Friday, 18 March 2011

Spirituality and the “Ex-Muslim” ABN

Puzzling: C.L.Edward’s Testimony on ABN

I have been aware of this gemtleman’s YouTube activity but he seems to be celebrated as an ex-Muslim by Christian missionaries. I fear this man has entered Christianity without thorough investigation. Not only this, I am extremely concerned as to his alleged claim of not feeling spirituality whilst in Islam. Alarm bells always ring when“ex-Muslims” make such a claim. Louder still, as this gentleman, claims to have been a Muslim for a decade. Now, why in the world are you going to stay in a faith which offers you no spirituality for TEN YEARS???

I don’t know if he truly was a Muslim in the past or whether he is doing an Ergun Caner. Nevertheless, if this man reckons he will experience more spirituality whilst worshipping Prophet Jesus (p) he has another thing coming. Jesus did not even worship Jesus!

Jesus worshipped God. I’d advise our friend to ponder upon that.

Spirituality in Islam

Did this gentleman ever pray, sincerely? When I pray I can feel overwhelming spirituality – an out of this world experience. The same applies to reciting the Quran or even listening to it. The Muslim feels tranquillity whilst remembering the Lord through prayer or general remembrance of Allah (God). I can attest to it.

I’ve seen Jesus (p) (Jesus was supplicating to Allah) and other pious figures in my dreams. I’ve heard and seen the Quran in dreams. I’ve had other fabulous spiritual experiences which are not uncommon amongst Muslims. These are spiritual experiences which are the blessings from God and are beneficial to those who reflect deeply.

Now, if somebody wants to sit there and seriously tell me, for ten years as a Muslim, he/she never felt spirituality whilst praying, I’d be shocked. To further compound the shock the gentleman left pure monotheism (the monotheism of Abraham, Moses and Jesus, pbut) for the worship of the Trinity. It does not make any sense!

You are closest to God whilst in the state of prostration. The spirituality you can experience whilst being in such a state is mind-blowing. Jesus experienced such spirituality as he, too, worshipped Allah (God) like the Muslims do.

I invite, this gentleman, to have a rethink and enter Islam.

Spiritual Battle: Muslim vs Demon

Muhammad and Jesus (p)

Christian Missionary Pastor converts to Islam

Bible: Muslims are blessed

Feedback: yahyasnow@hotmail.com

77 comments:

Anonymous said...

There goes yahya...dreaming again. Sir, quit telling us about your dreams. No one cares what happens in your head when you are asleep. You are not a prophet; neither was Muhammad. By the way, quit writing posts in your sleep as well. Do us a favor and give us sound reason and evidence, not your unconscious brain activity.

Radical Moderate said...

Yahya So how does it feel when you pray and you feel your GOD AT YOUR THROAT

Anonymous said...

Hi, i simply needed to come here to show you about a super inexpensive service that posts comments similar to this on millions of Wordpress blogs. Exactly why you might ask, well you might want to sell a product and target webmasters or merely just increase the quantity of backlinks your web site has that will improve your Google rankins which will then bring your website more visitors and cash. Take a fast look at this website for much more information. http://hellomotow.net/backlinks

Anonymous said...

Radical Moderate, maybe Yahya needs a Holy Spirit enema?

1moremuslim said...

Radical Moderate:

So your God is not at your throat?
How does it feel when a Christian, while praying to Jesus, the roof of his church crumbles upon his head killing him, and dozens of worshipers?

The irony is that Christians criticize Islam for having a God who is distant, on the other hand they deny God being as close as the jugular vain. As James White says, inconsistency is the sign of the failed religion.

Anonymous said...

1mm,

It is your scholars who, in the name of transcendence, deny the immanence of your god and that he can be active in and intimately involved with his creation. This isn't an inconsistency in which Christians share; we are ever aware and rejoice in the fact that our God is God in heaven above and on the earth here below. Our God is with us, in our very midst, and never leaves us or forsakes us. You can't say the same...don't even try. Muslims look dumb and make themselves look ignorant when they start pretending the have a personal relationship with Muhammad's deity. There is a reason you guys put Muhammad at the center of everything: your god isn't there.

sam1528 said...

anonymous ,

From you : '..Our God is with us, in our very midst, and never leaves us or forsakes us. You can't say the same...don't even try..'

'Eli eli lama sabachthani'... even god the father has forsaken god the son and you claim your god never forsake you. You have a huge problem.

Radical Moderate said...

Now Now Now, I know Muslims this testimony was "FAITH SHATTERING" for you. But let's try to keep it civil. If you don't act like Mohamed I promise I will try to be more Christ like.

Radical Moderate said...

1moreMuslim and Yahya

When you go into the bathroom, is your God still at your throat?

Anonymous said...

Sammy,

Jesus is the solution to my big problem; try to keep up. He was smitten for me.

It must be the Islam in you. People otherwise just are not this slow. Ask Jesus to deliver you from the spirit that keeps you deceived.

Radical Moderate said...

Sam1528 said...

"Eli eli lama sabachthani'... "

The closing line of that psalm is

"All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness,
declaring to a people yet unborn:
He has done it!"

Yes Sam1528 All who go down to the dust will kneel before him. That includes you.

Because HE HAS DONE IT.

Radical Moderate said...

Yahya Snow

All joking aside, I am curious, what does it feel like when you pray.

Do you feel " giddiness, lightheadness, and pleasure"

Yahya Snow said...

