Christian support for polygamy: Martin Luther and the Bible by Paul Williams
Martin Luther 1483 – 1546 was a German monk, Catholic priest, professor of theology and seminal figure of a reform movement in 16th century Christianity, subsequently known as the Protestant Reformation. He wrote,I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in such a matter.Martin Luther, De Wette, II, 459.
Luther was confronted with the question of whether or not the Landgrave Philip of Hesse, an important official of his day, might enter into a polygamous marriage. When pressed to render a judgement in the matter, Martin Luther (together with Philip Melancthon) concluded that monogamy was no necessary part of Christian revelation and that polygamy was a legitimate practice for a Christian (read the story in Owen Chadwick, The Reformation The Penguin History of the Church, pp. 71-72).
It is well know that many of the greatest figures of faith in the Scriptures, Abraham, Moses, Jacob, David, Solomon, had polygamous marriages and at no time did God rebuke them or prohibit them. Now one exception in the Bible is Paul’s command to overseers (also called ‘bishops’) and only overseers to be a husband of “but one wife” (1 Timothy 3:2). Yet the very fact that Paul gives this command to overseers alone suggests that more than one wife was permitted for others and Paul never mentions any demand for monogamy for the rank and files church members – even in polygamous Greek cultures like Corinth.
The Quran, as God’s final revelation to mankind is the only known world scripture to explicitly limit polygamy and place strict restrictions upon its practice:
..Marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with them, then only one..(Quran 4:3)
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Miracles performed by Prophet Muhammad (p):
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/did-prophet-muhammad-p-perform-miracles.html
Jesus taught people to do the Will of God (according to Mark 3:35) in order to become his brothers, mothers or sisters. A Muslim means one who submits to the Will of God. Do you want to become a brother of Jesus? If yes, become a Muslim. Now is the time. Learn about Islam: http://www.thedeenshow.com
Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk
26 comments:
"Many divorces occur still among the Turks. If a wife does not yield to the husband, nor act according to his whim and fancy, he forthwith drives her out of the house, and takes one, two, three, or four additional wives, and defends his action by appealing to Moses. They have taken out of Moses such things as please them and pander to their lust. In Turkey they are very cruel to women; any woman that will not submit is cast aside. They toy with their women like a dog with a rag. When they are weary of one woman, they quickly put her beneath the turf and take another. Moses has said nothing to justify this practise. My opinion is that there is no real married life among the Turks; theirs is a whorish life. It is a terrible tyranny, all the more to be regretted because God does not withhold the common blessing from their intercourse: children are procreated thereby, and yet the mother is sent away by the husband. For this reason there is no true matrimony among the Turks. In my opinion, all the Turks at the present time are bastards." - Martin Luther
Obviously Yahya and Paul Williams are not Luther scholars.
@anonymous
You decided to ignore the fact that the post is about Christianity's acceptance of polygamy. You opted to present a text indicating Luther was a bigot against Turks.
Clearly the anti-Ottoman propaganda was rife at the time of Luther. If your quote is accurate then it simply points to Luther being duped by such propaganda.
El HAWAMDIA, Egypt , Aug 5 2013 (IPS) - Each summer, wealthy male tourists from Gulf Arab states flock to Egypt to escape the oppressive heat of the Arabian Peninsula, taking residence at upscale hotels and rented flats in Cairo and Alexandria. Many come with their families and housekeeping staff, spending their days by the pool, shopping, and frequenting cafes and nightclubs. Others come for a more sinister purpose.
In El Hawamdia, a poor agricultural town 20 kilometres south of Cairo, they are easy to spot. Arab men in crisp white thawbs troll the town’s pot-holed, garbage-strewn streets in their luxury cars and SUVs. As they arrive, Egyptian fixers in flip flops run alongside their vehicles, offering short-term flats and what to them is the town’s most sought-after commodity – underage girls.
Each year, in El Hawamdia and other impoverished rural communities across Egypt, thousands of girls between the ages of 11 and 18 are sold by their parents to wealthy, much older Gulf Arab men under the pretext of marriage. The sham nuptials may last from a couple of hours to years, depending on the negotiated arrangement.
“It’s a form of child prostitution in the guise of marriage,” Azza El-Ashmawy, director of the Child Anti-Trafficking Unit at the National Council for Childhood and Motherhood (NCCM) tells IPS. “The man pays a sum of money and will stay with the girl for a few days or the summer, or will take her back to his country for domestic work or prostitution.”
