With the recent unislamic acts in Iraq, which have led to the deaths of a number of Catholic Christians, Dr James White has asked to see fatwas from recognised Islamic authorities condemning such unislamic acts.
Firstly, we should spare a thought for the families of the Christians who have been murdered by misguided Muslims in Iraq. We hope their families are looked after both financially and emotionally by the surrounding Muslim community. Prophet Muhammad (p) was sent by God as a mercy, thus the followers of the final Revelation should implement mercy in their lives; God-Willing the families of the victims of this terrorist act will be afforded support by the Muslims.
A Fatwa
Secondly, Dr White asks for a fatwa specific to this latest act of terrorism we should remind him fatwas are religious edicts thus it is unlikely a fatwa will be found with regards to this specific instance of terrorism as there are copious fatwas which have denounced the type of evil action which took in Iraq, namely terrorism and suicide bombing. Specific condemnations will be found but not fatwas.
Before we showcase a famous fatwa unreservedly announcing terrorism to be unislamic we should point our Christian brothers and sisters to specific condemnations vis-à-vis the murdering of Catholic church-goers in Iraq. A blog commenter (maratsafin) did find two recognised organisations which have condemned the barbaric acts perpetrated against the Iraqi Catholics.
ISNA President Defends Iraqi Christians and Denounces the Terrorists
ISNA condemns in the strongest terms and is outraged by the recent barbaric attack which claimed the lives of fifty-eight innocent worshipers and wounded seventy-five others at the Sayidat al-Nejat Catholic Church in Iraq this past Sunday. ISNA urges the world-wide community to pray for the lives of those lost, injured, and affected by these attacks and urges the Iraqi authorities to diligently protect places of worship and ensure that people of all faiths are safe to pray in Iraq.
“ISNA believes in the rights of all people to worship freely without fear of intimidation or violence” said Imam Mohamed Magid, ISNA president. “The level of violence in this incident only heightens our responsibility to speak out against religious intolerance and hatred.”
http://www.isna.net/articles/Press-Releases/ISNA-Condemns-Barbaric-Attack-and-Murders-of-Catholic-Worshipers-in-Iraq1.aspx
CAIR Condemn the Attack on Iraqi Christians as “Heinous” and as a “Crime”
In a statement, CAIR said:
"We condemn this attack on a house of worship in the strongest possible terms and repudiate the groups that perpetrate such heinous crimes. The Christian community has a long and honored tradition in Iraq and throughout the Middle East. The lives and religious rights of members of that community must be protected...'
http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?ArticleID=26679&&name=n&&currPage=1&&Active=1
Famous Fatwa Denounces these Killings of Iraqi Christians (by Condemning Terrorism in toto)
The most famous fatwa in the Western world is that by Sheikh Tahir ul Qadri. Sheikh Tahir ul Qadri is a well-known cleric amongst British people and is a giant in Pakistan and the Urdu speaking world. He has issued a fatwa unreservedly denouncing terrorism and the killing of innocent people, thus the Sheikh through his fatwa is condemning ALL acts of terrorism including the current actions in Iraq. Here is the eminent Sheikh announcing his fatwa in front of eager representatives of the media (March 2010)
Dr Tahir ul Qadri's Fatwa Condemns Killings of Christians in Iraq
Sheikh Abdal Hakim Murad Denounces Terrorism
Sheikh Abdal Hakim Murad (aka Tim Winter) was in the audience listening to Sheikh Tahir ul Qadri, I’m sure Dr White knows of this brilliant intellectual. Sheikh Abdal Hakim Murad denounced the incident of 9/11 and the general killing of civilians as unislamic:
…norms of their religion, they would have had to acknowledge that no school of traditional Islam allows the targeting of civilians. An insurrectionist who kills non-combatants is guilty of baghy, "armed transgression", a capital offence in Islamic law.
http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-heresy.html
Fighting the Anti-Muslim Brigade - A Shed Load of Links!
