Tuesday, 18 January 2011

David Wood of Answering Muslims Taking Advantage of the Raped

David Wood has been touted as a public speaker on Islam – his potential clientele seem to be evangelical folk in the New York area. The man has the audacity to even collect cash for such “work”.

David Wood: ignorant of Sharia and insensitive to Pakistani Christians

David Wood churns out his usual trick of manipulating the misery of a Christian rape victim at the hands of a Muslim (in Pakistan) by copying and pasting a heartbreaking rape story of a Pakistani Christian girl whilst adding his own agenda-laden commentary. He tries to link it to “Sharia”:

“And people say we're a bunch of racists and bigots because we oppose Sharia”

Is he for real? Really? What has this story got to do with Sharia? NOTHING!!!

Can somebody tell this chap, Sharia OPPOSES these rapes in Pakistan and Sharia sees this rape as PUNISHABLE and HARAM (Forbidden). If Sharia was allowed to prevail in this instance, the rapist would be punished!

David Wood’s embarrassing “four witnesses” misconception - ignorant or deceptive?

Look, I’m pretty sure this chap has been educated in this regard by the likes of Adnan Rashid, Abdullah al Andalusi, Bassam Zawadi (and other Muslims who debate folk such as David) BUT our David is STILL advancing such myths:

“Good luck getting a conviction. The girl doesn't have four Muslim witnesses to testify on her behalf”

David, please stop embarrassing yourself. The hadd punishment requires four witnesses (or confession) BUT the discretionary punishment does NOT require four witnesses. Therefore, four witnesses are NOT required in order to convict a rapist. It is NOT complicated – why have you been unable to comprehend this?

I mean, you should know this ever so basic information as you are being paid to “lecture” on Islam in Churches. Perhaps these churches care very little about truth and accuracy BUT we do have a regard for the truth, hence this posting to help nudge you into the realm of accuracy, honesty and sensitivity.

Dave, please educate yourself before making yourself look silly. Here is an article we prepared earlier – so Islamophobes, such as yourself can learn a thing or two about Sharia and rape:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2011/01/facts-about-rape-in-islam.html

Jaw-dropping fear-mongering by “Brian”

Brian said...
I keep saying we need to do like Italy did and not recognize Islam as a legit religion. If we don't stop it now this will be the US soon muslims will run around raping every non muslim in sight.

I think Brian has been watching too many horror movies. Brian, try having a look at NationMaster’s rape statistics – NO Muslim country is in the top 30 and NO Muslim country has more rapes per capita than America, UK, Australia, France, Spain, New Zealand, and Canada…

Do you want to expunge your paranoid comment so you stop looking silly?

Message to Islamophobes – STOP using rapes of Pakistani Christians to further your bashing of Muslims. Nobody of any real consideration is going to convert to Christianity via such underhand missionary methods. Grow up!

Learn about Islam

Feedback: yahyasnow@hotmail.com

64 comments:

Yahya Snow said...

Here is the story being used by Islamophobes. Rather than appending a hateful manipulation of the story our thoughts are with the victims and their families.

The rapist has allegedly confessed so the authorities should press ahead with a punsihment.

Muslims should support the Christians. Islam does not allow such crimes.

Pakistani Christians, please be alert to fundamentalist "Christians" trying to use these crimes perpetrated against your community for the puproses of bashing Muslims
Here is the story:

TARKHANI, Pakistan, January 14 (CDN) — A Muslim who allegedly confessed to sexually assaulting five Christian girls raped a 10-year-old Catholic girl in Punjab Province last month, according to her family.

Tarkhani police have charged 25-year-old Muhammad Aftab, also known as Chandu, with raping a minor (section 376 of the Pakistan Penal Code) in a sugar cane field in Village 226-GB, according to First Information Report (FIR) No. 429 at the Tarkhani Police Station. Aftab has been arrested and remanded to Central Jail Faisalabad.

Aftab allegedly raped the girl on Dec. 10, Abid Masih, a 31-year-old relative of the girl, told Compass in village 226-GB, Tarkhani near Gojra.

“Though we had informed the Tarkhani police station, for a day we kept quiet as the rapist had gone underground, and we waited for him to come out,” Masih told Compass at his home. “When the rapist saw that no one has taken action against him, he came out, and our girl immediately identified him.”

Masih said the girl, whose name is withheld, went to a nearby field with 7-year-old Sahil Abid to load sugar cane for transport to a processing plant. The girl’s father, 55-year-old electrician Yousaf Masih, said that Aftab seized her and rushed into the sugar cane fields.

“Sahil Abid started screaming for help, but no one was there to help him,” Abid Masih said. “Therefore he came running to us and told us that a man kidnapped her and has taken her to the sugar cane fields.”

Sahil took him and Yousaf Masih to the site, Abid Masih said.

“As we reached there, that man masked his face and disappeared into the dense sugar cane fields,” he said.