The girl is returned to her family when the marriage ends, usually to be married off again.
“Some girls have been married 60 times by the time they turn 18,” says El-Ashmawy. “Most ‘marriages’ last for just a couple of days or weeks.”
The deals are hatched in El Hawamdia’s myriad “marriage broker” offices, identifiable by the conspicuous presence of air-conditioners in a ramshackle town with intermittent power.
The brokers, usually second-rate lawyers, also offer a delivery service. Village girls as young as 11 are brought to the Arab tourists’ hotel or rented flat for selection. Arab men travelling with their wives and children often arrange a separate flat for such purposes.
The temporary marriages offer a way to circumvent Islamic restrictions on pre-marital sex.
“Many hotels and landlords in Egypt will not rent a room to unmarried couples,” explains Mohamed Fahmy, a Cairo real estate agent. “A marriage certificate, even a flimsy one, allows visiting men to have sexual liaisons.”
Engaging in sexual relations with minors is illegal in Egypt. Brokers can help with that too, forging birth certificates or substituting the identity card of the girl’s older sister.
A one-day mut’a or “pleasure” marriage can be arranged for as little as 800 Egyptian pounds (115 dollars). The money is split between the broker and the girl’s parents. (Continue Reading.)
From Minoria:
1.First of all,as the rabbis state,Mosaic law is only,and only for the Jews.So polygamy in Mosaic Law is only explicitly authorized for the Jews.
2.In Judaism the non-Jews attain salvation,through other laws.They are the 7 Noahide laws:
a.The prohibition of Idolatry.
b.The prohibition of Murder.
c.The prohibition of Theft.
d.The prohibition of Sexual immorality.
e.The prohibition of Blasphemy.
f.The prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive.
g.The requirement of maintaining courts to provide legal recourse.
In none is their an explicit mention authorizing polygamy.
From Minoria:
There is also Acts 15:19 where James,the leader of the Jerusalem Church,half-brother of Jesus,says,in the Jerusalem Council,the position on non-Jews:
"“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them:
1.To abstain from food polluted by idols,
2.From sexual immorality,
3.From the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”"
In none is there an explicit authorization of polygamy.
From Minoria:
My correction,it is Acts 15:19-21
ABOUT HILLEL
He was the greatest Jewish leader of his time,and one of the most influential.He lived a generation before Jesus.
Then there were 2 Pharisaic schools,that of Hillel and that of Shammai(his contemporary).
Hillel was against polygamy,while Shammai was for it.
Hillel is famous for 2 sayings:
1.A non-Jew said to him:" "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying:
"That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow(Note:this is the Golden Rule), this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."
From Minoria:
The other famous Hillel saying is:
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
But if I am only for myself, who am I?
If not now, when?"
JESUS WAS ALSO AGAINST POLYGAMY
Matthew 19:8 shows Jesus was talking to Jews:
" Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you(Note:the Jews) to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."
In Matthew 19:9 he said:
" I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,
and marries another woman
commits adultery.”
THE LOGICAL DEDUCTION
1.A Jewish man divorces a woman.
2.But for God such a divorce is Not a real divorce,he is still Married.
3.So a Married Jewish man marries Another Woman(it is polygamy)
4.Yet Jesus calls it adultery.It would Not be Adultery if Jewish approved of polygamy for Jewish men.
From Minoria:
Again,my correction,it is "It would Not be Adultery if JESUS approved of polygamy for Jewish men."
Hi Minoria ,
Sam1528 here. How are you doing these days? Hope everything is ok with you.
I have a question with regards to polygny in the bible. Mat19:9 '..I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”..'.
Somehow or rather , if the man does not divorce the wife and marry another , it appears to be ok with the said verse. Polygny is actually not divorcing the current wife while marrying another. In addition there is no limit as to how many wives the man can marry per mat19:9.
What do you think of this issue in light of mat19:9?
Addition to my previous post :
How do you come to the 'logical deduction' that in mat19:8 in context means 'not actually divorcing the wife'?
The verse states of '..But it was not this way from the beginning..' meaning that there was / is actually no prohibition of divorce.
From Minoria:
As for how I am doing today I would say better,unless the events in the Middle East soon ruin the world economy,and they will sooner or later.
