Wednesday, 12 February 2014

Repost of Weird Occurence During Zawadi-White Debate

I noticed an external link to an old blog post of mine, thought I'd repost it to keep this blog ticking, here it is:

Here we go, it seems the latest instalment of Sam Shamoun Sunday is a little light-hearted. It appears our Sam was firing off frantic advice/arguments/responses (whatever the case may be) to James White DURING his debate with Br. Bassam Zawadi.

I’m not kidding you. It looks like our Sam was attempting to debate via proxy. I guess he was not so confident in White’s ability/performance thus decided to email. [For the dishonest man who has a history of misconstruing my words in order to deflect away from his dishonest episodes – I am suggesting this appears to be the case – imo]

As you know, I’m not Dave Wood so I don’t’ make stuff up – I have the audio for you to decide… (There is a bonus clip where Shamoun shows his inability to discern correctly)

Learning from the dishonest and unscholarly?

That's our Sam

Quite what Sam Shamoun hopes to add to the debate is beyond me. This man is uneducated and dishonest to an extreme. This bloke peddles lies such as sex hoaxes, claims of bestiality, cross-dressing and other products of his debauched mind. (See the Sam Shamoun section)

Sam Shamoun’s latest outrageous blunder: We had to educate him in Hebrew and Arabic so he would desist from spreading offensively absurd lies which were blasphemies according to Arab CHRISTIANS!

When he is not spreading lies, this is the extent of the man’s argumentation.

No self respecting truth-seeker would “learn” from him.

We have a maxim which essentially goes; be wary of whom you learn from [1]. It is so potent with regards to some of the unqualified and uneducated folk on the internet. Judging by Shamoun’s limited vocabulary, lack of sound decorum, utter inability to reason rationally and think critically I posit the idea he has never been to university or received any formal instruction in matters pertaining to faith. I bet I’m correct.

James White never learns

Now, James did not have time to assess the “delights” our Sam was emailing over to London during the break but the fact James bothers with this man’s emails in the midst of a debate suggests James could possibly have received “instruction” from our Sam prior to the debate.

Now we know what happened last time James was reliant on Sam Shamoun – Sam Shamoun made him look like a dishonest and unscholarly amateur. I proceeded to correct this man’s bout of jahaliya (ignorance) and his pride overwhelmed him. Thus, White claimed he and Sam were correct despite all the dictionaries, translators and experts telling him he was wrong. Here is a summary of the sad episode.

You’d have thought he would have dumped Shamoun, he clearly has not. Some people never learn. As Sheikh Qaradawi stated, there are two types of ignorant folk; those who are ignorant and know it and those who have a compound ignorance (they think they have knowledge when in reality, they know next to nothing).

White falls into the category of compound ignorance, this man is even writing a book about Islam. Last I checked on the bloke, he was asking people to buy him the books so he could write his book. I’m not kidding, see here.

Does the Quran misrepresent Christianity?

I have not viewed the debate yet but I do plan to review it some time this calendar year (I hope to review all Br. Bassam Zawadi’s debates this year as well as some imam Shabir Ally and Yusuf Ismail material, Insha’Allah it will be beneficial for the online brothers and sisters).

The problem James White would encounter is that it would be impossible for him to make a positive claim stick as the immediate Christian audience are thought to have different (“heretical”) beliefs.

I mean, does White’s denomination believe in a Prophet who was imminent in Medina in the 7th century? According to Salman al Farsi this was the belief of his last Christian guide [2]. Bahira the monk seems to have been on a similar pattern of belief [3]. The same belief structure could be attributed to Waraqa Bin Naufal who recognises the incident in the cave as the visitation of Al Namus Al Akbar [4].

The "Christianity" Prophet Muhammad (p) encountered would have differed from the way we consider Christianity today. This is essentially what the orientalists Foster and Margoliouth believed, the latter compares such "Christians" to heathens!

Foster, erroneously believing the Prophet received instruction from the surrounding Christians “suggests the type of Christian ideas Muhammad received were from the Gnostics”. [5]

"Margoliouth shares similar view, that the Christians in those days were not that committed and in many cases not very different from the heathen [5]

So you can see White’s difficulty in putting forward a positive case based upon his view of Christianity.

So White had an impossible task as consistency, accuracy and fair scholarship would all have gone out of the window if he genuinely tried to make his argumentation stick. If he just rattled off drivel from Sam Shamoun’s website then that would have been anti-scholarship. I'm pretty confident Br. Bassam Zawadi would have come across in a more positive light than his Christian counterpart.

However, TGV did state it was an interesting debate.

There is an insightful paper on the subject of Christians in the Quran and the Sunna by the scholar Ahmad Von Denffer (published by the Islamic foundation).

Facts for the Honest Not for the Dishonest

Just for the dishonest and disingenuous (Radical Moderate and co.) who tried to pass off the insults to Mormon and Russian women as no big deal…

Well, it appears CHRISTIANS are calling it an act of misogyny and they are up in arms at James White’s (and Rich Pierce’s) offensive remarks – including a female supporter of aomin – tell them it’s no big deal!