@ the anonymous who claimed Muslims put Muhammad (p) at the centre of everything.

No. Sir, we worship God and remember God as well as thank him all day long. We fast, give charity and perform pilgrimage for God.

In short, God is at the centre of our lives.

If you are a Christian you have diluted a realtionship with God as you have added other entities to God (ie you add a man, Prophet Jesus to God)

Many of you ignore the Holy spirit (which you also believe to be God) in favour of Jesus. It is true for the Father (abba in Hebrew, which orignally was an informal term for God as it reflected the closeness one should strive for with God) as you wear your "Jesus T Shirts" whilst yelling "Jesus loves you" yet ignore the Father and the holy spirit (all of whom you believe to be 'persons' of God). You even have more pics of "Jesus" than you do of the "Father" and the "Holy spirit".

I put it to you, that you have made a man, the centre of your lives - the Prophet Jesus (p)

Think about it.

Yahya Snow said...

Radical Moderate

Thanks for asking.

No, the spiritual feeling is not a physical feeling so there is no lightheadedness or anything of a physical nature.

You must experience it. Please go to your local mosque and convert to Islam and try it. I guarantee you, it is out of this world.

You will enjoy it better than your favourite food, hobby or sport.

I invite you spirituality.

Anonymous said...

Ibn here.

Anonymous: Jesus is the solution to my big problem; try to keep up. He was smitten for me.

Osiris was also smitten as were other gods in mythology. Alhamdolillah! My God doesn't die.

Let me put it to you this way. God is the greatest being conceivable. For obvious reasons, greater beings than Jesus can be conceived. A being who does not die is greater than Jesus. A being who does not eat or drink is greater than Jesus. A being who can be at various places at the same instance is greater than Jesus, and so forth. You get the picture. Since greater beings than Jesus can be conceived, what good reasons do I have for accepting him as God? Please don't respond by saying that no god can give as good a pleasure as the Holy Spirit enema!

Also, when you respond be very careful not to make question begging remarks or circular arguments which are atypical of Christian apologists.

Anonymous said...

Jesus is at the center of our lives. I hope you don't think you just came up with that and don't think you are giving us some NEWs. The difference between Jesus being central to our lives and Muhammad being central to yours, is precisely because Jesus is, as the prophecy declares, GOD WITH US. Your Muhammad is not that, but he is the best you can do given that your god is not personally involved with you. My God accepts and relates to me through Jesus Christ and by His Spirit, and through the Spirit the Father and the Son communicate their love and presence in a way you guys know nothing of. that's why you need muhammad to make you feel close to something; that's why you need to imitate his every movement; his every thought; he is a virtual god for you people...well, he is at least as close as you guys get to having a god who has much of anything to do with your everyday lives.

Keep trying. It will never measure up to what we have in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. When you are through trying and pretending, you know where to go.

(P.S. I do hope you call into ABN tonight so you can put your claims to the test. It would be nice to see you demonstrate your confidence that your god is with you. But if you doubt this, then we understand.)



Of course we worship the Father through Jesus in the Holy Spirit. Our lives are God-centered, which means it neither disparages Christ=

Anonymous said...

Correction: which are typical of Christian apologists.

Radical Moderate said...

Yahya Snow said...

"I put it to you, that you have made a man, the centre of your lives - the Prophet Jesus (p)"

No sir we put GOD our Lord Jesus Christ as the Center of our lives.
We worship the Father, by the Blood of his son Jesus Christ through Gods Holy Spirit.

But I find it interesting that you deny that Mohamed is the center of your life.

Surah 33:6

"The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves,..."

So you have Allah is closer to you then your Jugular Vein, (although its not allah but his Angels) You have Mohamed closer to you then your own selves, and you have Satan coursing through your blood.

" the Prophet had said, "This is Safiya"). And satan circulates in the body of Adam's offspring as his blood circulates in it." (Sahi Bukari Book 33, Hadith #254)

" When the Prophet noticed him, he called him and said, "Come here. She is Safiya. (Sufyan a sub-narrator perhaps said that the Prophet had said, "This is Safiya"). And satan circulates in the body of Adam's offspring as his blood circulates in it." (A sub-narrator asked Sufyan, "Did Safiya visit him at night?" He said, "Of course, at night.") (Book #33, Hadith #255)"

" Allah's Apostle said, "satan circulates in the mind of a person as blood does (in his body). I was afraid that satan might put some (evil) thoughts in your minds." (Book #53, Hadith #333)"

Talk about a Un Holy Trinity.

Allah at your throat, Satan in your blood, and Mohamed closer to you then you are to your own self.

Radical Moderate said...

Yahya Snow

I do hope you come out of hiding (that goes for the rest of you Text Jihadi warriors) and call in to ABN tonight and or tomorrow.

It would be nice to see you come out of your spider wholes for a while. Don't worry we don't bite.

Anonymous said...

Ibn here.

Fat:"The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves,..."

And this is supposed to prove that Muslims worship Muhammad(saw)?

Anonymous said...

Ibn,

Please quiet down while the grown folk are talking. We are not interested in hearing about how you don't fear God and have a filthy mouth willing to spew forth evil statements about God's blessed Holy Spirit.

Also, thanks for admitting that even the Osiris of paganism has it up on Islam. That was too rich.

Also, I love the Freudian slip and admission that fallacious arguments are "atypical" of how Christians argue. Sorry I can't return the favor: fallacious arguments, like yours above, are TYPICAL of how Muslims argue.