Even without that the US and European economies are on the verge of collapse,and a Mideast crisis that would affect the oil supply and prices would accelerate a breakdown similar to the 1929 crash that left the developed world as poor as Haiti.
That was why I decided to help out the founder of avraidire(in French) and antisharia with articles,to reach a few,before the economy collapses,and then no more articles.
I have some trouble understanding the ideas stated but here I think you will see my view clearer.
1.Jesus was referring to a real,actual,legal divorce,a Mosaic divorce.Like you have today,you get married,and then legally divorced.
2.But Jesus was against the Mosaic system regarding divorce.Except in one case.
3.So,as I understand it,he was saying even THAT legal divorce was,in God's eyes,not a real divorce.
4.So according to Jesus then the Jewish man was still actually married.
5.Mosaic law allows more than one wife,but Jesus was against it,but said it in an indirect way.
From Minoria:
About Hillel and his ban on polygamy
One could say how one of the greatest Jewish teachers of all time came to such a conclusion when Mosaic Law allows for polygamy.
I think he probably based it on a Mosaic law that says(it is for the Jewish king):
Deut. 17:14-17:
“I will set a king over me like all the nations that are around me,' “you shall surely set a king over you whom the LORD your God chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother.
But he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, for the LORD has said to you, 'You shall not return that way again.'
“Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.”
To multiply and multiply
It is 1X1=1,1X2=2,1X3=3
The king was the example for all to follow,to imitate,the law states the ideal is 1 wife for the king.
God tolerated polygamy but that law makes clear monogamy was what he really wanted.
From Minoria:
The Essenes were also against polygamy
From the article:
"Archaeology and History in the Dead Sea Scrolls: the New York University conference in memory of Yigael Yadin (ed. Lawrence H. Schiffman), JSOT Press, Sheffield 1990, p.13-24."
It is found in this website:
http://cojs.org/cojswiki/The_Qumran-Essene_Restraints_on_Marriage,_Joseph_Baumgarten.
It says:
"The author of the Temple Scroll was fully aware of the legality of polygamy and remarriage after divorce in the Torah. This can be inferred from the reference in 11QT 54.4 to the ‘vow of a widow or a divorced woman’ (Num. 30.10) and the beginning of 11QT 64 which, though only partially preserved, cites the provisions in Deut. 21.15 concerning a man who has two wives. Yet in elaborating the law of the king, the Temple Scroll provides that ‘he shall not take in addition to her [his first wife] another wife, for she alone shall be with him all the days of her life; and if she dies, he shall take for himself another from his father’s house’ (11QT 57.17–19). The only logical way to account for this discrepancy is to assume that the king as a role model for moral behavior was subject to supererogatory restrictions limiting him to one wife during her lifetime; divorcing her would not free him, as it would a commoner, to marry another. This two-tiered approach to halakhah is manifested elsewhere in the Temple Scroll in the sphere of ritual purity; here a distinction is made between ordinary men and those who aspire to a higher level of purity.7"
From Minoria:
To continue the article says:
"What we have noted is, of course, directly pertinent to the proper understanding of the marriage restrictions in the Damascus Document.
Here the ban of polygamy and by extension the prohibition of remarriage after divorce applicable to the king (nasi’) is held up as a model of the higher moral standard in marriage. According to this standard, marriage is an exclusive covenant between one man and one woman ‘in their lifetime’.
It is called the ‘foundation of creation’, derived from the words in Gen. 1.27, ‘male and female He created them’. The further consequence drawn in the Gospels that what God has joined together cannot by man be put asunder8 is not explicitly stated in the Damascus Document, but we may infer from the Temple Scroll that the king as well as any morally scrupulous adherent of the sect could not remarry while his first spouse was still living. Needless to say, this lends a dimension of fateful finality to the one and only choice of a partner in matrimony."
Then the article talks about Jesus
"It is worth noting in connection with this that the very similar views attributed to Jesus in the Gospels are followed by the inference of the disciples that ‘if such be the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry’ (Mt. 19.10).9 Prudence would dictate the avoidance of commitments which, once entered into, were incapable of being broken. Could it not well be that this consideration already led some Qumranites to weigh their desire for posterity against the fateful consequences of an inauspicious union?"
From Minoria:
There is something that is vital to know in Paul's statement in Colossians 3:1-13.
