Saturday, 1 January 2011

James White throws Shamoun, Shoebat and Saleem under the bus!

Rabble rousers are dumped
[NOTE: The entire comment thread is pasted in the comment section]

Dr James White grilled by Muslims

James White has recently been grilled in a comment section on a Muslim website (Muslim Matters). He was repeatedly asked about the lies he utilizes and passes off as scholarly insight whilst in the view of his Christian audience as well as being quizzed on the three proven deceivers whom he has been associated with; Sam Shamoun, Walid Shoebat and Kamal Saleem.

James White drops evangelical “superstars” – former PLO terrorists bombed by White

Of course nobody who is trying to be taken seriously is going to be associated with any of the three aforementioned stooges thus White was forced to throw Shamoun under the bus. He did this in a spectacularly subtle and tacit way. However, he adopted a more direct approach to do away with Shoebat and Saleem:

"I do not know either Kamal Saleem or Walid Shoebat. I have never met either man, personally, or electronically. A few weeks ago I was asked to do a program that was to include both men appearing via Skype video. I declined. Why? Because I am aware of controversy concerning the testimony of both men"

[Note: I believe this to be a true statement from White – White has not shared a podium with these two tricksters]

White tacitly admits he used lies

Here is the thing, White knew he was being grilled by MUSLIMS and thus fobbing them off in the deceptive and inconsistent style he did with his Christian audience on his blog would not work. Thus he remained SILENT. Well, what else can you do when you KNOW you are guilty of using lies and your immediate audience are not the aominion flock who accept everything you say regardless of inconsistency and inaccuracy?

[Note: when White was first accused of using lies by Shamoun, to his flock he claimed his Muslim abjurers were perpetuators of dishonesty – I guess White knew if he lied to the Muslim audience somebody at the back of the room would have called him out – it speaks volumes of the way White takes advantage of the ignorance and discipleship of his Christian audience (aominions). See here for more info on the said episode.]

You can check for yourself; White was accused of using lies repeatedly yet he never responded. Silence can speak volumes…

White abandons the other trickster - Sam Shamoun
It looks like White is feeling embarrassed over the rabble rousers who he hangs out with. Shamoun was accused of being “worse” than Ergun Caner. White never defended him! He even seemed to claim he never knew him:

"I have never had any contact with these other men, and if someone says I have, they need to provide proof."

[Note: If White is claiming not to know Shamoun I can state he is friends with Shamoun and even learns Islam from Shamoun – White seems to be allowing the ambiguity in this comment to disassociate himself from the rabble rouser, Shamoun. If this is the case then it’s not intellectually honest – White is FRIENDS and COLLEAGUES with Shamoun. Anybody who claims to the contrary is either ill-informed or dishonest]

Furthermore, White offers NO defense of Sam Shamoun even though he is repeatedly accused of being a liar. I guess White KNOWS Shamoun is a deceiver. The question that begs to be asked is why then is White promoting Shamoun on the DL, using his lies and befriending him? I think this comment is quite revealing:

“Standing up to the powers-that-be regarding Caner was very damaging to my work, not just time wise, but in many other ways”

Perhaps White is mindful of the amount of Christian support he has lost over the Ergun Caner affair. If White speaks out about the three stooges Shoebat, Saleem and Shamoun, his DVD, book and mp3 sales would be stunted further. Nobody likes a whistle blower.

[Quick note on Shamoun: Last time I checked Shamoun was plying his trade on an internet chat site – he is delivering Bible “classes”. The man cannot handle scripture at all but is delivering “classes”.]

Where does this leave ABN Sat? HUMILIATED!

ABN’s three stooges are NOT even trusted by their co-religionist and in the case of Shamoun, colleague! The next time our James sits next to Sam Shamoun on ABN Sat we can all be sure James is thinking Shamoun could drop a whopper any second. James, if he is consistent, will be declining to share a podium with Shamoun just like he has done with Saleem and Shoebat.

The Christian missionary motion picture of deceit is becoming even more vivid and laughable.