Your foolish argument points to Christ's human attributes and compares them with divine qualities of impassibility, immutability, etc., all of which are true of Him in His divine nature. In any event, no one is interested in playing with you. You are a proud and boastful blasphemer and you too often say dumb things that come back to haunt you, which is so very TYPICAL. Now let us play with the "big boys".

Radical Moderate said...

@Anon

Thanks for sending IBN back to the Kiddie table.

Radical Moderate said...

@Yahya Snow
And the rest of the Text Jihadi's

"Who will be allahs helper" tonight and tomorow and call into ABN?

Anonymous said...

Ibn here.

Anonymous: Please quiet down while the grown folk are talking. We are not interested in hearing about how you don't fear God and have a filthy mouth willing to spew forth evil statements about God's blessed Holy Spirit.

Don't blame me for mentioning the Holy Spirit enema. It was Benny Hinn's wife who came up with this amusing term. See for yourself here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jhw_5ye8Qo


Anonymous: Your foolish argument points to Christ's human attributes and compares them with divine qualities of impassibility, immutability, etc., all of which are true of Him in His divine nature.

Lol! It is exactly as I predicted. I warned you about making question begging remarks and circular arguments and what do you do? You make a circular argument! You dispute my contention that beings greater than Jesus can be conceived by PRESUPPOSING that Jesus was actually the greatest being who was only pretending to be a human. The problem is, even this circular argument of yours won't work. Using the same logic as before, I can think of a divine being with a human nature who even in his human attributes surpassed Jesus by, for instance, not requiring to eat, sleep, drink; or by being able to fly or run at the speed of light, etc. In other words, a super human.

Lets see what circular argument you have to offer now.

Anonymous said...

What a dummy. You obviously don't know how things work. You don't get the liberty of arguing against a position without taking the position itself into account. You don't get to complain when you attack something LESS THAN or the OPPOSITE of what someone believes, and then accuse them of engaging in circular reasoning when they catch you up to speed.

I did not say Jesus has divine attributes because he has divine attributes, dummy. That's circular reasoning. I said: you are wrong to argue against the idea that Jesus is the God-man by assuming that he only had human attributes. In other words, you are the buffoon who is trying to argue against the deity of Christ by assuming/presupposing He did not have divine attributes. Get a clue, and a grip. That's why you were told to sit this one out and let the grown ups handle it from here on out. You just don't have enough horespower under the hood for this race. Park it.

Anonymous said...

By the way, do you seriously think your dumb attempt at an ontological argument against Jesus would pass as cogent in any philosophical setting? Surely you are only doing this for the amusement of your mutually gullible and naive muslim brothers here.

Radical Moderate said...

@IBN

Will you be allah's helper tonight and call into ABN.

Anonymous said...

Ibn here.

Anonymous: I did not say Jesus has divine attributes because he has divine attributes, dummy.

Way to misrepresent what I said about you! I said, "You dispute my contention that beings greater than Jesus can be conceived by PRESUPPOSING that Jesus was actually the greatest being who was only pretending to be a human."

Those are my exact words. Do they sound or look anything along the lines of, "Jesus has divine attributes because he has divine attributes"? No.

Anonymous: I said: you are wrong to argue against the idea that Jesus is the God-man by assuming that he only had human attributes.

Where did I assume that Jesus had only human attributes? In fact, in my last response, I said explicitly "I can think of a divine being with a human nature ....." You see that? I was comparing my conception of a divine being with a human nature to Jesus who you believe was a divine being with a human nature.

Anonymous: In other words, you are the buffoon who is trying to argue against the deity of Christ by assuming/presupposing He did not have divine attributes.

Clam down! The enemas must be getting to you! What you are suggesting is that I presupposed Jesus was only human, and therefore not God, which led me to the conclusion that he was not God. If had made such a supposition, then I would have been guilty of fallacious reasoning indeed. However, the fact is I made no such presupposition. I clearly talked about conceiving a divine being with a human nature which took for granted the Christian belief regarding Christ.

Anony: By the way, do you seriously think your dumb attempt at an ontological argument against Jesus would pass as cogent in any philosophical setting?

It sure has rattled you! Hence, the reason why you are grasping at straws!

Anonymous said...

Rm: Will you be allah's helper tonight and call into ABN.

That's like asking me to watch Jerry Springer.No thanks. I'd rather spent my time and money doing something decent.

Abdul said...

"Will you be allah's helper tonight and call into ABN"

What would be the point?

All Wood and company do is shout over the Muslim caller once they begin speaking, cut them off and then prattle on non stop for about 10 mins....and then repeat

No Muslim caller I've ever seen on there has the chance to speak.

At least here everyone has the chance to put forward their views and be heard.

Radical Moderate said...

No one will be Allah's helper tonight? For shame for shame. NO VIRGINS (or plump raisins with swollen breasts) FOR YOU

Abdul said...

RadicalModerate

I think the show has already started, run along now and let the adults speak, there's a good chap ;)

Michigan Raider said...