There are a number of extremist Christians who do work day and night in their attempts to portray Islam as a religion which allows the actions of Bin Laden and the perpetrators of the current atrocity in Iraq so it is vital for us to keep the more erudite and influential Christians away from such a crowd by furnishing them with scholarly condemnation of acts of terrorism. Dr White, there is a list of Islamic individuals/groups which have denounced acts of terrorism. The list comes with links (though some are defective) and there will be names which you are familiar with. Please do view:
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
Imam Shabir Ally Condemns the Killings
I am unaware of imam Shabir Ally speaking on the current issues (in Iraq) but rest assured he does not support such acts. I will point Dr James White to his friend, imam Shabir Ally, who speaks on the issue of terrorism and suicide bombing. See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqvRF_qYbjU
The imam also states “Our faith does not tolerate the killing of non-combatants” in his zero-tolerance policy on terrorism
I trust this is sufficient condemnation and fatwa-purveying to help Brother James and sincere folk in their quest for condemnation and personal reinforcement.
***King Abdullah of Jordan Condemns the Killing of Iraqi Christians***
King Abdullah instructed that the wounded be provided with appropriate medical care in the Kingdom's hospitals.
He also sent a cable of condolences to Iraqi President Jalal Talabani on Monday condemning the attack against the Christian community and stressing the Kingdom's full support for Iraq in combating all forms of terrorism.
http://www.kingabdullah.jo/news/details.php?kn_serial=8718&menu_id=26&lang_hmka1=1
Muslims Should be Ready to Answer
As Muslims, we should be ready to present copious material condemning evil acts which are being carried out by people who misappropriate and/or misunderstand Islamic teachings because it is important to keep moderate non-Muslims away from the Islamopohobic crowd as well safeguarding young Muslims from the divisive terrorist fraternity
Christians: Please help us FIGHT Islamophobia and BEAT Misconceptions
Whenever you hear individuals (especially your fellow Christians) claiming terrorism is a Muslim/Islamic thing, please be ready to answer by furnishing them with the fatwa by Sheikh Tahir ul Qadri or any of the other condemnations/fatwas which have been provided in this post. The Bible does state:
...Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have… (NIV, 1 Peter 3:15)
Invitation to Islam
If you are looking for religion and God please look into Islam as it has everything a mind, body and soul requires. Please see:
http://www.ediscoverislam.com/
FEEDBACK: yahyasnow@hotmail.com
Appendix
Dr Bilal Philips Educates us on this Contemporary Issue - Islam and Terrorism.
He teaches us Islam is opposed to the killing of innocent people
65 comments:
Email sent to our Christian brother James White:
Dear Dr White,
Sir, before offering you a response with copious links denouncing the horrific event I would like to condemn the Canadian Muslim who sent you that message of hatred. He/she has no authority and was clearly misguided.
Please forgive this individual and pass on the links to this individual so he/she can be educated on the subject.
Sir, I have produced a direct blog response to your call which features condemnations/fatwas from ISNA, CAIR, imam Shabir Ally and the famous fatwa by Sheikh ul Islam (Tahir ul Qadri).
I have also included the Islamic intellectual (Sheikh Murad) as well as another link which leads to a ton of fatwas/condemnations by many authorities whom you will be aware of (and many whom you will be unaware of)
Here is the link:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/11/muslims-condemn-murder-of-iraqi.html
Sir, please do save some of the links furnished and pass them onto your congregation as there is a growing number of extremist Christians who are seeking to misrepresent Islam as a religion of terrorism
God-willing, we (Muslims) will continue to denounce such violent actions and God-willing we will continue to keep ignorant and disaffected Muslims away from the terrorist crowd by helping to educate them on actual Islamic teachings
We thank you and our thoughts are with the families of the Christians harmed or murdered
Sir, if you decide to run a collection for the families of those affected please do let us Muslims know as Muslims will certainly try to help out
Peace and Love
PS Brother James, if you find time please look into Sam Shamoun's unedifying attack on imam Shabir Ally. You can find the audio on my blog. It is very problematic on a number of levels
May Allah guide us all and protect the Christians in Iraq from further misguided attack. Ameen
Yahya Snow
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/
-----------
For those who want to learn more about the act of terrorism in Iraq:
http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=38976
BAGHDAD, Iraq (Catholic Online) - They gathered in Our Lady of Salvation Catholic Church for an evening Mass. They are members of an increasingly besieged and forgotten minority in Iraq, Catholic Christians. Their herosm and love for the Lord has inspired them to continue to practice the ancient faith in the midst of what is a steadily deteriorating situation for them in this land they have called home for centuries.