[See the comment section to see the entire dialogue]

Related:

James White is writing a book on ISLAM!

Walid Shoebat wants to NUKE Muslims!
Feedback: yahyasnow@hotmail.com

34 comments:

Yahya Snow said...

Greetings:

I would like to offer a correction to the impression left by this article at one point. I have repeatedly denied that Dr. Caner’s anti-Calvinism had anything at all to do with my engagement in exposing his false claims. Dr. Caner made the comment about Calvinists being worse than Muslims in 2006. I did not post my first article raising issues about his honesty and his claims relating to his Islamic past until February, 2010 (in reference to his having falsely claimed to have debated Shabir Ally, a matter I had taken up directly with Sheikh Ally himself). I was involved in getting this matter before the public’s attention for only one reason: as you noted in your article, I seek to respond to Islam’s claims and give a defense of the Christian proclamation of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. If I believe Jesus Christ is the way, the TRUTH, and the life, I can hardly sit quietly by when someone is engaging in such behavior. His anti-Calvinism was irrelevant: had he been a staunch Calvinist lying about his past, I still would have had to do what I did. Thank you for letting me make that correction.

james

Reply


Mostapha S.

December 30, 2010 • 1:13 am .Greetings Dr. White,

The contention that Caner’s anti-Calvinism could have something to do with your efforts in exposing him was not originally mine, and was made by Christian bloggers who followed the development of the situation; but it did made some sense, which is why I included it. The article does not claim that this was your main reason for being involved in this, but only that it “helps explain” it, and it still seem to do so; if nothing, Caner drew you attention with his attacks on Calvinism, which helped you notice the discrepancies in his testimony.

Reply

Yahya Snow said...

Muneeb

December 30, 2010 • 2:28 am .Hello Dr White,

“can hardly sit quietly by when someone is engaging in such behavior.”

If that is the case, you should not sit quitely by other folks like Ergun Caner. You sit quitely next to Kamal Saleem, another false self proclaimed Jihadi. You had no problem sharing the stage with other fake Ex-Muslims like Kamal Saleem and Walid Shoebat on a live TV program. Where is your consistency? Why your belief in truth is so selective?
If your motive is only the TRUTH, why have you remained silent until 2010? And why did your motivation to the “Truth” come only after Caner claimed he debated Imam Ally. Are there untruths that a Christian could tolerate and others that cannot be tolerated?

If you are concerned about truth, you should stop using unscholarly materials from Sam Shamoun’s website, and paste them on your Blog as an Encyclopedia of the Arabic language.

Reply


James White

December 30, 2010 • 7:57 am .Two quick points. 1) Could you tell me when I shared a stage with either Kamal Saleem or Walid Shoebat? 2) The information that prompted me to first look into Ergun Caner’s story was directly related to my own ministry, i.e., his claim to have twice debated Shabir Ally. I have debated Shabir Ally, four times (Biola, 2006, Seattle, 2007, London twice, 2008), and hence had personal knowledge of the situation, and could contact Shabir directly (he kindly responded quickly). When Dr. Caner refused to answer for his false statements in direct, personal e-mail contact, I had no choice but to publicly address the claims he then made on his own website.

I do not know either Kamal Saleem or Walid Shoebat. I have never met either man, personally, or electronically. A few weeks ago I was asked to do a program that was to include both men appearing via Skype video. I declined. Why? Because I am aware of controversy concerning the testimony of both men, and given that I have no means of researching all the relevant material (unlike the Caner situation, which involved looking into claims made about events here in the US, not overseas), and hence I felt it inappropriate to do so in light of the Caner situation. Since I have not researched the matter (and surely have neither the time, nor the means, to do so), I could not in good conscience lend my credence, nor my denial, to their claims.

