Our Christian friends keep telling us how they have the ‘Holy Spirit dwelling within them’ yet it appears roughly half of the American Christian population* considers Mormons to be Christians whilst others would passionately decry it as polytheism!
The real question is why in the world are the ‘Holy Spirit inspired Christians’ in utter disagreement on the issue of Mormons - why can't they differentiate between polytheism and their faith if they truly have the 'Holy Spirit dwelling within'? Interesting.
BTW, in case you want a serious answer to the question, it’s simple; Christians do not, despite their beliefs, have the ‘Holy Spirit dwelling within’, thus are prone to such theological disagreements.
Mormon, Danielle O. McClellan Shocks Evangelical Christian (James White)
Unless White can document the rejection of Mormonism as Christian by “the entire spectrum of Christian churches” I would ask him to avoid hyperbole. But as has been pointed out in the comments section of this post, White’s hyperbole is demonstrably false. A 2007 Pew Research Center Survey (found here) found that 40% of white Evangelicals, 62% of white mainline Protestants, 43% of black Protestants, and 52% of Catholics identify Mormons as Christians. Historically, I have seen a these responses to these data. It usually comes down either to the notion that these people must not be real Christians; that it’s the church’s official judgment that counts, and that’s determined by whether or not they consider Mormon baptisms legitimate (or something along those lines); or the data will simply be ignored. Perhaps White will have a different approach
http://danielomcclellan.wordpress.com/2011/04/24/responding-to-james-white-part-3/
Muslim, MaratSafin, Shocks Fundamentalist Christians
This entire post is actually based on the comment below:
btw mr radical do you believe mormons to be christians? according to this blog post by a mormon here http://danielomcclellan.wordpress.com/2011/04/24/responding-to-james-white-part-3/ 62% of white mainline protestants consider mormons to be christians!!! wow, i guess christians cant differentiate between thier religion and polythiestic one. btw radical if dare read the exchange between the above blogger and james white, it sure did open my eyes about certains things in the bible and it showed how ineffective james white has been against mormons because in all honesty this guy took him to the cleaners. hey if you do read the exchange you might convert to mormonism and support romney or huntsman!!! two guys that seem sane when stood next to palin,gingrinch,cain and bachman
Perhaps our Christian friends are now rethinking their belief structure
* http://pewresearch.org/pubs/648/romney-mormon
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New Testament Discussed
According to Calvin's theology, Solomon was never a true believer, because he died as an Idol worshiper. That means that Solomon was receiving revelation from God, to call people to faith, while he has no saving faith.
ReplyDeleteRadical Moderate calls Islam a pathetic religion.LOL.
Hi - I am definitely happy to discover this. Good job!
ReplyDelete@1moreMuslim
ReplyDeleteYou have been a busy boy today. Posting on AM blog, and now making the claim that Solomon died a idol worshiper.
All this and you still have not done the following.
1. Demonstrate that the Surah that was quoted on another thread dealing with embryology is either clear or unclear verse?
2. Show me in the Quran where your question on Suffering is asked, I would also like to know if there is a answer. Also is the verse you are going to be siting clear or unclear?
3. And now you have to show in the bible where Solomon died a Idol Worshiper?
There is more but I think tahts enough for now.
Also u still have to call into ABN, tongight is going to be ladies night.
But tomorrow's show is going to be on the problem of sin in Islam.
I think thats going to be a great topic. Maybe you can call in tomorrow.
Yahya this is extremely poor logic even for you. You seem to have somehow invented the notion that indwelling by the Holy Spirit means Christians will never disagree and never be in error. Can you please explain where exactly your understanding of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes from? The Bible never makes any such claim about the nature of this indwelling, and if you disagree I expect you to quote the specific verses and explain their relevant context. Furthermore, one can be indwelled by the Holy Spirit and not have sufficient knowledge of a topic. I doubt 1 out of 50 Christians even know enough about the basic fundamentals of Mormon theology to make an informed decision over whether or not Mormonism preaches the true Gospel or a false gospel.
