Friday, 17 June 2011

Creed 2:6 Ministries + Nabeel Qureshi Leaving Hatred?


Islamophobia is a sinking ship
 Well Dr Nabeel Qureshi has just set up a ministry of his own, named Creed 2:6. It does appear Dr Nabeel Qureshi is genuinely interested in preaching and regular Christian ministry work. He has distanced himself from the bigotry of Acts 17, though it must be stated, Qureshi is still associated with Acts 17. Time will tell as to the evolution of Nabeel Qureshi.

IF Nabeel has actually turned a new leaf and is interested in love and truth then it is a positive sign. Perhaps, the Muslims who have prayed for him are seeing their prayers being answered somewhat in that Nabeel is moving away from the nefarious.
You can check our past reports/rebukes concerning brother Nabeel in the Nabeel Qureshi section, which will remain for posterity purposes – God Willing.

About Creed 2:6 Ministries

Dr Nabeel Qureshi is the director of the ministry and appears to be the sole evangelist as his wife (Michelle Qureshi) appears to be the only other regular member of the ministry, she seems to have assumed an administerial role rather than an evangelical one.

Nabeel Qureshi as the Director

Dr. Nabeel Qureshi is a former devout Muslim who was convinced of the truth of Christianity through historical reasoning, and a spiritual search for God. Since his conversion, he has dedicated his life to spreading the Gospel through teaching, preaching, writing, and debating.


Nabeel has given lectures at universities and seminaries throughout North America, including the University of Ottawa, Eastern Virginia Medical School, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Southeast Christian Seminary, and Old Dominion University. His focus is on the foundations of the Christian faith and the early history and teachings of Islam.


Nabeel has participated in 16 public debates and is currently director of Creed 2:6 Ministries. He holds an MD from Eastern Virginia Medical School and an MA in Christian apologetics from Biola University. Nabeel is currently finishing an MA in religion at Duke University.

Michelle Qureshi as Executive Secretary

Michelle Qureshi is currently serving in the Coast Guard Honor Guard in Northern Virginia. She greatly desires to serve through ministry and missions work. She has travelled to South Africa to serve those debilitated by the Aids epidemic, as well as to Peru to help orphans. Currently she is training to drill wells so that she can help people without clean water in Nicaragua.


Michelle's pivotal role at Creed 2:6 is the position of executive secretary. She will be handling requests and inquiries as well as finances and scheduling. She has been assisting Dr. Qureshi in ministry since 2008.

Here is a link to Nabeel Qureshi’s Creed 2:6 Ministry:
http://www.creed26.com/#/welcome

Advice for Nabeel Qureshi

I must say, it does appear you are serious about Christianity and evangelizing folk. I hope your ministry can help build social cohesion between Christians and Muslims – this can only be achieved if you genuinely drop bigotry and distance yourself totally from Dave and Sam. As a Muslim, I must admit, Christian ministries do offer aid to impoverished Muslims – for this we (Muslims) should thank our Christian friends. I sincerely hope Nabeel’s ministry does focus on humanitarian efforts too.

Nabeel, a friendly pointer, you would do well to point out you were a former Ahmadi as many Muslims would critique you for this. I’m not criticising you in this regard as I know, from speaking to one of your family members in the past, that you do consider Ahmadiyya to be part of mainstream Islam.

I would urge you to rectify some of your previous wrongs and rebuke your associates for the offense they have caused through their bigotry and deception.

The choice is yours…

Dr Nabeel Qureshi Invited to Islam

Nabeel and Michelle (and all other Trinitarian Christians) are invited to become the brothers and sisters of Jesus (p) by converting to Islam (Mark 3:35). Would you like a relationship with the God whom Jesus worshipped? Surely, the God of Jesus is sufficient for all of us? If the answer is yes, please come to Islam.

I have personally seen a vision of Jesus (p) and he was in the act of supplicated to God (Nabeel will know this as making dua with the hands out in front of the chest). This vision further strengthened me in Islam.

Please give Islam a chance and put aside all the negative stereotypes and experiences you may have been subjected to.

Search for the truth and the truth shall set you free

May Allah guide Nabeel Qureshi and everybody involved with Creed 2:6 (and Acts 17) to the light of Islam. Ameen

FEEDBACK: yahyasnow@hotmail.com

Become a Muslim if you love Jesus (p)

Sexism: Reason to change the Bible

Discover Islam

New Testament Discussed

83 comments:

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of Allah!

Ameen! Excellent post. In fact I think that as Nabeel becomes closer to people like William Lane Craig, or Mike Licona etc he will leave the no names like Wood, Shamoun and I also believe that Nabeel is not too happy with White and his self styled Calvinist anti-hero type.

Nabeel would do well to come clean about the one or two points that we have taken him to task for concerning quotations from books that are not there.

That is all he would have to do. "I was formally associated with a Ministry that had more to do with hatred towards Islam and Muslim than inviting them to Christ Jesus"

"I like to say that I am deeply sorry to my Muslims friends, and although I still believe Islam is a false religion and truth and salvation is only found in Christ Jesus, I look forward to working with Muslims on issues of common concern".

"My approach from now on will be about mending fences, building bridges and showing the love of Christ Jesus."

I personally have never found Nabeel to be as antagonistic and hate filled as some of the bunch.

I personally think it was Wood that would get him riled up (for what ever reason or past they may have had).

The more Dr. Qureshi distances himself from that crowd the better off it will be for him, his future ministry etc.

1MoreMuslim said...

Nabeel Was never a devout Muslim, not even a devout Ahmadi.

1MoreMuslim said...

I didn't know that conducting a christian ministry is such good business. When I see those TV evangelists and their huge fortunes, I say well , may be because they have a big number of followers. But it seems that even the smaller ministries are quite "fruitful".

Radical Moderate said...

@Snowman I see your at it again. What a nonsensical contradictory opening paragraph.

"He has distanced himself from the bigotry of Acts 17, though it must be stated, Qureshi is still associated with Acts 17."

Really he has distance himself from Acts17 but is still associated with Acts17. Doesn't sound like he distanced him self from it. As a matter of fact two of the last three blog posts on AM site where from Nabeel.

Nabeel has also stated that David and He will continue to work together.

Well nice try Snowman.

Radical Moderate said...

Oh you say you saw Jesus in a dream. What did he look like? How do you know it was Jesus?

You say he was bowing to God. What did God look like?

Radical Moderate said...

@1moreMuslim

I'm still waiting for the Surah on the Question of suffering in the Quran, as well as the clear and not clear verses. But I posted this on teh AM blog so I figured I would also post it here to expose you to your Muslim friends on how you dishonor your prophet by claiming Jesus is greater then Mohamed.