Kudos to the sincere Christian, minoria, who immediately denounced the comments as “sinful”.
PS, our rebuke made mention of Sam Shamoun who (despite there being no pictures of the wives of Prophet Muhammad, p) insults these saintly women in a similar vain – in fact worse.

Why is it left to the Muslims to clean up Christian ministries? It speaks volumes in telling us who is actually on the truth.

Let's talk Nabeel and Dave

Talking about cleaning up the ministries, let’s talk Nabeel Qureshi and David Wood. Just in case you missed their more recent episodes of outrage.

Here is Nabeel Qureshi presenting a lie within a church setting – a lie which will knock the informed and truthful off their feet, a lie which comes with its own health warning - Nabeel, made his OWN hadith up:

Nabeel’s dishonesty is geared towards converting people but Dave Wood’s deception is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Dave looks to dehumanize Muslims. We caught this dishonest man claiming the Quran instructs Muslims to kill, torture, crucify Christians who fix church roofs or wear crosses. I’m not kidding you, he really peddles such fabrication as fact:

Last I checked on these two chaps, they were planning a "conference" on Islam. The blind leading the blind! What were we saying about ignorance?

Anti-Calvinists Attack James White rather than rethink their belief in the Holy Spirit

It appears our latest video featuring James White’s exegesis of 2 Corinthians 4:4 has left Christian folk red faced and has subsequently led them to bash White and Calvinism. Why? Why denounce your co-religionist when the underpinning problem is the Christian belief in the Holy Spirit. This was quite evident in the video. Sadly, some folk have a desire to deflect attention from the problematic nature of their belief in the Holy Spirit rather than rethinking it.

Here is our video and here is the Christian attacking James White (with a clip from our video – Jordan Day’s initially)!!!

James White claiming he knows Arabic

CHRISTIANS (see comment section here) are claiming James White has claimed to know Arabic on his Face Book - they are suspecting him of dishonesty.

White does not know Arabic. IF these Christians are correct then White is not being straight forward. I ask him to correct such information. I don’t want to waste time looking into it…

UPDATE: We have investigated this - HE has claimed to know Arabic:
Recently I corrected Sam Shamoun in Hebrew – I would never claim to know Hebrew. Even if you know how to read a language it does not mean you know the language.

More dishonesty from Christian apologists

I have just found material from Kent Hovind – he was presenting some absurd Chick Publication lies about Islam. Considering the deceptive episodes above and old Kent Hovind, we need to push lay Christians into holding their “representatives” to greater account.

At this ministry we investigate Christian outreaches to Muslims; thus far, every single outreach we have investigated has failed. The criteria we generally use are that of accuracy, honesty, consistency and the ability to act with a modicum of decorum.

Again, christian apologetics is shown to be lacking in a genuine desire for accuracy and meaningful interaction as well as moral probity.

Sadly all have failed.

Ergun Caner to debate a Muslim?

He seems to be getting himself together. Perhaps, those who debate, amongst the students of knowledge/scholars (especially those in North america), would like to issue a challenge his way. It does get boring listening to the same school of Christian debaters. I advance the notion; folks at Liberty University have greater followings than the Christian camp Muslim debaters are currently plundering opponents from. Just a thought…go on, put the cat amongst the pigeons, you know you want to!

Get on the blower to SBC's Peter Lumpkins and get it arranged, pronto!   :)

May Allah send his peace and blessing upon the last Messenger of Allah. May Allah reward all those involved in dawah and guide us all. Ameen.

Invitation to Islam

Would you like a relationship with your Creator? Would you like to worship the God of Jesus – the same God that Jesus worshipped? Would you like to become a brother/sister of Jesus? If yes, come to Islam.

Bible: Muslims are blessed


[1] Thus knowledge constitutes your deen (religion), so be wary of whom you take your religion from – Ibn Sirin [Ibn Hibban credited this statement to other scholars too]

[2] Men and women Around the Messenger, Sa’d Yusuf Abu Aziz, Darussalam, 2009, p292

[3] The encounter with Bahira is mentioned in Ibn Hisham’s Sira rasul Allah and Ibn Sa’d’s Tabaqat.

[4] Ibn Sa’d, Vol 1 pp225

[5] Image of the Prophet Muhammad in the West, Jabal Muhammad Buaben, The Islamic Foundation, 1996. p77 [For those who study works of the orientalists, you will find this work to be very useful in indentifying themes adopted by Muir, Margoliouth, and Watt]


Yahya Snow said...


Please stop commenting on this blog so regularly in such a negative and confrontational way.

Have you been banned from Paul Williams' hence why you are spending so much time here?

Look, I have to juice a few carrots, shower, pray, eat and try to follow the Liverpool-Fulham match tonight as well as do some studying plus possibly organise for a project tomorrow. Oh and in the thick of it, try to find decent content for my apologetics stuff.

In short, I am really busy. Please understand.

Until you change your attitude then I cannot spare much time for you.


Anonymous said...