Tony Blair's sister-in-law Lauren Booth converts to Islam after a 'holy experience' in Iran


Conversion: Lauren Booth
Tony Blair’s sister-in-law has converted to Islam after having a ‘holy experience’ in Iran.
Broadcaster and journalist Lauren Booth, 43 - Cherie Blair’s half-sister - said she now wears a hijab head covering whenever she leaves her home, prays five times a day and visits her local mosque ‘when I can’.
She decided to become a Muslim six weeks ago after visiting the shrine of Fatima al-Masumeh in the city of Qom.
‘It was a Tuesday evening and I sat down and felt this shot of spiritual morphine, just absolute bliss and joy,’ she told The Mail on Sunday.
When she returned to Britain, she decided to convert immediately.
‘Now I don’t eat pork and I read the Koran every day. I’m on page 60. I also haven’t had a drink in 45 days, the longest period in 25 years,' she said.
'The strange thing is that since I decided to convert I haven’t wanted to touch alcohol, and I was someone who craved a glass of wine or two at the end of a day.’
Refusing to discount the possibility that she might wear a burka, she said: ‘Who knows where my spiritual journey will take me?’
Before her awakening in Iran, she had been ‘sympathetic’ to Islam and has spent considerable time working in Palestine. ‘I was always impressed with the strength and comfort it gave,’ she said of the religion.
Miss Booth, who works for Press TV, the English-language Iranian news channel, has been a vocal opponent of the war in Iraq.
In August 2008 she travelled to Gaza by ship from Cyprus, along with 46 other activists, to highlight Israel’s blockade of the territory.
She was subsequently refused entry into both Israel and Egypt.
In 2006 she was a contestant on the ITV reality show I’m A Celebrity .  .  . Get Me Out Of Here!, donating her fee to the Palestinian relief charity Interpal.
She said she hoped her conversion would help Mr Blair change his presumptions about Islam.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1323278/Tony-Blairs-sister-law-Lauren-Booth-converts-Islam-holy-experience-Iran.html#ixzz1GjEtIsTe

Anonymous said...

Ibn, just because you can't keep track of your own lies doesn't mean I am not following along.

Your original argument assumed that Jesus only had human attributes. It was your later attempt to rescue the obviously (and now admittedly) fallacious nature of this argument by changing the original terms.

With respect to your new version, you are assuming a scale of greatness that I reject. Who said that a divine person becoming a man who suffered like me and for me is not greater than one who could not and would not do such things? Only a Muslim would think such a thing, because of course the Muslim god, if I may now have the pleasure of inserting my own "scale of greatness", is just not that great. Your god is beneath the God of the Bible precisely because he pretends to be too great to do what it takes to rescue man from his just deserts.

Hopefully you (and the other younglings here) can now see why your argument hasn't rattled my cage and is not held or advocated by anyone in academic circles.

Now I have told you how little you are worth my time, especially since you reason and blaspheme God like a rebellious child. So go and make sand castles or something while I try to have an adult conversation with any other grown up who may be in the room. (Although, it looks like Yahya is hiding.)

By the way, you have to love how the Muslims on here are making excuses for why they won't call in. We all know that even if Yahya was given equal time, he still wouldn't call in. That man is as scared as they come of Christian apologists.

Michigan Raider said...

The American (NBC) says " more than twenty thousands persons convert to Islam every year in USANBC

NEWS:20000 Americans Convert To ISLAM Each Year!

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/2PS2creVhaM

An American priest says " A lot of priests convert to islam "

YusufEstes - Priests and Preachers accepting Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/E6K0627FiCk

Many Latinos Convert Daily To ISLAM .. Live From Venezuela!

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/1XyrxzQIN9w

Every day many Germans convert to ISLAM :

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/34kjurzK500

Holland TV:ISLAM fastest spreading Faith among Youth Germans:

www.youtube.com/watch/v/WAXXN6XOnzQ

Thousandsof Danish convert to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/kru6XQ8CT48

TV Report Thousands Hispanics Converting To ISLAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/yDwGsmTx3D4

German Scientist & his wife ,clinic assistant convert to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/uP-2IqH_l4c

European Scientist converts to Islam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/0IspK651RpY

Dr. Ian Weber from England converts to Islam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/gUZR6XwU8Pw

Science students turn to Islam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/y3_JYk4Bo4Y

TV_ReportChristians Convert To ISLAM in France

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/Dhu0eEuIsGg

Turning Muslim in Texas - People reverting to Islam in Texas

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...46116459496814

AngelaCollins - Muslim Convert weeks after 9/11 Incident

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/j6PJgJdEzNM

NEW MUSLIM Woman from Australia CONVERT :

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/-baqULx5IBU

The Choice - A Story of New American Muslim Convert

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/CML3CRPMefA

Irish and "loving Islam" Convert to Islam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/dIc5oFAva-4

Jewish To Islam convert

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/KcBiJnLjwVw

A Moslem tells what happen to after converting to Islam

www.youtube.com/watch/v/IlOuITPE6kE

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/1qpQvpmEqkc

Why do they accept the Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/aJ3TGAnFc-U

Convert to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/36Glj_FAGcw

Convert to Islam from Canada

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/uKPer2fma9U

Revert to Islam - Brian From Christianity (Convert to Islam) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/bI_YVnD9UvI

Many Jew and Christian Families Convert To ISLAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/84ZtVLI5kXM

British Catholic Priest Converted To ISLAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/pn0iPlWQNlI

Michigan Raider said...