@1moreMuslim

You wrote...


"You just admitted , that you were not even a good Ahmadi. MGA is the Messiah, the Mahdi. For a "devout Ahmadi" , MGA is no less than Jesus , moses and others."

So since Nabeel viewed MGA as a lesser figure then Mohamed, and since MGA was the Mahdi to Ahmadi you accuse Nabeel of not being a good Ahmadi.

So does that mean that you view the Mahdi or Jesus as greater then Mohamed?

You also wrote...


"Even the orthodox Christianity, in one time was considered marginal and heretic during Arianism, and their leader ex-communicated and put to exile."

Where do you get your information from. Wikie is a nice site for getting quick facts like dates and such, or even for getting idea's on topics, however not a good source for serious information.

If "Orthodox was the minority position in the world at the time of Nicea, then why did all but 2 Bishops vote in favor of the Nicean creed?

You really need to pick up a book man.

Anonymous said...

What pap and drivel. The God Jesus worshiped was the Father. His Father is the same one who said: "This is my beloved Son, hear Him". You don't worship the Father or believe His testimony about Jesus, i.e. that He is His Son and that He is to be listened to and obeyed. God is not your father and therefore you are not the brothers of Jesus. Plain and simple.

minoria said...

I think Nabeel will do just fine in his new ministry.

Sam asked me some questions again,and since that article has gone to the back I will have to answer them here.

Sam,it is not just IRENEUS who says John was by John in 180 AD in his book.The MURATORI LIST,which most scholars believe is from 170 AD and from Rome,also says John is by John.

ABOUT ISRAEL

I am not against criticism of Israel and that country has done its part in trying to establish peace.

It left the Sinai peninsula for peace with Egypt.It left southern Lebanon and Gaza,in 1967 it accepted the pre-1967 border for peace(which the Muslim countries rejected).

You talk as though it had done nothing.

minoria said...

ABOUT JESUS' SECOND COMING

He didnt say 1 or 2 Jews to believe him but Jerusalem as a whole.

Anyway in QMRAN they found an incomplete copy of ZECHARIAH written BEFORE Jesus was killed.It has:

ZECH 12:10:

"And I(Note:I,God) will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication.

NOTE:God will open the hearts of Jerusalem to the TRUTH

"They will look on me(Note:me,God), the one they have pierced,"

Jesus was pierced by the people of Jerusalem.

If you want you can take it as a metaphorical piercing,not a reference to the CRUCIFIXION but the verse is there.Er,another coincidence with the NT.

minoria said...

THE JEWS IN PALESTINE IN THE 1ST CENTURY EXPECTED THE MESSIAH

This is attested to by scholars.Why?The only logical reason is the DANIEL 9 prophecy.Read here how the ESSENES and JOSEPHUS and also TACITUS and SUETONIUS(Roman historians) say so in their writings.There is reference to that it because of a prophecy (Daniel?):

http://www.avraidire.com/2010/06/why-the-jews-specifically-expected-the-messiah-in-the-1st-century-adbecause-of-the-daniel-9-prophecy/

minoria said...

Look,using the historical method of embarassment the gospels say Jesus' family did NOT believe in him,the priests thought he had a DEMON,once his family thought he was crazy,the people of Nazareth did NOT think he was a prophet.

Yet,the Jesus Seminar says it is historical that Jesus did something that was accepted as being a kind of miracle.

Using the criterion of COHERENCE of the Historical Method THAT was no reason to say one was bad.Prophets were expected to do miracles.

Then WHY reject Jesus?The only logical reason is that the HISTORICAL Jesus said he was God.

minoria said...

LEWIS AND THE TRILEMMA

Lord,Lunatic or Liar.One can add LEGEND(that Jesus saying he was God was INVENTED later).

Using all the evidence one has to reject the legend option as weak.

So Jesus could have been sincere and had great hypnotic power(like RASPUTIN of Russia who stopped the bleeding of the Tsar's hemophilic son) but was DELUDED(thinking he was God).

Or he was a charlatan like Rasputin(even more saying he was God) and had great power of suggestion.

Or he was God.If you are a naturalist then first option is the most logical.A naturalist believes the SUPERNATURAL is impossible.

WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ISLAM?

The Koran says the HISTORICAL Jesus did NOT say he was God but the evidence is he did.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

Why are you still talking about what ireneus thought about john writing 'the gospel according to john'? That is not my argument. I am questioning the 'isnads' of the events related in that book. Oops , sorry its the lack of 'isnads'. You agreed that there are no 'isnads' in any of the narration of the events in the NT.

I repeat my question. Why are you committing your faith in a collection of books (NT) that lacks authentication of its narrated events? I believe a lot of folks in this blog is interested to know. Is it because of blind faith or its the faith or your forefathers hence the continuation of tradition etc.

There has to be a reason.

1MoreMuslim said...

Radical Moderate:

You are ignorant about your church history, let alone Ahmadya.
As an Ahmadi, Nabeel must put MGA at least at the same status as Muhammad PBUH. I said at least, because in MGA own writings , he consider himself higher in status. To expose further the deception of Nabeel, Ahamadya believe that non-Ahmadi are non-Muslim and MGA consider all of us ( Sunnis, christians, Jews ...) as bastards.
You can watch on youtube some Ahamadis making a ceremony for Muslim CONVERTS to Ahamadya. Why do they make conversion ceremony for Sunnis?

Orthodox Christianity was in fact declared heretic by Arian followers. . The father of orthodoxy , Athanasius put to exile.

Athanasius contra mundum, "Athanasius against the world." We are proud that our own country has more than once stood against the world. Athanasius did the same. He stood for the Trinitarian doctrine, "whole and undefiled," when it looked as if all the civilised world was slipping back from Christianity into the religion of Arius
C S Lewis

If you hear David wood say that Trinitarians were the majority Christians since Jesus' death until now, you should correct him.

Anonymous said...

Hi - I am really glad to discover this. cool job!

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

We have established that it was / is the apartheid regime of israel , the source of this trouble in that region starting from the land grab back in 1916. That regime is governed by zionist jews with unilateral support from zionist christians.

My question again. What is the justification of your 150% unilateral support for the apartheid regime of Israel? What would your supposed god in biblical jesus think of you? If you ask me , your supposedly god will be cursing you till end of days as the zionist christians / jews goes against each and every teaching of his.

Israel didn't leave southern lebanon / gaza in peace. They left it in pieces.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

The whole of jerusalem to believe in biblical jesus being god as a condition of his second coming in the same generation?

