Monday, 22 May 2017

Hamza Myatt and Lizzie Schofield on Violence in Bible - Unbelievable and Pfander Films Take Note

Hamza Myatt of EF Dawah helps to teach a Westernised Christian from Jay Smith's Pfander Centre about violence in the Bible.

Video also uploaded here

Secularised Christians like those at Pfander Films (Jay Smith, Beth Grove, Lizzie Schofield, Hatun Tash and Sarah Foster) are thought to believe in the 4th century doctrine of the Trinity but seemingly teach Jesus does not use violence and force but upon closer examination of their texts and their theology it's quite obvious the secularised Christians at Pfander are not presenting views which are consistent with Trinitarian exegesis of the Bible.

Before we have a look at some texts in the New Testament let's have a look at some texts in the Old testament. Trinitarian Christians believe Jesus (as the second person of their triune Godhead doctrine) ordered the killing and destruction of whole towns if some people amongst them called to the worship of other gods:

12“When you begin living in the towns the LORD your God is giving you, you may hear 13that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. 14In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, 15you must attack that town and completely destroyb all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. 16Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the open square and burn it. Burn the entire town as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. 17Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a large nation, just as he swore to your ancestors. [Deut 13]

Trinitarians also believe Jesus ordered the killing of apostates from one's own family if they began preaching the worship of other gods: 

6 “If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
[Deut 13]

Trinitarians also believe Jesus ordered women and children to be killed:

2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” [1 Samuel 15]

Jesus ordered the killing of Midianite men, women and boys through Moses according to Trinitarian thought:

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burnedall the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people.
17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. [Numbers 31]

Some Trinitarians believe the Angel of the Lord in the OldTestament is a christophany, thus they believe the angel was Jesus. Do these Trinitarians believe Jesus put to death 185,000 Assyrians?

That night the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning--there were all the dead bodies! [2 Kings 19:35]

I think that's enough to demonstrate the Westernised Trinitarian really isn't preaching actual Trinitarian beliefs. But what of the New Testament, does Jesus use force according to those texts?

13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. [Revelation 19]

Trinitarian Pastor Steven Anderson explains what is meant by treading on the winepress. He goes back to chapter 14:

19So the angel swung his sickle over the earth and loaded the grapes into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20The grapes were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress in a stream about 180 milesd long and as high as a horse’s bridle.

The pastor teaches Jesus is responsible for a judgement that brings forth a river of blood that stretches for about 200 miles and is as deep as a horse's bridle. The pastor's fellow Trinitarian in Phoenix, James White, openly admits Trinitarians believe freedom of religion will be ended when Jesus returns.

I'd be very interested in knowing if the people at the Pfander Centre for Apologetics are willing to discuss these issues and openly admit they believe Jesus uses violence according to the Trinitarian worldview. I suspect they will just remain silent on this as it affects the donations they get from other secularised Christians and I guess they feel it will impact their efforts to convert people to worship Jesus (a human being!) and believe in the Bible and the Trinity doctrine.

Look, if you're a Trinitarian please think about these points. At the end of the day it's important for you to know that Western secularism is not Christianity. Look into this, Islam and the Trinity doctrine for yourselves. Think about it. Pray about it

As for the Christians at Pfander Centre for Apologetics I'd really ask you to do the same. I'd especially ask Lizzie Schofield, Sarah Foster and Hatun Tash (the ones who may not have financial ties to that evangelical organisation) to just look around. You're all living in Britain, how many Christians do you really see around you. Be honest with yourselves. I'm hard pushed to find a Bible-believing Christian. Christianity is declining here and it's giving way to secularism (the Nones, those affiliated to no religion). Not to Islam. So this isn't an Islam vs Christianity thing. I've already written about how Jay Smith and other Christian polemicists against Islam are contributing to the apostasy of Christians. They are setting them up to stumble out of the Abrahamic tradition via the secular premises they build their arguments on. Please do read it and just ask yourself if you're contributing to this too. Don't you not think you will be responsible before God if you lead somebody to stumble into Atheism?

For any serious-minded Christians who have felt this post to be somewhat eye-opening please don't hesitate to contact me via email. Thanks.

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Do Jay Smith's Pfander Centre for Apologetics Really Preach Trinitarian Views on Jesus?

Synoptic Gospels and the Idea of a Pre-Existent Jesus?

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Paula Fredriksen: Paul was NOT a Trinitarian

Thoughts on Lizzie Schofield's blog on Pakistan's ban of Valentines Day

Blog: Aggressive Sid Cordle and Lizzie Schofield on Mary Worship and The Quran

Notes from Sean Finnegan's interview with Patrick Navas: Is the Trinity Biblical