It is there that he says a bishop should only have one wife,and also that the deacon should only have one wife.
The letter was written for Greeks
The congregation was Greek,in a Greek city.And monogamy was the rule among the Greeks already for hundreds of years.
In other words,it was understood by the Greek Christians,because of their culture,that,of course,the monogamy of the bishop and deacon also applied to everybody else.
For the Greeks,pagan and Christian,polygamy was bad.
Hi Minoria ,
The situation in the Mid East and the world would have been better if the 'west' would just leave them (the ME) alone instead of , for example giving a helping hand in the recent coup d'etat in Egypt and propping up their puppet regimes. Just let the people determine their destiny and the market forces determine the price of oil.
You quote deut17:14-17? The caveat in the said verses is for the King. No doubt the king serves as an example but it is an example whether a person decides to follow or otherwise. However deut21:15-17 is a specific instruction of Mosaic Law concerning a man with 2 wives (ie. polygny). Therefore in a way , the bible per the OT law do not prohibit polygny. In addition many of the prophets in the bible practiced polygny.
Going back to mat19:8-9 , there is no way in context that biblical Jesus prohibited polygny. Just test the verses with the following scenario : ' what happens if the man does not divorce his wife while marrying another and there is no limit as to how many times he can do it'.
Referencing to the Greek and Roman customs would be a bad idea. It might be true that those societies upheld monogamous marriage but having concubines , mistresses and frequent visits to prostitutes was a norm back then. Having sex with slaves was also a norm.
Interestingly -
'..Just as in Greece, however, effectively polygynous relationships with (a man’s own) slaves were not prohibited. Married men’s sexual relations with slaves did not legally count as adultery. The Roman literary tradition is rife with allusions to sex with slaves (e.g., Garrido-Hory (1981); Kolendo (1981)), a notion that is well illustrated by the Stoic philosopher Musonius Rufus’s criticism of a ‘man who has relations with his own slave girl, a thing that some people consider quite without blame’ (fragment 12). Several centuries later the Christian writer Salvian made the same point when he claimed that the wealthy universally behaved ‘like the husbands of their slave girls’ (
Government of God7.4). More mundanely, slaves who were the illegitimate children of their owners (filii naturales) could be manumitted before they reached the standard legal age threshold of 30 years (Gaius, Institutes1.19),..'
Roman / Greek Monogamy and Polygyny - Stanford University
From Minoria:
Hello:
Just had time to read your comment.I agree that the West interfering in the Muslim countries(except for having purely commercial relations)is not going to change anything.
Invading Afghanistan,Irak,or Somalia were mistakes which would have been avoided if the experts in charge really knew the culture,history and mentality of the areas.
About Deut 21:15-17
I was thinking of bringing it up maybe later.Because there is a detail others before me have noticed:
1.It gives the son of the FIRST wife a DOUBLE inheritance.
2.With 2 wives it is practically always the case a man likes one at least a little more than the other(in Deut it gives the situation of one being loved and the other not).
3.So here Mosaic law recognizes two wives is NOT an ideal situation emotionally.It is a reality.
What commentators have said
They have said a double inheritance for the son of the FIRST wife was created to discourage having more than one wife.
Probably Hillel and the Essenes notices that detail,who knows?
Here is Deut 21:15-17:
"If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other,
and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love.
17 He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him."
From Minoria:
Returning to Hillel and his prohibition of polygamy:
1.He certainly knew the Golden Rule/Ethic of Reciprocity of Leviticus 19:18:
"Love your neighbor like yourself".
2.Hillel said Torah=Golden Rule,in his phrase:
"That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow(Note:this is the Golden Rule), this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."
3.Hillel certainly knew of Deut 21:15-17 and its details.
So I imagine he reasoned that since the essence of the Torah is the Golden Rule then
if you have a wife you would not like her to have a second husband,so do not get a second wife..
Hillel's version of the Golden Rule is the negative Golden Rule:
Do NOT do to others what you do NOT want them to do to you".
Hi Minoria ,
What you have been trying to explain is basically what I have been trying to convey to you.
Quoting you -
'..3.So here Mosaic law recognizes two wives is NOT an ideal situation emotionally.It is a reality.
What commentators have said
They have said a double inheritance for the son of the FIRST wife was created to discourage having more than one wife..'