ReplyDeleteLet me give you an example. If you were to survey myself and 100 other similar Christians and ask us questions about Australian rugby players versus footballers from New Zealand, it would be fallacious and ludicrous to claim based on the results, that 100 of us "don't have the Holy Spirit" simply because we can't tell the difference between one group and the other. And before you attack my analogy, you should realize that the average evangelical in the U.S. (where the study you cite was conducted) knows about as much about Mormonism as they do Australian Rugby, or New Zealand football (virtually nothing).
In short, most Christians don't "passionately decry (Mormonism) as polytheism" because they have no clue what Mormonism teaches. If that same sample was polled with questions about the history and fundamentals of Mormonism there is not a shred of doubt in my mind this would be apparent. Your level of absurdity in your attempts to deny the One True God of the Bible, and the Person of the Holy Spirit have clearly gone into a realm of sad desperation.
Wow.. you know what I realized rad mod? You are obsessed with islam! It is kind of disturbing actually. Yahya n one more mozlem are only posting because they are trying to defend their religious beliefs against people like you who are unhealthily obsessed about someone else's religion. It is pretty sad. Have you ever sat down and actually counted how much time you waste hating on islam over loving your man god? Check ya self before you wreck yaself....
ReplyDeleteRadical Moderate,
ReplyDeleteI have a first hand account from a family member that Nabeel Qureshi can physically 'hear the voice of God' speaking to him. You can doubt what I say, because I don't feel comfortable releasing this information without his family's permission.
Have a nice day.
That means, Nabeel is in essence a far greater man than Paul, himself, for Paul wasn't having the regular chit-chat with God.
ReplyDeleteThat, was my surprise for you.
ReplyDeleteChristian groups often deny that Mormons are Christian, while Mormons disagree. This article explains both points of view.
ReplyDeleteOn this page
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Are Mormons Christians?
Are we Christians? Of course we are! No one can honestly deny that.
We may be somewhat different from the traditional pattern of Christianity. But no one believes more literally in the redemption wrought by the Lord Jesus Christ.
No one believes more fundamentally that He was the Son of God, that He died for the sins of mankind, that He rose from the grave, and that He is the living resurrected Son of the living Father.
President Gordon B. Hinckley
In recent years the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has moved to emphasise that is distinctively Christian.
In 2001 the church decided that in writings it should be called first by its full name - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - and then in later references called the Church of Jesus Christ.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is certainly Christian to the extent that Christ is at the centre of its beliefs. Individual Mormons try to live their lives following the teaching and example of Christ.
The Mormon view
Mormons believe that conventional Christian churches have lost the authority of God. They believe that conventional Christian beliefs are a mixture of the truth and of errors that have been added over the centuries.
Mormons believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and rose on the third day. They believe that there would be no salvation without his atonement. They believe Christ will return to earth to reign and rule.
The conventional Christian view
Traditional Christian belief is contained in the creed as interpreted by the various denominations over the centuries.
The teaching of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints differs from the creed in so many places that many traditional Christians say that Mormons are not Christians.
Attitudes of other Christians
Both the Vatican and the policy-making body of the United Methodist Church have decided that Mormons must be rebaptised when converting to Catholicism or Methodism.
This shows that the Roman Catholic Church regards Mormonism as varying in its essential beliefs from traditional Christianity. It does allow members of most Protestant and Orthodox churches to convert to Catholicism without being rebaptised.
However Mormons require that everyone be baptised when they join their Church, no matter what background they come from.
One difference in the two concepts of baptism is that the Roman Catholic church states that baptism remits original sin as well as personal sin, and that as Mormons do not accept the idea of original sin their idea of baptism is different. Mormons believe people are baptised for the remission of their own sins.
RFA17
ReplyDeleteSad, just sad
Speak, very well said, thank you.
ReplyDeleteAnon
Said...
"Yahya n one more mozlem are only posting because they are trying to defend their religious beliefs..."
So attacking Christ, his people, and his word is defending Islam? So slandering Christians is defending Islam? Telling complete lies is defending Islam?
That's some religion they got there, the only way it can define or defend itself is by doing all of the above and worse.
i think a question should be asked is are catholics considered christian? because i remember james white was expressing his hatred for iraq when al queda attacked a catholic church and he called them christians.