Abid Masih took her to the Tehsil Headquarters (THQ) Hospital, Samundri, he said.

Family members said that doctors at Samundri THQ Hospital confirmed that the girl was raped, and the FIR also notes that the medical report by doctors at the hospital states that she was raped.

“SHO [the Station House Officer] pleas to the honorable Court of Law to penalize the rapist/pedophile, who has confessed during interrogation to raping at least five other little Christian girls before this sad incident,” the FIR states. “The culprit is sent to Central jail Faisalabad under judicial remand on the orders of the court and deserves exemplary punishment.”

Abid Masih and Yousaf Masih said that Sahil also was unable to see the rapist’s face, but that the girl was able to recognize him because she had been assaulted by him in the fields. They said she identified Aftab, the son of a local land owner.

“It’s not the first time he has raped a minor girl,” Abid Masih said. “He has raped at least five little Christian girls before this, but those families under pressure kept their mouths shut, and Christians also tried to force us to keep quiet and refrain from filing a police case, as they were fearful that it might worsen the relations between Christian and Muslim villagers.”

Area sources said local Christians were angry with the family of Yousaf Masih for taking legal action against the rapist, believing that it would damage relations between Muslims and Christians.

Anonymous said...

David Wood is a disgusting human being.

RefutingActs17 said...

Rape is clearly forbidden in Islam. The punishment for it is quite...brutal but deserving.

The Fat Man said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Fat Man said...

@The Muslims bigots

This is so beautiful, brings tears to my eyes.

What the whole non Muslim world wants to SCREAM AT THE TOP OF IT'S LUNGS.

"The Federal minister of Europe and International Affairs is requested to declare the Turkish ambassador...PERSONA NON GRATA...Your devotion to freedom of religion is nothing but pure hypocrisy"

It sounds so beautiful in the original GERMAN.

The Fat Man said...

@Yahya Snow

The last line of the article is the TELL.

"Area sources said local Christians were angry with the family of Yousaf Masih for taking legal action against the rapist, believing that it would damage relations between Muslims and Christians."

Think about the stress, think about the fear this community is under to express anger over filing charges against a rapist because it will "damage relations between Muslims and Christians"

That should tell you Bigoted Muslims something, when you say to me. The Pact of Umar (which is a forgery even though it exists in the Shafi School and Ibn Kathir's cometary) is "no big deal" because this is what the Christians imposed on themselves.

Why would any religious group impose such restrictions on themselves? Why would any religious group be angry at a family for reporting a rape? If they were not in FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES.

As the man said "Your devotion to freedom of religion is nothing but pure hypocrisy"

Sorry I can not reproduce the quote in its original GERMAN. But trust me it sounds so much better in the original GERMAN.

Ibn said...

Fat: As the man said "Your devotion to freedom of religion is nothing but pure hypocrisy"

Were you opposed to the construction of Park 51?

Anonymous said...

Christian terror that is all too familiar

Is it really any wonder that Christians are prone to such awful violence, and invasion of foreign lands, when their own holy book sets the tone so vividly for the treatment of non believers? This is how Jesus advises believers to deal with non believers...

"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you" (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

It seems as though there are many Christians who are more than happy to do the Lord's 'good work'

1) The national liberation front of Tripura -

Christian terrorists who want to set up a 'kingdom of God'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura

Included in their numerous crimes are forced conversions of non Christians, rape of female prisoners, murder of civilians, terrorism etc...

Classified by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism as one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world!!!

All in a day’s work for the true Christian

2) The Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia -

These true Bible following Christians would make Jesus proud, after all they are following the good example that he himself set when he stated...

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house.(Deuteronomy 21:10-12)

Supported by the Israel Defense Forces this Christian Militia massacred those Palestinians that had taken shelter in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps.

According to the BBC, the massacre was "a three-day orgy of rape and slaughter that left hundreds, possibly thousands, of innocent civilians dead in what is considered the bloodiest single incident of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

On December 16, 1982, it was declared an act of genocide by United Nations General Assembly.

3) Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/05/world/christian-rebels-wage-a-war-of-terror-in-uganda.html

http://www.examiner.com/foreign-policy-in-san-diego/africa-s-christian-terrorist-group-the-lord-s-resistance-army

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

Enough said on these Gospel missionaries - hallelujah!!!!!

4) Christian militants in US charged after FBI raids

Nine alleged members of a radical US Christian militia group have been charged with conspiring to kill police officers and wage war against the US.

The suspects were detained in a series of FBI raids across the Mid-West, while one remains at large.

Prosecutors say the eight men and one woman belonged to the Hutaree group.

It is alleged they planned to kill a police officer in Michigan and then stage a second attack on the funeral, using landmines and roadside bombs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8593975.stm

It’s about time that the Christians took notice and realised that the rest of the world is waking up to their continued aggression towards non Christians.

