This a response to the EPIC FAIL of a video by Steven Crowder in his desperate attempt to gain attention. It's always best to ignore such videos, especially since the whole "Islamaphobia" thing is getting old now, but in certain instances it's good to clarify where he went wrong in terms of the misconceptions he put forward.
JESUS V MUHAMMAD!! | MUSLIM RESPONSE | MISCONCEPTIONS
This video deals with the obvious criticisms of Islam and brings light to their reality.
1) The Marriage of Aisha with Muhammad (pbuh)
2) The issue of polygamy and multiple wives in Islam
3) The punishment of adultery in Islam
4) The concept of Jihad and fighting
5) The final words and death of Muhammad (pbuh) the best man to walk this Earth.
We will defend our beloved noble Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) until our last breaths. We are used to this already.
"They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it." Quran 61:8
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Links:
Barack Obama is a Christian, Jesus is a Muslim
Mary's age at time of betrothal to Joseph
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21 comments:
Yahya and Calling Christians
You guys need to watch this video to the end really you do.
Oh wow, I didn't know any Muslims were still using the "90 year old Joseph" argument. That is about as bad as it comes. Some rogue Catholic source said something like that back in the day, and there isn't even the slightest scintilla of evidence for it. Not to mention Jesus learned to be a carpenter from Joseph as is evident by the fact that he picked up his trade from his (adoptive) father as all Jewish children do. A 90 year old Joseph doing carpenter work? Please, that is just plain silly.
On another thread Yahya said this guy is "amazing." Muslims are easily dazzled.
Lebo2196 could let the "dislikes" of the video by crowder do the talking for him? There are almost 8,000 likes and a piddling 200 dislikes of Crowder's video. I guess the same reasoning that inflates Joseph's age to 90 at the time he wedded Mary is the same kind of reasoning that goes into thinking the dislikes come anywhere close to indicating that the video by Crowder has not been well received.
"Even in U.S. states you have states that allow [marriage at] 13, 14, and 15".
Yes, and if you cut the low ages above IN MORE THAN HALF, you have the age at which Muhammad married Aisha, a whopping 6 years old.
I notice that Lebo puts a blurb in the video saying that the proof of his assertion for Joseph being 90 at the time of his marriage to Mary can be found in Dale Allison's commentary on Matthew. This is as factually incorrect. Allison says nothing of the sort on page 12.
This man is "amazing"? Surely you are kidding?
Jake Blake
Are u shocked that a Muslim would distort facts, abuse sources, and down right LIE.
I'm not.
What would be shocking is for a Muslim to actually represent sources accurately and to be honest.
With so many errors this early in the video, I am not sure I can even stomache continuing to listen to this.
Lesbo also says at the end of his video that it is a great sin in Islam to disparage other peoples religion.
Guess he hasn't read Yahya Snow's, Paul Williams or even Calling Christians blog.
It actually looks like there is more than one copy of Crowder's video out there with different stats on the likes/dislikes.
There is so much wrong with this video. Do Muslims even look up Quran verses when a Muslim sites them lol
New advent encyclopaedia says 90 yrs old. Not saying this is true but Christian sources do mention age 90
Snowman Part 1
I hope you rebuke Lebo for making up Tasfir when he is obviously not qualified.
Lebo in the video uses two proof texts to say that the Quran sets the age of marriage.
The first is 24:59.
Lets examine this.
24:59 says
"And when the children among you reach puberty, let them ask permission [at all times] as those before them have done. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses; and Allah is Knowing and Wise."
Well it does say children of puberty should ask permission, but permission for what? Marriage? I think not.
Lets go back a verse to see what they are asking permision for.
Verse 58 reads
"O you who have believed, let those whom your right hands possess and those who have not [yet] reached puberty among you ask permission of you [before entering] at three times: before the dawn prayer and when you put aside your clothing [for rest] at noon and after the night prayer. [These are] three times of privacy for you. There is no blame upon you nor upon them beyond these [periods], for they continually circulate among you - some of you, among others. Thus does Allah make clear to you the verses; and Allah is Knowing and Wise."
So slave's before they reach puberty are to ask permission before they enter into the Muslim slave owner's presence on three occasions verse 58
Verse 59 then expands this to all children after they reach the age of puberty to ask permissions at all times before entering into the Muslims presence.
Ibn Kathir says on these verses...
"And when the children among you come to puberty, then let them (also) ask for permission, as those senior to them (in age)) meaning: when the children who used to seek permission at the three times of privacy reach puberty, then they have to seek permission at all times, i.e., with regard to those who are non-relatives, and at times when a man may be in a state of intimacy with his wife, even if it is not one of the three times stated above."
