I’ve just caught a Christian Islamophobe plagiarising Robert Spencer’s fallacious interpretation on Surah 2:223 of the Holy Quran. Muslims should be alert to the sources of these ignorant claims as the most popular Christian Islamophobes are ignorantly regurgitating these lies about Islam. Imam Moustafa Zayed corrects and admonishes Robert Spencer’s blunder concerning Surah 2:223:
On page 173, the author [Robert Spencer] again interprets a famous verse in the Holy Quran in a way that is totally different from all the interpretations of the verse in any Islamic reference. In the Holy Quran (our translation):
“Your women are a tilth for you, so perform your tilth in whichever way you want to...” 2:223
The verse addresses an incident when some of the companions of the Prophet asked him about a Jewish myth that if the intercourse happened in a certain position, the baby would be born cross-eyed. The verse later was revealed to indicate that as long as you’re having natural intercourse with your wife, then you can have that intercourse in any position you want together. The verse never meant by any stretch of the imagination in 1400 years of Islam that a man can do to his wife whatever he wants. Mr. Spencer’s interpretation is just that offensively absurd.
[The Lies About Muahmmad – How you were Deceived into Islamophobia by Moustafa Zayed p337]
Dealing with Christian Lies Concerning this Verse:
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16 comments:
Yahya,
Does this verse allow anal intercourse?
Yahya,
what you say is ridiculous. Spencer is right. A cursory check of Tabari will reveal that: "a farm that can be plowed."
So this verse is not ONLY giving the Muslim man rights to have sex with his wife when, where, and however the man desires, but it is giving the man full rights to do whatever he wants with the BODY of the woman.
anonymous you are an idiot. christians support spencer like he's some sort of prophet. tabari's commentary itself says anal sex is FORBIDDEN. sorry your misinterpreted reinterpreted sadistic views are totally drugged.
its funny to see how many christians take the chicken rob spencer as a scholar LOL.
meanwhile, here's your bible:
Song of Songs 8:1-3 "If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e. vagina liquid], the nectar of my pomegranates (breasts). His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me.
Song of Solomon 8:10 "Dear brothers, I'm a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full— And when my lover sees me, he knows he'll soon be satisfied."
Song of Songs 4:5 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."
Song of Songs 1:13 "My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts."
Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9 I said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.' May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine.
Jeremiah 49:4- How boastful you are about the valleys (refers to the butt)! O backsliding daughter who trusts in her treasures, {saying,} ' Who will come against me?' (who's gonna tackle her from behind) (Jeremiah 49:4)
I dont recall Spencer saying anything about anal sex.
Kathir mentions that legal scholars in Medina allowed it.
There are reports that some of Muhammads companions allowed it.
Scholars such as Ibn al Arabi supported it in their writings.
What about when Ibn Umar commented on this verse, "It came down regarding approaching women in their anuses"? This verse has been used to justify it.
I dont know Ali, just glancing at some books it looks like this was a highly debated issue for Muslims: What does "anna shi'tum" mean in its entirety.
If this verse permits a variety of sexual positions but not anal intercourse, then why is the Qur'an so incredibly ambiguous in stating that? This verse would allow those leaning toward deviant sexual practices to fulfill their desires if they did not have extensive prior knowledge of the "scholarship" behind these words. I thought the Qur'an was practical everyday guidance?
anonymous, it's quite evident that you didn't even glance at Yahya's work. I suggest you read whats on the main page first. do you want to understand the verse? then let yourself.
and bring evidence for what you ranted about. i've NEVER heard of what you just said.
this verse was revealed when a jewish man said you can have sex however you want with your wife. then this verse was revealed. its a metaphor speaking of 'land growth'. grade 5 health-babies come from the vagina not anus.
@ These ignorant anonymous comments
Stop please stop.
Brother Ali, these anonymous Christian folk have no clue what they are talking about. Firstly, anal sex is forbidden by sayings of the Prophet (p), (Ahamad and Tirmidhi).
