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| Sincere Christians will Apologise |
Christian evangelists and apologists, having attacked Prophet Muhammad (p) due to his marriage to Lady Aisha (consummated when she had reached puberty), are realising the marriage of Lady Aisha to Prophet Muhammad (p) is BIBLICAL. It's sanctioned by the Bible.
All this time these extreme evangelical Christian bigots who have been hounding Muslims due to Prophet Muhammad's (p) marriage to Lady Aisha have actually been insulting the Bible and Judeo-Christian traditions in the process.
Here is a quote from a Christian apologist who confirms the Biblical age of consent is in fact PUBERTY:
"...the Holy Bible makes a reference to the general age of a girl considered for marriage. The reference is found in a parable where God likens Israel to a baby girl whom Yahweh took in and then eventually married. The parable proceeds to liken Israel’s dabble with idolatry to a wife who commits adultery and prostitution.
Not only does this specific parable present the marriageable age of a girl, the parable also assumes that this is a fact that was already well known and observed by the peoples, specifically Israel.
"On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised. Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, ‘Live!’ I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew up and developed and became the most beautiful of jewels. Your breasts were formed and your hair grew, you who were naked and bare. Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your nakedness. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign LORD, and you became mine. I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put leather sandals on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was fine flour, honey and olive oil. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign LORD." Ezekiel 16:4-14God mentions that the young babe attained the age for lovemaking after her breasts had formed and her pubic hairs had grown, clear signs of puberty. The reason we believe that the reference is to pubic hair is because a) the hair on the head of a girl grows many years before reaching the time of puberty, and b) the connection to nakedness suggests that the exposure of her body parts needed to be covered since it was shameful for them to be exposed for all to see. In other words, there was no shame for the hair of a girl’s head to be uncovered, but exposing one’s pubic hairs would be..."
"...Thus, we have a biblical text establishing puberty as the minimum age for marriage..."
Christian fundamentalists, the sincere ones to their faith, will all be eating slices of humble pie and apologising to Muslims for their co-religionists' anti-Biblical attacks against Prophet Muhammad (p).
I would also like to refer the readers to material from the Jesus scholar Geza Vermes, in which he highlights Jewish tradition at the time of Jesus was in fact to use puberty as a biological sign for consummation of marriage. See here:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/age-of-consent-for-christians-and-jews.html
Conclusion
It's a classic case of Christians not knowing what their own Bible teaches them. To be fair, I personally have never come across a Jew had attacked a Muslim concerning Prophet Muhammad's (p) marriage to Aisha though I've come across numerous Christians who have been attacking such. Perhaps it's a case of Jews understand their traditions better than Christians and thus recognised the marriage of Prophet Muhammad (p) and Aisha was in fact normal and perfectly acceptable.
Maybe Christians in the West often confuse the age of consent laws in their respective countries (in the UK it's 16, America I believe it's 18 for most states) with the Bible. This is a problem for Christian communities.
I just hope there are sincere Christians out there who will apologise and admonish any other their co-religionists who may be throwing out such anti-Biblical arguments in the future.
Invitation to Islam
Pophet Jesus (p) taught people to do the Will of God (Mark 3:35) in order to become his brothers, mothers or sisters. A Muslim means one who submits to the Will of God. Do you want to become a brother of Jesus? If yes, become a Muslim. Now is the time.
Learn about Islam:
http://www.thedeenshow.com/
Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk
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ReplyDeleteHere too we have our friend Sam the ignorant .
ReplyDeleteSam lets see what the Biblical standards which Jews used to follow.
“There is less evidence regarding female age at marriage . As noted , the overwhelming impression given in the legal sources is that fathers betrothed their daughters while they were still minors .”
SOURCE: Michael L. Satlow in ‘Jewish Marriage in Antiquity’,pg.107
“How old could Mary have been? Young girls were usually betrothed as soon as they became women. It was believed they reached puberty at about twelve or twelve and a half.” (Deiss, L. (1996). Joseph, Mary, Jesus (Madeleine Beaumont, trans.). Collegeville, Minnesota: The Liturgical Press. p. 25)
“The women normally married as soon as they were physically able to bear children, which the Law defined as twelve and a half years of age. Mary, the mother of Jesus, was probably no older than fourteen when she bore him.” (Zanzig, T. (1999). Jesus of History, Christ of Faith. Terrace Heights, Winona: Saint Mary’s Press, Christian Brothers Publication. p. 89)
Echoing the same viewpoint Dr. Eugene Weitzel states:
“He knew too that girls were ready for marriage as soon as they were physically ready to conceive and bear children, which according to the law was twelve and one-half years. Mary, the mother of Jesus, was probably no more than fourteen years old when she gave birth to the Son of God.” (Weitzel, E. J. (2010). I Want to Be a Husband and Father for Life and a Catholic Priest Forever. U.S.: Xilbris Corporation. p. 113)
Scholar Nisan Rubin writes:
“Grooms could marry at the age of 18-20 (or older) with a young girl, twelve years old, who had “reached puberty.”… The ideal was to marry off girls while still minors, since they constituted an economic burden…” (Rubin, N. (2008). Time and Life Cycle in Talmud and Midrash. Brighton, Massachusetts: Academic Studies Press. p. 16)
Here is the kick though, the halakhic precedent does not limit the age of marriage for a female at 12 but rather much younger as Rubin states:
“Another issue is the minimal age at which a father could marry off his sons and daughters, that is, the halakhically proper age of marriage. For girls, the period of first minority was estavlished, from birth to the age of three, in which a girl was not fit to be mrried, and the father could not betroth her. From the age of three to twelve was the period of second minority, in which her father could betroth her without her consent.” (Ibid.)
