Saturday, 27 November 2010

Jizya is NOT Scary [Jizyah]

Being misinformed over the Jizya

I have been watching a Chaldean Christian Satellite station (ABN Sat) and they have been prattling on about the Jizya as though it is the most obnoxious and evil thing on the planet. These Islamophobes will pull the wool over the eyes of their own folk in order to present Islam as a scary monster.

The fact remains, there is nothing wrong with the Jizya and it has been explained many times over. This post will bring you a presentation from Imam Shabir Ally (Let the Quran speak)on the Jizya. I have also presented the basics which EVERY Muslim and Non-Muslim should be aware of in order NOT to be misdirected by the “Christian” Islamophobes at ABN and other organisations who make it their business to politically scaremonger against Islam and Muslims

Researching Jizya and the Bible's support of such?

For those willing to further their research, I will furnish you a link to Jonathon’s site which covers the Jizya and features links to more extensive coverage from Bassam Zawadi. See below the video.

Bullied by the Islamophobe’s negative spin?

The Jizya is NOTHING to worry over despite all the theatrics from the Islamophobes. The Islamophobes try to bully and manipulate audiences via spin and preying on gaps in the audience’s knowledge – effectively capitalising on the vulnerable as opportunists.

Firstly, before playing Imam Shabir Ally’s presentation on the Jizya (with regards to S9:29) we should realise the Jizya is not discriminatory and is simply a poll tax which non-Muslims pay in the stead of the religious tax which is imposed upon Muslims (zakat).

Imam Shabir Ally explains Surah 9:29 – Jizya



Is the Jizya so scary? No.

The Jizya is an extremely agreeable poll tax. The Jizya is ALWAYS whatever amount both parties agree upon if the amount ever exceeds the set minimum. Now is that so scary? No.

The minimum non-Muslim poll tax is one dinar (n: 4.235 grams of gold) per person (A:per year). The maximum is whatever both sides agree upon.
It is collected with leniency and politeness as are all debts and is not levied on women, children, or the insane. [o11.4 Reliance of the Traveller, Ahmad ibn Naqib al Misri, edited and translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, Amana Publications, 1994]

Christians should NEVER argue against the Jizya: Mark 12:17

“Christian” Islamophobes are throwing their Bible under the bus in order to jump on the anti-Muslim bandwagon. The fact remains NO true Christian would be opposed to the Jizya.

Christians are instructed to give unto Caesar what belongs to him (see Mark 12:17), thus paying the Jizya is hardly an issue for a Bible-believing Christian. If an Islamic government taxes a Christian the Christian should not grumble. Quite why the Christians at ABN are jumping up and down is beyond me as they pay GREATER taxes to the US government which spends its tax revenues on illicit (ANTI CHRISTIAN) actions.

I guess the stench of Islamophobia is blinding too.

More information on why true Christians should not be arguing against the Jizya

Jonathon has a whole post regarding the Bible’s instructions towards Jizya (the post contains further details on Jizya and features links to more extensive information vis-à-vis the Jizya):
http://www.acommonword.net/2010/11/bible-commands-christians-to-pay-jizyah.html

Don’t be fooled or bullied by detractors who work assiduously to demonize Muslims.

FEEDBACK: yahyasnow@hotmail.com

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38 comments:

YFC777 said...

Here are some reasons why I find Jizya unacceptable and morally incorrect.

1: Jizya is not poll tax as Yahya mentions, that's the Yusuf Ali translation. What is more important is why this tax was collected. To put it very simply, it was protection money. The un believers had to pay the state money for their existence.
In today's world this can be termed as "Extortion" money collected by the mafia.

2: The money collected was to be used for the salary of soldiers and could never be used for charity or any development. This further supports my point that this was blood money. Moreover this is discrimination and can never be accepted in today's society.

3: Some Muslims argue that the Jizya was 2% while the Zakat is 2.5%. Thus the Muslims pay more tax than the unbelievers. This is also not true, Jizya was calculated differently in different periods. Mostly it was done on the basis of one's wealth.

Anonymous said...

