Monday, 6 May 2013

Latest: Ergun Caner is Back!

Ergun Caner in this recent clip from the John Ankerberg show is asked about Shariah and he tells us non-Muslim girls MUST date Muslim men when they are asked out by a Muslim. This is a complete lie. Muslims are not even allowed to date – nevermind forcibly date non-Muslim (Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Jewish etc) girls.

Ergun Caner Misleading about 'Shariah law'


Ergun Caner needs to stop presenting himself as an expert and he needs to take some medication to help him with his condition. John Ankerberg should stop inviting charlatans such as Ergun Caner and Emir Caner (he has recently been on the show too) as though they are experts. These people are charlatans!

One wonders what the likes of Peter Lumpkins will say about this episode.

Christians please stop hiring and supporting obvious frauds

PS What price on James White jumping on this one? We really can do without the double-standards of James White – if he is not willing to condemn the deceivers who happen to be his colleagues (Sam Shamoun, Wood, Pastor JospehNajm, Pastor Usama Dakdok and the other dishonest non-entities on ABN) then his words on Ergun Caner are hollow.

Related:

Is this Coptic Christian the new Ergun Caner?

Christians confused by 2 Corinthians 4:4

Born-Again Christian Became a Muslim

Do you want to convert or learn about Islam? See here:
http://thedeenshow.com/

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

WATCH--->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0FmSqEV6kw

John Ankerberg Ministries Covers Up for Ergun Caner: Christian Dishonesty

Published on 16 Jan 2013


Christian dishonesty and deception:

Controversy follows Baptist theologian to North Texas

by BRETT SHIPP

If there is such a thing as a controversial, lightning rod Baptist minister, then one is headed to North Texas.

Ergun Caner is the former head of Jerry Falwell's Liberty Baptist Seminary in Lynchburg, Virginia, and his claims of having terrorist ties have clouded his credibility — and perhaps his future.
Claims of being so hated that he once had to dodge oranges being hurled from the audience is not what you might expect to hear from the Dean of Theology at Liberty Baptist Seminary.

But it's part of the Ergun Caner mystique and legend... of having been raised a radical Muslim in Turkey and an enemy of America.
"I hated you," Caner can be heard saying in a 2006 address to a student audience now broadcast on YouTube. "That may be harsh, but as Dr. Hays told you, my training center was in Beirut."
Caner is also on record saying he was trained to be a terrorist at the time his family moved from Turkey to America in 1978.

Once in the United States, Caner said he converted to Christianity, then rose to national prominence after the September 11 terrorist attacks in 2001.

That's when religion blogger Tom Rich of Jacksonville, Florida first heard Caner's message.
"He said that he was trained to do that was done on 11 September, which means in no uncertain terms ,'I was trained to be a terrorist, I was raised to be a terrorist,'" Rich said.
But last summer, Caner's story started to unravel when skeptics found evidence that despite his claims, the self-proclaimed young Jihadist actually moved to America from Sweden in 1969 — not from Turkey in 1978. Caner grew up looking and acting like most every other kid his age.

The discrepancies proved so damaging that Caner was demoted at Liberty Baptist and is now headed to North Texas to become vice president at Arlington Baptist College, home to 200 students and to perhaps a not-so-welcoming staff.

One faculty member told News 8: "I find it reprehensible that the leadership of the Arlington Baptist College would hire a man who is very clearly profiteering from the tragedy of September 11."
Back in Florida, Tom Rich says giving Caner credibility takes it away from the entire church.

"It really calls into question of the integrity of the organization that he represents," Rich said. "It makes it harder to spread the Gospel to people when they know that Southern Baptists are actually not holding this guy accountable."

Caner did not respond to our requests for an interview, but he is on the record saying he's only guilty of uttering "discrepancies" and making "pulpit mistakes."
Arlington Baptist President Dr. Dan Moody declined an on-camera interview, but told us by e-mail:

"Dr. Caner has our full confidence, and we are excited about the future of our school. We consider all the controversy to be in the past, and we are moving forward with full confidence."

And while Liberty Baptist Seminary officials found Caner made "factual statements that are self-contradictory," the chairman of the panel that investigated him says, "We never once found that he lied."
What seems to be at issue now is whether his detractors can now find it in themselves to forgive.

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Anonymous said...

Yahya,

Tried to leave you a message via email but the email link you logged I could not get to work. My lack of internet skills obviously exposed I suppose.

Anyways, here's the content of my email.

==================================

Yahya,

Thanks for the "heads up." Your link you just posted on my site is precisely why I rarely take critics like yourself seriously. The post is entitled "Ergun Caner is back LYING!" with this follow up: "One wonders what the likes of Peter Lumpkins will say about this episode."

Three quick responses.

First, why presume Caner is actually lying? From my perspective, even if Dr. Caner is wrong about what he said, speaking falsehoods does not reduce to speaking lies. In short, Dr. Caner could be honestly mistaken about what he concluded from his reading of the Islamic position. While honest mistakes deserve correction and education, they do not deserve moral indictment. My granddaughter who is almost 4 years old began to count from 1-20. Before she got to twenty, she made several mistakes. I think she said, "...15, 17, 18, 20" or something similar. What do I do, Yahya? Do I say, "Sofie, you are a liar! It's not 15, 17, 18, 20. Now, you surely ought to be punished for lying!' Not on your life so far as I am concerned. All falsehood is not necessarily lying.