Our Lady of Salvation Church is no stranger to violence. Churches have been bombed before in Iraq, including Our Lady of Salvation. The Christian faithful have had to contend with an increasingly hostile culture. However, never before have they experienced the horror of what happened this past Sunday when terrorists invaded a Church as the Holy Mass was set to begin, killed the priest and held the worshippers hostage for four hours. It ended with at least 52 dead, others injured, and our brothers and sisters in Iraq devastated
Yahya,
How very deceitful of you !!! If this were the other way around and say some Catholics entered a Mosque in Rome and killed Muslims in the name of Christianity would you accept the condemnation of United States Conference of Catholic Bishops ?? I bet the answer is No. You would expect an apology no less than the Pope himself. Not to mention riots in several parts of the world and the killing of thousands of people.
You are posting a fatwa from Tahir ul Qadri and claim he is a giant in Pakistan ? This is the best you could come up with ;) See the below link on what your Sunni folks have to say about him
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?40569-Who-is-Dr.-Tahir-ul-Qadri
@YFC777
Sir, why are you accusing me of deceit?
Muslims do not have an equivalent of the pope so who do you expect me to showcase other than the Saudi scholars, Pakistani scholars and the english speaking authorities?
I have showcased condemnation of terrorism by giants in the Arab world, Asian Subcontinent and the Western world.
If you go to one of the links presented it mentions a huge number of authorities (including those who are well regarded in Saudi) who have condemned terrorism and the killing of innocents.
What more do you want, blood?
I just don't understand where you are coming from, sir.
Proverbs 27:17
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another
Peace
May Allah guide us all.
YFC: How very deceitful of you !!! If this were the other way around and say some Catholics entered a Mosque in Rome and killed Muslims in the name of Christianity would you accept the condemnation of United States Conference of Catholic Bishops ?? I bet the answer is No. You would expect an apology no less than the Pope himself.
So each and every Muslim around the world should apologize for what unfortunately happened to a Church in Iraq? As much as I abhor the incident, I also detest the idea of guilt by association. In any case, even if all the Muslims got together and apologized, we'd still have the usual bigots (Wood, Shamoun, Spencer, et al.) accusing us of Taqiyyah.
@YFC77
Sir, allow me to respond to your dismissal of Dr Tahir ul Qadri's fatwa.
For your information, Sheikh Tahir ul Qadri's fatwa is very famous so I was obviously going to feature it as the Christian gentleman (Dr James White) was asking for fatwas
Let's put aside sectarian issues and focus on the fact that Muslims will not disagree with Dr Qadri's fatwa so it is perfectly reasonable for me to put it in use and showcase it to the Christian brother in order to alleviate his personal concerns.
Would you have wanted this Christian brother to have gone away with the false impression of terrorism being allowed in Islam?
I hope not.
I have acted and I hope many of my brothers and sisters have acted to help this Christian too.
As Muslims we should be setting the example - we are the people of peace and truth. We are working hard in carrying out this fine work.
Please view the imam Shabir Ally video on this subject (see the blog post) for further information.
Proverbs 27:17
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another
Peace
May Allah guide us all.
Peace
Yahya,
So this is the list you came up with when you said "I have showcased condemnation of terrorism by giants in the Arab world, Asian Subcontinent and the Western world."
America's - ISNA, CAIR, Shabir Ally
Europe - Timothy John (Abdal Hakim Murad)
Arab - None
Asia - Tahir ul Qadri (actually he is Canada based but I have to put something to make it look nice )
When Terry Jones threatened to burn the Quran you had practically every Church denomination who condemned his actions. Compare this with the killing of innocent Christians and that is the best list you can come up with. It's evident there hasn't and probably never will be condemnation from the Islamic world when such acts of terror occur.
