First off, if I am not mistaken, Dr. White criticizes Muslims for mentioning the
Ebionites. Now on one hand he does make the good point of saying they were a
later group and not part of the first generation. Fair enough. He then said that
the Ebionites did not believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, but rather a
natural birth between Mary and Joseph. This is true. Except not true of a second
group of Ebionites who DID believe in the Virgin Birth. This can be clearly seen
in "Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History" translated by C.F. Cruse pg. 93. I also
want to point out that when Muslims bring up Judaizers or Jewish Christians, and
the connection to the Ebonites, they are not far off the mark in the
discussion. If one reads the works of Robert Eiseman and sees the theological
positions of the early Jewish-Christians and the history of their movement, one
could understand the importance of studying their beliefs.
I would be interested to see what Dr. White thinks about the works of
Robert Eisenman. It would seem that a number of scholars, Bart Ehrman included,
see the variation of Christian theology. It would also seem apparent that
studying the works of Eisenman and Ehrman even if they are "liberals" is
certainly knowledge that people interested in Christian theology and history
should read and consider. [http://ozzycda.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/dr-james-white-vs-muslimbychoice-and.html]
Question for James White:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/a-question-for-melissa-cain-travis.html
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/a-question-for-melissa-cain-travis.html
Christians
having dreams and converting to Islam:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/christians-are-having-dreams-and.html
Invitation to Islam
Jesus taught people to do the Will of God (according to Mark 3:35) in order to become his brothers, mothers or sisters. A Muslim means one who submits to the Will of God. Do you want to become a brother/sister of Jesus? If yes, become a Muslim.
Learn about Islam:
http://www.thedeenshow.com
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/christians-are-having-dreams-and.html
Invitation to Islam
Jesus taught people to do the Will of God (according to Mark 3:35) in order to become his brothers, mothers or sisters. A Muslim means one who submits to the Will of God. Do you want to become a brother/sister of Jesus? If yes, become a Muslim.
Learn about Islam:
http://www.thedeenshow.com
Email:
yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk
norman geisler, ergun caner, sbc, Baptist, catholic, tony palmer, ahmed deedat, muslim debate,yusuf bux, Yusuf ismail, zakir naik, bassam zawadi, ijaz ahmad, sam shamoun, yahya snow, nabeel qureshi, apologist, alpha and omega ministries, ozzycda, james white refuted, catholic answers, latest debate, protestant, shabir ally, sheikh, nt wright, Robert price, islam is the truth, Quran, Muhammad, Jesus, trinity refuted, brother Imran, iera, paul Williams,Kerrigan Skelly
@yahya
ReplyDeleteIf you are going to post something up at least post up the source data like I have. and read the full content. Because it clearly says the other group believed in the resurrection which will destroy the muslim position
"
CHAPTER XXVII.
The Heresy of the Ebionites
The evil demon, however, being unable to tear certain others from their allegiance them, for he draws his information largely from Justin Martyr to the Christ of God, yet found them susceptible in a different direction, and so brought them over to his own purposes. The ancients quite properly called these men Ebionites, because they held poor and mean opinions concerning Christ. For they considered him a plain and common man, who was justified only because of his superior virtue, and who was the fruit of the intercourse of a man with Mary. In their opinion the observance of the ceremonial law was altogether necessary, on the ground that they could not be saved by faith in Christ alone and by a corresponding life. There were others, however, besides them, that were of the same name, but avoided the strange and absurd beliefs of the former, and did not deny that the Lord was born of a virgin and of the Holy Spirit. But nevertheless, inasmuch as they also refused to acknowledge that he pre-existed, being God, Word, and Wisdom, they turned aside into the impiety of the former, especially when they, like them, endeavored to observe strictly the bodily worship of the law. These men, moreover, thought that it was necessary to reject all the epistles of the apostle [i.e., Paul], whom they called an apostate from the law; and they used only the so-called Gospel according to the Hebrews and made small account of the rest. The Sabbath and the rest of the discipline of the Jews they observed just like them, but at the same time, like us, they celebrated the Lord's days as a memorial of the resurrection of our Savior. Wherefore, in the consequence of such a course, they received the name of Ebionites, which signified the poverty of their understanding. For this is the name by which a poor man is called in Hebrew. (Eusebius, "Ebionites," Church History 3:27 exceprted A Select Library of Nicene & Post-Nicene Writings of the Christian Church (ed. Philip Schaff & Edward Wace)(Christian Literature Co.: 1890) Vol. 1 at 158-59.)
"
@yahya
ReplyDeleteIf you are going to post something up at least post up the source data like I have. and read the full content. Because it clearly says the other group believed in the resurrection which will destroy the muslim position
"
CHAPTER XXVII.