The world is sick and tired of your foreign crusades which slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent non Christian civilians, the world has had enough of your use of WMDs on non Christian populations, the raping, the kidnapping, the constant verbal bigotry towards other faith groups. Wake up Christians!!!

I wonder if any Christians would like to comment on this appraisal. Is it a fair one?

If not why not?

Anonymous said...

Christian terror that is all too familiar

Is it really any wonder that Christians are prone to such awful violence, and invasion of foreign lands, when their own holy book sets the tone so vividly for the treatment of non believers? This is how Jesus advises believers to deal with non believers...

"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you" (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

It seems as though there are many Christians who are more than happy to do the Lord's 'good work'

1) The national liberation front of Tripura -

Christian terrorists who want to set up a 'kingdom of God'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura

Included in their numerous crimes are forced conversions of non Christians, rape of female prisoners, murder of civilians, terrorism etc...

Classified by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism as one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world!!!

All in a day’s work for the true Christian

2) The Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia -

These true Bible following Christians would make Jesus proud, after all they are following the good example that he himself set when he stated...

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house.(Deuteronomy 21:10-12)

Supported by the Israel Defense Forces this Christian Militia massacred those Palestinians that had taken shelter in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps.

According to the BBC, the massacre was "a three-day orgy of rape and slaughter that left hundreds, possibly thousands, of innocent civilians dead in what is considered the bloodiest single incident of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

On December 16, 1982, it was declared an act of genocide by United Nations General Assembly.

3) Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/05/world/christian-rebels-wage-a-war-of-terror-in-uganda.html

http://www.examiner.com/foreign-policy-in-san-diego/africa-s-christian-terrorist-group-the-lord-s-resistance-army

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

Enough said on these Gospel missionaries - hallelujah!!!!!

4) Christian militants in US charged after FBI raids

Nine alleged members of a radical US Christian militia group have been charged with conspiring to kill police officers and wage war against the US.

The suspects were detained in a series of FBI raids across the Mid-West, while one remains at large.

Prosecutors say the eight men and one woman belonged to the Hutaree group.

It is alleged they planned to kill a police officer in Michigan and then stage a second attack on the funeral, using landmines and roadside bombs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8593975.stm

It’s about time that the Christians took notice and realised that the rest of the world is waking up to their continued aggression towards non Christians.

The world is sick and tired of your foreign crusades which slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent non Christian civilians, the world has had enough of your use of WMDs on non Christian populations, the raping, the kidnapping, the constant verbal bigotry towards other faith groups. Wake up Christians!!!

I wonder if any Christians would like to comment on this appraisal. Is it a fair one?

If not why not?

Anonymous said...

Christian terror that is all too familiar

Is it really any wonder that Christians are prone to such awful violence, and invasion of foreign lands, when their own holy book sets the tone so vividly for the treatment of non believers? This is how Jesus advises believers to deal with non believers...

"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you" (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

It seems as though there are many Christians who are more than happy to do the Lord's 'good work'

1) The national liberation front of Tripura -

Christian terrorists who want to set up a 'kingdom of God'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura

Included in their numerous crimes are forced conversions of non Christians, rape of female prisoners, murder of civilians, terrorism etc...

Classified by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism as one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world!!!

All in a day’s work for the true Christian

2) The Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia -

These true Bible following Christians would make Jesus proud, after all they are following the good example that he himself set when he stated...

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house.(Deuteronomy 21:10-12)

Supported by the Israel Defense Forces this Christian Militia massacred those Palestinians that had taken shelter in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps.

According to the BBC, the massacre was "a three-day orgy of rape and slaughter that left hundreds, possibly thousands, of innocent civilians dead in what is considered the bloodiest single incident of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

On December 16, 1982, it was declared an act of genocide by United Nations General Assembly.

3) Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/05/world/christian-rebels-wage-a-war-of-terror-in-uganda.html

http://www.examiner.com/foreign-policy-in-san-diego/africa-s-christian-terrorist-group-the-lord-s-resistance-army

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

Enough said on these Gospel missionaries - hallelujah!!!!!

4) Christian militants in US charged after FBI raids

Nine alleged members of a radical US Christian militia group have been charged with conspiring to kill police officers and wage war against the US.

The suspects were detained in a series of FBI raids across the Mid-West, while one remains at large.

Prosecutors say the eight men and one woman belonged to the Hutaree group.

It is alleged they planned to kill a police officer in Michigan and then stage a second attack on the funeral, using landmines and roadside bombs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8593975.stm

It’s about time that the Christians took notice and realised that the rest of the world is waking up to their continued aggression towards non Christians.

The world is sick and tired of your foreign crusades which slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent non Christian civilians, the world has had enough of your use of WMDs on non Christian populations, the raping, the kidnapping, the constant verbal bigotry towards other faith groups. Wake up Christians!!!