Finally, I was asked why I “remained silent” until 2010. As I have explained, and documented, many times, I had no information relating to Caner’s claims relating to Islam until February of 2010. Mohammad Khan had contacted me, as I recall, in November of 2009, and linked me to his videos. I found them troubling, but having only viewed a couple of the earliest ones, figured this might just be another example of Caner being careless in his comments (as he had been with me in 2006). It was not until I was on my way to London to debate Abdullah al Andalusi in February of 2010 that Mr. Khan provided me with documentation showing that Caner had claimed to not only debate Shabir Ally, but Abdul Saleeb as well(!). Even at this point I did not seriously consider the possibility that his entire story was made up. (That came about when an associate dug up the records in Ohio proving that Caner had lived there since age 2.5.) I contacted Caner directly about the claims, and when his response was significantly less than truthful, I publicly commented on the topic, which began the further research that led to the entire controversy coming into the general knowledge of the evangelical audience.

james

Reply

Yahya Snow said...

John

December 30, 2010 • 8:29 am .@James White

Thanks for clearing the reason why you joined against Ergun Caner. Ergun Caner has harmed Muslim-Christian dialogue.

I noticed you said you have never shared a stage with the two stooges ( Kamaal and Walid) but this page says you work for the same christian missionary tv show:

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/12/what-every-christian-needs-to-know.html

I noticed you did not answer about Mr Shamoun’s lies. The page above also mentions you using some of his lies and it also links to some audio of him saying many bad words to Muslims and to Shaykh Ally.

Even if Mr Shamoun is your friend you should still expose him like you did to Ergun Caner. If you don’t it is not being true as a person. Mr Shamoun = a less famous Ergun Caner. Both are bad people and I think Mr Shamoun is worse because he not only lies he insults and hates on Muslims

Thanks for helping to expose Ergun. Please be true and expose the other Ergun who is your friend. The page above says he is your friend. I have also seen others who have confirmed he is your friend.

Please also expose Walid and Kamal. The videos to expose them are on Ayamen1 YouTube page and 1MoreMuslim You Tube page. Please look at mokhan247 page as well to help help you.

Muslims will send you videos so you will not have to waste time.

Reply


James White

December 30, 2010 • 5:09 pm .1) I am a Christian minister, professor, author, and apologist. I am not a journalist looking to engage in muckraking. Standing up to the powers-that-be regarding Caner was very damaging to my work, not just time wise, but in many other ways.

2) I have never had any contact with these other men, and if someone says I have, they need to provide proof. The only reference you will find to Walid Shoebat on my blog is found here: http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3664 You will note that it is a negative refutation of a claim he makes in his presentations.

3) I do not “work for” the Aramaic Broadcasting Network. I have been invited on as a guest to address a number of different topics, such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JikrXk51L0M If being on a television network makes you an associate of everyone else on the network, does that mean Ibrahim Hooper is pals with O’Reilly?

4) I would invite those who think I have to go after everyone they do not like in the Christian world to consider the logic of such a request, and I would likewise invite you to consider why I never see anyone exposing the silliness that is often presented under the guise of “expert” testimony of “former Christians” on such outlets as the Deen Show. For example, I provided extensive refutation of the claims of one such “former Christian” turned Muslim here: http://www.youtube.com/user/DrOakley1689?feature=mhum#p/c/7B15A84877438C38

5) In response to the question directed to non-Muslims concerning why we read Muslim Matters, and what we think: I have listened to hundreds of hours of lectures by men like Bilal Philips, Yasir Qadhi, and Muhammad Al-Shareef. I have linked to articles on Muslim Matters on my blog as well. I find it useful to try to “hear” the other side as best I can, and normally, the extra “noise” of the more rancorous folks is not present on this site, and I appreciate that.

6) I have a policy not to invest my time in combox discussions, let alone wars, so I will make this my final submission. Thank you for letting me comment on my motivations for seeking to call Ergun Caner to account for his claims.

james

Yahya Snow said...

Mostapha S.