@YFC777
Sir, you missed the most important link. The one which leads to fatwas/rebukes/condemnations from all over the world from many, many authorities (including Saudi authorities) - this gave me licence to say what I said
Please view that link
And sir, it is Timothy Winter (aka Sheikh Murad)... he is well renowned.
Peace
Sorry, I missed your Canada link to Dr Qadri.
Yes but he is Pakistani and his following is Pakistani. I believe he is a strong influence in politics in Pakistan too.
The fact remains his is a famous fatwa on the subject so I am bound to present it to Christians asking for fatwas...right?
Peace
dear brother yahya as you can see from the response of yfc777 muslims will never be able to please the likes of him. i really dont know what will make him happy, does he want every mosque in the world to come out and condemn this act? you know they may have i know my local mosque always condems these sort of acts. btw about the Quran burning the guy should be reminded muslims never made a big deal out of it, you hardly saw any muslim media network outside that church but you did see a number of american and western broadcasters camped out there 24/7.
He also states no arab have condemed the attacks, how on earth does he know? is he so fluent in arabic he reads all the daily newspapers? is he aware the iraqi goverment condemned the attack?
and his dumb hypothetical question about what would happen if chrisatians killed muslims in rome, firstly that may have happened when christianity had some power back in the middle ages, but thankfully todays christianity is so pathetic they have absolutely no political influence. you see what fundy christians dont like admitting in public is that thier religion is irrelevant and on the decline and is being replaced by aggresive secularism or the other and correct choice Islam.
Yahya,
Which link have I missed out. The ones I see on your blog are from ISNA, CAIR, Abdal Hakim and www.muhajabah.com. If you were refering to www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php then I have seen this page and it is a condemnation in general and not any specific act of terror like the killing of Christians in Iraq.
When the incident occured I searched for voices of condemnation from the Islamic world, the only prominent voice I heard was that of King Abdulla of Saudi Arabia. The religious leaders choose to remain silent.
You quoted Matthew 5:11-12 in your previous blog article. It has its proper meaning in this article and not in the one you posted earlier.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
@maratsafin
"I really dont know what will make him happy"
For now, Stop persecuting Christians in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and all other stan's of the world. Abolish medieval laws that prohibit freedom of speech and freedom to practice one's religion peacefully without living in fear of attacks by Muslims. Come up with a clear dogma on what to do with all the violent verses and their relevance today. Send Children to proper schools and not madarsa's and stop blowing up schools for girls in Pakistan.
"btw about the Quran burning the guy should be reminded muslims never made a big deal out of it"
I'm sorry we Christians over reacted.
"is he so fluent in arabic he reads all the daily newspapers"
No I don't speak Arabic. I would expect if an incident so grave occurs there would be some condemnation from Islamic leaders in Saudi Arabia. Apart from the Saudi King who is a head of state and not a religious leader I did not hear any nor have you pointed it out either.
KFC: For now, Stop persecuting Christians in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and all other stan's of the world. Abolish medieval laws that prohibit freedom of speech and freedom to practice one's religion peacefully without living in fear of attacks by Muslims. Come up with a clear dogma on what to do with all the violent verses and their relevance today. Send Children to proper schools and not madarsa's and stop blowing up schools for girls in Pakistan.
Lol! Islamophobia at its best! Who are you telling to stop persecuting Christians, sending children to madrassas, yadda yadda? Some Muslims? All Muslims?
I don't do any of those things, so what should I stop doing that will make you happy?
It is exactly as Allah says in the Quran, "The Jews and the Christians will never be pleased with you until you follow their religion." (Surah 2:120)
Speaking of James white and scholarship: James white has faked his PhD, as Ehteshaam Gulam attests to:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O4XmH94Tr7A
Ibn said:
Who are you telling to stop persecuting Christians, sending children to madrassas, yadda yadda? Some Muslims? All Muslims?
No. Just plain ol Muslims. You know the ones who slaughter Christians for allah and follow Muhammad.