Come on guy , do you really believe in this argument of yours? There is no explicit statement in luk13:34-35 that the whole of jerusalem have to believe such.

How do you explain that biblical jesus , supposedly god , goofed up so badly in predicting end of days to be in the same generation?

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

Per your 'historical method of embarrassment' , if the people at that time did not believe biblical jesus a prophet , what makes you think they would regard him being god?

Biblical peter believed biblical jesus , man sent by god which makes biblical jesus a prophet in biblical peter's eyes. acts2:22 '..Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know..'.

To you christians , biblical jesus was / is either god or lunatic or liar. What about him being a prophet of god?

Where does that leave Islam / Quran? The truth .... Prophet Isa(as) was / is a messenger of Allah. Similar to what biblical jesus disciples thought of him.

sam shamoun suporter said...

Starting with Arabfest 2011 (that's tomorrow!) David will take over sole leadership of Acts 17. I have created a new ministry called Creed 2:6 Ministries. In accordance with the aims of the new ministry, I will not be at Arabfest this year

sam shamoun suporter said...

Will any of you meat Sam in Dearbon arabfest 2011 at the booth? If you do we will give you $10000.I have today gave a gift $75 to Sam. I donnot give Nabeel money because he has a good money job.

1MoreMuslim said...

Sam Supporter
Give me just flight ticket and I ll be there. your 10000$ is a lie , and you know it.

minoria said...

Hello Sam again:

Luke 13 has Jesus saying "Jerusalem,Jerusalem".It is understood he is talking about the inhabitants of the entire city.

That was his condition for the second coming.They did NOT accept him for 40 years or 1 Biblical generation from 30-70 AD.

If he had come back then he would have contradicted himself.

As I said before it is a PARALLEL prophecy.Like ISAIAH 7 where it is PARALLEL,it talks of a child born in Isaiah's time and also of the Messiah.

minoria said...

ABOUT JUDAISM

Judaism accepts that FALSE prophets can do REAL MIRACLES.

The historical Jesus,based on the evidence,was rejected not for doing what was a miracle or supposed miracle but for caliming Deity.

THE PRIESTS AND THE RESURRECTION

Notice in MATT the Jewish priests hear about the resurrection.

They bribe the soldiers to say the disciples stole the body.

For them,knowing the religious Jewish mentality,the resurrection was a TRICK of the DEVIL.

If TODAY a man said he was God and later died and resurrected the ORTHODOX JEWS would say that IN ITSELF is not enough proof for them...it could be a TRICK of SATAN.

minoria said...

EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE

Like the claim of the resurrection.GARY HABERMAS spent 10 years getting 100 certified medical reports by doctors about VERIFIABLE after death experiences.

HOW TO EXPLAIN IT

1.People say they saw a light,saw God,or went to hell,saw dead relatives,a tunnel,felt peace.That can NOT be VERIFIED,Habermas rejected it.

2.People say their spirit came out of their body and they say a friend or relative near their body and the person said X thing.

It was VERIFIED and found out it was NOT TRUE.The brain had played a TRICK.The friend was never in the hospital and never said X thing.

3.People say they got of their body saw X event outside the hospital with X details,etc.It was verified and found to be true,there was no way an UNCONSCIOUS person could have known.

minoria said...

CONCLUSION

That it can be said their is a self,or conscniousness or life existence SEPARATED from the body.

It does not prove which religion is true,or if the soul is immortal.

SO?

Since that is so then the idea of a body being dead for 3 days and then it being reunited with its life-spirit and coming back to life is not so extraordinary,the extraordinary claim only requires ORDINARY evidence.

minoria said...

RICHARD SWINBURN

He is an English Christian philospher who used BAYES' THEOREM for calculating probabilities,to see what chance there was Jesus rose from the dead.It is in the book “The Resurrection of God Incarnate”in 2003.

HE WAS VERY PRUDENT

First,the 4 gospel accounts constituted ONLY 5% of the evidence.

1.He put the probability of the EXISTENCE of GOD=50%.

2.If God exists then the probability he became incarnate=50%.

3.Probability the 4 gospels would report the life and resurrection of Jesus accurately=10%.

4.And a 1 in 1000 the probability we would have all this evidence if it was NOT true.

So in spite of all that he got:the probability that God resurrected Jesus from the dead=97%.

minoria said...

Hello Sam,
My belief is based not just on an isnad or no isnad it is based on extra evidence which I have been presenting you.All of it confirms the Christian position.

YOU SAID

"Biblical peter believed biblical jesus , man sent by god which makes biblical jesus a prophet in biblical peter's eyes. acts2:22 '..Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know..'."

I answered that question in avraidire.

ACTS 2:38 a few verses later PETER says to be BAPTIZED for YOU SINS in the NAME of JESUS

SO?

In JUDAISM BAPTISM was for the PARDON of your SINS and it was ONLY in the NAME of GOD.

NEVER in the NAME of Abraham,Moses,Solomon,David.That would saying they were God.

minoria said...

Here are all the NT verses where people are told to be BAPTIZED in the NAME of Jesus(God).And also the verses where they are told to PARDON SINS in the NAME of JESUS(God)

http://www.avraidire.com/2011/01/reponse-a-un-argument-musulman-contre-la-divinite-de-jesus-3/

minoria said...

ABOUT ISRAEL AGAIN

A bit of history,yes there was the Balfour 1917 declaration to make a Jewish country.Then the English regreted it.

The Jews BOUGHT the land they settled in at SUPER-EXPENSIVE prices.Very bad land really,not worth it but they were dreamers.

In 1880 there only 20,000 Jews in Palestine.Some 20,000 emigrated from Europe so in 1917 there were 40,000.By 1923 more came and there were 90,000 in all.From 1924-29 80,000 came,from 1929-39 250,000,some 60,000 in 1936 from Germany,fleeing the Nazis.

From 1945-48 100,000 HOLOCAUST survivors.

So in 1948 there were 600,000 Jews of which 450,000 were foreigners.

Now Muslims always DEMONIZE those settlers,a great proportion of who came not because they wanted to but because they had not other choice.

As you can see practically all the 600,000 Jews were Europeans or the direct descendants of European Jews,secular Jews in fact,educated people,modern.They were not going to start massacring Muslims for no reason like the HINDUS did in India.

There Hindus heard hundreds of Hindus had been killed 1,000 miles away and they started to kill their Muslim neighbors and vice versa.

MY POINT

A compromise could have been reached,so Muslims and Jews could have lived in a federal system,with checks and balances,etc,but the Muslim leadership was against treating Jews as equal citizens.