Ibn Hajar al Asqalani said ALL religious scholars consider it to be forbidden.Ibn Kathir also wrote anal sex is forbidden. All the fiqh books will tell you the same too!
The verse 2:223 was revealed as Jews claimed if you had VAGINAL intercourse from behind the resulting baby will be born cross-eyed. The Quran does away with such superstitions by teaching us (through 2:223) that it is ok to have vaginal intercourse from any position –ie telling us these Jewish traditions are untrue.
There was an ABNSAT Christian which we exposed on YouTube who is now unfortunately tagged as the “anal sex missionary” as he was peddling these lies months/years ago. You can view that episode here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-sojemGNlc
These anonymous Christians have dirty minds perhaps they would like to apply their dirty minds to the bible verse telling women to obey their husbands (see the comment below). Perhaps their dirty minds will exegete that Bible verse to mean anal sex is allowed if the man asks for it. Who knows, these depraved Islamophobic bigots may already be performing such acts and worse.
Christian Islamophobes on the net drive people away from Christianity due to their uncouth behaviour, ignorance and perversions. Then they have the audacity to calim the “holy spirit” is inside them. They are ignorant and uncouth. This is a proof against their belief that God resides in them. May Allah guide them. Ameen.
PS I do want to sate, Spencer was not claiming the verse allowed anal sex. Spencer, unlike these anonymous Christians understood that much at least. For a really informative video by IslamResponses on this subject please see the embedded video which can also be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ZJztr6iIo
@ Brother Ali, you will not be surprised to note your old sparring partner, Dave Wood, was making these ignorant claims in the past. Perhaps this is why these anonymous folk are so active as they know it just further shows the man they are funding is a charlatan. This was written about him months ago:
David Wood on sexual positions
Yes, David Wood is talking sex again. This time he goes to the Jalalayn commentary of Surah 2:223 and he seems to be revelling in it whilst reading it. He forgets to mention this Verse was sent down as a result of a Jewish misconception which claimed the children yielded from such a sexual position (from behind) were born squint-eyed [see Balugh al Maram Hadith 873].
The Quranic Verse makes clear this position is not a sin and Islam done away with the Jewish misconception. I do want to state anal sex is prohibited in Islam [footnote 1 in Bulugh al Maram pg 327, also see hadith 867 and 868 on the same page). One of David Wood’s colleagues (IQ al Rasooli) is infamous for claiming Islam allows anal sex!
Sex positions according to the Bible?
Firstly, in Islam, sex is a two-way relationship so wives do have a say in the way it is conducted as her enjoyment should be considered too. [More information on Islamic marital relations can be found here: http://www.zawaj.com/articles/intimate.html]
Men are in charge of women and women must obey them according to the BIBLE. If David used the same standard then he will have to claim men get to have sex with their wives in any position they fancy ACCORDING to the BIBLE.
In fact this argument can be used more vociferously, so David the next time you want to talk sex positions please open up your Bible (if you are consistent) rather than throwing it under the bus.
Who is in charge? The man (according to 1 Corinthians 11:3):
“…and the head of the woman is man…”
Does David Wood want to impose sexual thoughts on this verse? If so, then I would ask him to read Ephesians 5:22-24 as wives must submit to their husbands in everything. Yes the word EVERYTHING is used.
wives should submit to their husbands in everything. (NIV)
So who is allowed to have sex in any sexual position they want? The Christian husband [according to Dave Wood’s mindset]!
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/11/acts-17-apologetics-blasphemy-women.html
@Yahya Snow
I don't care if this verse allows you Muslims to have Anal sex with your woman. Really I don't care.
However notice the verse says that WOMAN ARE A TILTH. It compares woman to DIRT to a Field to be plowed.
"It [Q. 2.223] came down regarding approaching women in their ANUSES."