I wonder if any Christians would like to comment on this appraisal. Is it a fair one?

If not why not?

Anonymous said...

Austrian MP Ewald Stadler Slams Turkish Ambassador
It looks like some European politicians are waking up.

Posted by David Wood at 6:50 PM Email This
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betwixt said...
Wow, that was intense...and so on point.

Religious tolerance is a two-way street. Political correctness changed it into a one-way street in no time.

January 18, 2011 9:05 PM
The Fat Man said...
Gave me chills, anger, contempt, disdain, disgust, sounds so much better in Austrian then it does in English :)

January 18, 2011 10:02 PM
Traeh said...
Powerful speech. Stadler compressed quite a bit into a small space. Did you see how outraged he got when the Turkish ambassadors started complaining?

Stadler was merely channeling a genuine righteous fury that large numbers in Europe must be feeling. It's cathartic to finally experience someone representing that outrage in the political field.

January 19, 2011 1:42 AM
Traeh said...
In core Islamic texts, Muhammad makes sacred a shame/honor culture of hypocrisy, in which the appearance of virtue is more important than virtue itself

For example in Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 95:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying. " All the sins of my followers will be forgiven except those of the Mujahirin (those who commit a sin openly or disclose their sins to the people). An example of such disclosure is that a person commits a sin at night and though Allah screens it from the public, then he [the sinner] comes in the morning, and says, 'O so-and-so, I did such-and-such (evil) deed yesterday,' though he spent his night screened by his Lord (none knowing about his sin) and in the morning he removes Allah's screen from himself."

As a commenter at another website put it, "With regard to 'sins' in the Islamic world, it seems to me that a sin is only a sin when someone finds out about it. This meshes seamlessly with the honour/shame dynamic."

"...a culture of hypocrisy in which the appearance of virtue is far more important than virtue itself."- Robert Spencer, 01/17/2011.

Just think for a moment how evil the above canonical hadith is: Muhammad says Allah will forgive all the sins of Muslims, if Muslims conceal their sins from each other. That has to be one of the most diabolical social admonitions of all time.

January 19, 2011 1:54 AM

Anonymous said...

Christian terror that is all too familiar

Is it really any wonder that Christians are prone to such awful violence, and invasion of foreign lands, when their own holy book sets the tone so vividly for the treatment of non believers? This is how Jesus advises believers to deal with non believers...

"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you" (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

It seems as though there are many Christians who are more than happy to do the Lord's 'good work'

1) The national liberation front of Tripura -

Christian terrorists who want to set up a 'kingdom of God'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura

Included in their numerous crimes are forced conversions of non Christians, rape of female prisoners, murder of civilians, terrorism etc...

Classified by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism as one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world!!!

All in a day’s work for the true Christian

2) The Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia -

These true Bible following Christians would make Jesus proud, after all they are following the good example that he himself set when he stated...

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house.(Deuteronomy 21:10-12)

Supported by the Israel Defense Forces this Christian Militia massacred those Palestinians that had taken shelter in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps.

According to the BBC, the massacre was "a three-day orgy of rape and slaughter that left hundreds, possibly thousands, of innocent civilians dead in what is considered the bloodiest single incident of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

On December 16, 1982, it was declared an act of genocide by United Nations General Assembly.

3) Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/05/world/christian-rebels-wage-a-war-of-terror-in-uganda.html

http://www.examiner.com/foreign-policy-in-san-diego/africa-s-christian-terrorist-group-the-lord-s-resistance-army

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

Enough said on these Gospel missionaries - hallelujah!!!!!

4) Christian militants in US charged after FBI raids

Nine alleged members of a radical US Christian militia group have been charged with conspiring to kill police officers and wage war against the US.

The suspects were detained in a series of FBI raids across the Mid-West, while one remains at large.

Prosecutors say the eight men and one woman belonged to the Hutaree group.

It is alleged they planned to kill a police officer in Michigan and then stage a second attack on the funeral, using landmines and roadside bombs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8593975.stm

It’s about time that the Christians took notice and realised that the rest of the world is waking up to their continued aggression towards non Christians.

The world is sick and tired of your foreign crusades which slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent non Christian civilians, the world has had enough of your use of WMDs on non Christian populations, the raping, the kidnapping, the constant verbal bigotry towards other faith groups. Wake up Christians!!!

I wonder if any Christians would like to comment on this appraisal. Is it a fair one?

If not why not?

Anonymous said...

@TheFatMan

"@The Muslims bigots"

Would those be the Muslim bigots who take violent events in third world countries perpetrated by Christians and then attempt to demonise all Christians by reporting on it?

Or would it be the Muslim bigots who come out in force to oppose the building of a Catholoic Church because it is in too close a proximity to an elementary school?

FatMan...you should speak out against such things when you see it. Don't stay quiet when one group of people do this to another. Bigotry is a terrible thing afterall right?