December 31, 2010 • 3:36 am .Dr. White,

You said:

“I would invite those who think I have to go after everyone they do not like in the Christian world to consider the logic of such a request, and I would likewise invite you to consider why I never see anyone exposing the silliness that is often presented under the guise of “expert” testimony of “former Christians” on such outlets as the Deen Show. For example, I provided extensive refutation of the claims of one such “former Christian” turned Muslim here…”

While I obviously do not expect you to go after every trooper in the army of fraudsters cashing-in on the widespread fear of Muslims these days, I do not think it is fair to compare people like shaykh Estes with Caner; there are no discrepancies in his (shaykh Yusuf’s) testimony, no false sensationalistic claims about his past, no stoking fear about Christians, just theological discussion with which we may or may not agree. We have nothing to expose him for; we can only point to his errors when and if he makes them, but we have no reason to believe that he would intentionally twist the truth the way Caner did. And I have so far to find just one former Christian who became a Muslim (at least a prominent one) who deserves such a treatment.
With regards to your “refutation” of shaykh Estes, I really find it interesting that you happen to be one of the rare Christian apologists who have tried to refute him, while people (Muslim debaters and apologists) who are of a much smaller caliber get a lot of attention. I won’t comment on the reasons for that, though I’m sure most Muslims who have watched him and heard him speak have a good guess why that is so.
Thank you for sparing some time to stop by and comment on the article.

Regards,

Mustafa


Muneeb

January 1, 2011 • 10:27 am .Dr White,
I said that you shared a show with Kamal and Shoebat because it was advertised on ABN website, and never removed from there even after the supposed date.
But it’s a good thing to declined such invitation, that would only harm your ministry, and your credibility. I want to let you know, that there is enough evidence to put Kamal Saleem in the same category of Dr Caner. He fabricates Hadiths from the top of his head, with strange kind of references.

Having said that, I find it strange that you still associate and promote ABN channel, which is dedicated to spread falsehood about Islam, such us that Islam condones Homosexuality.

As a Scholar, you should stick to the scholarly cycle, you cannot be a scholar in debates, and switch hats on your webcast show. You blame the Muslims for using The Encyclopedia Britannica, yet you have no trouble quoting from “The Assyrian encyclopedia” and calling it “an excellent insight”. I am sure you can find a more educated tutor for Arabic language, not one who happen to be born in Arab country, but a Scholar of Arabic language.

I would call you to review your sources, That would prevent you from posting articles about a verbs that doesn’t exist in the Quran. I, personally, would never make a claim concerning the Hebrew or the Greek, and I will never take any claim from one who cannot read or write neither Greek nor Hebrew, and Mr Shamoun can’t read nor write Arabic.

Yahya Snow said...

John

January 1, 2011 • 12:43 pm .Hello everyone and happy new year

Muslims please pray so i have a good year

I agree with Mustapha and muneeb

Mustapha said
While I obviously do not expect you to go after every trooper in the army of fraudsters cashing-in on the widespread fear of Muslims these days, I do not think it is fair to compare people like shaykh Estes with Caner; there are no discrepancies in his (shaykh Yusuf’s) testimony, no false sensationalistic claims about his past, no stoking fear about Christians, just theological discussion with which we may or may not agree. We have nothing to expose him for; we can only point to his errors when and if he makes them, but we have no reason to believe that he would intentionally twist the truth the way Caner did. And I have so far to find just one former Christian who became a Muslim (at least a prominent one) who deserves such a treatment.

Shiekh Yusuf Estes is not a liar or fake. Muslims don’t have people pretending to be exchristian. We don’t need to because we have real exchristians in our masjids

I think Ergun Caner has been exposed but the Christians don’t know because they have not seen this muslim blog page or mokhans pages. I think Muslims should get a reward for telling thwe truth about Ergun.

James said
I have never had any contact with these other men, and if someone says I have, they need to provide proof.

Are you saying you are not with sam shamoun? The link I showed proves you know and are friends with Sam Shamoun. Why you so silent about sam?

Why are you not exposing his lies or refusing to share shows with Sam Shamoun? If you were true scholar you would not be using his lies. Muslims caught you using his lies and you went quiet. Why so silent? Just admit it ands tell people sam is bad and not true.