YFC777 -

I'll start with point 2

You said - "The money collected was to be used for the salary of soldiers and could never be used for charity or any development. This further supports my point that this was blood money"

Apart from being wrong (Jizya was utilized in many different ways and not just the military) by this standard aren't the taxes that you pay 'blood money' - wikileaks anyone?


And back to point 1

You said -

"What is more important is why this tax was collected. To put it very simply, it was protection money. The un believers had to pay the state money for their existence.
In today's world this can be termed as "Extortion" money collected by the mafia."

If you object to your money being used for military expansion (blood money you called it) withdraw your financial support (taxes) from your government on these same grounds and see where it gets you.

Yahya Snow said...

@yfc

1. Jizya is a poll tax. What do I reference as my evidence for this definition. Sheikh Nuh Keller's index section contains the word poll tax and sends the reader off to the Jizya section.

You also confirm Y.Ali considered it a poll tax. Who shall we take as authorities you or learned Muslims? Enough said.

2. And what does it matter where the tax goes? If my UK government dedicates all the tax revenues from the north of England to the armed forces does that mean they are paying something other than a tax? No.

"Bloodmoney", "mafia", "extortion"...you have been watching too many episodes of Sopranos.

Like I say go to TGV's post on the subject and you will note FURTHER Biblical proof that you (as a Christian) should have NO issue with the Jizya. In fact you should pay it religiously. I have already presented the verese in Mark which teaches you to give unto Caesar what is due to him, thus your bickering over taxation is unbiblical. Go to the TGV link for more info.

3. If you listened to Imam Shabir Ally's presentation you will know the set amount varied from time to time. Sometimes greater than and at other times less with respect to zakat.

So when it was greater was it such a burden? No. The Fiqh we have quoted in this post shows you that the Christians must be in agreement with the amount of Jizya to be paid (if greater than the set minimum). So why are you arguing against the taxation of Christians in the past who would have had no issue with the Jizya?

A Christian (and any fair individual) will should not have an issue here, however your islamophobia leads you to jump right in without thinking about the lack of sense you are displaying - nevr mind the lack of Biblical awareness.

Christian critics of Islam always tend to throw their Bible under the bus in their attempts to criticise Islam.

It just shows how intellectually bankrupt the Christian apologetic is. These are signs for the truth-seekers. They indeed are reading!

Iron shaprens iron just as one man shaprens another

Ibn said...

YfCC: The un believers had to pay the state money for their existence.
In today's world this can be termed as "Extortion" money collected by the mafia.

In any nation, people pay taxes to the government which are then used to provide various public services, including defense. Because defense entails protection, then can we say people may money to the government for protection? If so, then is the government extorting money? What if a person refuses to pay income tax? If the government forces him to pay will that count as extortion?

YFC777 said...

@Yahya: As a British when you say toll tax it is similar to Jizya in the sense a tax for war. However when an American reads it the meaning changes because in some American states toll tax implies a tax paid for elections.

@Yahya, IBN, Anonymous: When you and I pay tax we don't know where the tax money goes. Maybe it goes towards building a school or maybe it is spent on defense. The problem with Jizya is the discrimination between people. In its historical context it was introduced to humiliate the Jews and Christians. Let the Quran speak for itself - "until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

As a Jew or Christian living in the 7th centuary in Madina, there were a lot of military campaigns carried out by Muhammad against the Jews and Christians. These Jews and Christians were forced to fund the same military campaign that killed their fellow Jews and Christians. Ask yourself how you would feel as a Muslim if the United States or UK declares the war in Iraq and Afghanistan would be funded by the Muslims in America or UK.

Last point: If Jizya is not an issue and a commandment from Allah himself to be continued till the second coming of Jesus, why has it been abolished by all Islamic countries today ? Are Muslim states not going against the teaching of Islam ?

Anonymous said...

YFC777

"When you and I pay tax we don't know where the tax money goes. Maybe it goes towards building a school or maybe it is spent on defense."

Don't be naive. Your money goes towards all these things. A simple way to work it out would be to calculate what percentage of your country's overall budget goes towards the military and then apply that percentage in regard to how much you, personally, contribute.