PROOF

From 1948-1967

Some 850,000 Jews,in most cases,though not all(the csae of the 250,000 Jews of Morocco is an exception)were forced out of Muslim lands only for being Jews,though they had nothing to do with Israel beating the Muslims in 1948.

They left with nothing but their clothes,losing everything.The Muslims acted towards them like the HINDUS acted towards the Muslims in India in 1947.

sam1528 said...

minoria,

'Jeruslem - jerusalem' highly likely means that biblical jesus was imploring to the people of jerusalem , meaning he was hoping some would heed his call. Biblical history has shown some will believe and others won't. Its no different in luk13:35.

Highly likely there will be some in jerusalem who would have accepted the teachings of the apostles of biblical jesus. Therefore the fullfillment of your supposedly 'condition of biblical jesus second coming'.

The fact that biblical jesus goofed up pretty badly in his prediction of the end of days to occur in the same generation (mark 13) is proof that he was / is not god. He was / is human after all.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

Bzzzzt!! Wrong!! Ability to perform miracles can only be done by god's chosen few - Allah messengers. A good example is the miracle performed by Prophet Musa(as) against magic by the shamans / magicians of the pharaoh.

I believe you have misunderstood the resurrection. Biblical jesus was not responsible for his resurrection. It was god (or 'the father), acts2:32 , acts13:30. Biblical jesus was supposedly dead. Why do you attribute the resurrection of biblical jesus as a miracle performed by himself?

We are in agreement , it was god that resurrected biblical jesus. From you '..So in spite of all that he got:the probability that God resurrected Jesus from the dead=97%..'

Who is god in the bible (NT)? Its the father :

******
mat10:29 '..Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care..'
luk12:6 '..Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God..'

mat12:50 '..For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother..'
mark3:35 '..Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother..'
******

Matthew substituted the title of 'father' in place of 'god'. If matthew was right in doing so then the 'father' alone is god.

We are making progress .... aren't we?

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

You side stepped the question.

I repeat the question. Why are you committing your faith in a set of books with no 'isnads' / unknown authors / author who have never met and talked to biblical jesus?

I am very interested to know of your reason. I believe a lot of us are interested to know of your reason.

The 'extra evidence' you presented , all came from the the set of books as mentioned above. It doesn't count.

Baptism? 1pet3:21 '..this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God..'. Washing with water does not save you. Its the appeal to god for a good conscience.

You only assume baptising in the name of biblical jesus ... means biblical jesus is god. Bad assumption.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

Of course the british regretted the balfour agreement. They goofed up big time. With the creation of israel , the british lost out big - the mineral wealth of the dead sea.

The point here is that israel was created with blood of the palestinians be it muslims / christians.

The early zionist jews didn't pay a single red cent for their houses. It was given to them after the rightful owners were kicked out.

It wasn't only the muslims who retaliated. The christians had a hand. The first few suicide bombers were christians.

You in your 150% unilateral support for zionist Israel have christian blood in your hands. I won't mention muslim blood as you probably don't give a hoot.

The educated zionist brought the genocide level to an all time high. They now have the intelligence to devise wholesale genocide of the palestinians.

The question still remain. What is the justification of your 150% unilateral support for the apartheid regime of Israel? What would your supposed god in biblical jesus think of you?

What compromise are you talking about? Its like you forcefully taking over someone's property (for free with violence) and then turn around saying that you are willing to compromise by confiscating 9/10 of property and the other 1/10 to be shared by the people whose properties have been taken over by you and your ilk.

You are just rehashing already refuted arguments , ie. airlifting of african jews etc.

minoria said...

Hello Sam,

In Luke 13 Jesus talks of Jerusalem's house being laid waste(Temple).In the OT God let the Temple be destroyed the FIRST TIME because the MAJORITY of the people of Jerusalem did not turn to him.

THE KORAN ABOUT THIS

Sura 17:4-7 says it also:

" We addressed the Children of Israel in the scripture(Bible): "You will commit gross evil on earth, twice. You are destined to fall into great heights of arrogance.

[17:5] "When the first time comes to pass, we will send against you servants of ours who possess great might, and they will invade your homes. This is a prophecy that must come to pass.

[17:6] "Afterwards, we will give you a turn over them, and will supply you with a lot of wealth and children; we will give you the upper hand.

[17:7] "If you work righteousness, you work righteousness for your own good, but if you commit evil you do so to your own detriment.

Thus, when the second time comes to pass, they will defeat you and enter the Temple, just as they did the first time. They will wipe out all the gains you had accomplished."

minoria said...

ABOUT MIRACLES

I stated the JUDAIC position,which is the Christian one also.The Devil can do REAL miracles.Revelation talks of a FALSE prophet who does real miracles for the Antichrist.

ABOUT GOD

We have there is ONE GOD but at the SAME TIME:

God the Father=God

God the Son=God

God the Holy Spirit=God

They are all God because they all have the same essence/nature of God.

minoria said...

You mentioned that the word God is changed to Father by MATT in:

mark3:35/Matt 12:50
Luke 12:6/Matt 10:29

As I said before also Matt changes Kingdom of God to Kingdom of Heaven.

And Mark's "I am" by Jesus at the trial to "You said it".(He knew it mean Jesus was claiming to be God)

All those different passages you mention are explained by the TRINITY.Read,using Google Translate,it has about for example the TRIPLE POINT of SUBSTANCES which is the scientifc equivalent of the Trinity:

http://www.avraidire.com/2011/05/la-trinite-expliquee-par-la-mathematiquela-chimiepar-jesus-dans-une-vision-et-par-le-triangle/

minoria said...

ABOUT ISRAEL AGAIN

I think you have in mind the 700,000 Arabs who left in 1948.Benny Morris,the Israeli historian,thinks 200,000-300,000 left due to following orders from the Arab military that they shoudl get out for a day or a few days to let the Arab armies free passage and not worry about killing Arabs by mistake.

NOBODY expected the Jews to win the war,they had a far smaller army,not enough men.But as many times in history(like in the case of Alexander the Great or Hernan Cortes in Mexico)it is QUALITY of strategy and tactics and NOT QUANTITY that counts.

minoria said...

The rest left because they thought the Jews were going to massacre them.Some 150,000 Arabs (and 75% of all the Christians) STAYED.

There had been several massacres of Jews during the years before 1948.

The Irgun,a Jewish terrorist group killed 100 Arabs in Deir Yassin in April 9,1948.It was widely condemned by all Jewish groups.

On May 13,1948 one day before the Declaration of Israeli Independence Arab soldiers killed more than 100 Jewish combatants,after they had surrendered and stopped fighting.