Anonymous said...

To the Christians who cannot grasp this simple concept:

"I heard Allah's Apostle saying. " All the sins of my followers will be forgiven except those of the Mujahirin (those who commit a sin openly or disclose their sins to the people). An example of such disclosure is that a person commits a sin at night and though Allah screens it from the public, then he [the sinner] comes in the morning, and says, 'O so-and-so, I did such-and-such (evil) deed yesterday,' though he spent his night screened by his Lord (none knowing about his sin) and in the morning he removes Allah's screen from himself."

Only the spiritually blind, like Spencer et al, could look at this Hadith and see in it hypocrisy.

What the narration is pointing out is that when a person sins (and what Christian wouldn't agree that we all sin from time to time?) and if you have done so without others seeing (which may sometimes be the case) you should seek Allah's (swt) forgiveness but then refrain from self disclosure or worse refrain from braggig about said sinful act.

There is a tendency in the West to be 'open' and 'honest' about our shortcommings and ugly behaviour. There is a belief that by this type of self disclosure you acheive a kind of cathartic release and therefore feel exonerated.

To speak or write about things is an act comparable to all other actions. Words whether spoken or written carry great power and we weild them as a trust from Allah (swt).

Who, honestly, could not grasp the concept that you should refrain from this kind of self exposure in the interest of other people who may be tempted or led astray by your words?

(The only really legit reason I can think of for doing so is if you need help from a professional for instance: Alcohol addiction, gambling etc)

Otherwise this is spreading Fitna and is far from hypocrisy.

If any Christian has a problem with this narration I'd like to ask them a simple question:

What good does speaking to others about past sinful acts achieve?

Ali said...

fatman i have a question to you. Do you admit David Wood is a liar?

Anonymous said...

A man threatened to kill his cousin and harm her family after she decided to stop wearing the traditional Muslim headscarf, a court has heard.

Mohamed Al-Hakim, 29, allegedly phoned Alya Al-Safar to tell her she must die because of the ‘shame’ she had brought – leaving her too afraid to leave the house.

He had already branded her family ‘bitches and whores’ because of her decision, the court heard.

Miss Al-Safar, 21, had stopped wearing the hijab a few days before the phone call.

She said that Al-Hakim’s mother, her aunt Mardhiya Al-Musawi, ‘wasn’t happy’ that she had stopped covering her hair – a step she had been considering for more than two years.

She received his call when she was with her parents and two younger brothers at their home in Hammersmith, West London.

Al-Hakim allegedly instructed her to play the conversation over a loudspeaker so that they could all listen at about midnight on June 9.

Miss Al-Safar, who did not have her head covered in court but did swear on the Koran, told the jury that Al-Hakim had said: ‘Listen to me carefully, it has been three days and I did not sleep.

‘I have decided not to go out of the house for two weeks.

‘Listen Alya, I am warning you if by the 19th of June you are not wearing the hijab back, I am warning you I will kill you and harm you. I am giving you ten days. You brought shame to your family, you should not have done that.’ (Read more.)

Yahya Snow said...

@fatman,

They are frightened due to the thugs associated with the accused.

It has nothing to do with Shafi fiqh.

These people are not acting in the interests of Islam

The Fat Man said...

I forgot to post the link lol
Wish the US had Politicians Like this

@The Muslims bigots

This is so beautiful, brings tears to my eyes.

What the whole non Muslim world wants to SCREAM AT THE TOP OF IT'S LUNGS.

"The Federal minister of Europe and International Affairs is requested to declare the Turkish ambassador...PERSONA NON GRATA...Your devotion to freedom of religion is nothing but pure hypocrisy"

It sounds so beautiful in the original GERMAN.

It sounds so beautiful in the original GERMAN

The Fat Man said...

Ibn Asked

"Were you opposed to the construction of Park 51?"

First let me correct your English.

Since the Ground Zero Islamic Supremecy Mega Victory Mosq has not been built. Then the question should not be in the form of past tense, but instead the present tense as demonstrated below.

Are you opposed to the construction of Park 51?

First let me say Muslims in the US unlike Christians in some Muslim countries have every right to build a mosq even at Ground Zero. But just because you can doesn't mean you should.

When I first heard about it I thought it was a joke, I mean really who would be that stupid to think that would be a good idea.

I find the idea not only to be offensive, but outrageous, repulsive, and repugnant.

So yes I am opposed to Muslims building a "Ground Zero Islamic Supremacy Mega Victory Mosq, at the site of one of the greatest acts of Islamic Missionary work on US soil.

I wish they would come to there sense's, re consider and build the thing someplace else. The idea is not only insensitive but demonstrates the contempt you Muslims have for the feelings of others.

Now with that said, I will and do oppose any legislation that directly forbid the building of the Mosq. In other words if the US passed a law and said NO MOSQS at Ground Zero.