And, again, what would happen if you decided that you were no longer going to pay your taxes?

Ibn said...

YFC: When you and I pay tax we don't know where the tax money goes.

Maybe you don't, but as a student of economics I have a theoretical understanding of where my money goes.

YFC: The problem with Jizya is the discrimination between people. In its historical context it was introduced to humiliate the Jews and Christians. Let the Quran speak for itself - "until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

If Jizyah is meant for humiliation, why are certain groups exempted from it, like women, the crippled, priests, the poor etc? So the Jizyah was designed to humiliate only rich Christians? Moreover, as Yahya pointed out, the rate of Jizyah was less than Zakah. Is that humiliating to Muslims or non-Muslims? Wouldn't it be humiliating if the non-Muslims were made to pay Jizyah as well as serve in the Muslim army?

Anonymous said...

yfc just say.. la ilaha ilaALLAH..Muhammad ar-rasulUllah.. your arguments are weaker than a banana

Anonymous said...

Jizya is just another discriminatory tax along with the Kharaj and the avariz taxes implemented throught islamic history. Christians have to pay a tax to a muslim simply because they are Christian! Oh and do they have to crawl!

Yahya you do know that is a histrical fact, go to ANY historian on any campus and they will tell you the same, non muslims had to crawl in order to be humiliated in order to pay their discriminatory tax for not being Muslim.

Anonymous said...

none of your Islamic stuff is scary. It is just immoral and opressive.

Anonymous said...

oh and when non Muslims did pay this tax, they would be hit on their head by a Muslim.

Anonymous said...

Some Muslims argue that the Jizya was 2% while the Zakat is 2.5%. Thus the Muslims pay more tax than the unbelievers. This is also not true, Jizya was calculated differently in different periods. Mostly it was done on the basis of one's wealth.

True. Sometimes the Jizya was actually 5 to 10 times as much as the Zakat!

Ibn said...

Anonymous: go to ANY historian

There you go again with the "Any historian" crap. How many historians have YOU quoted to support your point?

Yahya Snow said...

@anonymous, the one who said:
none of your Islamic stuff is scary. It is just immoral and opressive.



Grow up and add some intellect content to your posts as well as consistency.

You do realise you (by the way of consistency) have just insulted the Torah and the Noahide laws?

This is a problem with "Christian" Islamophobes; they throw their Bible under the bus in their quest to bash Islam. Inconsistent and desperate!

AND FYI: Non-Muslims do not get bashed in the face when paying Jizya.

Stop listening to crazy Islamophobes and do some RESERACH. Ibn Kathir was not speaking literally!

Think, if you do think you will come to Islam. God willing.

Yahya Snow said...

@anonymous

Who cares how much the Jizya vaied over the years. It does not matter as the tax is fair and mutual (if above the minimum amount).

THINK!

BTW, as a CHRISTIAN you should NOT be arguing and you should pay your taxes with willing submission ACCORDING to your Bible. I'm sure the post discusses the bible's support of Jizya. Stop throwing your Bible under the buas and arguing as a secular humanist.

Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another

Ibn said...

I bet Anonymous is kid in the 14-17 years range.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord,


YF777 said,
"Last point: If Jizya is not an issue and a commandment from Allah himself to be continued till the second coming of Jesus, why has it been abolished by all Islamic countries today ? Are Muslim states not going against the teaching of Islam ?"

Amen! Where have you been? That is exactly the point! I can't think of a predominant Muslim country in which Islam is being suppressed in some way shape or form. I can't think of a predominant Muslim country in which culture, local politics, tribal loyalties, etc clouds the beauty of Islam.

You hit the nail on the head YFC777, now if only other people were given that opening from Allah.

mike said...

You know what I have noticed? That all these people frequent your webstie to insult islam. Acts 17 is obsessed with insulting a religion. Not to mention convert us all. Alhamdulillah, it is good to see that we are the rational and respectful ones. Say: "O followers of earlier revelation! Come unto that tenet which we and you hold in common: that we shall worship none but God, and that we shall not ascribe divinity to aught beside Him, and that we shall not take human beings for our lords beside God." And if they turn away, then say: "Bear witness that it is we who have surrendered ourselves unto Him." surah imran

i know this is a stupid epiphany, juse wanted to share..
mike

Yahya Snow said...