ReplyDelete@speak if you do not now where in the new testament the bible states the holy spirit will dwell within christians then that is proof of how illiterate christians are about thier own scripture.
ReplyDeletebut the funny thing is after insuniating that it nowhere in the bible does it state that the holy spirit indwells in christians you go and contradict your self in the next paragraph!!! anyway that being said 62% of white mainline christians believeing mormonism is christian is damming indictment on the education of these lot. the holy spirit should make clear to any christians who is and who is not or more clearly what christianity is and what it is not christianity. mormonism is pure polythiesm anyone knows that so your excuses for the utter failure of the holy spirit in this regard is weak and lame but i know why you lot have to make excuses for one third of the trintarian godhead because it has shown to be utterly false.
You don't believe me, do you? Just wait for the evidence to be posted soon :)
ReplyDeleteRFA17
ReplyDeleteIts not that I don't believe you. I don't that is true, its that I really don't care.
Yes we are all going to wait for you to manufacture your evidence LOL.
Really man I'm still waiting for you to tell me if the verse you quoted on "Embryology" is a clear verse or a unclear verse.
Instead of doing that you come up with this nonsense.
Desperation on your part.
Nabeel Qurehsi can communicate with God, via his mind. Doesn't that bother you a little? ;)
ReplyDeleteWeren't you the same guy who said:
ReplyDelete"RFA17
I would trust Nabeel Qureshi with my life, I would follow him into combat against the Barbarian Muslim hoards, any day any time any place.
So what is your surprise for me lol"
So what's your take on Nabeel actually hearing God's voice? You believe him? Well, do you? ;)
RFA17 Wrote...
ReplyDelete"Nabeel Qurehsi can communicate with God, via his mind. Doesn't that bother you a little? ;)"
It would bother me if Nabeel didnt communicate with God via his MIND. LOL
I communicate with God via my Mind all the time. You mean you Muslims do not communicate with your God via your mind? How do you Muslims communicate with your God, or do you Muslims even communicate with your God?
You also wrote...
"So what's your take on Nabeel actually hearing God's voice? You believe him? Well, do you? ;)"
First you made the accusation with out any proof that Nabeel actually said he hears the voice of God. Like I told 1moreMuslim, its not that I don't believe you, its that I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. It's because you Muslims lie as easy as breathing. So don't take it personally.
Just to let you know, Christians here Gods voice all the time. I'm sorry you Muslims don't. I guess that explains why you Muslims can sin so easily.
It is the Holy Spirit convicting us of our sin. Calling us to repent and restraining us from sinning even worse.
You took what I said the wrong way. Nabeel actually think he can speak to God, as in 'hear' his voice, as in hear sounds reverberate inside his ears. That still doesn't bother you?
ReplyDeleteNo, as Muslims we cannot 'hear' God's voice. We can surely see his signs, but his 'voice' is saved for the pure and good people to hear on the Day of Judgement.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) stated that those who believe they can hear God's voice are mentally ill.
RFA17
ReplyDeleteyou wrote...
"You took what I said the wrong way. Nabeel actually think he can speak to God, as in 'hear' his voice, as in hear sounds reverberate inside his ears. That still doesn't bother you?"
That is your accusation, lets see the video.
No, it's not a video. It's a personal message exchange I had with someone who is quite close to him. I will not publish the material with his/her consent. But I will let you ponder over this.
ReplyDeleteLook at how blindly you believe your priests and leaders. Ha!
I mean, WITHOUT his/her consent. If something like this is published, it's the end of Acts 17 Apologetics, or perhaps a new beginning without Nabeel. Depends on how ringleader David Wood handles the news ;)
ReplyDeleteRFA17
ReplyDeleteOK good to know.
WOW you are so desperate lol
;)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSpeak asked:
ReplyDeleteCan you please explain where exactly your understanding of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes from?
Me: Firstly, thanks for the question, however I do not appreciate the digs.
As you may well know, Trinitarian Christians believe the Holy Spirit to be a person of God, thus if the Holy Spirit is dwelling within them then they have God with them or inside them depending on how they look at things.
Surely, it's a problem if they cannot differentiate between polytheism and their faith whilst claiming to be guided by and having the Holy Spirit dwelling within - whom they believe to be a God.
