Monday 25 April 2011

More Immaturity and Irrelevancy from Anthony Rogers (answeringmuslims.com)

Impressing the boss with his response to this post?

Anthony Rogers begins with a flurry of abuse and chest beating in what appears to be his attempt to emulate and/or impress his mentor/senior colleague Mr Shamoun.

My advice: Anthony Rogers, calm down, you are going to do yourself a hernia. I know you are a little ticked off with this ministry as it has caught your colleagues with their pants down on more than a couple of occasions but do try and keep a sense of balance otherwise your career will funnel down the plug hole. Just ask Mr Shamoun…

Anthony selectively rambling and missing the point

Mr Rogers then rambles on about one portion of the blog post whilst generally ignoring the main thrust of it. He never bothers to tell us why Josephus never recorded Herod’s massacre in Matthew 2:16. He never defends the account in the Jewish War.

Anthony Rogers carping on

He simply bangs on about what we already covered; why scholars believe the Testimonium Flavianum not to be an interpolation. What was the point in that?

We already covered this area by stating:

Other scholars, on the other hand, accept the genuineness of those accounts arguing that they contain points that cannot be reconciled with Christian tradition and they do not reflect a writer with a Christian faith but rather depict him as a doubting onlooker (Williamson, 1974: 396-397). [1]

Perhaps Mr Rogers wanted to fill out his blog post and simply appear to have something of merit and substance. Perhaps that passes for impressing the natives over at AM. I am not sure as to the reason behind his starnge decision-making; I just wish he would refrain from such a "tactic" as it benefits nobody who has the capacity to think critically.

Much to do about nothing, Anthony

Mr Rogers gives the impression the quotes used were from me (Yahya Snow). They were not. If he had bothered to look closely he will have noticed the citation. Dr Loauy Fatoohi’s book was the reference. I guess Rogers, in his zeal to impugn the tormenter of his mentors/senior colleagues, failed to notice such.

In any case, Rogers, unsurprisingly, had no genuine point against Dr Louay Fatoohi either.

Anthony Rogers gets downright absurd

This is a sad indictment on the state of Christian internet apologists. Bizarrely, our Anthony, claims it refutes the Quran?!?!?!. No kidding you, this guy went there!!!

I suppose the thought of context left his mind as he appealed to Quran 4:157. Did he ever stop to think the Jews could have appended those titles to Jesus out of sarcasm as a form of mockery or the titles are due to paraphrasing from the Author (God)? The sarcasm point is similar to the passage where Jesus was allegedly mocked in Mark 15:16-20 with the title of “king of the Jews”.

Beneficial article and his citations of Maududi’s Tafsir:

http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/Refuting_Answering_Deedat_1_.html

Even if Jews sincerely called Jesus by such titles it would have NO bearing upon the blog post as it simply repeats one of the reasons as to why the critics doubt the passage in Josephus was interpolated whilst travelling in a culture of dishonesty amongst the scribes. I guess this was lost on Mr Rogers.

Kicking the dead carcass further

Mr. Rogers’ bizarre line of “reasoning” in his “refuting of the Quran” based on what Jews would have said can be transferred over to the Gospel accounts as Jesus was called “King of the Jews” by folk who you would not associate such statement making.

I guess Rogers, if he was to be consistently devoid of an ability to discern context will have to celebrate his unwitting refutation of the New Testament.

Summary and advice for Anthony Rogers

-Anthony, Dr Fatoohi cited three principles as to which critics doubt the authenticity of the Testimonium Flavianum. It was not me – stay focussed!

-Dr Fatoohi’s principles still stand – these are what critics use to argue against the validity of the passage. Despite your blogging and chest-beating these still stand.

-Josephus is a historian, thus his calling Jesus by the title of Messiah would reflect his personal belief rather than sarcasm or any other form of description which did not resonate with Josephus. In short, Josephus’ calling of Jesus as Messiah would be considered different to those appending titles to Jesus in Mark 15:16-20 and Quran 4:157. Get with the program, Anthony.