I will say it is good you have not joined Walid and Kamal. I know christians are not trusting walid. walid evebn said he will wisj to send a nuclear bomb on muslims.

i think muslims should email their christian friends and tell them about the other fraudsters like kamal, walid, sam. It is good to see the true christians expose the fake ones.

Thanks for the good site and thanks for letting me comment and learn from this site

bye everyone

Yahya Snow said...

I had to split the conversation over 5 comments (see above).

For that reason it is easier to follow here

http://muslimmatters.org/2010/12/29/the-lives-and-stories-of-ergun-mehmet-caner/

The Fat Man said...

@Yahya Snow

Wow you just can't help yourself can you. The total deception, total dishonesty and out right lie.

You wrote in your post,
"White abandons the other trickster - Sam Shamoun
It looks like White is feeling embarrassed over the rabble rousers who he hangs out with. Shamoun was accused of being “worse” than Ergun Caner. White never defended him! He even seemed to claim he never knew him:

"I have never had any contact with these other men, and if someone says I have, they need to provide proof."

It is obvious that Dr White is talking about Shoebat and Saleem, not about Sam Shamoun. No were does he mention Sam Shamoun.

But that little fact doesn't bother you. You just put words in Dr Whites mouth.

Have you no shame sir. really this is bad even for you. I used to think there was nothing lower then whale dung, but now I'm thinking your beneath that.

Yahya Snow said...

@fatman,

Read th post again - I mention it is AMBIGUOUS!

I guess that small, yet crucial part fact was missed by you. Or rather you did it intentionally in an attmept to deflect attention away from White's LACK of a defense of Shamoun.

It was not obvious as White was quizzed on ALL THREE men.

Even you would have managed to put up a defense for Shamoun, yet his friend and colleague (White) recognized Sam Shamoun is a lost cause and any defenseof his lies only renders the one advancing the defense as insicnere.

Even you did not defend old Walid. Can you defend the fact thhat at times he claimed to bomb a bank, at other times he claimed not to and he was trumped by the Jerusalem Post which showed the bank had NO record of such an attack.

Even the most gullible will not swallow that yarn.

You ask, where does he menion Shamoun. Yes, where does he mention Shamoun - he doesn't becuase he knows Shamoun has a list of dishonesty longer than his arm.

Perhaps you will reach a new nadir and offer a defense for the aforementioned gentlemen...

Please do stop with the insults.

You KNOW I am more balanced than your "Christian" pals. You KNOW I am more honest than them too. But, in your denial you throw insults. I guess the idea of a MUSLIM corecting and bringing Christians to account is a little tough for you to handle. After all, you do believe they have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them - yet this "Holy Spirit" is not working too well for them in the honesty and sincerity departments.

Have you ever stopped to think they do not have a holy spirit guiding them? It's elementary my dear Watson.

It's a Ney Year and you have not changed, still insulting instead of thinking :(

Perhaps 2012 will be the year we shall see the change

Good night

Anonymous said...

"It was not obvious as White was quizzed on ALL THREE men."

It's not really a quiz if nobody takes it.

The Fat Man said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
The Fat Man said...

@Yahya Snow

Now here is a Muslim with some integrity, some honesty, and a lot of balance.

Egypt Massacre

"But most of all, I accuse the millions of supposedly moderate Muslims among us; those who’ve been growing more and more prejudiced, inclusive and narrow minded with every passing year.

I accuse those among us who would rise up in fury over a decision to halt construction of a Muslim Center near ground zero in New York, but applaud the Egyptian police when they halt the construction of a staircase in a Coptic church in the Omranya district of Greater Cairo.

I’ve been around, and I have heard you speak, in your offices, in your clubs, at your dinner parties: “The Copts must be taught a lesson,” “the Copts are growing more arrogant,” “the Copts are holding secret conversions of Muslims”, and in the same breath, “the Copts are preventing Christian women from converting to Islam, kidnapping them, and locking them up in monasteries.”

I accuse you all, because in your bigoted blindness you cannot even see the violence to logic and sheer common sense that you commit; that you dare accuse the whole world of using a double standard against us, and are, at the same time, wholly incapable of showing a minimum awareness of your own blatant double standard."