Yet you tacitly assume and publicly declare Caner is employing deception when the truth is he might only be reading something differently from you, something which very well might need to be corrected. Even so, your post here doesn't correct, Yahya. Your post morally indicts and absolutely condemns.

Second, what do you mean by the "likes of Peter Lumpkins"? I know how that phrase is typically used; it's used in a not-so-nice way to describe a person in an entirely negative sort of way. If that's the way you used it, why would you do so? Why hurl an insult at me when I'm just minding my own business? That's two people in the post you morally indict rather than correct or educate.

Third, what I think of Dr. Caner's statements is hardly relevant. I claim no expertise whatsoever in Islamic theology or thought. I know a little but surely what I know does not begin to connect to Shariah law, etc. So what can I say relevant to "this episode"? I would not know where to begin to challenge his statement. And, to be honest, I have no time and little reason to challenge it even after you've definitively declared "he's lied!" For my part, that's about all you and James White have been doing for the last several years now; i.e. "He lied!" So, what's new?

Instead I can say something relevant to your follow-up to "this episode": your post unnecessarily morally indicts Caner (not to mention me with your "likes of Peter Lumpkins" backdoor insult) with "lying" when you could just as well had showed his exact words and proclaimed something like, "I'm afraid Dr. Caner is just plain mistaken when he concludes Shariah law says of Muslim men who date non-Muslim women.... Why? A)... B)... C)..."

But no, the scholarly or more critically acceptable approach might have not been your cup of tea so to speak. Rather you make it a moral issue instead of an intellectual one--"Caner's a liar" and the "likes of Peter Lumpkins" will presumably defend Caner's lies.

No thanks, Yahya. I want no part of a conversation dependent upon moral insults continually hurled at me. James White seems hopelessly addicted to this approach (what I call the "you-sir-are-a-liar" tactic he continually employs against many of those whom he deems unworthy debate opponents) and for that reason alone I want no dealings with him either...

Thanks. May the Lord Jesus Christ set us all free from the law of sin and death...

Peter Lumpkins
Carrollton, Georgia USA

Yahya Snow said...

Hi Peter,

Thanks for taking time for the response.

Firstly, the 'I wonder what the likes of Peter Lumpkins will say' comment is not a slur at all. The 'likes of Peter Lumpkins' simply refers to friends and strong supporters of Ergun and Emir Caner. Please don't read an insult into such a statement.

As for accusing Ergun of 'lying'. Sure he could well be simply mistaken in his research. However, IF you present yourself as an expert (or are presented as such by John Ankerberg) one would expect you not to make ridiculous 'mistakes' such as these. Right? I mean how does an 'expert' not even know dating is not allowed in Islam?

Also, he does not cite any sources of jurisprudence to back his assertion up. No sources and a ludicrous claim which points to him being unaware of the basic prohibition of dating...for an expert...really?

However I may change the title to 'misleading'. Perhaps you can check with Ergun as to whether he was simply mislead(through ignorance) or lying? Will you do that Peter?

As for James White, yes he is very much an intense character who I feel lacks balance quite often.

I want you to go away with the message that I find it incredulous that somebody who is styled as an expert is making such statements. For him not to even know dating is haram (prohibited) is astounding.

I find it interesting that the only objection here is the choice of word. Yes, the word 'liar' is one that evokes strong emotions. We must remember Ergun very much has a history of deception. If we put 2 and 2 together on this...

I would also like you to move away from worshipping Jesus (p). Jesus is a Prophet of Allah. Allah is the only one who can guide us.

May Allah guide us all.

Yahya Snow said...

Also Peter I would like to point out to you, your comparison of your 4 yr old daughter with Ergun is a false one.

Quite simply, your daughter is not being touted as an expert - nor is she presenting herself as an expert. Ergun Caner is precisely that - an assumed expert (by Southern Baptist folk, John Ankerberg and anybody who purchases his books). Why else is he being invited on John's show if he is not being touted as an expert?

The excuse of ignorance of the basics is valid for your 4 yr old daughter, but for Ergun not to even know the basics is unacceptable. You must appreciate this, Peter.

I've been in the game a while now - I've come across some of the strangest Eastern Christians saying exactly what they think their white-American co-religionists want to hear (to ingratiate themselves with them and to make a bit of cash)...I have never heard Ergun's claim before. Ever!

You just don't come to such a claim by reading scholarly work on Islam. Where's Ergun getting his material from - it seems straight out of an anti-Muslim propaganda handbook.

If your theory of Ergun genuinely being mistaken is correct...then surely he has an ounce of sense to recognise it's a hefty claim (which sounds ludicrous) and it should be checked before even thinking of putting it out on a TV show?

Peter, here is an Eastern Christian who now lives in the USA who simply made this flase claim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HHXCeDmevk

This Eastern Christian has something in common with your Eastern Christian...they both have hstories of deception (like it or not...it's true)

Peter I would also like you to look into Islam. I will make sense of Jesus for you.

Thanks

Yahya Snow said...

it*

Anonymous said...

The person who should have some blame is the tv show persons. Why film with a guy who don't have a scooby bout the subject. Another one bites the dust.

John Smith said...

Lol James white.

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