Is the Holy Spirit Jesus’ God?
Right, we know Christians believe Jesus had a human nature as well as a divine nature (“the god-man”). You’d think Christians would believe the Holy Spirit, the Son and the Father were ALL the God of the human nature of Jesus as Christians believe all three to be “persons” of God. However, Christian beliefs to do with the Holy Spirit and the Trinity in general never cease to baffle.
One Christian apologist, in response to this difficulty wrote:
The Holy Spirit did not become Christ’s God at the Incarnation. Rather, it is the Father alone who became and continues to be the God of Christ
Yes, it does not make sense at all. Welcome to the world of the Trinity and Incarnation.
After a fair amount of illogical scribbling our Christian friend concludes:
In light of this, the Son does not submit to the Holy Spirit as his God despite the fact that he was dependent upon God’s Spirit to guide and empower him during his earthly ministry, since it was the Father who had decreed that such would be the case. Rather, it is the Father alone that the Son submits to and honors as his God since it was the Father who sent him and it was his will which Christ came into the world to accomplish. The Holy Spirit was sent to assist Christ to perfectly carry out the mission which the Father sent him to do.
Talk about illogical to the extent of absurd.
The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father too! Surely, by the way of extended logic this apologist should ONLY believe the Father (abba) to be God as He is very much in charge by sending both Jesus and the Holy Spirit!
The Truth is right underneath this apologist’s nose – that BOTH Jesus and the Holy Spirit have a God – hence are not God
Here is their belief in the Holy Spirit tying them in further knots
An appeal to Abrahamic monotheism
God has given you reasoning. You must put this in use rather than blindly following the argumentations of apologists who agree with your worldview.
Do you believe in the incarnation?
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8 comments:
I feel like I have been robbed. You told me you were prevented by circumstances from getting around to posting your "scholarly" reply to Mr. Rogers, and instead you put up this fluff piece that does little more than tell us that the God of the Bible "baffles" you.
Come on, Yahya...can't we get something of substance from you. Put up the piece in response to brother Anthony then we can watch the fireworks fly.
Please, pretty please.
Jesus is Lord
With the name of Allah, Peace be upon those who follow the guidance from their Lord.
You know 'Anonymous' Yahya will probably get around to responding to Charles Martel at about the same time he gets around to responding to my material.....
so do be patient these things take time...
:)
I don't recall anything from you he didn't already reply to, but I don't think anyone is interested in his interactions with you. Sorry you were trying to insert yourself in here as if you were something, but you are really not important as far as these things go. Just sit back with rest of us and enjoy the show; you don't need to be on stage.
Jesus is risen. He is risen indeed!
@anonymous,
Firstly your belittling of others, namely TGV - Rogers has NOT responded to his material. If you want to cheer for the bloke, please do it accurately.
I assume you learned such a WEE style approach from Mr Shamoun. You do realise the apologist referenced in this article is indeed Mr Shamoun.
Did he tell you to pass his absurd reasoning (which amounts to no less than making it up as he goes along) off as "fluf"?
There are a number of serious points being made in the "fluff piece". The sincere will recognise them whilst the insincere will pass them off as "fluff" and detract attention away from the holes in the Trinity. But hey, its your salvation on the line, if you'd rather keep your head in the sand via obfuscation and detraction, that's down to you.
As for your champion, Mr Rogers, he was found wanting here:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/search/label/Incarnation
You can dismiss that piece and the genuine challenges of TGV as Mr Rogers is an expert in presenting controversial and PERSONAL views on the OT whilst rummaging through Targums in multi-part articles.
The fact remains, at this ministry when responses are forthcoming they are thorough and offer closure to the discussion. Expect that. Do not expect fireworks.
If you want to see fireworks please wait for November the 5th or a New Year's celebration.
I find it interesting you are responding with comments affirming your faith in Jesus (as God) whilst the house is tumbling down around you. The house that is the Trinity. We have already seen, by the aid of Mr Shamoun, the Holy Spirit and Jesus have a God.
I suggest you worship their God. The God of us all - Allah.
I invite you to Islam. You can sit around looking for fireworks or you can opt for the more logical and scholarly approach that we are nudging folk to.
Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpnes another - Proverbs
Why are you guys so given to rhetoric and assume that amounts to substance? Rhetoric has its place, but the point is not for it to displace substance but for it to enhance the communication and delivery of substantive arguments.
Bring forth your material, and let us see if you have anything better than to say Mr. Rogers "rummages through Targums", as if the Targums were written by him and could be passed off as his "personal" views.
Iron is stronger than copper as one man's arguments are stronger than another man's rhetoric.
P.S. I remember finding it more than a little strange (and quite telling) that you closed the comments section on the article where you pretended to be responding to Mr. Rogers well articulated case for a problem with Islam's view of God and revelation.
Rise up, O Word of the Lord, and let your enemies be scattered!
//Rise up, O Word of the Lord, and let your enemies be scattered!//
Christians blaspheme the Bible so much. And they whine when we challenege Christianity.
How was my statement an example of blaspheming the Bible? I didn't even say anything about the Bible.
Seems the Folks at Liberty Listen to the Dividing Line....
03/04/2011 - James White
Last night Ergun Caner's endorsement was listed at http://www.adeadlymisunderstanding.com/endorsements.php. This afternoon we were just informed that it has been removed, and, it has. Of course, that hardly can impact the print editions that are still out there, but since I have heard of a second edition coming out, maybe it will disappear from there? I will be interested to see if Caner makes any kind of statement and, even more so, if he bothers to explain how he could be in the acknowledgements as having done editing work on the book. If he has removed his endorsement, why? We would all like to know.
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