It would be nice if western Muslims could also condemn those actions and come to terms with their violent ideology.
as Ehteshaam Gulam attests to:
You mean the guy who completly freaked out during a discussion with Dr. White? The good doctor demolished any semblence of argumentation from Ehteshaam. The audience was laughing (at Gulam, not with Gulam) at the utter nonsence he conveyed. Gulam lost big and in the meantime managed to refute his quran with the redactory scholarship he appealed to (guys who dont believe miracles exist).
Now that i think about it Gulam was refuted many times over on the AM blog (which by the way is getting more hits then ever, possibly due in part to yahya. thanks yahya!). Gulam had to run and never come back, humiliation.
oh i so look forward to when the jesus of revelation comesdown. the christian like yfc777 will stand up for people like us and tell the blood thirsty jesus," we love freedom of religion and speech, let them worship whoever they want and let them speak against you" and hopefully peoplelike yfc777 will stop this bloodthirsty jesus slaughtering half the world.
but if they do that then the prophecies will not cometrue!!! oh dam, sorry guys tried to help your inconsistency out but its impossible.
The PPO&D, "promoters of perpetual outrage and dishonesty" are at it again. Way to go yahya and PPO&D crew. Way to perpetuate.
promoters of dishonesty ppod are sam and dave
Meanwhile, another Muslim [Yahya is this you?!] (I won't give his name unless he wants me to---I have interacted with him before) wrote and basically said my request was silly. In essence, he said you won't find such fatwas since that issue was settled long before, and Islam condemns the killing of innocent people. Well, that's wonderful---so why is it that men like Nidal Malik Hasan, the Fort Hood mass murderer (who not only killed adults, but shot and killed a pregnant woman), are treated as heroes in the Islamic world? I pointed out that in the thinking of men like the Canadian Muslim above, there are no innocent people! Since we are all born Muslims, and then are perverted into Christians or Jews or whatever, then none of us are innocent, in their thinking.
The Canadian Muslim referred above said this to Dr. White.
Anonymous: so why is it that men like Nidal Malik Hasan, the Fort Hood mass murderer (who not only killed adults, but shot and killed a pregnant woman), are treated as heroes in the Islamic world?
And where is the evidence that Nidal Malik Hasan is treated as a hero in the Islamic world? White's rhetoric has lately been a matter of pulling stuff out of his butt.
@anonymous
Sir/madam
You asked whether that refers to me
I doubt it as the date of that post is prior to my blogpost.
Also, I have provided ample links to condemnation and fatwas so it would be somewhat disingenuous of Brother James White to dismiss the links
Peace and Love
@the other anonymous
You must be talking about Mr Wood as the ppo&d. Have a look at the previous post...you will see what I mean
Peace and Love
@maratsafin
I agree; it's a hard act to please YFC777.
It does get more interesting as he claims there is no Arab condemnation but there is King Abdullah of Jordan (which he brought up). The king would not have made such a declaration if he felt "his clerics" or countrymen would rebel. The king is reflecting the will of the people and other Arabs too.
You don't get much high profile than a King of an Arab country.
Like I say, general edicts have been passed out by Muslim clerics the world over.
Our pal YFC777 wants blood and for some reason makes accusations of deception.
I just hope brother James passes on the links to his congregation so they are not so misinformed...none of us want more extremist Christians bashing Muslims.
Enough is enough.
To YFC777,
Dear Christian hypocrite. You have to know that we don't owe apology to no one, and we are not required to pass a fatwa either, Muslims were never and will never be the slaves of your folks. I think After the wikileaks documents released, the best that an American can do is SHUT UP. Are few christian Iraqis murdered by some radical fanatics, more valuable than the hundred of children and women shot by Americans in check points, because the driver was too afraid to stop in the middle of the night?
Here is my challenge: Show me one church congregation, a famous one, with thousands of followers, who condemned the killing of civilians by the Americans after the wikileaks document released. Good luck.
@Yahya
You said "Our pal YFC777 wants blood"
That is wrong. I condemn violence in any shape or form, you are putting words in my mouth. Maybe I came out too hard on you earlier, that was a my mistake for which I apologise. The point I wanted to emphasis was your article does not do justice in condemning this grave and shameful act of terrorism. If you are truthful you will admit more should have been done by Islamic leadership.