The next verse he used is 4:6
All though the verse says to test the "ORPHANS" until they reach marriageable age it does not say what that marriageable age is lol. But worse the verse like the previous one mentioned has nothing to do with the age of consent or the age of marriage.
Ibn Kathir.
"Allah prohibited giving the unwise the freedom to do as they wish with wealth, which Allah has made as a means of support for people. This ruling sometimes applies because of being young, as young people are incapable of making wise decisions. It also applies in cases of insanity, erratic behavior and having a weak intellect or religious practice. It applies in cases of bankruptcy, when the debtors ask that the property of a bankrupt person is put in escrow, when his debts cannot be paid off with his money. Ad-Dahhak reported that Ibn `Abbas said that Allah's statement,"
So neither of these verses have anything to do with the age of marriage or marriage at all.
Really do you guys even verify the nonsense that your fellow Muslims spew from their mouths. Or do you just here "Quran" and just nod your heads in agreement and say Takbir?
Snowman part 2
What is funny is that the quran actually gives orders on how to divorce a prepubest wife. Her ida period is 3 months the same for the one who has reached the age of menstruation.
And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease. Surah 65:4
Ibn Kathir commenting on this verse
"Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause"
So just make sure you wait 3 months to make sure your pre pubescent wives are not pregnant before divorcing them.
So lets re cap a few of the errors in this video in only the first few minutes.
First he misusses and abuses your quran to say that Islam sets the age of marriage. The two verses he sites have nothing to do with the age of marriage or marriage in general.
The first verse he uses is about asking permission to come into the presence of adults. The second has to do with giving orphans the right over their inheritance.
He then says that Joseph was 90 years old when he married Mary and sites some source. When we examine that source we find that it is complete untrue and fasle.
And he manipulates the number of dislikes on the original video.
So thats three errors well out right lies really with in the first few minutes of the video.
Simply amazing the desperation Muslims have when it comes to defending their prophet.
RadMod,
Please do not start with that 'islam allows prebuscent sex' nonsense. Those claims have long been discussed and refuted:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/jochen-katzs-sex-with-prepubescent.html
RadMod,
He uses the age of 90 as it is in Christian literature. The point you are missing is; if these Christians had no issue with such a (believed) age difference between Mary and Joseph then it's hypocritical to criticise age difference between Prophet Muhammed and Aisha.
As for the dislikes, you say he 'manipulated' them...says who? What was the intention behind that graphic - I doubt he was trying to convince us he was receiving thousands of dislikes literally.
As for him misusing the Quran...have you thought about asking him concerning his reasoning rather than accusing him without attempting to understand him?
Thanks
PS Radmod
I re-checked the brother's video...he is saying the prohibition is of consummation with those who haven't reached puberty.
As for the comment about Prophet marrying at 6, the consummation didn't happen at a later time - when her father considered her ready.
There's an interesting discussion from a scholar, sheikh Atabek on the age issue and related stuff. Search for it on this blog or on YT
Jake and RadMod, if you have time please look into this post and thread:
http://bloggingtheology.wordpress.com/2013/05/28/the-curious-case-of-the-missing-lamb/
Yahya
The man gave false information about having supporting evidence FOR Joseph being 90 years old. You have not answered this. Neither did you deal with the argument I gave AGAINST his falsely supported claim for Joseph's age.
The man misused two verses of the Qur'an to support his claims regarding marriage. As Moderate pointed out, neither verse is interpreted that way by your scholars.
He did attempt to put down Crowder's video on the false claim that the likes/dislikes speak for themselves.
Too many problems with this reply (and your attempt to rescue it). You might as well take it down.
Yahya Snow
Jake Blake is right, we have documented in the first few minutes of this video, miss use of your scripture, falsifying a source, and a mis leading and dishonest comment about the number of dislikes Crowder's video has received not to mention a fabricated graphic.
Serioulsy man you harp on James White for years because he mis used a source in a debate with Shabir Ally even though he explained his confusion.
I am agreement with Jake Blake just take the video down and quit embarrassing yourself and other Muslims.
Yahya Snow.
The man in the video said that the Quran prohibits pre pubescent marriage and sited two verses. NONE OF THOSE VERSES HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH MARRIAGE. NONE OF THOSE VERSES HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH FORBIDDING PRE PUBESCENT MARRIAGE.
Tell me Snowman if pre pubescent marriage is forbidden in Islam, then why is there a commandment on divorcing pre pubesent girls lol.
Doesn't allah know that you can not divorce a pre pubescent girl if you can not marry her in the first place?
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