Greece Men Convert to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/IlAjkuECrHc

Convert to Islam from Hinduism

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/zePqNxz895U

Christians Convert to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/HDkW2Y35mKQ

Twenty two/22 Brothers and sisters convert to (Islam) ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/XQBn6loQTdY

Two british Women of different colours convert to Islam

www.youtube.com/watch/v/uEfMcPQfv7w

German convert to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/9U1zNXXQA6Q

Three French Sisters Convert To ISLAM :

www.youtube.com/watch/v/JiksSo0lwL4

Sister Yvonne Ridley Becomes Muslim Islam Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/aOe5s5hP4Gw

WHY Christians German Lady convert to ISLAM, SEE VIDEO

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/afFv22Wsd5A

Germany Convert To ISLAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/os4vUxfJizU

Jerome How I wrestled my way to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/b2YZGGDGUWE

The story of a German convert to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/gjRjzTAk-RQ

Revert to Islam - Abdus Salam (Convert to Islam) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/VqlilLIQJRE

Revert to Islam - Maryam Noor (Convert From Christianity) ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/ig0N9aRT0Hc

Germans convert to Islam on german TV

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/nFqj3xPKc88

TVReport Rechtsanwalt konvertiert zum ISLAM :

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/_4LrIv6kK9o

Jolene A Southern Baptist Converts to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/RHQOx12-WJU

Revertto Islam - Muahmmad Musab (Convert From Christianity) .... http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/Co0xom_KcXM

Revertto Islam - Yusuf Ali (Convert to Islam) ... :

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/NcjXK7qzE_k

How Melina came to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/jLht7Kk0bGg

Revert to Islam - Abdullah Laban (Convert to Islam) ... :

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/gGeHzUkkJH4

TVReport Latinos Leaving The Church And Turning To ISLAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/j2w14xxi0bM

William Chappelle and 25 members of his family embrace Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/mkBW4l4TmPE

Islam InNetherlands

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...97847671713770

6 German convert to Islam - 2007 - LIVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/0SpqpGKp7ts

Caroline convert from christianity to islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/2Cpmvne2wj0

Japanese Women Turning To ISLAM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/L7PIOhK-SgA

American converted Muslim Woman speaking about the Veil
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/L85Mcq3EDX8

Michigan Raider said...

anonymous (abn.com stooge) is saying By the way, you have to love how the Muslims on here are making excuses for why they won't call in.

You are scared of giving Osama Abdullah a chance to speak. You are full of it.

Anonymous said...

Ibn here.

Anonyclown: Your original argument assumed that Jesus only had human attributes.

Prove to me that my original argument was based on the belief that Jesus was only a human.

Anonyclown: With respect to your new version, you are assuming a scale of greatness that I reject. Who said that a divine person becoming a man who suffered like me and for me is not greater than one who could not and would not do such things?

You are attacking a straw man. I did not say anything about suffering. All I said was it is possible to conceive a divine being who had a human nature superior to Jesus' human nature and the examples I gave were, "not requiring to eat, sleep, drink; or by being able to fly or run at the speed of light, etc". Do you find any reference to suffering? Please admit that you are attacking a straw man since you can't deal with my actual argument.

Anonyclown: By the way, you have to love how the Muslims on here are making excuses for why they won't call in.

Get off your high horses man! I've come across a number academic papers and books about Islam, written by non-Muslim scholars of the faith, that present highly revisionist accounts of the origins of Islam and Quran, and guess what? my faith wasn't shaken. What makes you think that the ramblings of some Christian missionaries at ABN who have no formal education in Islam whatsoever are worth my time and effort? Have they produced anything of substance which even academia would acknowledge? No.

Yahya Snow said...

@Radical Moderate

Who needs to call them when you can just correct them here:

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2011/03/moon-god-exposed-christian-missionary.html

@anonymous (the one claiming Muslims are afraid of Christian apologists)

Erm, the lies of Christian apologists have been put to the sword by many Muslims.

Nobody is scared. People are bored of your apologists....don't get that confused for "scared".

And here are two of your boys taking their latest beating:

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2011/03/moon-god-exposed-christian-missionary.html

Peace

Radical Moderate said...

We are a Half hour away Muslims, is there anyone who is going to be Allahs Helper? Who will help Allah and his messenger get rid of these rascals.

Surely there is someone brave enough to call in.

Anonymous said...

RadicalIdiot: We are a Half hour away Muslims, is there anyone who is going to be Allahs Helper? Who will help Allah and his messenger get rid of these rascals.

You know the Quraysh used to taunt the Prophet(saw) in the same manner. For instance, in Surah 29:54, they challenged Muhammad(saw) to bring God's wrath upon them. Of course, as we all know, 13 years later Mecca fell to the Muslims.

Regarding ABN, do you realize how desperate you sound in wanting Muslims to call in? Have you ever thought the reason why we don't tune into ABN is because Wood and his groupies aren't worth the attention? On my part, I only pay attention to academic stuff on Islam that appears in reputed journals or books published by academic institutions. I have very little patience for crap which appears on shows like ABN which however you look at it is simply the Evangelical equivalent of Jerry Springer.

Radical Moderate said...

WOW, Listing to the ABN broadcast and I can see why you Muslims don't want to call in. Devastating FAITH SHATTERING. WOW. Close you ears Muslims you don't want to listen to this. Simply devastating.

Anonymous said...

Radical: Devastating FAITH SHATTERING. WOW

Good luck trying to convince academia about your devastating faith shattering insights.

Radical Moderate said...

Mohamed said if he was a false prophet then my allah sever his aorta. Mohamed said as he is dying "I fell my aorta being severed."

From the words of Mohamed himself he is a false prophet.

This must be really faith shattering and devastating. If it wasn't muslims would call in and be allahs helper.