Peace
Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another
@anon
You were clearly looking to instigate some mischief, hence the removal of that comment.
Peace
I feel pity for you rad mod. I just returned from jumah (our friday prayer) While there I was introduced to a person one of my friends brought with him to jumah. An evangelical missionary! My friend who brought him had been engaging with the young missionary on matters of religion for almost 3 years now meeting nearly every week. I just said, wow, what a good christian.. I wish I could say the same about you. Hate begets hate. Look into your soul and take yourself into account before you are taken into account!
ReplyDeleteRadical Moderate wrote:
ReplyDeleteSo attacking Christ, his people, and his word is defending Islam? So slandering Christians is defending Islam? Telling complete lies is defending Islam?
Me: Don't you dare suggest we attack Christ. We love him more than you and weh vae more right to him than you. I have personally seen Jesus (p) in a dream and I love him as a Prophet (pbut).
You, for some reason strut about in such an arrogant and bigoted fashion it defies belief that you have the audacity to even claim to be serving him whilst wrongly deifying him. You serve nothing but hatred and falsehood.
Muslims love Jesus (p) for who he actually is whilst you claim to 'love' him for something which he clearly is not nor did he ever claim to be that which you ascribe to him.
Even the book which you claim to be inspired by God has Jesus stating he has Muslim brothers and sisters. I guess you never read that bit or just glossed over it in favour of quotes from Paul and/or dishonest folk claiming to be Paul.
You love Paul more than Jesus. In fact, your NT is more to do with Paul than Jesus (p)...
I would also suggest you show a modicum of respect for Jesus by at least writing 'peace be upon him' in an abbreviated form after his name. It's not too difficult to do at least once in your post...
But hey, I guess you have been leaving that job to those who actually DO LOVE Jesus (p) - namely the Muslims.
Rethink your ways, you have been told.
maratsafin,
ReplyDeletePlease work on your reading comprehension.
I never challenged the promise of indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. I challenged Yahya's understanding of it. It would be nice if Yahya would explain where his understanding of the function and results of being indwelled by the Holy Spirit comes from. His understanding of the concept is certainly not Biblical....
"Surely, it's a problem if they cannot differentiate between polytheism and their faith whilst claiming to be guided by and having the Holy Spirit dwelling within - whom they believe to be a God."
ReplyDeleteErmm...indwelling by the Holy Spirit does not bring with it a "download" of exhaustive theological knowledge, nor does it prevent people from being fallible and making mistakes. Nor, does it adjudicate the believer from their responsibility to use their God-given intellect and fill it with knowledge for making informed decision.
I notice you did not cite the specific texts in which you derive your understanding of this issue from. It seems to me that you have read/listened to second hand sources (i.e. what various Christians have said) about indwelling by the Holy Spirit. When you simply listen to other people's opinions there is no assurance of the orthodoxy of their statements. Your concept of the results of being indwelled by the Holy Spirit is not Biblical.
If they can't differentiate between their faith and polytheism it is because they are either ignorant of the facts, or theological underdeveloped. The Holy Spirit does not remove the believers obligation to learn, study, and use our brains, and the New Testament does not describe that He does.
P.S.- Seeing the specific Biblical text that you are getting your understanding from would go a long way to clearing this up, assuming you are sincere and open to correction (and apologies if I was overly critical or abrasive, but your consistent character assassinations, misrepresents, and the affronts against the Holy Spirit that appear on your blog do not lend to a "flowers and candy" dialogue).
@Yahya Snow
ReplyDeleteYou wrote...
"Don't you dare suggest we attack Christ. We love him more than you and weh vae more right to him than you. I have personally seen Jesus (p) in a dream and I love him as a Prophet (pbut)."
First you call GOD a liar, when you deny the sonship of Christ. Calling God a liar is a insult. You deny the Divinity of Christ, as far as you loving Jesus, that is nonsensical, you don't even know him. How can you love someone you don't even know.
You have allowed others on this blog to continually mock, insult and Blaspheme Gods Holy Spirit, that is the Spirit of God proceeding from both the Father and the SON, you make yourself a accompless to their mockery and even blasphemy. I could go on, but as Jesus said "I do not come to judge, but the very word that you reject will stand in judgment of you"
So please don't give Christians that nonsense "We love Jesus more then you" or this "We have more of a right to him then you do" As if he is a commodity to be traded or a possession to be had. That statement right there just shows how very little you know of Christ.