@Mike

Brother Mike, when it comes to Mr Wood (imo) it is not so much about catching fish "for Christ" but it is more about self-promotion and bashing Muslims.

You may recall his post a couple of Sundays back. He featured a video with cartoons of the Prophet. Why did he feature such an insulting video? Well, on the same morning he was sent an email which had a dig at his past. How do I know? It was forwarded to me as well. Instead of David taking his argumentation to the sender of such an email he decided to insult ALL Muslims by featuring the nasty cartoon video. Either that or it was a coincidence...

I have ANOTHER one of his hoaxes saved to my computer ready to be unveiled shortly.

The sad thing is, Christians actually take these folk as representatives of their faith. They even give them cash.

In my view normal Christians are decent in dialogue and one can get along with them but the fundamentalist crowd are quite different.

These "Christians" who drop emails/comments of detraction are fueled by hatred not evangelism or any activity of the church.

These extremists are ruin the internet and give the church a bad name

Sad but true.

May Allah bless us all further. Ameen

Yahya Snow said...

@the anonymous who said:

Yahya you do know that is a histrical fact, go to ANY historian on any campus and they will tell you the same, non muslims had to crawl in order to be humiliated in order to pay their discriminatory tax for not being Muslim.

---------------

Erm, the governer of Shaam (The Syria and Jordan region) was Obaida ibn al Jarrah ( a companion of Prophet Muhammad, p). He collected the Jizya and RETURNED it as the army was away in another land. Not only this, he even stated if they were attacked he would recall a faction to defend them. Now that is fairness. (ref Shaykh Zayed)

Do you still want to talk about anonymous historians?

Drop the Islamophobia and try researching Islam for yourself (objectively). You will be impressed, inshaAllah

Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another

Anonymous said...

How many historians have YOU quoted to support your point?

Ibn, about Christians having to crawl and then getting hit on the head while paying their jizya - I talked to 4 different historians on 3 different liberal secular college campuses, and they all confirmed.

And these are real Doctors.

Christians had to crawl in order to pay the jizya so they could be humiliated.

Odo said...
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Bernard said...
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Ibn said...

Anonymous: I talked to 4 different historians

That's your evidence? You didn't even name the historians. Surely if any historian agrees with you, you can at least quote a few highly esteemed historians of the 21st century to support your points (the likes of Bernard Lewis perhaps?)

Bernard said...
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Bernard said...
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Bernard said...

Possession of the receipt for the jizya – originally a piece of parchment worn around the neck or a seal worn on the wrist or on the chest enabled the dhimmi to move from place to place. A dhimmi travelling without this receipt could be put in jail. The seal of the jizya, characteristic of the dhimmis were easily recognizable by their distinctive costume and could be stopped in the street. The French consular archives show that one of the chief objections to the employment of Jews or Christians as dragomans (interpreters) in the consulate during the Ottoman period was their subjugation to the jizya, with all the humiliating conditions which it entailed. The prestige attached to this function was felt to be quite incomparable with the necessarily abject status of the dhimmi, as his degraded condition might reflect upon the consul himself.

Bernard said...

Persecution of the dhimmis by the Almoravids and Almohads (1042-1269) wiped out the Christian communities of Muslim Spain and North Africa. The Jews, threatened with forced conversions by Yusuf ibn Tashfin (1061-1106) were able to avoid the same fate only by paying a heavy ransom. Under the Almohads, in 1159, however, the Jews were again left with three choices: conversion, exile, or death. Those who were converted became outwardly Muslims, but continued to practice Judaism in secret. The Hafsids (1228-1534), comparatively tolerant, allowed them to return to Judaism on condition that they pay the jizya and other heavy taxes, adopted a special costume, and complied with other humiliating measures.

Bernard said...
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Bernard said...
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Bernard said...