Anonymous said...

Fatman: Now here is a Muslim with some integrity, some honesty, and a lot of balance

What does that have to do with the topic of this post?

1moremuslim said...

James White posted a response on his blog defending his relation with Sam, I am just wondering why he didn't answer back in MuslimMatters website.
Of course, nothing about his erroneous copy paste from Sam unscholarly materials, nothing about his inconsistency, nothing about Sam's bad behavior against Shabir Ally.

I would suggest to you Yahya, next time you write something about James White, ( or any Christian polemist) don't mix clear facts with Ambiguous conclusions, because James white has a talent of deception, he will throw all your facts under the rug, and keep hitting your one ambiguous claim. At the end he seems to make a good case, without touching the real issues.

The Fat Man said...

@1MoreMuslim

Thanks for pointing to Dr Whites article. But I do find this interesting you advice the SNOWMAN

"I would suggest to you Yahya, next time you write something about James White, ( or any Christian polemist) don't mix clear facts with Ambiguous conclusions, "

So the SNOWMAN mixes clear facts with ambiguous conclusions but then you say "because James white has a talent of deception, he will throw all your facts under the rug"

So The SNOWMAN throws facts under the rug, and James White has a talent for deception. LOL WOW

Even when Muslims do the right thing they DO IT SO WRONG.

The Fat Man said...

@ Anonymous

The article is in reference to the SNOWMAN being so full of himself. I am demonstrating to him what it takes to have integrity, honesty etc... All characteristics he lacks.

The Fat Man said...

Dr White Cont...
"Sam has gotten into some spitting matches with some of the less level headed Islamic apologists in the past that I would have counseled him to avoid (such avoidance is not as easy as it sounds). I am not a clone of Sam, nor is Sam a clone of me, and that is how it should be. But I am well aware of the primary reason Sam Shamoun is hated so much by many of these folks: he has torn their arguments to shreds, and they know it."

Snowman he is talking about Sam, NOT YOU when he says "he has torn their arguments to shreds, and they know it."

Dr White Cont...
"So, just as some folks are still dancing about with pitchforks because I humorously noted the historical fact that Brigham Young's wives never entered the Mrs. Utah Beauty Pageant (they have nothing more substantive to argue but to feign offense at such things), these folks have to find something to throw Sam's direction, since they obviously cannot compete on the battlefield of truth. I have experienced the same thing many times.

So to the dishonest man who claims I threw Sam under the bus, I assure you, Sam could toss me a lot farther these days than I can him! Sam is a warrior, and it is simply beyond lying to say I did any such thing. The person who made this accusation has always been beneath notice due to an utter lack of honesty, integrity, and truthfulness, and will remain so. It is one thing to respond to the bad arguments common amongst Muslims. That is necessary. It is another to waste time responding to clearly dishonest individuals who seek only to twist every word you speak (or write)."

SNOWMAN just to be clear, you are the one he is refering to, when he says "beyond lying...beneath notice...utter lack of honesty, integrity, and truthfulness...clearly dishonest individuals". SnowMan I hope that clarify's Dr White's statements for you.

Radical Moderate said...

Dr White explained for Yahya Snow or Dr White for Dummies.

Dr White writes,

"I am going to do my best to make this the only time I even deign to make note of one of Islam's worst rabble-rousers. Some people do not deserve to be noticed due to their dishonesty and their inability to even attempt to pretend to act with a modicum of fairness. I was just directed to a blog post by a Muslim who quite simply lacks the ability to think logically, or to speak honestly. He has written to me in the past, and is, evidently, constantly seeking to get attention for himself, not by producing anything of any benefit or scholarly weight, but by exerting all his faculties to twist the words of others."

I know you have a problem with understanding what people write so I will break this down for you. Dr White is refering to YOU not Sam Shamoun "Islam's worst rabble-rousers...dishonesty...lacks the ability to think logically...not by producing anything of any benefit or scholarly weight...twist the words of others"

Dr White Continues

"At that, anyway, he is quite good (shallow, but prolific)"

Oh Wow he gave you a compliment. See everyone is good at something

Radical Moderate said...