You are correct I brought up King Abdullah of Jordan. The very fact that I had to point this out while you missed it proves that he is just a head of state and not a religious figure.
@Anonymous: Thanks for pointing out the discussion between Ehteshaam Gulam and Dr. White. I am watching it right now.. Dr. White's presentation is very informative ! The Q&A is rather funny :)
Dr James White called catholics "Idol worshipers" And now he is defending their belief.
He says : We don't worship the cross. Who is "WE"? Certainly Iraqi Christians don't follow the reformed Christianity that Dr White is teaching.
@1MoreMuslim:
The Pope made more than fifty public addresses in which he condemned the war in Iraq prior to its inception and he sent a special emissary, Pio Laghi, to the White House to convey his disapproval. My best answer to your challenge however would be, the head of President Bush's own Methodist Church condemned the war in Iraq. Imagine the President of the United States attending a Church whose leader publicly condemns the same war that the state endorses.. I don't think you can have a better example than that. Quote from the article (link provided below) "The United Methodist Church is the second-largest Protestant church in the United States. It includes President Bush in its membership. Its Council of Bishops and nearly 100 individual bishops recently issued statements condemning the war in Iraq and calling for withdrawal of U.S. troops."
1MoreMuslim, I have given you examples from the largest Christian denomination as well as the second-largest Protestant church in the United States whose membership included President Bush himself condemning the war in Iraq.
Link to the article - http://www.theledger.com/article/20051112/news/511120368
Yahya.
Make sure to include a link to the english translation of this weak fatwa when it comes out.
ten minutes in and i can see many holes with what this sheikh is saying.
I dont know Yahya,
This one sounds much more authoritative, and scriptural proofs are provided ;p
And here is yet another influential Muslim who says that there is no need for a fatwa to kill Americans, since no religious rulings are needed to "fight with the devil".
And we cannot forget the MICE
Those devil dogs and satan mice!!! What would we ever do without sharia!
Anonymous: This one sounds much more authoritative, and scriptural proofs are provided ;p
Which scriptural proof is provided to show that killing innocent civilians, destroying Christian churches, etc. are permitted in Islam?
Anonymous:
And here is yet another influential Muslim who says that there is no need for a fatwa to kill Americans, since no religious rulings are needed to "fight with the devil".
Awlaki is not a scholar of Islam.
Anonymous: And we cannot forget the MICE
Notice that all the videos Anonymous refers to are by Memri. You might as well quote FoxNews to justify your points!
Here is Shaykh Munajid's response to MEMRI's deception
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5XUwvI-YO4
To YFC777 ,
Thank you for pointing out how American presidents, although self proclaimed hardcore Christians, don't care about what their religious leaders are saying.
For now, those mega churches who have active memberships and strong lobbies are pushing for wars, and supporting occupation, oppression and Israel UNCONDITIONALLY.
John Haggee's mega church which is viewd by 99 million homes every week, has made a promise to destroy every politician who criticizes Israel. Where is your Methodist Church? What are they doing to stop the war?
"The United Methodist Church is the second-largest Protestant church in the United States"
Please explain how 75% of Americans were in favor of the Iraq war?
My challenge to you was to show me what big church has condemned what was revealed in the Wikileaks documents. Dr White asks for specific Fatwa, I am doing the same.
As for the Extremist who targeted Iraq Christians, What you are purposely ignoring is the reason behind those attacks. The Extremists wanted tortured Muslims in the Iraqi jails to be freed, second, to stop persecuting the NEW Muslim female converts in Egypt. Many new Muslimah are hiding from the brutality of their Coptic churches, some were taken hostages by the Coptic Church, we don't know if they are still alive. Do you know any Church Who condemned that?
1MoreMuslim said "What you are purposely ignoring is the reason behind those attacks"
You are justifying this act or terror while your pal Yahya is condemning it in his blog. Which one of you is the "true" Muslim ?
To YFC777
"You are justifying this act or terror while your pal Yahya is condemning it in his blog. Which one of you is the "true" Muslim ?"
You need to make the difference between giving reasons, and agree with those reasons. Where did I condone the killing of Iraqi Christians? Nice diversion!