You wrote...
"You, for some reason strut about in such an arrogant and bigoted fashion it defies belief that you have the audacity to even claim to be serving him whilst wrongly deifying him. You serve nothing but hatred and falsehood."
Another false alagation against me. How am I a bigot I stand against the Islamic Bigotry. A bigotry, segregation, oppression, and apartheid system that YOU ADMITTED TO. You words when confronted with these things in Islamic law "Take a chill pill it's no big deal."
Can you demonstrate where I have ever said anything bigoted, where I have ever said that I wanted Non Muslims to kill Muslims, can you show me where I have ever said Muslims should be persecuted and forbidden from practicing your religion on your own kind?
The truth is that I want you Muslims to practice Sharia on yourselves, I want all US FORCES TO WITHDRAW FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, I want the US to not interfere in Mid East politics.
How is any of that bigoted?
You then wrote...
"Even the book which you claim to be inspired by God has Jesus stating he has Muslim brothers and sisters. I guess you never read that bit or just glossed over it in favour of quotes from Paul and/or dishonest folk claiming to be Paul."
You do know that Jesus was a Muslim. He submitted to the father, who put all things under him. We christians are the orginal Muslims we submit to the Son as the father has ordained. So I invite you to true Islam and that is submitting to the Son just as the Son submits to the father.
Do you submit to Jesus, the author of life, the creator of all things?
You then wrote...
"I would also suggest you show a modicum of respect for Jesus by at least writing 'peace be upon him' in an abbreviated form after his name. It's not too difficult to do at least once in your post..."
Why would I do that? As if Jesus the prince of peace, the Mighty GOD, needs his creation to wish him peace. What a man centered religion you have. I pray for Christ to give me peace, not for peace on the one whom peace comes from.
Well snowman go shed your insincerity some place else.
Anon said...
ReplyDelete"Hate begets hate. Look into your soul and take yourself into account before you are taken into account!"
Question when have I ever demonstrated any hatred to Muslims. Unless you are saying that wanting Muslims to practice Islam on their own kind is bigoted and hatefull?
@Yahay
ReplyDeleteOne more thing, you do know that every time you slander, mock lie, etc.. against Christians or tolerate that from others on your blog you are in fact doing that to Christ.
How you know the Christians saying Mormon are Christian is not catholic?
ReplyDelete(CNSNews.com) – At a congressional hearing on Muslim radicalization in U.S. prisons, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) said that investigators needed to analyze Christian militants in America because they too might try to “bring down the country.”
ReplyDeleteIn an exchange with witness Patrick Dunleavy, the former deputy inspector of the criminal intelligence unit, New York Department of Correctional Services, Rep. Jackson Lee mentioned the case of a man who blew up an abortion clinic and proposed that this perhaps was an attempt to undermine U.S. law that allows a woman to procure an abortion.
Rep. Lee then said, “As we look to be informational, we should include an analysis of how Christian militants or others might bring down the country. We have to look broadly, do we not?”
Dunleavy answered: “I don’t know that Christian militants have foreign country backing or foreign country financing.”
Lee then said, “I don’t think that’s the issue. The issue is whether or not their intent is to undermine the laws of this nation. And I think it is clear that that is the case. So it’s not -- your distinction is not answering the question.”...
An al-Qaida-linked website has posted a potential hit list of targets that include names and photos of several U.S. officials and business leaders, calling for terrorists to target these Americans in their own homes, NBC New York has learned.
ReplyDeleteThe FBI has sent out a new intelligence bulletin to law enforcement agencies, warning that this new web-based threat, while not a specific plot, is very detailed. The bulletin said the list includes leaders "in government, industry and media."
The FBI has notified those individuals who are named.
NBC New York will not identify them or their companies. The list includes Wall Street firms, political leaders, leaders with think tanks and contractors who do business with the military.
The websites contain 40 specific names, 26 of them with photos attached, and they call for posting home addresses. One jihadist called for sending package bombs to any listed address as just one possibility. [...]