[al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muhammad Ibn Jarir. Jami al-Bayan an Ta'wil Aay al-Qur'an [AKA. Tafsir al Tabari]. Ed. Abd Allah Ibn Abd al-Mushin al Turki. 26 vols. Cairo: Hajr Center, AH 1422/AD 2001. Print. 3:751]
Ali,
Yes I did read Yahya's article [before he changed it and inserted the video] and there was absolutely nothing about anal sex there. I also have heard robert spencer lecture on this verse, and I only recall him saying that women are as tilth in Islam. I do not recall him saying anything abou anal sex.
I asked because it is so obvious. If this verse says "any position" what stops it from being anal position? And how is a average Muslim with limited acess to the wonderful "scholars" to know that???
Yahya,
Can you please provide the sayings of Muhammad from Ahamad and Tirmidhi?
You play it off like "anal sex" has been clearly forbidden since the time of Muhammad! There was debate over this issue on the heels of Muhammads death.
Scholars have provided divergant views regarding "so come into your tillage how you choose" - all im saying is that SOME of those scholars allowed anal sex. The disagreements have been about the phrase "anna shi'tum."
You play it off like there was never a disagreement about this point...interesting. Maybe you need to stop lying or start studying more. I bet the hadith you will use has also been disagreed on.
Sayings attributed to Ibn Umar have been used by MUSLIMS as support for anal sex!
Im stil in a real tittle over how this verse can tell a man to do anything he wants with his girl, but not anal sex? I mean...just read it. It is SOOO ambigous but at the same time telling you to HOW YOU WANT and if anyone had an inclination towards that "style" of sex, well all they have to do is read S. 2.223 and they would be justified in their actions! Not everyone has prior knowlege of tafsir etc...like the "scholars of Islam" do. Practical everyday people arent even going to get into that stuff. I thought the Qur'an was practical everyday stuff?
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Ibn Kasir Tafsir It's written:
The Reason behind revealing Allah's Statement: "Your Wives
are a Tilth for You.(so go to your tilth, when or how you will)
meaning, wherever you wish from the front or from behind, as long as sex takes place in one
valve (the female sexual organ), as the authentic
Hadiths have indicated.
For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that;
Ibn Al-Munkadir said that he heard Jabir say that
the Jews used to claim that if one has sex with his
wife from behind (in the vagina) the offspring
would become cross-eyed.
Then, this Ayah was revealed:(Your wives are a tilth for you, so
go to your tilth, when or how you will).
Muslim and Abu Dawud also reported this
Hadith.
Ibn Abu Hatim said that Muhammad bin Al-Munkadir
narrated that Jabir bin Abdullah told him that;
the Jews claimed to the Muslims that if one has
sex with their wife from behind (in the vagina)
their offspring will become cross-eyed.
Ibn Jurayj (one of the reporters of the Hadith)
said that Allah's Messenger said:
From the front or from behind, as long as that
occurs in the Farj (vagina).
Yahya did you know David Wood believes there's a Terror group operating in New York? I honestly (Wallahi) LAUGHED AT THIS!
And you know what his source was? Act for America a Christian hate group thats blocked in Canadian public schools:
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/01/terrorist-training-camp-in-new-york.html
Hello King,
For the sake of argument and my time I will assume you quoted a word for word translation of Ibn Kathir from a reputable source.
Even now all I have to go on is what Kathir fancied to tell me about this verse. If you notice, Kathir says, quote: "For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that"...This is a little snippet of what was actually taught about this verse, a tiny piece of the whole puzzle. I wanted the whole puzzle, or at least more pieces. Kathir only quotes the hadith and sources that he selected and decided to write on. I wanted a little clarification and detail about the disagreements Muslims have, and had about Surah 2.223 waaaay before Kathir came along. You give me Kathir which I read online ;/ Way to Dawah. Surah 2.223 is extremly ambigous.
Besides, Kathir says much more then what you quote.
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