Your allah needs help call in.

ergun said...

lol sam refuted waleed shoebat. haha. faith shattering for dumb christian fans of walled shoebat

Anonymous said...

ergun smergun,

NO Christian's faith rests on the infallibilit of shoebat. However, all muslims depend on Allah as if he were god. If Muhammad goes, Islam goes bye bye with him. Not so with Walid and Chritianity. Get a clue.

Radical Moderate said...

Anon

What I find is funny all the Muslims on this blog are to busy to waist their time to be allahs helper. But you know most of them watched the show lol. But they were to afraid to call in.

But they will come on this blog and complain that David from AM has blocked them, and attack the show after it is over with. But none of them will call in.

What a sad bunch of helpers allah has.

ergun said...

special message 4 radical and 4 u all from abn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcUzL3nq5Pw

sam1528 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sam1528 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sam1528 said...

anonymous ,

from you '..Jesus is the solution to my big problem; try to keep up. He was smitten for me.

It must be the Islam in you. People otherwise just are not this slow. Ask Jesus to deliver you from the spirit that keeps you deceived..'

Ha ha , biblical jesus cannot even save himself. How do you expect him to save you? Still waiting for your answer.

Then you go blabbering about being slow. A retard - like you , is a person who expects to be saved by a person who cannot even save himself. This is classic comedy.

sam1528 said...

radical moderate ,

What is the connection , the lines from psalms , have to do with the fact that your so called god , biblical jesus , cannot even save himself from being nailed to the cross - yet its your salvation?

Why place your salvation on someone who you think died on the cross? All the prophets that came before never taught anyone to place their salvation on the event / process of someone they thought to have died on the cross.

A person who cannot even save himself is not in a position to save others. Agree??

Anonymous said...

Ibn here

RadicalModerate:Mohamed said if he was a false prophet then my allah sever his aorta. Mohamed said as he is dying "I fell my aorta being severed." From the words of Mohamed himself he is a false prophet.This must be really faith shattering and devastating.

It is not earth shattering at all considering that 69:44-47 PRESUPPOSES that Muhammad(saw) was sent by God as a Messenger. If the Messenger of God, not just any human being, were to make stuff up about Allah only then would the latter punish him by causing him to die IMMEDIATELY (not over a span of 4 years from the eating of a poisoned lamb as the hadith would have us believe).

Really, that's the best you guys can come up with?

Radical Moderate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Radical Moderate said...

@Sam1528

You said....
"A person who cannot even save himself is not in a position to save others. Agree??"

Wow thats original? Christians have never heard such arguments before. Oh wait Christ himself heard those very same words.

"Crucified two rebels with him, one on his right and one on his left. [28] [a] 29 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, “So! You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, 30 come down from the cross and save yourself!” 31 In the same way the chief priests and the teachers of the law mocked him among themselves. “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! 32 Let this Messiah, this king of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe.” Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him." (Mark 15:27-32)

Again
"Two rebels were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. 39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40 and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!” 41 In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! He’s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” 44 In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him." (Mathew 27:38-44)

And again
"The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”"..."One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”" (Luke 23:35,39)

You see your attack, is nothing new, your insults are nothing new, your mocking is nothing new. These were all things that the UN BELIEVERS hurled at Jesus when he was on the cross.

The answer came three days later, in a empty tomb. To bad your prophet died of a severed aorta, and is now dry dusty bones in the earth somewhere in KSA.

sam1528 said...

radical moderate ,

TQ. So you agree that biblical jesus cannot even save himself. How can he save you?

The passages of Mark 15:27-32 , Mathew 27:38-44 , Luke 23:35,39 confirm in me saying that he cannot even save himself. If he was / is god as you believe then he was / is a hopeless god. How do you expect him to save you? You still have not answered the question.

Prophet Muhammad(saw) was a man. He died just like a normal human being and was buried.

Now its BS from you that Prophet Muhammad(saw) died as his aorta was severed. Why can't you use your brains? The hadith you provided did not state his aorta was severed. BTW , can you explain to us what kind of poison technology that kills after 4 years? By that time the body would have got rid of the toxin. Have you ever been to school? The subject biology mean anything to you?

You are trying to change / deflect the argument. Can you answer the question. How can biblical jesus save you as he could not even save himself? So what , if it was an empty tomb. It still does not explain how can he , biblical jesus , save you as he could not even save himself.

Radical Moderate said...

Sam1528

WOW, so you would be with the Jews, and Pagans, mocking Jesus on the cross. Amazing your hatred knows know bounds

sam1528 said...

radical moderate ,

From you : '..WOW, so you would be with the Jews, and Pagans, mocking Jesus on the cross. Amazing your hatred knows know bounds..'

Huh?? I repeat my question : Biblical jesus could not even save himself , how do you expect him to save you??

Why are you blabbering about biblical jesus being mocked? There is a lesson in the passages of Mark 15:27-32 , Mathew 27:38-44 , Luke 23:35,39. It is not to place one's salvation on someone who cannot even save himself.

Why are you so defensive when faced with facts from your own scripture? Hey its your scripture and (ha ha) quoted by you.

Where is the hatred? Are you not able to face facts?

Radical Moderate said...

@Sam1528

You said again... "Huh?? I repeat my question : Biblical jesus could not even save himself , how do you expect him to save you??"

yeah you would be at the foot of the cross, with the pagans and Jews, mocking him spiting on him saying "Save yourself if you are the son of God".