As Benny Morris has noted,the Arab archives regarding the war(though not the Israeli ones) are still closed.

I think they are closed to historians,all historians,because there was a plan to carry out massacres of the Jews.

minoria said...

You said:

"You only assume baptising in the name of biblical jesus ... means biblical jesus is god. Bad assumption."

In Judaism you never baptize in the name of any man for the pardon of sins toward God because it elevates the man to God's position.

It is not an assumption.Baptism was a PUBLIC CEREMONY where you showed all you repented of your sins.

You could do it privately with no water,just you and God, but there were those who wanted the whole world to know.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Snow,
Stop spreading false rumors.
Read below...

Nabeel wrote "I would like to reiterate that David and I both see this as the best strategic course of action for OUR ministry. THERE IS NO DIVISION between us, and Creed 2:6 is affiliated with Acts 17. I will continue to blog on AnsweringMuslims.com on occasion, and David and I will continue to minister together as opportunities arise."

Please stop with your lies....

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

You not only side stepped the question but you ignored it altogether.

My question again. Why are you committing your faith in a collection of books (NT) that lacks authentication of its narrated events? Is it blind faith?

There is no issue whether its majority or minority (inhabitants of jerusalem) who disbelived. The point is that in luk13:34-35 , biblical jesus was imploring to the inhabitants of jerusalem. Some will believe and others will not.

This fullfilled your supposed condition of his second coming (thus end of days) which biblical jesus himself predicted to occur in the same generation. The prediction was of course bogus.

Quran17:4-7 is Allah informing us of the stubbornness of the israelites and how they were punished despite the favours granted on them. Nothing about the end of days in the same generation of Prophet Isa(as).

By the way , the scripture for the children of israel is the tawrat not bible.

The devil can do miracles? Name one miracle the devil performed. Only messengers of Allah have the ability to perform miracles by Allah permission / assistance.

I will substitute 'god' with 'fully god' to amplify the impact of my argument against the trinity.
'..We have there is ONE FULLY GOD but at the SAME TIME:
God the Father = Fully God
God the Son = Fully God
God the Holy Spirit = Fully God..'

Can you explain how can 3 'fully gods' suddenly become 1 'fully god'.

Anonymous said...

Message from Creed 2 6 ministries Nabeel Qureshi. Dont delete.

Starting with Arabfest 2011 (that's tomorrow!) David will take over sole leadership of Acts 17. I have created a new ministry called Creed 2:6 Ministries. In accordance with the aims of the new ministry, I will not be at Arabfest this year.

I would like to reiterate that David and I both see this as the best strategic course of action for our ministry. There is no division between us, and Creed 2:6 is affiliated with Acts 17. I will continue to blog on AnsweringMuslims.com on occasion, and David and I will continue to minister together as opportunities arise.

Your support has been very important to us over these years, and I would appreciate your support of Creed 2:6 ministries as it gets off the ground. Please visit the website, Creed26.com, and follow our ministry via YouTube, Facebook, Blogger, and Twitter. I look forward to seeing some of you on these sites in the near future! Below are some videos to get you started :-)

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

You agree then in the NT , only the father is referred to being god , evidence from mark3:35 / mat12:50 and luk12:6 / mat10:29.

Kingdom of heaven is also a kingdom of god. In context it does not mean heaven = god. You should know better .... your own scripture. I am just a tourist going thru the bible.

The question in mark14 is about biblical jesus being the messiah , not god. 'son of god / blessed one' have several meanings but in context of the question , is certainly not god. It looks more like the priests had already made up their mind to get rid of biblical jesus one way or another ... they were just looking for an excuse.

Baptising in the name of biblical jesus certainly does not make him god. rom6:3-4 makes it plain that its just identifying with his death and him being resurrected by god (the father).
rom6:3 '..don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?..'
rom6:4 '..We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life..'

Its your assumption , baptising in biblical jesus name .... he is god. Of course in judaism , their baptism never mention the name of biblical jesus .... they never recognise him being a prophet , let alone god.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

The problem you have in your defense of the apartheid regime of israel is that you stubbornly try to point out to the reprisals of the palestinians to try to 'even out' the atrocities committed by the zionist jews with unilateral support of the zionist christians.

However you refuse to admit , the zionist jews / christians were / are the source of the problem starting in 1916.

You are just addressing the symptom not the root cause. Why do you continuously and stubbornly address only the symptom but not the root cause? Are you afraid to face your guilt being a christian as it was the christians who gassed the jews in WW2? Are you afraid to face your guilt of not wanting to be responsible for the actions of your christian brothers (gassing the jews) that you are in big relief that the israeli problem has been pushed to the ME , a predominantly muslim part of the world? The oppressed european jews were shipped there and they in turn oppressed the palestinians (muslims and christians) with full support of zionist christians.

Looks like you cannot face yourself. My question still stand. What is the justification of your 150% support of the apartheid regime of israel? What would your supposed god in biblical jesus think of you? If you ask me , your supposed god in biblical jesus has already prepared the following answer per mat7:23 '..I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers..'

minoria said...

GOING BACK TO ISRAEL

As I said before the lands of the settlers were bought from the rich landowners.

After 700,000 Arabs left that land was taken over but there was no expropriation before that.

ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST

You say it was Christians who killed the Jews?

I know Nazism created what is called POSITIVE CHRISTIANITY.It said Jesus was NOT Jewish but an ARYAN(Germanic man).

The KKK ALSO says Jesus was NOT Jewish.Jesus himself said not all who say they are with him(Christian) are really Christian.The minimum expected by Jesus is the Golden Rule,his core ethical teaching.

Read more details of those and other groups here,using GOOGLE TRANSLATE:

http://www.avraidire.com/2011/01/est-ce-correct-dire-que-x-groupe-terroriste-est-chretien/

minoria said...

ABOUT THE SECOND COMING

The OT talks of God appearing to save the Jews in Jerusalem from a vast army in Zechariah.

Zechariah 12:10 says "you will see me who you have pierced"to the people of Jerusalem.

Later in Zech 14:1-4 talks of Jersulem being partially captured.

LUKE 13 as I said has about Jerusalem seeing Jesus again with a condition.

Zech 12:10 coincides with the SECOND coming

THEN

ZECH 14:1-4 does also:

"I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped.

Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

3 Then the YAHWEH will go out and fight against those nations,

as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet (Note:the feet of God) will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west,

minoria said...

It seems to refer to the physical feet of Jesus.

ABOUT ZIONISM

As I said before the Israeli government is secular.

HERZL,the founder of Zionism,was an ATHEIST,of that there is no doubt.

