Saturday, 24 July 2010

AnsweringIslam Angling for Debate?

Sam Shamoun has been traversing the internet for the last decade and throwing out empty debate challenges to anybody and everybody. Well, JibreelK has called him on his bluff. What does our “pal” Sam Shamoun do?

Yes, you guessed it, he loses his bottle.

Sam Shamoun is superficial personified. He likes to appear as an individual who everybody is frightened of debating; this is one of the reasons why he and his fans issue empty challenges to Yusuf Estes and Zakir Naik. Naik does not debate “no bodies” and Yusuf Estes does not debate at all. Thus, Shamoun is always going to get a negative response; he uses this negative response in order to misdirect his audience into thinking big Muslim personalities are quaking in their boots at the sight of Shamoun.

The truth is most people have never heard of Sam Shamoun and the Muslim debaters who have heard of Shamoun would not give Shamoun the time of day as he lacks domestication. Yes, you read correctly; he lacks domestication (i.e. he does not know how to behave in a civilized fashion).

It is a real shame Rex from IslamandFriends radio show is away and not covering this as this story would be right up his street and he would have taken the empty shell of Shamoun to task. Oh, did I say “empty”. Well it was empty until it was imbued with hatred, ignorance and a general affinity for the uncouth. Let us take glance at the latest episode between Jibreelk and Sam Shamoun.

JibreelK Agrees to Debate Sam Shamoun but Shamoun Develops Pangs of Cold Feet

JibreelK has AGREED to debate Shamoun on YouTube; one topic at a time.

If Shamoun is serious (after all he did challenge Jibreel) he should accept and begin the video dialogue. People are looking forward to it, I am looking forward to commentating on the discussion between the two of them. However Shamoun is being a party-pooper.

Not only is Sam Shamoun trying to back out, he is now seriously wasting Jibreel’s time (not to mention everybody else’s time). Think about it, if you were serious about dialogue/debate you would not be censoring the opponent’s comments and looking like an obstinate amateur in the process.

JibreelK confirms Shamoun’s censorship:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfd2iD2cizI&feature=channel



Jibreel: Sam Shamoun is not posting my comments on his channel. I wonder why?
Does everyone agree that he should be fair and post whatever I write. I have not insulted him, or used foul language. He has been changing the topics left and right, and I am just asking him to stick to our initial points. He can't do that. So, people watching, you are the judges, you are the oneswho are observing all this. Is he fair?

I have popped over to Shamoun’s page and I do not see any recent comments from JibreelK approved. Due to Shamoun’s heavy censorship it appears as though our pal, Shamoun, is having a conversation with himself!

Now ask yourself: If you are serious about debate are you going to censor the potential opponent’s comments? Welcome to the unorthodox world of Sam Shamoun!

This just shows Shamoun is a time waster. The fact that JibreelK is now forced to make videos to address Shamoun is testament to Shamoun’s time wasting abilities.

Sam, STOP wasting his time. Either allow his comments and debate him on YouTube or just scrap it and go back to dealing with kids on Pal Talk (right now that seems to be your level).

Here is a commentator levelling his disapproval at Shamoun’s tactics:

it seems like u dont want to let JibreelK's comments come through to ur page to have an even debate..this shows u dont know how to debate sham

Shamoun Becomes Down Right Pathetic

He disallows comments from the serious and well respected Jibreelk whilst allowing an abusive comment from a passerby:

May a thousand **** furiously **** your **** until your sphincter is turned into a gooey pink paste and you bleed out, Mr. Shamoun

I’m sorry, I don’t respect Shamoun’s actions. Shamoun is not serious and is simply wasting everybody’s time. Sam, before you send me messages to rebuke the commenter please watch Jibreel’s latest videos where he picks you apart on this issue. Sam, I am not some internet administrator but for the record I do condemn the comment and ask people to refrain from such uncouth discourse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfd2iD2cizI&feature=channel



Shamoun Pulls a Sad Stunt

He was censoring ALL the civil and worthwhile comments from Jibreelk and then pulls a disgraceful stunt in copying and pasting an abusive comment to his mother by a user named Jochenkatzz . Totally irrelevant! The discussion with JibreelK is concerning the debate and topics but Shamoun is hopping around like a grasshopper from one irrelevant topic to another and every now and again our Sam Shamoun leaps on something not too pleasant

Here is Sam Shamoun letting off steam:


Jibreel, are you really illiterate? Do you have A.D.D. since I know Nadir Ahmed does and admits to it? I ask because I haven't seen someone so incapable of comprehending a point. You are virtually illiterate which is why you keep making posts that humiliate both yourself and your false prophet. You simply aren't intelligent enough to understand what you read and hear.