Which scriptural proof is provided to show that killing innocent civilians
And the rock said "Oh Jew, there is a MUSLIM hiding behind me!" OH JOOOO wont you PLEASE KILL HIM!" (wait...or is it the other way around?)
Awlaki is not a scholar of Islam.
Nice try Ibn, but i never said he was a scholar. He is MORE influantial than scholars, at least among the orthodox crowd.
I can find those videos anywhere, they dont have to be "Memri" tv. and where you get the sand to compare your orthodox Muslim brethren broadcasting "extermination" of all Jews and Christians to FoxNews, is beyond me. Fox news broadcasts fatwas to slaughter all Muslims? Didint see that one.
With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord,
Anonymous said...
Which scriptural proof is provided to show that killing innocent civilians
And the rock said "Oh Jew, there is a MUSLIM hiding behind me!" OH JOOOO wont you PLEASE KILL HIM!" (wait...or is it the other way around?)
Anonymous I dare you to quote the source you got this information from.
Better luck next time ;)
Anonymous:Which scriptural proof is provided to show that killing innocent civilians.....And the rock said "Oh Jew, there is a MUSLIM hiding behind me!" OH JOOOO wont you PLEASE KILL HIM!"
You are as unfunny as you are unintelligent. Does the hadith say that it is okay to kill innocent civilians? Moreover, name one scholar in the history of Islam who has treated the hadith above as a juristic narration and argued that it calls for the killing of innocents.
Anonymous: Awlaki is not a scholar of Islam. Nice try Ibn, but i never said he was a scholar. He is MORE influantial than scholars, at least among the orthodox crowd.
Awlaki is about as influential as Ted Haggard. If the former represents the Muslim community, then the latter represents the Christian community. You get it?
Anonymous: I can find those videos anywhere, they dont have to be "Memri" tv. and where you get the sand to compare your orthodox Muslim brethren broadcasting "extermination" of all Jews and Christians to FoxNews, is beyond me.
Another instance of your profound intelligence. Memri (mis)translated the videos, took them out of context and widely circulated them. Even if you find those videos in other places, they can all be traced back to Memri. As for the connection between Memri and FoxNews, both are selective and biased media organizations noted for their antagonism towards the Muslim world.
tgv said: Anonymous I dare you to quote the source you got this information from.
Sure. The references are:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177 and 176
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791
Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6981, 6982,6983, etc.
Those hadith speak of killing Jews and not stopping until they are completly exterminated, ie. until even rocks are screaming "oh Muslim there is a Jew hiding behind me, kill him"
Ibn said: Awlaki is about as influential as Ted Haggard
Funny Ibn XD
To 1MoreChristian:
There is also a Hadith where our prophet says that Muslims will be killed even though Muslims will be in great number. I think you are old enough to make the difference between a prophecy and a command. When a doctor tells you : You will get cancer if you continue smoking, that doesn't mean he wants you to get cancer. Does he?
i find it funny how yfc777 posts a link of a church condemning the war 2 years to late and when it is not going well. the sheer hypcrosiy of these people never ceases to stun me.
about anwar alwaki,its funny isnt after bin laden becoming so useless for america now they need a new bogeyman for the likes of yfc777 and 1morecrossworshipper to keep on being scared.i really feel sorry for these fools
I think you are old enough to make the difference between a prophecy and a command.
Apperantly im not (and how does one MAKE the difference between prophesy and command btw?), and either are your orthodox co religionists, or your orthodox scholars, since they all interpret it as a command, or you for that matter since you seem to think its a "prophecy".
Its called prescriptive. You know, like what your doctor gives you at the office? Its prescribed to better your ailments, in your prohpets case, killing every Jew until there are none left and the rocks are screaming.
With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.
tgv said: Anonymous I dare you to quote the source you got this information from.
Sure. The references are:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177 and 176
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791
Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6981, 6982,6983, etc.
Allahu Akbar you gave the references! So that everyone (other Christians not so educated could look these up).
Now I would love to see ANY Christian on this planet that can show in any of those hadeeth quoted that the Muslims actually carried out the request from the stones and trees.
