Sunday, 5 September 2010

Muslims Rebuke Dr James White

Right, for those who want a quick backdrop as to why Muslims are rebuking James White I will inform you White, in his debate with Sheikh Awal, claimed Allah repents in Surah 2:37 and he (White) was later taken to task on this issue and his odd claim was styled a “lie” as NO translation of the Quran agreed with James White’s assertion. Sheikh Awal was stunned and confused over White’s bizarre proclamation too.

Subsequently James White was harshly rebuked (see here) and criticised for being inconsistent and inaccurate. White responded by claiming he was RIGHT (even though ALL the expert translators of the Verse disagreed with him). White cited a bloke from a missionary website as proof he was RIGHT and thus all the EXPERTS WERE WRONG!!! See Appendix 1 for the article in which James White is adamant he is right (and thus EVERY expert translator is incorrect), evocatively titled as “Facts for the Honest (To Be Ignored by the Dishonest)”

Muslim Apologist, 1MoreMuslim, Gives James White a lesson in Arabic grammar and a Stern Ticking Off

The latest (and final) chapter was an Arabic speaker giving James White a lesson in Arabic grammar and REBUKING James White and confirming what we all KNEW – that James White is in the wrong. It's time for White to come clean and up his level of scholarship. Here is 1MoreMuslim’s rebuke and lesson directed at James White:

Conclusion – White involved himself in inaccurate and inconsistent scholarship

James White shunned ALL expert translations and translators in favour of a bloke on the internet who is NOT qualified in Arabic. Once James White was found out he adamantly insisted he was RIGHT and started accusing those who found him out of dishonesty. James White was left with no hiding place after 1MoreMuslim exposed his dodgy internet translation to be grammatically incorrect.

White KNOWS he cannot just go around eschewing (shunning) expert scholarship and translations in favour of a dodgy missionary translation on the internet as this is inconsistent and intellectually dishonest. White KNOWS this but his pride fails to allow him to admit to his error.
White is being inconsistent. To paraphrase James White; inconsistency is the sign of a failed argument and a failed faith too.

If White deceived you with his helping of inaccuracy please contact him and let him know of your disapproval.

May God guide us all and may God bless those who took part in bringing James White’s misinformation, inconsistency and unreliability to the fore. Ameen.

Contact the author of this piece:

Appendix 1

James White’s fallacious article in its entirety:

Facts for the Honest (To Be Ignored by the Dishonest)
06/25/2010 - James White
For the few who are interested in the brief statement I made (styled a "lie" by the PPO&D, the "promoters of perpetual outrage and dishonesty"---a new term I have quoted for a certain very small, very irrelevant, but very vocal group of Muslim trouble-makers) at one point in the debate with Sheikh Awal, pointing out the contradiction between his asserting the Bible cannot be the Word of God because God "repents" (the Hebrew is nacham) and the fact that Allah is described as "oft-repenting." I made reference to Surah 2:37 simply because it was the first in a long list of substantiating texts. It says: "Then Adam received commandments from his Lord, and his Lord repented (fataba) towards him; for He is Oft-Repenting (huwa al-tawwabu), Most Merciful." He is oft-repenting. What's so difficult to understand? Well, it's simple: Muslims, as I demonstrated over and over again a few days ago, have one standard for the Bible, another standard for the Qur'an. "Oh, well, in the Qur'an, that means..." and off they go. But, if you attempt to explain that nacham likewise has a contextual meaning in the Bible, they ignore your explanation. So, the Qur'an can be explained, the Bible cannot. Double standards. Inconsistency. Sign of a failed argument, and in this case, a failed religion.

Want to read more? The Assyrian Encyclopedia (I evidently am in the name-creating mood this evening), Sam Shamoun, has laid it out clearly here. Read. Learn.

Appendix 2

Encouragement to learn about Islam:

The Brothers of Jesus: Who are they?

Which incarnation? I personally feel both beliefs of incarnation are gateways to paganism:

Find 1MoreMuslim here:


Anonymous said...

Islam is disproven because the Koran teaches that Jesus was born of a virgin. Where'd Mohammed get that from? From Matthew chapter 1. Where'd Matthew get it from? He made it up on the basis of a lying and purposeful misinterpretation of Isaiah 7.

Now then, o ye people of the Koran, why did you not believe us when we showed you that your book is not of Allah? Repent and turn from serving a book written by a deceived illiterate, and serve Allah in truth! (i.e. be a Deist)

For indeed, Matthew bases his claim that Jesus was born of a virgin on Isaiah 7:14 "Behold the LORD himself will give you a sing: a virgin will conceive and bear a son" and Mohammed follows Matthew's blunder.