Sam do you even know what “illiterate” means? I doubt it based on your application here. Sam why do you have this propensity to insult?

You have a habit of mentioning Nadir Ahmed, why don’t you go back to debating him on Pal Talk? Has he blacklisted you?

Here is the interesting bit:

You are virtually illiterate which is why you keep making posts that humiliate both yourself and your false prophet

Sam is willing to post insults to his mother and insults to himself but NOT willing to post these phantom comments which “humiliate” JibreelK. Sam, we all really believe you (sarcasm)

Sam, wake up. You are portraying yourself in a poor light. Here is a YouTuber commenting on the dialogue:

Jibreel man, I pray that God protect and bless you and your family, I really love the way you remain levelheaded and calm when arguing with Samand the likes of him

Here is another person commenting on Sam Shamoun:

That's the only way he is capable of defending himself. He has no counter dispute, he doesnt have sufficient information to debate. I feel like he is trying to get under your skin. He makes no sense and doesn't have a platform. People like that.. should be ignored. Allah knows best. Allah yehdeekum.

Here is another one for good measure:

sam shamou clearly doesnt follow his own religion if he speaks with vaulga lanaguge
dude is 40ish years old and acts like that

ps there guy doesnt make sense

I Don't Understand Sam Either: He is Life's Enigma

Jibreel: Wow man, you are amazing I mean I am posting my comments to ask you to stay on track with our discussions, then you are changing the topic left and right, then you say the above statement which is the core of your mission, and that is why we don't debate live with you... you censor and you control things which way you want. Now do you have enough guts to post this. I will post this comment on my section.

Sam did not post this comment or any recent comment by Jibreel. The comments from Jibreel which are displayed in this blog posting are fished from JibreelK’s YT page. Jibreel responds to Shamoun’s comments and his “grown up terrorist” jibe (appendix 1)

Shamoun still does not get it or is playing dumb for his audience:

Ayas, the sham is you and Jibreelk. I have been BEGGING Jibreelk to debate but he only manages to make up his excuses for being the coward that he is. Please tell him to accept my debate challenge to callow in the show and have several formal debates with equal time and cross examination. Then you will see this fraud for what he is.

This has already been covered by Jibreel. Jibreel wants to have a nice, long and beneficial dialogue on YouTube (one topic at a time). Jibreel HAS AGREED to debate Sam. Sam knows this but likes to use his show as a stumbling block and a tool for misdirection.

Sam YouTube is better for debates/dialogues than your “show” or Pal Talk room. The reasons why Jibreel wants to dialogue on YT is to eliminate debate tactics

1 YT has more potential viewers
2 YT allows audience participation, thus aiding truth-seeking
3 YT is free and widely available as well as reputed and recognised
4 YT suits serious dialogue better than your show and Pal Talk room

Of course, Sam you already know this, you are simply looking for a route to back out of the debate because you know a YT debate nullifies debate tactics and misdirections. You also know your brother, Christian Prince, has struggled on YouTube. Actually, “struggled” is one of those nice soft words, let’s be frank your pal was torn apart. His latest crazed stunt was to make up his own Biblical verse – stuff of a circus act indeed.