Man I really feel sorry for you.

sam1528 said...

radical noderate ,

From you : '..yeah you would be at the foot of the cross, with the pagans and Jews, mocking him spiting on him saying "Save yourself if you are the son of God".

Man I really feel sorry for you..'

You are getting to be emotional. People who cannot answer with facts will get emotional to cover up their deficiency.

This happened 2000yrs ago. I was , am and will not be at the foot of the cross uttering such.

Can you answer my question with facts : Biblical jesus could not even save himself , how do you expect him to save you??

Radical Moderate said...

@Sam1528

The only answer I can give you is the same answer that He gave those that were saying the same thing at the foot of the cross you are saying now.

And that is a empty tomb

Anonymous said...

RadicalModerate: a empty tomb

I once bought a packet of Oreo cookies and put them in a cookie jar on my study table. I went outside for a for a while and when I came back and opened the jar, the cookies were gone. The only way that could have happened was if God or Santa Claus had miraculously removed the cookies from their jar.

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Sam said,

Can you answer my question with facts : Biblical jesus could not even save himself , how do you expect him to save you??

I say,

Jesus did not die because he could not save himself He died because it was the only way he could save me

You need to understand that I have sinned against a holy God. I have broken his commandments.

I have not loved him as much as I should. I have at times loved myself more than my neighbor.

Therefore in order for God to maintain his holiness I must die or a sacrifice must me be offered in my place.

Because of the seriousness of the crime of disobedience against a holy God the only sacrifice that will suffice is Jesus...........

Yep he loved me that much

Peace

sam1528 said...

radical moderate ,

from you : '..The only answer I can give you is the same answer that He gave those that were saying the same thing at the foot of the cross you are saying now.

And that is a empty tomb..'

Ha ha , thats all? In other words , you don't have an answer except 'empty tomb'. Like my initial response - so what. Anybody could have walked in and remove the body.

My question again : Biblical jesus could not even save himself , how do you expect him to save you??

Can you try a bit harder ... using your brains might help.

Radical Moderate said...

@Fifth, allow me to introduce you to Sam1528. He has a serious reading comprehension problem. One time he even copied and pasted a comment I made and then responded to the exact opposite of what I said.

Second he will get confused in his arguments, often changing his argument and then when he is caught doing it respond with "ha I tricked you".

My recent exchange with him was on the parable of the ten mina's. His claim was this is in regards to the second coming of Jesus in which Jesus when he returns, will order Christians to kill anyone who does not believe in him. He even went as far as to claim that John Gill supports his interpretation.

When it was pointed out that John Gill is a partial prederest, and believed that it was fulfilled in 70 AD when Jerusalem was sacked. He quickly back tracked and said words to the effect of "Why are you bringing up John Gill, you see your bible is not clear"

I demonstrated to him that when Jesus commands his servants in parables, he is commanding the angles as in the parable of the weeds, and I went over a lengthy exojeet of Revelations with him. Where I demonstrated that when Jesus returns no Christian is going to be involved in any killing. All of which he ignored and just kept repeating his accusation.

Now he makes the same claims of those who were insulting and mocking Jesus at the foot of the cross.

Now I could of pointed out to him that Jesus came to be crucified, as he said three times in Mark.

I could of showed him were Jesus says at his arrest in Mathew 26:53 " Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

There by demonstrating that if he so chose he could of saved himself from the crucification.

I could of also went over a lengthy exojeet of Hebrews 9 and 10.

" He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining[b] eternal redemption." Hebrews 9:12
And in Hebrews 10
"But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Hebrews 10:12-14

As well as go over Lev 5 and 6 when it comes to the sacrifice for sin. As well as "Life is given in the blood I give it to you for the atonement for sins. God shedding blood to provide the covering for Adam and Eve, god accepting only blood with Ables sacrifice etc...

As well as the Orthodox Jewish tradition of sacrificing Chickens, the belief by some rabbinical orthodox Jews that Issac was sacrificed for the sins of Israel, etc.. etc...

But what would be the point. If the empty tomb is not enough for him to realize that Christ is raised from the dead.

But if you want to go ahead, maybe you can get through to him, if not have fun :)

sam1528 said...

fifth monarchy man ,

Why are you giving me all these emotional responses? 'Jesus love me' , 'I should love my neighbour' , 'I have sinned against god' etc.

Can you give a factual answer? How do you expect a person like biblical jesus who could not even save himself to save you? A dead person cannot save anybody.

From you : '..Therefore in order for God to maintain his holiness I must die or a sacrifice must me be offered in my place..'

I don't want to be rude. However this is nonsense. God do not need to maintain its holiness via a sacrifice. God don't need you nor your sacrifice nor anybody. Why can't you beg God for its forgiveness. This can be done without a 'third party payment'. Then you can claim you have a personal relationship with God.

Radical Moderate said...

@Fifth

Sam1528 just said...

" A dead person cannot save anybody."

See what I mean. No matter what you show him, he just ignores the truth.

sam1528 said...

radical moderate ,

Ha ha , what have you done so far? You never answered any questions. Why are are you paraphrasing me by saying '..Why are you bringing up John Gill, you see your bible is not clear..'? I said no such thing. The comments are all documented.

You keep on claiming that its the angels doing the job of killing but admit that the time frame is during / after 'end of days'. We were talking about biblical jesus second coming which is before end of days where he goes on a killing spree and commands christians to kill non christians. You cannot even get your time frame correct.