The FBI is calling the list of names the most detailed web-based al-Qaida-linked threat since Osama bin Laden was killed. The list has also been discussed on another al-Qaida-linked web forum.
The concern is a lone actor could try to use the specific information for a plot.
The FBI letter says the information on the overseas websites "is aspirational and it's unknown if the threat will progress beyond these discussion forums."
These specific postings follow calls by Adam Gadahn -- al-Qaida’s American-born communication chief -- for individual attacks.
Officials are concerned the list has been shared on numerous jihadist sites.
“What’s scary about this is how specific the individual information is,” said former New York State Homeland Security Director Michael Balboni. “What you don't know is, when does aspirational become operational in cases like this, involving a possible lone actor here inspired by a website.”...
Denmark: Only 14 percent of Muslims identify themselves as democrats
ReplyDeleteBy Nicolai Sennels
The Danish Conservative Party MP Naser Khader, a Muslim and an immigrant from Syria, has received threats from Syrians via Facebook and by telephone. One Muslim threatened to cut Khader into pieces; another said he would trample him to death.
The threats appeared shortly after Khader criticised the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, and also declared that he was considering converting to Christianity. One angry Muslim wrote about Khader on Facebook that "the Muslims in Denmark are very angry at him. He defended and supported the Muhammad drawings. He says that being a Muslim is secondary to being a democrat. He fights Islam and has declared war against Sharia."
It is interesting to know that Naser Khader started the organisation Democratic Muslims in 2006. A survey showed that only 14 percent of Muslims in Denmark could identify with this organisation, seeing themselves as "Muslim, democrats and Danish." (This survey is not online anymore; a copy of the text is here). This percentage is from when the organisation had just started and received immense attention in the media (it only had 1,100 Muslim members, of whom only 505 paid for their membership).
Nicolai Sennels is a psychologist and author who writes from Denmark.
WASHINGTON — The number of attacks by Afghan security forces on U.S. and allied troops has increased dramatically this year, prompting commanders to seek ways to ease combat stress among Afghan troops, according to a NATO investigation obtained by USA TODAY.
ReplyDeleteSince 2005, there have been 22 such attacks, nine of them in 2011, or 40% of the total.
The attacks have coincided with an increase in the size of Afghan security forces and the addition of 30,000 more U.S. troops last year.
The attacks since 2005 have killed 51 troops from the U.S.-led coalition and wounded 48 more.
The review found that 38% of the attacks were the result of "emotional, intellectual or physical stress due to presence in a combat environment."
A source told CBS News that the man detained in the discovery of a suspicious vehicle outside the Pentagon Friday morning has been identified as a lance corporal in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve.
ReplyDeleteMarine reservist Lance Cpl. Yonathan Melaku, 22, told authorities during questioning Friday morning that he was carrying explosive materials, the source told CBS News investigative producer Pat Milton. CBS News affiliate WUSA-TV in Washington reports that Melaku serves as a motor vehicle operator.
In a statement, the FBI said Melaku had been awarded the National Defense Service Medal and the Selected Marine Corps Reserve Medal. The bureau said he joined the Marine Reserve in 2007 and has not deployed overseas.
A law enforcement official told The Associated Press that Melaku is a naturalized U.S. citizen from Ethiopia. Investigators and bomb-sniffing dogs were sifting through his family's home in Fairfax County, Va., and agents in white protective suits removed evidence from the property.
Previously, FBI Special Agent Brenda Heck, who heads the bureau's counterterrorism division in its Washington field office, told reporters that a non-explosive material was found in a backpack the suspect was carrying at the time of his arrest.
A law enforcement official speaking on the condition of anonymity said tests were being done to determine the substance and the exact concentration.
A law enforcement source told Milton that the suspect now identified as Melaku was carrying a notebook that contained the phrases "al Qaeda," "Taliban rules" and "Mujahid defeated croatian forces" when he was detained.
Despite the references to the terror organization that organized the 9/11 attacks, the group fighting U.S. forces in Afghanistan and the Arabic word for "holy warrior," the law enforcement source told Milton that the suspect is not thought to have been involved in a terrorist act or plot....