-Anthony, you failed to adequately cover the main point to the post; why did Josephus fail to mention Herod’s massacre of young boys despite chronicling Herod’s brutal history.

-You did not bother to defend the passage in the JW. Do you believe your preceding co-religionists forged this document in a similar manner as to their forging of the Gospels?

-Anthony, rather than quote mining from my posts please be a little more considered and scholarly in your approach.

-Oh, please drop the overly aggressive and immature attitude. It suits Sam as it is his wont. It does not suit you as you simply appear to be a pale imitation of your mentor/senior colleague. Think about it.

-PS May I suggest in your writings, you add the title of “peace be upon Jesus” after his name or at the end of the post to show a little extra respect. Thanks.

May God send His Peace and blessings upon Jesus and all the other Messengers of God.

Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens iron.

[1] Original article

Feedback: yahyasnow@hotmail.com

Related:

Jesus has Muslim brothers/sisters

The incarnation?

Original sin?

Learn about Islam

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

Did he ever stop to think the Jews could have appended those titles to Jesus out of sarcasm as a form of mockery or the titles are due to paraphrasing from the Author (God)?

Are the Jews also being "sarcastic" about Jesus being the "Son of Mary" in that verse?

And when THE ROMAN named PILATE ordered the "King of the Jews" plaque on Jesus' cross, that was supposed to be a INSULT to the Jews, if yall missed that one.

Anonymous said...

It might have been an insult to the Jews, but that doesn't stop it from being sarcastic against Jesus (pbuh).

ANSWERINGMUSLIMS said...

BAGHDAD—An Iraqi police official says seven people have been wounded by a roadside bomb outside the entrance of a Baghdad church.

The official says the blast took place Sunday just yards (meters) from the Sacred Heart Church in Baghdad's Karradah neighborhood. Shrapnel from the bomb struck the outside of the building.

The officer said no parishioners were inside and services had not been held in the building.

Four policemen and three civilian bystanders were wounded.

Iraqi security forces are on high alert for any violence targeting Iraq's beleaguered Christian community this Easter. Iraqi Christians have faced a recent wave of violence, including an attack last year against a Baghdad church that killed 68 people.

The officer declined to be identified because he was not authorized to brief the media. (Source)

ANSWERINGMUSLIMS said...

Yesterday, Judge Mark Somers (the same judge whose blunder got Negeen convicted) put a price tag on Freedom of Speech. Pastor Terry Jones would have to post a "peace bond" ($100,000, according to Jones) in order to hold his planned protest against Sharia in Dearborn. When Jones refused to pay the bond, Judge Somers declared that Jones would have to face a jury. The jury decided that a protest outside America's largest mosque would be likely to "breach the peace." Thus, Jones is not allowed to hold a protest on public property outside the Islamic Center of North America.

Jones has repeatedly stated that he will protest there regardless of the court's decision. Hence, if police make the mistake of enforcing the court's ruling, Pastor Jones and Pastor Wayne Sapp will be the fifth and sixth persons arrested in Dearborn and sent to jail for exercising their Constitutionally protected free speech rights in Dearborn.

I feel a video coming on . . .

***UPDATE*** Just when you thought Dearborn couldn't make a bigger mistake, Judge Somers ordered Jones and Sapp to be taken to jail (since they each refused to post a $1 bond).

***UPDATE*** Jones and Sapp each posted their $1 bond and were released.

Anonymous said...

It might have been an insult to the Jews, but that doesn't stop it from being sarcastic against Jesus (pbuh).

No, I dont think it was at all sarcastic against Jesus because Jesus in fact IS the KING OF THE JEWS as He claimed to be in real life and history. But on the other hand ARE you really telling me that the Jews were in fact being sarcastic when they said Jesus is the "SON OF MARY" in S. 4;157-8??? That was all a big joke and Jesus really is NOT the son of Mary? Contextually that is what you get, using that "sarcasm" method. And this stuff about Allah "paraphrasing" - you have GOT to be kidding!!! Funniest stuff I read.