Now you bring up the issue of sacrifice per heb9/10. The requirement for an animal sacrifice is that the animal must be flawless , lev3:6 '..If you offer an animal from the flock as a fellowship offering to the LORD, you are to offer a male or female without defect..'.

Was biblical jesus 'flawless' when he was crucified? Don't think so , he was beaten to a pulp and could be beyond recognition.

You are going around in circles chasing your own backside. Like I said , so what of the empty tomb? A lot can happen - others took his body , he did not die / walked off. Why must it only be that he was resurrected? Oh yeah , him being resurrected makes it worse , biblical jesus cannot even save himself from death and need a higher god to resurrect him. You should worship the higher god which has the power to resurrect a dead god.

sam1528 said...

radical moderate ,

From you '..But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”..'

Can you provide the reference from the OT that states of biblical jesus arrest and him going voluntarily to be crucified ie. such prophecy?

By the way , you continuously claim to be under the NT. Hmmmm , suddenly the OT becomes important when you need it to be important. Inconsistency again and again

Radical Moderate said...

Sam1528

I think I was clear to anyone who does not have a reading comprehension problem. But since you do, I will state for the last time.

I"M DONE WITH YOU. STAY IN ISLAM, like 1moremuslim you are the greatest weapon against ISLAM.

sam1528 said...

radical moderate ,

Emotional ranting from you '..I"M DONE WITH YOU. STAY IN ISLAM, like 1moremuslim you are the greatest weapon against ISLAM..'

Ha ha , is there a biblical prophecy for mat26:54? If none then you are trying to pull a fast one.

Zionist christians like you will get emotional once their avenue for BS has run out. Why can't you use your brains and argue on facts?

I can recommend a better option. Come to Islam. Immediately your confusion about worshiping a man who could not even save himself will be cleared.

Radical Moderate said...

Sam1528 I thought I was clear
"I"M DONE WITH YOU. STAY IN ISLAM, like 1moremuslim you are the greatest weapon against ISLAM."

sam1528 said...

radical moderate ,

Ha ha , I know you cannot stay away from me. Hey , I am the one who keeps on slapping you left and right. You are a sucker for punishment. Yes?? Look at how we muslims make you look like a fool. The best part .... you come back for more.

You tried to pull a fast one with mat26:54 .... you know - the verse that points to a nonexistent prophecy.

Why don't you say '..I AM FINISH WITH YOU NOW , I'LL BE BACK WHEN I NEED ANOTHER ROUND OR TIGHT SLAP..'. This is comedy gold

Anonymous said...

sam1528 "I don't want to be rude. However this is nonsense. God do not need to maintain its holiness via a sacrifice. God don't need you nor your sacrifice nor anybody. Why can't you beg God for its forgiveness. This can be done without a 'third party payment'. Then you can claim you have a personal relationship with God."

...Obviously more personal of a relationship than you since you repeatedly refer to your deity as an "it"...

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

You say,

God do not need to maintain its holiness via a sacrifice. God don't need you nor your sacrifice nor anybody.

I say,

God does not need sacrifice like some local island deity.

His holiness requires that all sins be punished. Do you understand the difference?


Propitiatory sacrifice is a means by which God can show grace to sinners while maintaining his holiness.

If you did not reject the Prophets you would know this.

You say,

Why can't you beg God for its forgiveness. This can be done without a 'third party payment'. Then you can claim you have a personal relationship with God.

I say,

If God simply chose to ignore my sin and forgive me with out justice being served and a punishment being carried out he would not be holy.

Such a god would be like a corrupt judge who arbitrarily lets a convicted criminal off with out serving his time. A god who would do such a thing is no god at all and unworthy of worship.

Quote:

When justice is done, it is a joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers.
(Proverbs 21:15)

Many seek the face of a ruler, but it is from the LORD that a man gets justice. An unjust man is an abomination to the righteous, but one whose way is straight is an abomination to the wicked.
(Proverbs 29:26-27)


The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance; he will bathe his feet in the blood of the wicked. Mankind will say, "Surely there is a reward for the righteous; surely there is a God who judges on earth."
(Psalms 58:10-11)



End quote:

peace

sam1528 said...

anonymous ,

From you : '..Obviously more personal of a relationship than you since you repeatedly refer to your deity as an "it"...'

Ever crossed your mind that I am trying to avoid gender connotation?

Lets compare :
-In Islam we pray directly to Allah and ask for forgiveness directly
- In christianity you need a third party to 'die for your sins'

You claim you christians have a personal relationship with god???

sam1528 said...

fifth monarchy man

Where do you get the idea that for god to maintain its holiness all sins have to be punished (and not be forgiven with love / mercy)? Can you provide such reference in the bible? You are defining the role and responsibility of god. Who / what gave you such authority?

Looks like you have rejected the teachings of the prophets.
Quran22:37 '..It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches Allah. it is your piety that reaches Him..'
ps40:6 '..Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but my ears you have opened[c]— burnt offerings and sin offerings[d] you did not require..'

The message is consistent : the intention / repentance of the person is much more important.

Can you define / explain the christian concept of sin? Nobody claim that god simply ignore sins. Why do you claim such?

Bad example! A corrupt judge accepts 'undercounter payment / favours' in return for 'turning a blind eye'. I am sure even the christian god don't do that.

None of the quotes Proverbs 21:15 , Proverbs 29:26-27 ,Psalms 58:10-11 states that god must punish to maintain its holiness.