In the latter part of the reign of Abbas II (1642-1666), the Jews throughout the empire were obliged to choose between forced conversion and banishment. The synagogues were closed and the converts were made to break with their past, change their names, and marry their daughters to Muslims. Armenians and other Christians were expelled from Isfahan, but owing to the intervention of the Pope and the European states, their fate was less wretched than that of the Jews. In 1661 the Jews were allowed to practice their religion anew on condition that they paid the jizya and also made retroactive payment, calculated from the time of their conversion to Islam. Oppression and persecution of the Jewish and Christian dhimmis continued in the following reigns, with the exception of that remarkably tolerant ruler, Nadir Shah (1736-1747). Under the Qajar dynasty (1794-1925), the oppression and humiliation of the Jews increased. Between 1834 and 1848 a wave of persecution broke out. The Jews, subjected to discriminatory laws, had to wear a distinctive badge and headdress; the community was made collectively responsible for the offence of any individual

Bernard said...

In 1892 the clergy of Hamadan in Persia forced the Jews to wear a visible red circular patch on the upper part of their garment, and in 1902 they again made them wear a special costume. At the same period in Shiraz, fanatical fundamentalists seized Jews in the streets, shaved their beards, cut off their hair, and made them wear a distinctive badge. In Tehran in 1897 the mullahs published a fatwa requiring the Jews to wear the badge and to cut their hair in order to distinguish themselves from the believers. Under strong British pressure the Shah issued an edict forbidding its implementation. In Yemen, Semach described the special costume worn by the Jews, which was intended to make them look ridiculous; a French woman, resident in San’a, noted in 1947: „The women were unveiled but the men were subject to a strict rule that they had to wear a white cotton shirt with stripes of black. They were not allowed to own horses and generally were bullied by the Arabs. I saw a tribesman whose badly loaded donkey had shed its lucerne [alfalfa], seize the nearest Jew and compel him to pick it up and replace it."

Ibn said...

So Anonymous you are going by the name of Bernard now are you?

Ibn said...

Apparently, after I asked Anonymous to quote historians, he went on a copy and paste spree. One of his sources happen to be the following
http://www.nku.edu/~gartigw/teaching_files/DHIMMI%20treatment.pdf

The author of that handout admits to copying and pasting himself, "The source for almost all this information about the dhimmis is Bat Ye’or, The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians
under Islam"

Simple question: Is Bat Ye'or a historian? No she isn't.

Moreover, Anonymous made the claim that Christians had to crawl in order to pay the Jizyah. Although his examples show mistreatment of minorities during certain periods of Islamic history (notice that these are mostly isolated incidents) there is no mention of Christians having to crawl.

Ibn said...

I wonder what Anonymous makes of this letter:

I have heard of the afflictions, more bitter than death, that have befallen our brethern in Germany of the tyrannical laws, the compulsory baptisms and the banishments, which are of daily occurence. I am told that when they flee from one place a yet harder fate befalls them in another . .. on all sides I learn of anguish of soul and torment of body; of daily exactions levied by merciless oppressors. The clergy and the monks, false priests that they are, rise up against the unhappy people of God ... for this reason they hare made a law that every Jew found upon a Christian ship bound for the East shall be flung into the sea. Alas! How evil are the people of God in Germany entreated; how sad is their strength departed! They are driven hither and thither, and they are pursued even unto death... Brothers and teachers, friends and acquaintances! I, Isaac Zarfati, though I spring from a French stock, yet I was born in Germany, and sat there at the feet of my esteemed teachers. I proclaim to you that Turkey is a land wherein nothing is lacking, and where, if you will, allshallyet be well with you. The way to the Holy Land lies open to you through Turkey. Is it not betterfor you to live under Muslims than under Christians? Here every man dwell at peace under his own Dine and fig tree. Here you are allowed to wear the most precious garments. In Christiendom, on the contrary, you dare not even Denture to cloth your children in red or in blue, according to our taste, without exposing them to the insult or beaten black and blue, or kicked green and red, and therefore are ye condemned to go about meanly clad in sad colored raimtent . . . and now, seing an these things, O Israel, wherefore sleepest thou ? Arise! And lease this accursed land forever!

Letter of Rabbi Isaac Zarfati, written during Sultan Mehmed II's reign.

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