Radical Moderate said...

Christians liberate over 100,000 slaves owned by Arab Muslim, and a Jewish Rabbi teaches them how to celebrate Passover.

Was this in the middle ages, NO it was with in the last 20 years.

Yahya I guess this is another isolated case of Muslims not getting your Memo.

When is Islam going to end slavery, seems like this is another case where Muslims are once again woefully behind the civilized world.

But you can help Muslims, by donating 109 dollars, to a Christian charity (sorry no Muslim charities involved in freeing slaves) you can free a slave, donations are tax deductible.

So what say you, how many slaves are you going to free Muslims.

Free A slave

Yahya Snow said...

@Radical Moderate

100,000? That's an awful lot...

This better not be a case of you presenting dodgy maths again (aka presenting lies)

A one off - isolated case relatively speaking.

BTW I just heard your call to ABN - you delivered a request for Dave to apologise for the his thighing lies. He did not apolgise and Sam got on his high horse and began to beat his chest due to some "files" on his computer that need translating. (Not: thesefiles have been on his computer for MONTHS - he messaged me about them a while back - he still has not released them)

I just want to ask you - which Muslim were you acting as proxy for?

How long ago was that? 2 months?

Going back to freeing slaves. Yes, freeing slaves is a good thing. Do you know in the Bible slaves are instructed to obey their slave masters?

Thanks

Radical Moderate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Radical Moderate said...

@Yahya

The Muslim was Abdul

Radical Moderate said...

@Yahya Snow

You said..,
"Going back to freeing slaves. Yes, freeing slaves is a good thing. Do you know in the Bible slaves are instructed to obey their slave masters?"

Yes we Christians are ordered to obey authority. Are you saying Muslim slaves are not ordered to obey authority? Are you saying that Muslim slaves are ordered to disobey there masters, told to rebel against them?

Well I'm glad you think Islam teaches to free slaves. So how many slaves are you going to free with your donation?

Yahya Snow said...

@Radical Moderate

I don't knw whether you have any spare cash to donate as you seem to be wasting it on "Christian apologists" who are having a hard time due to their past lies and shoddy behaviour.

You said ti was a Christian charity - I primarily donate to Muslim charities.

I have not checked this Christian charity. Are they trying to convert folk to believe in the Bible via "rice convert" tactics?

Can you find a Muslim charity who do similar things? I would advise you to give to the Muslim charity as well.

Find one and lets get donating!!!

Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another

PS how long ago was it? Why has Shamoun not put his files on show?

Radical Moderate said...

@Yahya snow

You said ...
"Can you find a Muslim charity who do similar things? I would advise you to give to the Muslim charity as well."

So you want me to find a Muslim Charity that is freeing slaves from MUSLIM slave holders.

Yeah I don't think that is going to happen. One thing I have noticed about Muslims charities is that unlike Christian Charities who provide for those regardless of their faith.

They support Muslim widows and orphans. Sounds nice but the reason they are Widows and Orphans in the first place is because Muslims are turned into Bombs by other Muslims.

Now this charity actually freed a Muslima, well she was a christian before but was forced to convert to Islam after she was repeatly raped. But hey a revert is a revert to Muslims you take them where you can find them, with out any discernment.

So again I ask you how many Slaves are you going to free?

Anonymous said...

This is the Anon who posted earlier about Jesus and the "King of the Jews", I am sorry I have written something incorrectly. Yahya is right when he says that the Jews mocked Jesus in the Gospel by saying to Him, "Hail King of the Jews" - I was thinking of that exact chapter but a few verses down, where it says:

31 So also the chief priests with the scribes mocked him to one another, saying, p“He saved others; qhe cannot save himself. Mt 15

My bad my bad, but that does not change anything and Yahya's standard still refutes the Quran.

Radical Moderate said...

@Anon

You just put blood in the water

Yahya Snow said...

@anon

I'm not sure what's going on with who you believe mocked Jesus or not. The folk I refer to are indeed the soldiers. Roman soldiers mocked Jesus (see the passages cited) with a term which would not be associated with them. Thus, using Anthony's standard this refutes the Gospel account.