Therefore the bible does not prohibit polygny but discourages it as the reality of it is that it is difficult for a man to be just to his wives if he practice polygny. Isn't such the same in Islam per Quran4:3 (sahih international) '.. if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice]..'?
The problem here is that mainstream christianity regard ploygny to sinning whereas it is lawful but discouraged per the bible. We cannot make unlawful what is lawful. Discouraging what is lawful doesn't make it unlawful.
From Minoria:
Hello Sam1528:
This has turned out to be longer than I thought it would ever be.I hope you don't think I am being argumentative or trying to win for winning's sake.
Ok,I should have stated this from the beginning:
1.In Judaism there have been several alliances/covenants:Noahide,Abrahamanic and finally the Mosaic one.
2.In Christianity there is an extra alliance,that of Jesus.
SO?
The NT states the Mosaic alliance(it would include its acceptance of having more than one wife)has been replaced.
It bases this on a prophecy in Jeremiah 31:
Hebrews 10:1-4
"The law(Note:Mosaic Law) is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins."
Then it says:
Hebrews 10:11-18
" Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”(Jeremiah 31)
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”(Jeremiah 31)
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary."
From Minoria:
To see it in better view here is Jeremiah 31:31-37.
For the rabbis it doesn't mean a literal replacement of Mosaic law but that it would be in the hearts of the Jews(the Law of the Heart).
"“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a NEW COVENANT
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will Not Be be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt(Note:Mosaic Law),
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
35 This is what the Lord says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the Lord Almighty is his name:
36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
declares the Lord,
“will Israel ever cease
being a nation before me.”"
From Minoria:
Now this is considered by Muslims to refer to Muhamad but for Christians it refers to the New Allaince/Covenant of Jesus in Jeremiah 31.Here it is:
Isaiah 42:1-7
"“Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will bring justice to the NATIONS(Note:he will be more than just a King for the Jews Only).........
In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;
4 he will not falter or be discouraged
till he establishes justice on earth.
In his teaching the islands will put their hope.”
5 This is what God the Lord says—
the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out,
who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it,
who gives breath to its people,
and life to those who walk on it:
6 “I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness;
I will take hold of your hand.
I will keep you and
will make you (Note:the Messiah) to be a COVENANT for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,
7 to open eyes that are blind,
to free captives from prison
and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness."
Hi Minoria ,
I am interested in your thoughts about this issue. No worries about you being argumentative.
I understand that biblical Jesus came with a new covenant. However we also need to bear in mind that he also came to fulfill 'the law and the prophets'. So in a way it was like maintaining the status quo while introducing new ones.
We have an understanding that in the OT (Mosaic Law) , polygny is frowned upon but not prohibited. So far , as I can recall one of the verses that (indirectly) states of polygny in the NT is mat19:8-9. Consider the scenario -
'..what happens if the man does not divorce his wife while marrying another and there is no limit as to how many times he can do it..'
I understand your position on polygny. It is similar to most muslims. However we do not consider polygny to be sinful. Mainstream christians , on the other hand consider polygny to be sinful and have been using this issue to argue against Islam and the status of women. This is a problem as polygny was / is biblically lawful. However it has been made unlawful for whatever reasons.
Do you think this is a problem?
From Minoria:
Just read your question.It seems to me to be not a problem since there is a similar situation in the Koran.
There at first drinking alcohol was tolerated,then it was forbidden.
From Minoria:
Hello Sam:
I was thinking a bit more about your question and I think an OT analogy to having more than one wife(something tolerated but not really approved by God) is the case of Abraham.
We have 2 cases of something that God later stated was not what he wanted but tolerated:
1.Abraham was married to his half-sister.(Gen. 20:12).
2.Abraham followed a Babylonian law of the time.
In Babylonian law a wife was entitled to get children from her husband through her slave, without any idea that the slave would receive the status of a legal wife.
In the Bible the same custom is employed again by Abraham's grandson Jacob with Lea and Rachel, his wives, and their maidservants Bilhah and Zilpah (Gen. 29:31 - 30:23 ).
I am referring to Ishmael by Hagar.It was not God's idea,it was not his order but Sara's idea.
Later in Mosaic law such situations were forbidden.
From Minoria:
When I said Babylonian I was referring to the First Babylonian Empire,which appeared in 1,800 BC,the time of Abraham,not the one of Nebuchadnezzar,which destroyed Jerusalem in 586 BC.
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