Dr White for Dummies Part 2


Dr White CONT

" In any case, this Internet gadfly noted that I had responded to an article on Muslimmatters.org that repeated the falsehood that I had only responded to the Ergun Caner situation because Caner opposes "Calvinism." I have refuted this falsehood many times here on this blog. In the process, someone raised the issue of "others" who are alleged to be like Caner, and made the false accusation that I had appeared with these others when I had not. I am aware of accusations against these men, but unlike Caner, about whom I had first-hand knowledge (having communicated with Shabir Ally about his false claims to have debated him), I have no connection whatsoever with these other men, and little interest (let alone time) to be digging into their stories (most of which take place outside the US anyway). I hope others who have the time and ability and calling can determine the truthfulness or error of these claims, but it is not my calling to become the Big Policeman of Apologetics.

So our rabble-rousing Muslim writes a blog article claiming I threw Sam Shamoun "under the bus." How any rational person could read my comments and come to such a conclusion is beyond me. Our writer is either utterly irrational (which is possible), or dishonest, or both."

Although he does mention Sam Shamoun he is still talking about you and not Sam when he writes "Our writer is either utterly irrational (which is possible), or dishonest, or both." THATS YOU

Radical Moderate said...

Dr White for Dummies
Part 3

In any case, the man wasted time on his blog actually raising the possibility that I had claimed I had never met Sam Shamoun! What utter foolishness. I have had Sam on the Dividing Line, in studio even. I have appeared on ABN with Sam. I would love to do a two-man debate with Sam sometime against a two-man Muslim team. I have learned much from Sam, and he would say he has learned much from me.

Radical Moderate said...

Dr White For Dummies
Part 4

"So, just as some folks are still dancing about with pitchforks because I humorously noted the historical fact that Brigham Young's wives never entered the Mrs. Utah Beauty Pageant (they have nothing more substantive to argue but to feign offense at such things), these folks have to find something to throw Sam's direction, since they obviously cannot compete on the battlefield of truth. I have experienced the same thing many times.

So to the dishonest man who claims I threw Sam under the bus, I assure you, Sam could toss me a lot farther these days than I can him! Sam is a warrior, and it is simply beyond lying to say I did any such thing. The person who made this accusation has always been beneath notice due to an utter lack of honesty, integrity, and truthfulness, and will remain so. It is one thing to respond to the bad arguments common amongst Muslims. That is necessary. It is another to waste time responding to clearly dishonest individuals who seek only to twist every word you speak (or write)."

SNOWMAN just to be clear, you are the one he is refering to, when he says "beyond lying...beneath notice...utter lack of honesty, integrity, and truthfulness...clearly dishonest individuals". SnowMan I hope that clarify's Dr White's statements for you.

maratsafin said...

people who are not aware radical moderate and the fatman are one and the same,first of all people like james white do not even consider the likes of radical moderate christian,why?? because after barack obama becamse president james white made a video in which he stated that obama is not a christian, but radical moderate when he endorsed obama said people who thought obama was not a christian are ,and im paraphrasing fatman, more or less stupid. but that blog post has long since disappeared,hm i wonder why!!! you see radical moderate people like james white are intellectual extremists and they are more or less the same as shamoun, the way shamoun deals with muslims is the way mr white deals with catholics and mormons,he is arrogant,prideful and belittles peole. he ,like sam, pretends to win every argument and even thinks he destroys other peoples beliefs. thats why i stated in another comment here https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=248234931266550822&postID=4348585932587255062, that the only reason he is writing a anti-islamic book is because he has seen how much money and celebrity like status it has done to people like caner,saleem and shoewbat and he wants part of that slice of pie.
his dishonesty has been chronicled many times especially about Islam but this sint new he has done it to the the catholic faith as well. and when he is called for it he either restates his position or ignores it, this guy is a first rate fraud who dosent even hold a proper doctarate. his dishonesty is also directed against protestants as can be seen here http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/02/liar-liarjames-white-and-aom.html. like his sister has stated he has a massive ego and like shamoun cannot and will not admit when he is wrong. brother yahya the more he says stuff like you have no credibility the more encouraged you should be because lets remember it was muslims who first started exposing charlatans like showbat,saleem and caner and it will muslims who expose mr whites glaring inconsistency.