BEN-GURION,its first Prime Minister from 1948-1954 and then from 1955-1963) was also an ATHEIST.

GOLDA MEIR,Prime Minister from 1969-1974 was asked if she believed in God and said:"I believe in the Jewish people and they believe in God."

minoria said...

EZEKIEL 38 AND GOG

ZECH tells us the Jews are in POSSESSION of JERUSALEM.

That only happened in 1948 plus all the city in 1967.

In Ezek 38 it talks of the Jews living in Palestine again,having come FROM MANY NATIONS.

EZEK 38:8

"In future years you(Gog) will invade a land that has recovered from war

, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate.

They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

ZECH 38:12-14

"12 I will plunder and loot and turn my hand against the resettled ruins and the people gathered from the nations....., 14 "Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: In that day, when my people Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it?"

MY PEOPLE ISRAEL

It is that expression that tells us the people "from the nations" refers to JEWS

minoria said...

A BIT MORE ON THE 700,000 REFUGEES

If the Muslims had,after the war,agreed to peace in the NEXT FEW YEARS,then I think there is a good chance the secular Israeli government would have accepted their coming back(as a price for peace).

But to accept 700,000 people back who rejected the new state would have been a stupidity.

minoria said...

Hello,
I just have to add a bit more about EZEKIEL 38 to show it can ONLY refer to TODAY.

THE BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY

Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 BC,the Jews were taken to ONE CITY,that of BABYLON.

SO?

In 537 BC they were allowed to return.There were 250,000 Jews in ONE CITY,Babylon.50,000 returned.

EZEK 38 says "from among the nations"(plural) 3X.

It can NOT mean the Babylonian captivity.

minoria said...

MESSIAH COMING

When the Messiah comes he brings world peace.In Ezek 38 it can NOT mean the Jews were gathered by the Messiah into Israel.

Otherwise there would be NO WAR,yet there is the Gog and Magog war.

It has to refer to Jews from many nations living in Israel,apparently as an independent nation BEFORE the Messiah came.

Many say God will it that way.I really dont know.Many times the Bible is DESCRIPTIVE not PRESCRIPTIVE.So it could just be that it is simply stating the creation of the state of Israel but neither approving nor condemning.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

Whaaaat?? According to you the zionist jewish settlers purchased the properties from the palestinians? Gee whizzz ... talk about delusion.

The following is the interview of miko peled , an israeli , author of the book 'the general son'. First hand information that the palestinians were actually kicked out , their properties confiscated and given to the zionist jews.
miko peled

TQ for admitting that theodore hezl , ben gurion , golda meir were atheist. I was wnodering when you would come around to that. Can you explain just how atheist come to proclaim that israel is god given land to israelites? This has been the rallying cry of israel and of course zionist jews / christians. In fact how do zionist christians regard themselves christians as zionism is an ideology established by an atheist.

The majority of germans christians or muslims? As far as history goes , it was the germans who gassed the jews in WW2.

Let me get this straight. You in your 150% unilateral support of the apartheid regime of israel is based on the supposed bibilical prophercy that once the jews are settled in israel , biblical jesus will be back in his second coming. Is this another prediction? The first one , biblical jesus second coming in the same generation has been proven to be bogus.

In essence you are in support of israel to facilitate the second coming of your supposedly god in biblical jesus who will in turn kill all the jews. Talk about being michiavellian.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

You still have not answered my question.

Why are you committing your faith in a collection of books (NT) that lacks authentication of its narrated events? Is it blind faith?

minoria said...

Hello Sam,
You have misunderstood me.When I said the lands were bought I was always referring to the pre-1948 situation.It is a historical fact.

I read several times but had to verify using scholars since the accusation was serious but Matthias Kuntzel for example,a real scholar,asserts the first terrorist action in Palestine,with many wounded and several dead,was:

In 1920 in Jerusalem,and it was due to Al-Husseini,who later became the highest religious leader and the highest political leader in Palestine.

minoria said...

LATER MORE TERRORISM BY AL-HUSSEINI

Then in 1929 he began the first all-out pogrom of Jews,killing like 60 civilians in Hebron,130 Jews in all,plus 116 Arabs were killed by the British to stop the terrorism.

What a rotten example.

minoria said...

AFTER THE WAR

The Grand Mufti escaped to EGYPT where he was given asylum.He was protected by WHO?By AL-BANNA,the founder of the MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD.

Al-Banna knew the Mufti had killed Jews and participated in the Holocaust.

AL-HUSSEINI AND THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD

He was made the PRESIDENT of the MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD in PALESTINE,and held other positions in other organiztions till retired.

What an example by Al-Banna,a "holy man" of Islam.

minoria said...

Now regarding why I believe in Jesus as God,one reason is the passages in the OT that says the Messiah would be Yhaweh,his name would be Yehsua,Isaiah 53,Zechariah 12,etc.

All that coincides with what is in the NT.

Plus the info in Polycarp,Clement,etc,it conforms with the OT passages.

minoria said...

You said:

"In essence you are in support of israel to facilitate the second coming of your supposedly god in biblical jesus who will in turn kill all the jews. Talk about being michiavellian."

Killing all the Jews?Paul says in Romans that "all Israel will be saved".

So your idea is false.They are still and always will be the Chosen People.

In Ezekiel 38 God saves the Jews from several countries:Russia,Iran and other countries that have been identified as being Muslim.

The real danger to the Jews comes the fanatical Muslim countries that are full of Judeophobia.
It is the spirit of the grand Mufti again.

minoria said...

ABOUT EZEKIEL 38 AGAIN

It says PERSIA and PUT(Libya),Biblical Ethiopia(which in that time referred to Cush,in what is now Sudan),Gomer may be Germany but a better alternative is a region of Turkey and Beth Togarmah(TURKEY,and it now has an ISLAMIST government,anti-Israel).

Except for Russia the other countries are MUSLIM.

Muslim countries attacking Israel and God destroying the army.That means,for a Jew or Christian,that God can not be Allah.Allah would NOT go against MUSLIM countries attacking ISRAEL.

There you have it Sam,the OT is part of our Bible,so a Christian certainly does not believe God(Jesus) is going to kill all the Jews.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

Isn't 1916 pre 1948? The land grab already occurred in 1916 (pre1948). What is difference? The land grab is still occurring at this moment.

'..The Israeli army has ordered the seizure of Palestinian land surrounding four West Bank villages apparently in order to hugely expand settlements around Jerusalem..'
land grab by israel

You cite al husseini? Again and again you are just bringing up the symptom not the root cause. His action was in retaliation to the balfour agreement in 1916. You have problems differentiating 'symptom' and 'root cause'? Nobody on this planet keeps quiet when oppressed.