Thus, in the above we come to know that the contemporary Jewish legal understanding at the time was that an older man was allowed to marry a girl as young as THREE years of age. The footnote given by Rubin for the so called second minority age is as follows:
“M. Kiddushin 2:1; Niddah 5:4; BT Niddah 45a.” (Ibid. fn. 53)
What Rubin does not inform his readers is the actual legal words regarding three years of age as the minimum age of marriage which are as follows:
“[A GIRL] who is three years and one day old can be betrothed through cohabitation.” (Nosson Scherman & Hersh Goldwurm (eds.) in Talmud Bavli: Tractate Sanhedrin. New York: Mesorah Publications. p. 23)
The above then means that men were allowed to betroth a three and one day year olf girl through sex.
JESUS
Carol L. Meyers writes:
ReplyDelete“The Bible gives us no indication as to the age of marriage for women, which would not be appreciably different from the age at which childbearing begins. However, based on the tenuous calculations of the marriage age of certain Judean kings (e.g. Josiah: age 14; Amon: 14) and the rabbinic stipulation of twelve as the minimum age of marriage for girls and thirteen for boys, an early age for marriage can be presumed (de Vaux 1961: 29). Similarly, the relatively short life spans of the ancient world, particularly in plague epochs, would lead to the conclusion that marriage took place soon after puberty, with betrothal preceding marriage perhaps by many years.” (Meyers, C. L. (1996). Procreation, Production, and Protection: Male-Female Balance in Early Israel. In Charles E. Carter & Carol L. Meyers (eds.), Community, Identity, and Ideology: Social Sciences Approaches to the Hebrew Bible. United States: Eisenbrauns. p. 507)
Referring to De Vaux whom is cited by Meyers he wrote:
“The Bible gives us no information about the age at which girls are married. The practice of marrying the eldest first was not universal (Gn 29:26). On the other hand, it seems certain that girls, and therefore presumably boys too, were married very young; for centuries this has been the custom of the East, and in many places it still obtains to-day.” (De Vaux, R. (1997). Ancient Israel: Its Life and Institutions (John McHugh, trans.). Grand Rapids, Michigan: Wm. B. EerdmansPublishing Co. p. 29)
The Bible provides no foundation for fixing a minimum age, that much is evidently clear.
John Hayes writes:
“Israelite youths seemed to have married at an early age, probably in the early teens, although this is simply a calculation made on the basis of the ages given for the kings at their accession and the ages of their sons at their accession. There is no legal stipulation on the subject in the Biblical traditions, though later rabbinical rulings fixed the minimum age at twelve for girls and thirteen for boys.” (Hayes, J. H. (n.d.). Introduction to the Bible. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: The Westminster Press. p. 87)
Hayes is absolutely right on the fact that Israelite youths married at an early age and that there is absolutely no legal stipulation on a minimum age in the Biblical traditions. However the claim that rabbinical ruling fixed the minimum age for girls at twelve is inaccurate as I have shown earlier. Lieve Teugels rightly writes:
“Conversely, if a girl is three years and one day, she can be betrothed by sexual intercourse.” He continues writing, “Obviously, the Mishnah does not say that a woman should be betrothed at the age of three or hat this is a standard age to do so. It is, rather, mentioned as the minimal age.” (Teugels, L. M. (2004). Bible and Midras: The Story of ‘The Wooing of Rebekah’ (Gen. 24). Peeters, Bondgenotenlaan. pp. 218-220)
Teugels in his discussion on the subject also cites Judith Hauptman who writes:
“After three, if a man has sex with a girl, not only does he cause her to lose her virginity permanently, but also- and precisely because of this-the sex act has a variety of legal consequences for both of them: for him, if she were forbidden to him, he will be punished in the same way as if she were a mature woman; for her, if the sexual relations were for the sake of marriage, they will make her a married woman.” (Ibid. pp. 218-219)
In conclusion, contemporaneous to biblical and patristic times it was allowed to Jewish men to have intercourse with three year old girls to enable marriage between them. If this was such a heinous sin in the eyes of Christianity why is it that not a single Christian teacher made it unequivocally clear that it was? There were no dissenting voices at all among the Christians against this practice as they had no biblical foundation to censure it. That is quite an unavoidable conclusion. Modern day Christians have no biblical case to make which is why they appeal only to emotions.