Instead I am hoping that you Muslims will realize just how offensive this thing is to so many Americans, that you would come to realize that this will not build bridges but instead further divides us.

But that level of common sense, compassion, sensitivity for others, and empathy is probably a little do much to ask for from a Muslim.

The Fat Man said...

@Yahya Snow

"They are frightened due to the thugs associated with the accused."

I agree they are afraid of the MUSLIMS associated with the MUSLIM accused. That's the point.

The Fat Man said...

@The Anonymous Muslims on this blog.

I have had problems singing into blogger as well as have been to lazy sometimes to do it. However on the few occasions when I have posted Anonymously I have identified my self. (There might be one time when I didn't, cant remember so if you find once where I didn't identify myself don't be foolish and accuse me of lying.)

I do not think it is to much to ask for you Anonymous Muslims to do the same. So there for I will not respond to any Anonymous posters.

If you want me to respond then log in.

Anonymous said...

@TheFatMan

You wouldn't reply to any questions I pose whether anonymously or otherwise, so what would be the point?

May Allah (swt) guide you

Anonymous said...

Besides you're nothing but an ignorant bigot anyway

Again, may Allah (swt) guide you

Ibn said...

I asked Fatman, who was farting about how Muslims are hypocritical with respect to freedom of religion, the following question: Were you opposed to the construction of Park 51? Fatman responded thus, "..yes I am opposed ....." Fatman, therefore, stands condemned of the very thing he accused the Muslims of. In other words, Fatman's "..devotion to freedom of religion is nothing but pure hypocrisy"

Ibn said...

Fatman's sanity has been on the decline lately. Therefore, I will support the construction of the "Ground Zero Islamic Supremacy Mega Victory Mosq(ue)".

The Fat Man said...

Ibn

Thank you for demonstrating the Muslim's total disregard from honesty and sensitivity for others.

I stated very clearly why I am opposed to the Victory Mosq, it is the location. It has nothing to do with religion.

Second although I am opposed to it on the grounds that I stated, which you failed to comprehend. I AM ALSO OPPOSED TO ANY LEGISLATION THAT WOULD PREVENT THE BUILDING OF A MOSQ, not only at Ground Zero but anywhere in the United States of America. I may not like your religion, I may find it repulsive, but I will defend to the death your right to practice your religion ON YOUR OWN PEOPLE.

Can you say the same for Christians?

This has to be a decision for the Muslim community, you guys need to step up and say this is a BAD IDEA, it is offensive it is insulting it demonstrates a total lack of understanding and empathy it is JUST WRONG.

But you have just demonstrated that Muslims are not interested in what is right and what is wrong. You are not interested in the feelings of others, you do not care for the pain that others feel. Not only are Muslims like you bigots, but your also SOCIOPATHS.

Ali said...

to anonymous christian

Christian kills cousin for inappropriate dress:

http://answeringchristians.blogspot.com/2010/04/christian-kills-cousin-over.html

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Christian and TheFatMan:

Care to comment on the above?

Wait for it, I can feel another cut and paste avalanche coming on!!!

The Fat Man said...

@Ali

So what makes them Christian?

Ibn said...

FatMan: So what makes them Christian?

I agree. They are not Christians unless they are guilty of molesting children (or being gay).

MANNY said...

Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity

Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’

And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).



Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth – a Man Approved of God

The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
[The Bible, Acts 2:22]



The First Commandment is that God is One

The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."

This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:

"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]

It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.

Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.

Anonymous said...

@TheFatMan

"So what makes them Christian?"

Perhaps the fact that they were about to celebrate an Easter dinner maybe?

To be fair like most Christians they were probably intending on painting some chicken eggs and rolling them down the hill at the bottom of the garden with the easter bunny but hey.....

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/04/06/inappropriate-easter-outfit-blamed-in-death.html

Go on, tell us it's different ;)

The Fat Man said...

@Manny

You said in your Isogeet of the text of Mathew

"On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments."

Question which commandments did Jesus say to keep?

Also Jesus said no one is good but God in heaven. So then are you saying that Jesus is not good?

Radical Moderate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ali said...

@fatman

Take note of the "family gatherings" and "Easter" (which is also Ressurection Day).

Ali said...

//So then are you saying that Jesus is not good?//

huh? how can you relate this passage to Jesus being God?

Radical Moderate said...

@Ali

So family gathering for a dinner that happens to be on Easter Sunday makes them Christian.

But Muslims who pray 5 times a day, know the Quran and the Sunnah fast on Ramadan and have said the Shahada, and chant "ALLAH OOOOOO AKBAR" before they blow themselves up are NOT MUSLIM.

Interesting.

Radical Moderate said...

Ali

I asked "So then are you saying that Jesus is not good?"

Thats GOOD, not GOD, one of the differences between the two words is the absence of a SECOND O in GOD.

I swear your the second Muslim to demonstrate a serious reading comprehension problem.