Are you now telling me biblically at the 'end of days' the jews with the christians will be saved? You don't believe it ... do you? How can the jews , who reject biblical jesus be saved according to christian theology?

The muslims are pissed off with israel because of their apartheid policy. Rightfully so. Any decent person , whatever religion ought to be pissed with the racist zionists (jews / christians).

There are jews in Iran. A fatwa was decreed by Imam Kohmeini upon his return that the jews are to be protected. So much so for the so called 'judeophobia'.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

God protecting Israel? Israel , a zionist state , has been established by atheists (as pointed out by you). These people don't believe in god.

Its only christian apologist like you will try to justify the existence of israel as god's will. This is done as christians believe israel plays a major role in the second coming of biblical jesus. That is about it.

Take the US out of the support equation , israel will implode. No need for any attacks by any country. Why don't you try to find out the financial support the US provides israel.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

Can you show me where in isa53 , zech12 that states biblical jesus was / is god?

You have not answered my question. I repeat my question :
Why are you committing your faith in a collection of books (NT) that lacks authentication of its narrated events? Is it blind faith?

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minoria said...

Hello Sam,
Isaiah 53 talks of an innocent man dying for the sins of others,Zechariah 12 talks of the people of Jerusalem having pierced God,where it says the Messiah is Yhaweh is in Jeremiah

http://www.avraidire.com/2010/04/the-ot-says-the-messiah-will-be-yahweh/

THEN YAHWEH SEND YAHWEH TO JERSULEM

http://www.avraidire.com/2010/06/zechariah-says-yahweh-will-send-yahwehthe-messiah-to-jerusalem/

minoria said...

CHRISTIANS CAN NOT BE ACCUSED OF INVENTING THOSE PROPHECIES

The Jews do not believe the Messiah was Yahweh,that he was crucified for the sins of others,that his name was Yeshua.Though the OT says the Messiah's name would be Yeshua:

http://www.avraidire.com/2010/04/the-old-testament-says-the-messiahs-name-is-yeshua-jesus/

MY POINT

The fact those prophecies are INDEPENDENTLY attested is one proof Christianity is true.

minoria said...

ABOUT ISRAEL AGAIN

The British made an investigation in 1936 or 1947,I dont remember the exact date,as to whether Jews had stolen lands from Arabs and they found the Muslim claim was false,it had always been bought.

ZIONISM

It did NOT begin in 1916.It began in 1897 with HERZL,They began buying and buying land for agricultural settlements.It was always bought.

minoria said...

ABOUT AL-HUSSEINI

You said:

"You cite al husseini? Again and again you are just bringing up the symptom not the root cause. His action was in retaliation to the balfour agreement in 1916. You have problems differentiating 'symptom' and 'root cause'? Nobody on this planet keeps quiet when oppressed."

You do not know his role.There were Arabs who were moderate and wanted to work out a PEACEFUL SOLUTION with the JEWS.
Those leaders were against Jewish rule but they wanted to negociate,do it in a civilized way.

Al-Husseini eliminated the moderate element,it is a historical fact,he was a religious fanatic.He was ALSO a PROBLEM

minoria said...

ABOUT THE JEWS BEING SAVED

You said:

"Are you now telling me biblically at the 'end of days' the jews with the christians will be saved? You don't believe it ... do you? How can the jews , who reject biblical jesus be saved according to christian theology?"

ROMANS 11:25-26 has Paul saying the Jews are semi-hardened toward the truth but when a certain number of non-Jews believe then "all Israel will be saved".

It means they will accept Jesus as Messiah,then he will come back.In fact as more become Christian then more,for the first time in history,many Jews are accepting Jesus.
In 1970 there were only some 2,000 who were believers,today it is about 250,000.

minoria said...

YOU BROUGHT UP A GOOD POINT

"God protecting Israel? Israel , a zionist state , has been established by atheists (as pointed out by you). These people don't believe in god.

Its only christian apologist like you will try to justify the existence of israel as god's will. This is done as christians believe israel plays a major role in the second coming of biblical jesus. That is about it."

WHY WOULD MIRACULOUSLY INTERVENE?

If you have read EZEKIEL 38 you will the armies from several countries are destroyed MIRACULOUSLY

minoria said...

EZEK 38:8 says it is in "the latter days" which may or may not mean the last days.

WORLD WAR II

Notice God did NOT intervene MIRACULOUSLY to save the Jews in WW II.Maybe he did it indirectly through the ALLIES,with their armies but nobody can say there was a real MIRACLE involved.

AN ORDINARY WAR

For anybody in the year 700 or 1300 or 1900 reading EZEK 38 the propehcy would see ABSURD.

WHY would so MANY NATIONS go to war against a little country?

For its overwhelming economic resources?For its geographical importance that is too vital?Just to conquer a little bit of territory?

A bit of that but you ntice almost all the nations mentioned are Muslim.The factor is Judeophobia,an irrational fear of the Jews.

minoria said...

A STATE FOUNDED BY ATHEISTS

It is true.That destroys the myth that the state of Israel was founded because Zionism says the land was given to the Jews by God

80% OF ISRAELI JEWS ARE SECULAR

The vsat majority of the 13 million Jews are secular,many are atheists.

The reason given in EZEK 38 for a MIRACULOUS intervention is to show the Jews and the whole world that God is God,he exists.

AN ORDINARY WAR AGAIN

If the Gog war were just an ordinary war with a few battles,some dead soldiers and then a negociated peace,I see little reason for God to intevene.

But he would INTERVENE if it were a war to ANNIHILATE MILLIONS of Jews.

And the Judeophobia one sees from alot of Muslims in the Middle East is Hitler-like.

minoria said...

THE RESULT OF THE GOG WAR

It would be to make alot of secular Jews get right with God.It does NOT mean they woudl accept Jesus as Messiah.

But that would PREPARE the way for the people of Jerusalem finally accepting Jesus as Messiah as appears in Zech 12:10.

minoria said...

ANOTHER RESULT OF THE GOG WAR

It would make many non-Jews believe in Jesus.Honestly,how many even know of EZEK 38?

And if they did they would be indifferent,but its coming true would make them think,maybe.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

You are interpolating that the combination of isa53 and zech12 means the prophecy of biblical jesus. I have this problem with your justification. If the prophecy stated man , then it is not god. Zech12 , mention of jerusalem not biblical jesus. You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

You are now trying to retrofit joshua to mean yeshua. It doesn't work. Does it also mean that it was biblical jesus who took over from biblical moses upon his death?