But in Isaiah 7 the prophecy is not about Jesus, nor about any long distant future time (o people of the book and people of the Koran give heed, for we speak truth) but is about when two kings who live in Isaiah's own time will be defeated.

Ahaz is being attacked by Pekkah son of Remaliah king of Israel who is based in Samaria, and by Rezin king of Syria bases in Damascus. And he fears greatly (as you should fear, ye people of the Koran).

And Isaiah is sent by Yahweh to tell him not to fear for the kings will not defeat him, but he does not believe. And Isaiah gives him a chance to choose a sign to prove that God will protect him from these kings, but he refuses to choose a sign.

So Isaiah says, "Behold the LORD himself will give you a sign: a virgin shall conceive and bear a son" -- this is not Jesus, this is not Isa -- for what is the sign about??

He says further if you continue reading in Isaiah 7:15-16 that between the birth of this virgin-born child and the time he comes to a knowledge of good and evil the two kings (then alive) will be defeated by Assyria!!!

"For before this child knows to choose good and refuse evil, the land you hate will be deserted by both its kings, for I will shave the land close with a hired razor, the king of Assyria"

The sign is when the two kings will be defeated, in Ahaz and Isaiah's only time!!!!!!!! And in chapter 8, Isaiah declares that God declared to him that the promised child was a child born before his very eyes, Mahershalalhashbaz!!!!!!

You are decieved then, o people of the Koran, as much as the people of the book are, for Isa was not the child promised to be born of a virgin, but Mahershalalhashbaz who was born much earlier was the child!!!!!

Your Koran is written by an illiterate and you are on the path to Jehennam!!!!!! Repent ye of your obstinance against God, and your idiocy!!!!

Anonymous said...
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thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of God, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

Beowulf2k8 makes a good point; however this presupposes that the statement in the Qur'an is dependent upon a false translation of the Hebrew text into Greek (otherwise known as the Septuagint).

It presupposes that Jesus could indeed have been born of a virgin, but that those desperate to make a connection between Christianity and Judaism to stave off allegations that the OT God is different than that of the NT (namely Marcionism) that these people were looking for 'proof text'.

It's a descent attempt beowulf2k8 but not quite right.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

The other 'argument' if you want to call it that has been soundly refuted by Islamic scholarship time and again.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

@ Brother Yahya.

Brother can you please check my latest post on the master debate list and tell me if there are any Bio information for brother's Bassam Zawadi and Osama Abdullah so I may include it where appropriate.

Also information for Samuel Green, jazak'Allahu khayran.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, I don't understand your reply. This has nothing to do with the translation of the Septuagint. Whether the word 'almah' means 'virgin' or 'young woman' is irrelevant. I'm not quibbling over that word in Isaiah 7:14, but showing that the prophecy was intended to be fulfilled in the time in which it was given, that it was a sign of when two kings living at that time would be defeated, and that the prophet himself declared in chapter 8 that the prophecy WAS fulfilled before his very eyes with the birth of Mahershalalhashbaz.

As a result, Isa could not be the fulfillment, and Matthew is just making up the story of Jesus being born of a virgin based on his misinterpretation of the prophecy.

And yes, he made the story up as a way of 'suring up' the case against Marcionism, since Marcionism both rejected the Old Testament AND taught that Jesus was not born at all but descended from heaven directly.

Thus, no virgin birth of Isa/Jesus took place. It is a fictional story totally made up, and by continuing to teach this story, the Koran shows that it is indebted to the foolish fictional concoctions of men, and is NOT the word of Allah.

Yahya Snow said...

Assalamualaikum TGV

Amazingly thorough post.

You can get a good bio for the excellent Bassam Zawadi from Paul Williams' intro here (first 4mins):

As for Osama Abdallah, there is an audio version of a brief bio for him - the intro from one of his debates with Qureshi:

There is a Muslim gentleman named Paul Williams who does debate too. His style is less to do with polemics and more to do with a careful and considered approach - this makes him more palatable to those who have opposing views.

May Allah bless you further. Please do not forget to make dua for myself and the rest of the Muslims who are engaging in dawah over the internet

Anonymousing said...

Wait a second!!! U muslims are suuuuuuuuch hippocrites!!!

Maybe we should take Awal to town when he said during the debate, QUOTE:


or when he said

"Athanasius the BISHOP of Nicaea"!!! yahya yahya....

you just dont get it do you?