Yahya Snow said...

Radical,

Superficial arguments will not get you far!

Are museums "good"? Are schools "good"? Are libraries "good"? Are children "good"? Is food "good"?
Is American football "good"?Is reading "good"?

I can go on and mention things many of us consider to be "good" yet NONE of us consider these things to be GOD!

I mean, you are NEVER going to claim the above things to be God, are you?

Yes, Jesus is good - just like all other Prophets (pbut). BUT this does not make them God!

In the Bible verse it is obvious Jesus is not claiming to be God. This "good" seems to refer to the source of goodness.

If you want it to refer to a general good then you will be having issues as food, books, oxygen, etc are ALL "good" but are NOT divine -just like Jesus (p).

Essentially, you were trying to mislead us via such flawed argumentation

I have no idea who taught you such a shoddy and desperate argumentation - whoever it was, please admonish them as false teachers.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction [2 Peter 2:1]


Iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another - Proverbs

Radical Moderate said...

@Yahya Snow

You said
"Yes, Jesus is good - just like all other Prophets (pbut). BUT this does not make them God!"

So Jesus is good, but he tells the young man that no one is Good except God in heaven.

You then say...
"This "good" seems to refer to the source of goodness."

So you read into the text. The young man did not ask Jesus if he was the source of Goodness, he did not even ask what is the source of Goodness. Instead he only called Jesus a Good teacher. Which you would agree he was. Also Jesus did not say "No one is the source of Good except God in heaven."
He said "No one is Good but God in heaven."

As interesting as that is, it really is not my argument. I just wanted to draw your attention to how you have to "INTERPOLATE" your own bias into the text.

My real argument has to do with "What commandments did Jesus tell the young man to keep to inherit eternal life?"

That's why it was my first question. Which you Muslims seemed to ignore. So can any of you answer me on that.

"What commandments did Jesus tell the young man to keep to inherit eternal life?"

Yahya Snow said...

@Radical

You failed in your "good" argument and then wrote:

"As interesting as that is, it really is not my argument. I just wanted to draw your attention to how you have to "INTERPOLATE" your own bias into the text."



Please do send me the links to your debates, they must be full gems like this.

Radical Moderate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Radical Moderate said...

@Yahya Snow

Again it wasnt my argument, that is why it was my second question. Also you proved the point I was making. That you have to interpolate your own bias into the text.

So tell me I am intersted according to Jesus in this passage in Mathew what commands did Jesus tell the young man to follow to inherit eternal life?

sam1528 said...

radical moderate (thefatman) ,

What is the biblical definition of 'eternal life'??

Ali said...

@fatman/radical moderate

do you really think those non-Christians who celebrate Easter are willing to kill a girl who didn't dress properly for a family dinner? no of course not atheiests do whatever.

think about it. you know the movie blair witch where in the end you are supposed to "know" that the guy got taken by the witches even though they didn't show it?

easter+family dinner+ innapropriate dress=christian. you might not like it, but to the clowns david wood and rob spencer it is purely an act of the holy spirit.

Ali said...

actualliy RM, those who actually know the Quran do not blow themselves up.

Radical Moderate said...

@The Muslims on this blog

Well it's been a few days since I asked my question and no one as answered. I find that interesting.

Yahya Snow said...

@radical

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

sam1528 said...

radical moderate (thefatman) ,

This is the third time I am asking this question. What is the biblical definition of 'eternal life'?

Radical Moderate said...

@Yahya
So Jesus replied "Jesus replied, "'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,'[a] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[b]" That is a quotation from Exodus 20:12-17 and or Deut 5:16-21 respectably.

So this is all the young man has to do to inherit eternal life?

Radical Moderate said...

@Sam1528

Yes I saw your question, sorry I'm not going to explain to you the obvious.

sam1528 said...

radical moderate (thefatman) ,

Another example of your hypocrisy and fear of being undermined. Why are you sooooooo afraid of giving me the answer?

Since you claim its very obvious , ok then - what is the biblical definition of 'eternal life'?

Radical Moderate said...

Sam1528

Do you really want me expose your reading comprehension problem again, as well as your total dishonesty?

sam1528 said...

radical moderate (thefatman)

Reading comprehension?? Dishonest?? Since when asking a question makes one having reading comprehension or being dishonest?

My question again (5th time) : what is the biblical definition of 'eternal life'??

This is really funny .... just look at yourself - twisting and turning trying your best to avoid answering. Poor isn't it ...

Radical Moderate said...

@Sam1528

Wow in our last exchange you demosntrated a severe reading comprehesnsion problem, as well as admitted to dishonesty. So now it seems like you have problem with memory retetion.

Really man give it up.

sam1528 said...

radical moderate (thefatman) ,

How can one be dishonest if one has made an admission? Mental acrobatics from you once again.

For the 6th time : what is the biblical definition of 'eternal life'?