The Heresy of the Ebionites
The evil demon, however, being unable to tear certain others from their allegiance them, for he draws his information largely from Justin Martyr to the Christ of God, yet found them susceptible in a different direction, and so brought them over to his own purposes. The ancients quite properly called these men Ebionites, because they held poor and mean opinions concerning Christ. For they considered him a plain and common man, who was justified only because of his superior virtue, and who was the fruit of the intercourse of a man with Mary. In their opinion the observance of the ceremonial law was altogether necessary, on the ground that they could not be saved by faith in Christ alone and by a corresponding life. There were others, however, besides them, that were of the same name, but avoided the strange and absurd beliefs of the former, and did not deny that the Lord was born of a virgin and of the Holy Spirit. But nevertheless, inasmuch as they also refused to acknowledge that he pre-existed, being God, Word, and Wisdom, they turned aside into the impiety of the former, especially when they, like them, endeavored to observe strictly the bodily worship of the law. These men, moreover, thought that it was necessary to reject all the epistles of the apostle [i.e., Paul], whom they called an apostate from the law; and they used only the so-called Gospel according to the Hebrews and made small account of the rest. The Sabbath and the rest of the discipline of the Jews they observed just like them, but at the same time, like us, they celebrated the Lord's days as a memorial of the resurrection of our Savior. Wherefore, in the consequence of such a course, they received the name of Ebionites, which signified the poverty of their understanding. For this is the name by which a poor man is called in Hebrew. (Eusebius, "Ebionites," Church History 3:27 exceprted A Select Library of Nicene & Post-Nicene Writings of the Christian Church (ed. Philip Schaff & Edward Wace)(Christian Literature Co.: 1890) Vol. 1 at 158-59.)
"
@yahya
ReplyDeleteboth of the groups of the ebionites still destroy islamic position. Because the other group believed in resurrection
"CHAPTER XXVII.
The Heresy of the Ebionites
The evil demon, however, being unable to tear certain others from their allegiance them, for he draws his information largely from Justin Martyr to the Christ of God, yet found them susceptible in a different direction, and so brought them over to his own purposes. The ancients quite properly called these men Ebionites, because they held poor and mean opinions concerning Christ. For they considered him a plain and common man, who was justified only because of his superior virtue, and who was the fruit of the intercourse of a man with Mary. In their opinion the observance of the ceremonial law was altogether necessary, on the ground that they could not be saved by faith in Christ alone and by a corresponding life. There were others, however, besides them, that were of the same name, but avoided the strange and absurd beliefs of the former, and did not deny that the Lord was born of a virgin and of the Holy Spirit. But nevertheless, inasmuch as they also refused to acknowledge that he pre-existed, being God, Word, and Wisdom, they turned aside into the impiety of the former, especially when they, like them, endeavored to observe strictly the bodily worship of the law. These men, moreover, thought that it was necessary to reject all the epistles of the apostle [i.e., Paul], whom they called an apostate from the law; and they used only the so-called Gospel according to the Hebrews and made small account of the rest. The Sabbath and the rest of the discipline of the Jews they observed just like them, but at the same time, like us, they celebrated the Lord's days as a memorial of the resurrection of our Savior. Wherefore, in the consequence of such a course, they received the name of Ebionites, which signified the poverty of their understanding. For this is the name by which a poor man is called in Hebrew. (Eusebius, "Ebionites," Church History 3:27 exceprted A Select Library of Nicene & Post-Nicene Writings of the Christian Church (ed. Philip Schaff & Edward Wace)(Christian Literature Co.: 1890) Vol. 1 at 158-59.)"
Alpha and Omega Ministries is a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. James White, director, is a professor, having taught Greek, Systematic Theology, and various topics in the field of apologetics for numerous schools. He has authored or contributed to more than twenty four books, including The King James Only Controversy, The Forgotten Trinity, The Potter’s Freedom, The God Who Justifies and What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Qur’an. He is an accomplished debater, having engaged in more than one-hundred thirty moderated, public debates with leading proponents of Roman Catholicism, Islam, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormonism, as well as critics such as Bart Ehrman, John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg, and John Shelby Spong. He is an elder of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.
ReplyDeleteEbionites, or Ebionaioi (Greek: Ἐβιωναῖοι; derived from Hebrew אביונים ebyonim, ebionim, meaning "the poor" or "poor ones"), is a patristic term referring to a Jewish Christian movement that existed during the early centuries of the Christian Era.[1] They regarded Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah while rejecting his divinity[2] and insisted on the necessity of following Jewish law and rites.[3] The Ebionites used only one of the Jewish Gospels, revered James the Just and rejected Paul of Tarsus as an apostate from the Law
ReplyDelete@anonymous
ReplyDeleteYou posted off topic, hence why your comments are unapproved.
This post is not about whether the Ebionites believed in a resurrection story or not. It's a post highlighting the error of James White, and I'd imagine a number of other folk.
There were a group of Ebionites who believed in the Virgin Birth.
As for the resurrection story, which resurrection story do you refer to? Do you refer to this one:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/william-lane-craig-doubts-resurrection.html
We have already seen the Ebionites were not monolithic in there beliefs so to claim they all believed in a resurrection story would be unfair as we are not certain whether they all did...
Peace
PS anonymous, so there is no confusion, not all off topic comments are unapproved. In fact any positive or neutral comments are approved but those comments which appear to be off topic in order to enter a debate, undermine the post or to detract attention from the material in the post are not going to be approved.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a place for people with an anti-Islamic agenda to practice such an agenda.
Peace