Anonymous said...

salam aliekum,

Brother Yahya I do agree with 1moremuslim's comment, but just for the fact that fake dr. james white mentioned this you are mashallah doing your job. Yes maratsafin fake dr white looks like he wants to move up the money ladder.
Keep up the good work. JAK

The Fat Man said...

@ maratsafin

Even if what you said was true, still doesn't change the fact that Yahya SNOWMAN is

"beyond lying...beneath notice...utter lack of honesty, integrity, and truthfulness...clearly dishonest individuals"

Yahya Snow said...

@ anonymous,

Yes, you are correct the advice offered by 1MoreMuslim is wise and beneficial.

Yahya Snow said...

@Fatman: beyond lying...beneath notice...utter lack of honesty, integrity, and truthfulness...clearly dishonest individuals

To impugn someone fairly on those charges you have be genuine, fair and accurate - White was neither.

White was being disingenuous in his use of something I stated was AMBIGUOUS. I said I was not sure whether he was referencing Sam Shamoun - this is clearly indicated in the comment section and by the words used in the blog post.

I even copied his comments into this post so others can DECIDE for themselves.

That's what you call honesty and fairness.

Sadly, White's anger at my blog post concerning his book got the better of him and led him to attack me based on a sneaky misrepresentation on his part.

All he has managed to do is misdirect his audience from his blunders highlighted on this blog (catalogued in the post about his book)

But these are facts for the honest...sadly the dishonest will refuse to see beyond White's superficial attack - an attack laced in malice

Another unedifying episode for the elder at Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church

These are people who want us to believe they are led by the "holy spirit".

I've lost even more respect for James White. Rather than dealing with the issues that matter he decided to impugn me without answering to the charges of shoddy and dishonest scholarship

May Allah guide us all

RefutingActs17 said...

Fat Man,

Why don't you leave Snow alone? All you have for him are insults - not very Christian like.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

James gave a great introduction to himself when he said,
"I am going to do my best to make this the only time I even deign to make note of one of Islam's worst rabble-rousers."

Sure... James don't be tempted to do so again eh? ;)

"Brother Yahya I do agree with 1moremuslim's comment, but just for the fact that fake dr. james white mentioned this you are mashallah doing your job." <AGREED!

White checks my site as well as Yahya Snow's almost every other day (truth be told).
He was quick to respond to my entry here:
http://www.acommonword.net/2010/06/james-white-withholds-debate-videos.html

with his own propaganda here: http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3996

Well, well well...after my entry our good "DR" White sure did get motivated to produce those Shabir Ally debates didn't he?

So if you don't have people like Yahya Snow and myself cracking the whip things will never get done around here!

All Yahya Snow has to say is 'Frog' and White will say 'How High'.

I have noted since Yahya Snow's arrival on the scene AM have been a little more quite....

Keep up the great work brother! May Allah reward you!

RefutingActs17 said...

Are you sure you're ready for a verbal battle? All you do is spew and sputter nonsense - running your mouth is what you do best. A clown that blindly follows his desires and puts his trust in people like Qureshi and Wood. It's Ok, I've dealt with more disingenuous personalities than you, perhaps even more wicked. What topic would you like to wrestle on? ;)

J. Abelene said...

The Fat Man,

It's "you're".

I pray you do not pretend to be a christian with the "SnowJob" comment, but it's clear you serve the god of perverse language with all of your posts.


And who referred to James R. White as a "Dr."? One must earn that title from an accredited school, not a diploma mill.

Anonymous said...

Does your complaint about someone calling another person "snowjob" also go for those, like Yahya, who call Sam and others "stooges"?

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