Just because they say oh believer here is a Jew come and kill him does that mean we have to obligate trees and stones?
I wanted for you to give the references because this is the best that you people got.
What is being said in these lone narrator reports is that in the last days stones (seemingly immovable objects at-least large enough to hide under or behind) and trees (that have deep roots) these are figures of powers that protect those Jews today who are engaged in evil.
In the last days those Jewish people who are engaged in acts of treachery with their fellow man that those protecting them (Christian Evangelist , United States) would finally become disgusted with their acts.
The protective heads would be removed.
Now it is up to the Muslims to forgive, take revenge etc...
With all the anger and hatred directed towards Israel you would be quite surprised at the capacity of forgiveness and forbearance that Allah puts into the human heart.
As far as Anwar Alwaki the west will use him as an excuse and a pre-text for the next stage in their game.
This is what they (those opposed to Islam will do next). Knowing that they cannot defeat Islam they will encourage more dissension among the rank and file of Muslims.
They will pull out of Afghanistan and encourage war between the N Alliance vs Taliban vs Shi'a factions. No doubt covert operations will play a roll.
They will play the traditional Muslims off against the Salafi or Salafist like Anwar Alwaki.
Did anyone notice how the Imam of the NYC Masjid was always being called a 'Sufi'. So the machinations have been and will continue to be laid out.
The real enemies were Muhammed Abduh, Jamal Ad Deen Al Afghani (or what ever his REAL name is) and Rashid Rida.
These three were trained by the Freemasons in France, told the Muslim world not to follow traditional scholars, that Taqleed was bad, radicalized Muslims, introduced Socialist principles, and brought us our so called "Islamic Banks" -Egypt a case in point.
Al Abani (May Allah have mercy on him) and other Salafist , whom I disagree with on allot of issues but nonetheless they have ALWAYS condemned SUICIDE bombings and ESPECIALLY against civilians.
Go and look at those Muslim scholars who DO NOT condemn suicide bombings and follow their teachers...your going to find Rida, Abduh and Al Afghani's marking's all over them!
To anonymous :
and either are your orthodox co religionists, or your orthodox scholars, since they all interpret it as a command, or you for that matter since you seem to think its a "prophecy".
Can you show me who is the scholar who takes this as a command? The HAdith is speaking about events happening before the hour, Muslims will fight the Anti-Christ leading a jewish army. I don't know of any scholar who believes that the Hour has come, and the Dajjal is already here.
By the way , to make the difference between a command and a prophecy, take grammar courses.
To 1MoreChristian
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "
How in the world this constitutes a command? Review your English grammar.
YFC it is YOU who's the deciever. i can tell you're getting quite a bit edgy. Tell me what does blowing up girl's schools have to do with anything islam?
oh and i'd love to see those "violent verses" you mentioned.
YFC do you even know what "stan" means?
Not all Muslim countries are with "stan". Khalistan is a proposed Sikh state, the nickname for India is Hindustan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan are all secular states. Please think before throwing mindless points.
tgv said:
I wanted for you to give the references because this is the best that you people got.
No, the best indication for Muslim hate of nonMuslim would be surah 9:29 from the Quran. Of course, all of these hadiths (slaughter the jews, etc.) are based on the foundation of that surah. It was one of the last ayas from Moe when he was on his death bed, it is a call to jihad and to fight and kill unbelievers. Because of such violent commands in the Quran, Muslims will take the hadit and juxtapose it with this surah, such hadits as the ones telling muslims to slaughter all jews, and will come away with a COMMAND instead of, as you say, prophecy.
I know there are many interpretations of the Quran. Thing is they are all wrong and the only interpretation that fits the bill is Muhammads call to violent jihad. With this in mind, any and all hadit become fair play for a Muslim to use as Muhammads commandments. Simply put it side by side with surah 9:29, and see what you come away with.
Anonymous: I know there are many interpretations of the Quran. Thing is they are all wrong and the only interpretation that fits the bill is Muhammads call to violent jihad.
All hail Anonymous, the unintelligent expert of Islam. Everybody is wrong except for him!
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