His standard is silly, thus I shall not use it to argue against the Gospels as mockery does not mean one believes the words being put forth.

Perhaps Anthony takes everytinh in a serious fashion...

Yahya Snow said...

@ Radical Moderate

Yes we know Christians are told to obey authority. We discussed this (Romans) and used it as a proof text to show Christians should pay their Jizyah according to the Bible as well as submitting to Sharia when in Muslim lands.

Wuite why we have som many crazed Islamophobes of the Christian disposition blabbering aginast sharia and their current government (Obama) is beyond us. Actually, it's not - Christians just don't take their Bible seriously hence their dismissal of the teachings of obeying those in charge.

As for slaves having to obey their masters. Ephesians 6:5

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. [NIV]

Now I understand the obeying part. Obviously this means the slaves should be obedient and that slavery was not abolished by the Bible. Thus the Muslim slave keeper is doing nothing wrong according to the Bible.

However, I don't understand why your bible (NT) is telling slaves to fear [FEAR] their slave masters...

Interesting to see the Bible agrees with the behaviour of this Muslim. Do the slaves fear [FEAR] and obey him? If they do then fundamentalist Christians wuill be happy as it means they are keeping in line with the Bible's teachings...

Radical Moderate said...

@yahya snow

Tell you what, you find me a Muslim charity that is going to free Muslim slaves from Christian slave owners and I will donate.

But until then how many Christian slaves will you free from Muslim slave owners, how many can I put you down for?

Anonymous said...

Yahya, I dont think you quite understand what happened. It is YOUR standard which you first used on some extrabiblical book written by a Jew which has no real merit in Biblical Christianity. Mr. Anthony took your standard, (Jews dont think Jesus is Messiah, Josephus included the word Messiah and is a Jew, therefore Josephus did not write the TF) and simply used it against your Quran.

If the Romans or the Jews mocked Jesus IN THE GOSPEL, and which words they used, has no bearing on the fact that the Jews called Jesus their Messiah AND the Son of Mary in S. 4;157. If you want to argue that that the Jews in that S. were being "sarcastic" by mocking Him, please explain to me if they were sarcastic about Jesus being the Son of Mary.

Perhaps Anthony takes everytinh in a serious fashion...

Well my friend, I don't know what He is to you, but God is no laughing matter, and I thank God there are men out there that do take things concerning God seriously, to heart, and expose people such as yourself. They teach me how to.

I do not think you can squirm out of this one. it was, after all, your own standard you used to try and show Christians how ancient Christians corrupted their own texts. Anthony took your standard, and used it to show you how the "perfectly preserved recitation on a tablet from Allah, that never changes, brought down by Gabriel" Qur'an, has glaring mistakes and historical inconsistencies, indicating corruption and human influence. And remember, we have REVELATION from God. You supposedly have some al Lawh al Mahfuz in heaven. Questionable? I think so...

Anonymous said...

Correction:

it was, after all, your own standard you used to try and show Christians how ancient Christians corrupted their own texts.

should be

it was, after all, your own standard you used to try and show Christians how ancient Christians corrupted texts.

Anonymous said...

We discussed this (Romans) and used it as a proof text to show Christians should pay their Jizyah according to the Bible as well as submitting to Sharia when in Muslim lands.

Christians just don't take their Bible seriously hence their dismissal of the teachings of obeying those in charge.


Yahya. We are supposed to submit to authority. Not oppression and evil. I will give money to Ceasar as a tax to help the land ANY DAY, but I will not give my soul away by submitting to humiliation in the form of a dhimmi tax, just because Im of a different religion.

We must obey God rather than men Acts 5.

Yahya Snow said...

To Anthony

I hope you read this. I do want to respond to your response - it was a little more appealing than your previous effort.

Time permitting I will try (no promises) to upload something before going back to work after the royal wedding bank holiday.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

Dawagandist Refutes the Quran part 2