So Sam, Please Agree To Debate Jibreelk on YouTube

SAM STOP BEING UNREASONABLE:

Secondly, don't make demands on me since I am not your dhimmi nor your slave. It is you who needs to start answering questions otherwise you go on the ignore list... continued

Jibreelk, do I need to block you since your illiteracy is disgusting me? Seriously, you are becoming a virus. Did you get all my messages? Did you get the message that Keith is going to be producing video replies to expose your pathetic replies which only grossly distort my arguments? Did you get my challenge to you to set up debates on the show Jesus or Muhammad (www.abnsat.com)? DO YOU ACCEPT? If so send me a reply saying you accept to do debates on the show concerning various topics, beginning with your god being Satan, followed by a debate on Muhammad mistreating Sawdah and using his god to justify it. We can then discuss the whore house you call paradise and Muhammad prostituting women calling it muta. I will contact the studio to set these debates up. For once be a man and stand up to defend your prophet.

Sam, Jibreel has already discussed the claims around Sawda, he is willing to discuss muta and the “whore house” claim. Please quit insulting him. Sam, anybody with half a brain can see he is coming off better than you

Jibreel writes:


Sam Shamoun is not posting my comments on his channel. I wonder why?
Does everyone agree that he should be fair and post whatever I write. I have not insulted him, or used foul language. He has been changing the topics left and right, and I am just asking him to stick to our initial points. He can't do that. So, people watching, you are the judges, you are the ones who are observing all this. Is he fair?

Well, Jibreel, I can only apologise for Sam Shamoun’s shoddy behaviour towards you. He certainly has not been fair or willing. He sees to be doing everything possible to back out of a serious YT debate whilst simultaneously using his show to feign confidence. It is transparent for all to see

Jibreel, Sam knows YT is a graveyard for shoddy argumentation and he lacks confidence in putting his bread and butter arguments as well as his more infamous polemics on the line.

In a nutshell, Sam is in a state of panic whilst feigning confidence in the presence of his loyal followers. Sam’s supporters have been dwindling for quite some time now…he is a sinking ship.

A YouTube dialogue series with JibreelK will see Sam Shamoun submerged and slowly drop to the sea bed and rest alongside his brother Christian Prince.

KeithTruth to the rescue?

At the behest of Sam Shamoun KeithTruth enters the fray:

ibrealk, I know you have been waiting for a reply. Sam had asked me to do so a long time ago and provided me with material. I told him I would do so since I know how to edit videos but I have had lots going on. So, do not get the wrong impression - your garbage will be refuted and is in the process of being assesed. By next tuesday there will be a series rebuting your position.

Keith, you call Jibreel’s work “garbage” yet you have been busy as you “have had lots going on”. Jibreel’s video series is pretty lengthy and as a newcomer who has “had lots going on” I doubt you have viewed his material. If so, what gives you the right to call his material garbage?

Keith, it does not require fancy editing…all it requires is for Sam Shamoun to speak on the mic….it is a debate on YouTube thus audio is key not fancy editing. Sam Shamoun should get on the microphone and get the ball rolling.

Sam begin the conversation with John 3:16…Jibreel has been trying to redirect your attention back to this topic for an eon. Sam, do the honourable thing and accept Jibreel’s challenge and take part in the YT discussion/debate with Jibreel.





Appendix 1:

Just to refute some nonesense:
Let's be clear, Paul is not mentioned in the Quran please see:

http://yahyasnow.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/is-paul-mentioned-in-the-quran/


Jibreelk's YT page for all his other vids:
http://www.youtube.com/user/JibreelK

My analysis of Sam Shamoun's previous encounter with Jibreelk:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/07/debate-untangling-sam-shamoun-and.html

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

Has Sam Shamoun ever contributed to any articles in relevant scholarly journals, like the Journal of Near Eastern Studies (published by the University of Chicago) or the Journal of Islamic Studies (Oxford University)? Presumably not. I wonder if this guy is what his fans make him out to be, some sort of a big shot Islamic scholar, then why doesn't his works appear in actual academic places?

Ali said...

well one academic sources won't quote inaccuracy/lies and two they especially wont go to haters. i believe whats bothering shamoun is no one's taking his work seriously so he comes onto blogs and attacks everyone. though i know for sure the acts 17 team condones his behaviour. by the way i was on their facebook page. they're spreading lies on how they were "wrongfully" arrested. these christians are nothing but desperate morons trying to get attention by defaming islam and promoting christianity.

Yahya Snow said...