Comprehension problems with asking a question? Why are you sooooooo afraid to provide the biblical definition of 'eternal life'?

You have been harping on the following - '..Which you Muslims seemed to ignore. So can any of you answer me on that.

"What commandments did Jesus tell the young man to keep to inherit eternal life?"..'.

Give us the biblical definition of 'eternal life'.

Yahya Snow said...

@Radical

The had to believe in 1 God and had to accpet the messengership of Jesus. Of course they had rules to follow too - as outlined above.

Please answer Sam's questions now - this game of cat and mouse is getting tiresome.

Radical Moderate said...

y@Yahya Snow

You said...
"The had to believe in 1 God and had to accpet the messengership of Jesus. Of course they had rules to follow too - as outlined above."

Can you show me in that passage where Jesus tells the young man to worship One God or even which GOD TO WORSHIP?

Jesus doesn't say anything about GOD except in the begging of the discourse, that he is good. But the young man asks him specifically.
"Which Commandments should I follow?"

In other passages when Jesus is asked what is the greatest commandment he responds quite clearly.

In Mathew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus is asked what the greatest commandment is. Jesus responds that the greatest is...

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment"(Mathew 22:34-46)

"The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength"(Mark 12:28-37)

"He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind" (Luke 10:25-28)

So what is this greatest commandment?
1. “I am YHWY your God. You shall have no other gods before me”
2. “You shall not make for yourself an idol”
3. “Do not take the name of the Lord in vain”
4. “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”
(Exodus 20:2-11, Deut 5:6-15)

These four commandments are about GOD, and how he is to be worshiped. Do you think that these commandments are important to inherit eternal life?

sam1528 said...

radical moderate (thefatman),

You are running round and round in circles chasing your own backside. You say '..These four commandments are about GOD, and how he is to be worshiped. Do you think that these commandments are important to inherit eternal life?..'

What you have provided so far is the way / means to inherit 'eternal life'

Definition of 'inherit' from the merriam webster online '..to come into possession of or receive especially as a right or divine portion..'.
(http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inherited)

For the 7th time : what is the biblical definition of 'eternal life'?

Why are you soooooo scared to give us the biblical definition of 'eternal life'?

Radical Moderate said...

@ sam1528 said...

You said...
"How can one be dishonest if one has made an admission? Mental acrobatics from you once again."

Your dishonest because you are DISHONEST, not because you admitted your dishonesty. Your dishonesty does not become honesty because you admit to your dishonesty. It just means you were busted, caught in a lie.

WOW only a Muslim could think your not dishonest if you admit to your dishonesty.

You also said...
"What you have provided so far is the way / means to inherit 'eternal life'"

Wow nothing get's by you does it. yeah that is what the text is about, and that is the text I am discussing.

You also said...
"For the 7th time : what is the biblical definition of 'eternal life'?"

You can ask that question a billion times, I have no intention or desire to answer you. Since that is not what the text that I am discussing is dealing with. I'm sorry if you can not figure out what the biblical definition is on Eternal Life.

That is MILK sir, I am discussing Solid food that is Meat.

When I want to return to the kiddie table I may discuss "Eternal Life" with you. However right now I am at adults table.

So please know your place and go sit back at the kiddie table, when I am ready to give a lesson to children I will be sure to include you.

sam1528 said...

radical moderate (thefatman) ,

Ha ha , look at you. Still at your mental gymnastics. You are harping on a non existent issue. Isn't enforcement of 'blood money' by the government? Yes or No? Are you trying to hide behind the so call 'dishonesty' claim? Poor .... isn't it? Where is the dishonesty if one has made an admission?

Your argument is sooooo poor. You are talking about means / ways to 'inherit eternal life' but you refuse to give the biblical definition of 'eternal life'. Why talk about something that you cannot even define?

For the 8th time : what is the biblical definition of 'eternal life'?

Why are you harping that muslims cannot answer your question? You cannot even give the biblical definition of the 'eternal life' pertaining to your question.

Are all christian like you? You are not engaging us muslims. You are just moaning. Some how or rather zionist christians like you are soooooo scared when muslims question your bible. Such insecurity.

Radical Moderate said...

Sam1528

Once again you are showing your reading comprehension problem. What part of
"I have no intention or desire to answer you."

Do you not understand?

sam1528 said...

radical moderate (thefatman) ,

From you : "I have no intention or desire to answer you."

If you not able to provide the biblical definition of 'eternal life' , why keep harping that muslims cannot answer your question on issues pertaining 'eternal life'?

The comment section of this blog is open to everyone. You should be able to defend / explain / justify your claim.

Can I conclude that you don't know what you are talking about?

For the 9th time : What is the biblical definition of 'eternal life'?

Yahya Snow said...

Radical please just answer the question. If you can't then stop faffing about and just say so.

Please also answer your own question as you clearly have an answer in mind...present the "answer" you have in mind.