SAM DEBUNKED , OHHHH , POOR GUY DOES NOT WHAT HIS BIBLE SAY
JESUS
Sam , i have quoted scholars and shown u convincingly what they say on the Biblical criteria .
ReplyDeleteGo somewhere else with ur ignorance.
JESUS
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ReplyDeleteNext time you pass by here please try not to have a hernia over your keyboard.
Your spam has been removed - you were lying!
The real interesting thing is, I am in the throes of putting together a video on this subject as we speak so your spamming of the same LIE on my blog just pushes me to churn the video out quicker. Oh and it features clips of you!!!
You really are a dishonest and obnoxious man, aren't you.
BTW I see how your argument has evolved. Initially you and those of your ilk used to criticise Prophet Muhammad simply for the age difference in that marriage (and the age of Aisha), then when you found out that marriage is BIBLICAL you shifted the goal posts and started lying by claiming puberty was not reached.
I know you are lying as you KNOW of the sources which confirm puberty and you KNOW that classical Muslim scholarly views are united on consummation only taking place after puberty begins (just like what your Christian teachings say).
PS you are a hypocritical man because we BOTH know that if the following verse from Ezekiel (which you use to prove Biblical age of consent is the same as Islam - puberty) was in a Muslim scholarly paper you would have been using it to insult Muslims due to the language of such:
You grew up and developed and became the most beautiful of jewels. Your breasts were formed and your hair grew, you who were naked and bare. Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love
PS I'm mature and respectful enough not to insult this as one needs to contextualise.
You are a sad and pathetic man who grabs anything to attack Muslims - the majority of instances (if not all) you wind up insulting your own Bible.
In this is a lesson for those who want to think - these criticisms of Prophet Muhammad (p) are in fact criticisms of your Bible too.
I can only conclude:
For you, your hatred of Muslims and Islam supersedes your love for the Bible.
Either that or your an idiot/mentally ill.
Think about it, here you are as a professing fundamentalist Christian who is Bible-believing yet when put in front of a Muslim you have convulsions and through your Bible behind your back and start insulting Muslims and Islam with stuff that insults Biblical teachings too.
Now you tell me, is that through being consumed with hatred or simply a mental illness?
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ReplyDelete@ Sam, you know you could have had a reasonable conversation on here but you just couldn't exercise self-control. Why do you always go off on fits of rage? I worry for your keyboard. I worry for your blood pressure.
ReplyDeleteYou need to calm down before you comment. Try to take a deep breath and have a sip of tea before you comment.
Self control is a fine thing.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 [Galatians 5]
BTW According to Dave Wood you are a glutton.
@ Brother Jesus,
ReplyDeleteThanks for those quotes. I will make a post based on them.
I think your posts may have led to Shamoun having a cardiac arrest. These type of comments do not do much good for his blood pressure problems.
Sam, if you are still healthy enough to re-visit this page, try to be more balanced in the future. Your lack of balance (ie extreme hatred of Muslims and Islam) leads you to showing yourself up and possibly putting your health in danger as your fits of rage cannot be good for your hernia, blood pressure nor your ticker.
Think about it Sam.
Sam, please view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A6GYZoinS8
Give Islam a chance by dropping your hatred of /muslims
Whatever faith you are on right now, it's not working.
Yahya mad he got owned, Muslims mad they always get owned by Sam that's why they hate him
ReplyDeleteThanks for the post. Soild and sharp analysis as always.
ReplyDeleteJazakallah khayran katsiir akhi Yahya.
sam wud poo and piss in his trouser if yahya debated him. sham wud wear a diper to da debate. he luk funny. sam u faild again. u get pwnd always. u luk dummy again. sham dnt snap ur key bord
ReplyDelete@Sam ,
ReplyDeleteI should say u have a very poor understanding and add to it u do not even read what is posted properly .
Just see what i have posted , Jews used to betroth their girls in marriage when they were still minors . That was their custom , nothing was bad with it at that time .
So , why the fuss with Prophet Mohammed when he married a girl when she was still a minor , as it was also the custom within Arabs .
You obviously did not read and understand what i posted , likewise ur cheerleader Anthony Jokers .
Still if u disagree , then............ I CHALLENGE U TO BRING A SINGLE VERSE IN THE BIBLE WHICH SAYS MARRYING A MINOR IS WRONG !
JESUS