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

The british would do anything to exonerate themselves from the mess they created.

The balfour declaration came after the sykes-picot agreement with the french. The zionists wanted palestine to establish a purely jewish state aka racist state. The palestinians would not give up their land therefore the decision was to use force on the palestinians , alternatively known as genocide.

Why should al husseini keep quiet when all this was happening around him? Nobody wanted any peaceful negotiation.

You are just addressing the symptom not the root cause. Your argument is just trying to 'even out' the issues. Its about time you be honest with yourself and question yourself what would your god in biblical jesus think of you with your 150% unilateral support of a racist / secular regime.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

Throughout history , the muslims have never destroyed jerusalem. This place has been the focal point of a lot of messengers of Allah. It was also our 'qiblah' before mekkah.

The ones who were hell bent in taking jerusalem at all cost were / are the christians. If you are bringing up exe38 as a prophecy , it addresses the christians not muslims.

Its an article of faith for us muslims to accept Prophet Isa(as) being a messenger of Allah. All messengers are messiahs for their people. Therefore exe38 has got nothing to do with christians as you accept biblical jesus being god not messiah.

Its only your myopic view that you see muslims in ME being 'hitler like'. Throughout history , it was the christians who oppressed the jews as part of their triumphalism over the 'killers of biblical jesus'.

Muslims have no issue with judaism. It zionism that is the issue. Anybody with rational thinking will oppose zionism. The jews were living peacefully with the muslims until the zionist came along. Now we have zionist christians (like you) coming to the fore in your support of zionism. Another way of saying it - we now have atheist / racist christians coming to the fore. Hmmm , what would your god in bibical jesus think of you??

minoria said...

I see we agree that we disagree.Regarding world events I have come to expect the unexpected

EZEK 38 mentions Persia attacking Israel.I said it before,many times the Bible prophecies are descriptive,not prescriptive

However it came about,whether approved by God or not,EZEK 38 talks of a Jewish country that exists and whose Jews came from many nations(repeated 2X).We know it refers to Jews because 2X we have the phrase My People Israel.
Then it even says land of Israel meaning land of the Jews(verse 19 in Youngs Literal translation

minoria said...

Before 1979 nobody would have thought Persia would participate in a war against Israel,it was pro-Israel under the Shah

Then came the 1980-1988 war,but Iran won.

Iran has a Border with Turkey

Turkey is another of the mations identified in EZEK 38.Before 2003 it was ruled by the secularists

Then Erdogan came to power,he is still there,he is Prime Minister and leader of the Islamist party.

Turkey is no longer pro-Israel but anti-Israel.Ergodan has even said "Hamas is not a terrorist group"











Iran has a Border with Turkey

Before

minoria said...

ABOUT THE 600,000 JEWS IN 1948

450,000 were foreigners of which 100,000 were Holocaust survivors,another,60,000 were German Jews who had fled Nazi Germany in 1936 alone.

Many were there because of circumstances,in ordinary times they would never have left for Israel.

ABOUT CITIZENSHIP

In 1962 all the Jews of Algeria left,as well as almost 1 million people of European descent.

Most Jews went to France,but some to Israel.WHY GO TO FRANCE?

Because they had French citizenship.

But the 450,000 did not have French or American citizenship.Even if they wanted to go they could not leave.

Communist Take-over in Eastern Europe

By 1948 half of Germany,plus Poland,Hungary,Romania,etc were Communist.Private property had been abolished.

Few of the Jews originally from those nations wanted to return to a totalitarian,anti-human rights system

All in all,the Muslims showed little tact in dealing with non-Muslims so that even those who do not like to fight,decided to fight in 1948.

Three Wars

Whether purely human or not Israel won 3 wars it was supposed to love,in 1948,in 1967 and in 1973

The last one,the Yom Kippur war had been very well prepared by the Muslims,unlike the other 2.

It took the Israelis utterly by surprise,for 3 days the Israelis were losing everywhere,the defenses broke down,it seemed as if Tel-Aviv would soon fall.But however they did it,they won again.

So as I said,one learns to expect the unexpected and I do not see why the EZEK 38 prophecy will not turn out as stated.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

There is a difference between christians (like you aka zionist christians) and us muslims.

You in your support of israel stems from your biblical understanding that israel needs to be there for the second coming of your supposedy god in biblical jesus. Whatever happens after that - the end justify the means.

We muslims have a big issue with zionist but not judaism. The Quran have time and time again stated that the israelites were a race favoured by Allah but they lost their ways. Look at them now. Most are atheists and these are the hardcore zionists. The religious ones are the minority.

A cursory comparison immediately points to the fact that the muslims are the ones with the moral high ground not zionist christians. In the comfort of your own country , you cry foul when racism occurs. However its perfectly OK with you regarding the apartheid policy of zionist israel.

Extremely inconsistent yeah. You still have not answered my question. What would your god in biblical jesus think of you with your 150% support of a racist regime of israel? I am sure he will be very disappointed.

sam1528 said...

minoria ,

How many eons ago did persia invaded jerusalem? Zionist israel was established after WW2.

What makes you think when prime minister erdogan stated 'hamas is not a terrorist group' suddenly he became anti israel? That is an extremely shallow / myopic outlook. I believe it was the IDF who murdered the peace activist who was part of the humanitarian initiative to gaza. Who is the terrorist now? I can't see anybody with rational thinking would support the racist regime unless the person has a hidden agenda.

Like I said , take the US out of the equation , israel will implode. The 3 arab israel wars clearly shows the bias of the US. Without the support of the US , Israel would have lost. Note , its arab israel war ... a war based on nationalistic sentiments.

A very simple question. Why do you support the genocide of the palestinians by the israelis just for land grab? If you argue that I am anti semite , the plaestinians are people of semitic roots. Its bizarre that you are going round and round in circles but you have conveniently forgotten that the palestinians are also people of semitic roots.

Nabeel Qureshi said...

Hello - just found this website. I might have seen it before, but I don't recall.

Yahya snow and Refuting Acts 17, eh? Well, I must say that you boys confuse me. At times I think you are being honest, at other times you lambast me and accuse me of lying and deception when I'm being nothing but sincere, and it makes me think that there must be some projection on your part. Perhaps, if God wills, we will meet each other in the future and I will have a much better understanding of who you truly are.

I appreciate your running commentary on my work, though the best bit was certainly Zawadi's commentary. I'll take a deeper look at it now that I have some time.

The read through the blog was enlightening at times, funny at times, and a good experience all around. Cheers.

Anonymous said...

Nabeel,

Did you mean Yahya Snow's commentary rather than ZAWADI'S commentary?