@anon

Sam Shamoun has not contributed anything to the scholarly world

His fans consist of anti-muslim types who have adopted a similar manner to Sam Shamoun

I dislike the way they make out Naik/Estes etc are afraid of them...the truth is more nearer them never having heard of Shamoun and co.

Yahya Snow said...

Here is the first part of a three-parter from Beholder on YT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpgsetg63lI&feature=channel

Yahya Snow said...

@Ali

Nabeel is very quiet over Shamoun's recent behaviour yet they took him to ISNA on a few weeks ago.

Yet our Nabeel wants us to believe he loves Muslims...actions speak louder than words

Anonymous said...

Nobody wants to debate disgusting haters like shamoun who lack any kind of respect. Debates are for humans.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of the academic world, has anyone noticed that it has been well over 10 years and Jay Smith is still pursuing his PhD? I suppose his thesis gets rejected everywhere.

Yahya Snow said...

@ANON
I believe he is a Reverend now

I've never ever posted anything about Jay...

1moremuslim said...

I am blocked from commenting on many Christians, it happens that all of them are from the Acts17 Blog. Amazing coincidence! All I was doing is ask question on their youtube channels, when they don't know the answer they block people.
mkvine, keithtruth and others practice censorship systematically, and yet they say they are for freedom of speech.

Ali said...

1moremuslim the same happened to me. i exposed David Wood on honour killings, he got so embarassed he erased my messages and blocked me. and you know what else? those christians on his blog were praising him for blocking me!!!
fortunately i recorded and saved the entire thing so i still have it all that happened.

Anthony Rogers said...

No one is blocked on my blog (and I also write for the AM blog). But that isn't necessarily to be taken as a petition to come over there and comment, though you are free to. The fact is I don't make new posts very often on my blog so comments and visitors are less frequent (though I almost always respond to someone who comments). Perhaps in the future I will do more on the blogging front (on my own blog, that is).

Personally I like writing full scale articles for Answering Islam, and when I have something I think is blog worthy I put it on the Answering Muslims blog rather than on my own.

Ali said...

anthony where can i find your blog? and it's good to hear you arent like those freedom of speech hypocrites on answering muslims.
PS anthony what do you think of that church who's promoting "burn a Quran day"? didn't see anything on answering-islam, answeringmuslims, jihadwatch or atlas shrugs condeming this horrid action. just like to hear from you.

Anthony Rogers said...

Ali,

Of course I wasn't suggesting that David and Nabeel are hypocrites.

There is a difference between the right to speak freely in public, and the right of individuals to decide who can or cannot speak in venues they own or have administrative authority over.

In America it is not a free speech violation if I tell a god-hating atheist he can't blaspheme in my house and that he must hit the road until he learns how to speak rightly about his Maker.

The sort of thing I object to is when people like Yahya censor comments not because of anything I am doing to violate the "rules of the house", but simply because they do not have an answer to what is said or perhaps because they don't want others to see what was said since it exposes them.

As for a church burning the Qur'an, it is not something I would do. I do know that it is the sort of thing that routinely takes place throughout Muslim lands. Hopefully you wouldn't engage in such.

In the end, though, I think we all have to grant that someone's book is going to burn. Right?

My blog is: Semper Paratus

Yahya Snow said...

Anthony...where and when were you censored of late?

Anthony Rogers said...

Aside from erasing an entire blog post instead of just doing an update that would preserve the original comments, you have not censored me within the last week. However, you did erase at least one of my posts in the not too distant past, something Anonymousing brought to your attention, and I have seen a handful of other posts that say "deleted by a blog administrator."

Nevertheless, I mostly just wanted to make it clear what it was I was criticizing in the more remote past when I made reference on those occasions to censorship and/or free speech.

All in all, I think your practice has gotten better, but it could still stand some improvement.

mkvine said...

Hey Yahya,

I think you may have misunderstood what Sam was saying. This whole time Sam was challenging JibreelK to a LIVE debate, preferably on the show ABN. To my knowledge, Jibreel has never accepted that challenge and wanted to do videos on youtube instead. Also, Sam has also challenged you to a Live debate but I'm not aware of you accepting or rejecting his challege.