you wouldn’t find yourself in the unholy pickle of believing in a profane mess that is the unholy trinity. Lets see what jesus had to say in the old testament. “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” Ah indeed, the virgins girls around that time were most likely 5-10 years old. Hypocrisy runs like reptilian blood within the christain veins! Seriously do you Christians think at all??? Cheers
So they DO agree that the father is greater than ALL, which means he’s greater than his son, he’s greater than the holy spirit…BUT WAIT..this is Christianity we are talking about, the father is distinguished from the unholy trinity ONLY when its convenient, the son is distinguished again…only when its convenient. Otherwise it becomes a matter of “whats your point, yes the father is greater than all, but hes also jesus, so we have nothing to explain. “ehh but who did Jesus bow down to and pray to?” “stupid Muslim he prayed to the father, who is greater than all and sent his son…to..*choke* die for us, yes that’s it!” “so the father is SEPARATE from the son??” “NO! they are the same in essence, we believe on ONE God..I swear!” “Dude, try Islam, believe me its much simpler on the intellect, you actually can do the MATH when conceptualizing God” “But Mohammad is a pedophile!” Oh lord I am having a great time just laughing at Christianity, thank you Brother snow for this blog. Cheers
I was searching the comments section for a particularly asinine comment expressed by a mentally inept christian. Either Retarded Moderately or his lobotomized christian buddy articulated the zenith and epitome of stupidity. I believe it went something along the lines of “When Allah does not punish every sin, does that mean hes limiting himself?”. That statement was made in hopes of wiggling his way out of explaining why jesus did not know the hour. In the chistians deranged logic, Jesus was limiting himself, and when Allah does not punish every sin, Allah also limits himself, therefore problem solved. Unfortunately for the christain, Allah does not say “I cannot punish this sin, punishing and forgiving belongs to my father”. See if Jesus had said “I do know the hour, it is my prerogative to inform you or not, and I do not wish to impart that information on to you” then yes the christian would have a valid argument. But Allah does as Allah pleases, hes not CONSTRAINED and LIMITED like poor Jesus who COULD NOT answer the question because he DID NOT KNOW the ANSWER! Moving on…Cheers.
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