A Christian Islamophobic blog latched on to the news article of an imam in Stoke on Trent (UK) being charged for sex offences carried out against young boys. Predictably, there was no regard for sensitivities but merely a desire, on the part of the haters, to capitalise on the news article.
The hateful blog attracts, and is associated with some, real zealous Islamophobes complete with Halloween outfits. Here is a Christian lady (Tizita) commenter:
Tizita said...
You know what if the media will expose these atrocities like it does with the Catholic church then I believe 100% that the abuse with muslims outweighs the abuse with the Catholics!
I will not be surprised since i know what the haideth and the quran allow regarding sex with women, and young boys. Sick!!
A dose of truth for Tizita
Muslims are not instructed to sexually abuse men, women, children or anything else for that matter!
Please stop with the bigotry, Tizita. I would advise you to read all the Islamic evidences AGAINST the deviant sexual practices, of the sort this imam is charged with, in the book entitled Islam on Homo-sexuality by Mufti Zafeeruddin. Here is a quick excerpt to do away with your misguided comments:
It has been narrated by Hadrat Abu Huraira(ra) and Hadrat Abdullah ibn Abbas(ra) that the Prophet (p) said in one of his sermons:
A man who mishandles (sexually) a woman, a lad or a man would be resurrected with more stink than a putrid body, on Doomsday. People would be greatly distressed by his obnoxious odour, till he is thrown into the Hell. God will destroy all his (good) deeds and would not accept any recommendation or payment for him. He would encase him in a box of fire secured with iron nails which would pierce his face and body
Hadrat Abu Huraira(ra) states:
That this would be the punishment for those evil-doers who are not favoured with repentance
[See Pg79-80, Islam on Homo-sexuality by Mufti Zafferuddin, Daul Ishat]
Note to Tizita, I have NO idea what you have been reading to think this sort of deviancy is allowed in Islam; rest assured, you have not been reading Islamic material – perhaps you have been reading hoaxes from shoddy missionary websites. If you want people to think you have read some hadith literature you would be counselled to spell “hadith” correctly.
Answering Muslims Blog
Now, I know the owner of the blog has presented sexual lies about Islam in order to demonise Muslims – perhaps her bigotry is due to her being fed nonsense from David Wood and other deceptive Islamophobes or perhaps her bigotry is due to some other reason.
Please stop and think, Tizita.
And here are two miscreants we have caught spreading sex hoaxes about Islam – how many Christians have they deceived with their brand of shoddiness
More info on the hoax these charlatans were advocating:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/search/label/Thighing%3F
Oh, seen as one of those associated with that Islamophobic blog has previously claimed Islam allows sex with animals, I will tell you he was telling fibs – bestiality is considered a sin in Islam. It’s quite astonishing to investigate the ways Christian Islamophobes will befool and beguile their co-religionists. Do they really want us to believe they are led by the Holy Spirit?
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32 comments:
Yahya Snow
Showing the hypocrisy of Muslims again. Where was your outrage your condemnation when more then one Muslim said on your own blog that they have "Thousands of articles on sexual abuse by priests"? Even blaspheming and saying the Holy Spirit causes them to do this.
Yahya bottom line is this, you guys have a problem with sex abuse in Islam. It's coming out now. Not in Islamic countries, but in the WEST were people are free.
Just like the Catholic church who tried to cover this up for decades, you Muslims are going to face your own cover up, coming soon.
Get your head out of the sand man, your own children are suffering every-time you Muslims ignore it or even claim it doesn't happen. Pedophiles go where the children are, so if there are children in Islam there are pedophiles.
You Muslims who deny this or say it's not a problem, or point the finger at others and say "look at what your doing, we're not as bad", are responsible for the abuse of these children.
You enable the pervert, and prevent the victim from coming forward. Is your Islamic honor so precious that you can sacrifice the innocents of your own children?
Muslims could face a child abuse scandal on a par with the Catholic Church, a report has warned BBC
"Yahya bottom line is this, you guys have a problem with sex abuse in Islam"
Every community throughout the world has this problem FatMan, from North America to China. Christian communities have this problem as do Jews, Hindus, Seikhs, Muslims, Taoists, Buddhists, Secular Humanists, Agnostics etc etc.
I as a Muslim have never turned around and used the Catholic Church scandal as a platform to pour scorn upon the Christian community. I'm sure that some Muslims have, however, this is what sets me apart from a person like yourself.
I would never look at the bad behaviour of a single person and use that to blacken the name of the community that person belonged to. That to me just seems wicked beyond belief and completely unfair.
You are here, with your axe to grind, not because you care about the children involved in these incidences but because you want to revel in this opportunity to gloat and heap scorn upon the Muslim community.
You and David Wood are a match made in Heaven. Your comments over the Uzbekistan article and this issue, amongst many others, has shown me and everyone else on this blog that you are devoid of true empathy for the suffering of your fellow men and women.
Truth is I feel very sorry for you.
British Report: Pedophilia Culturally Acceptable in Southern Afghanistan
I would rather not continue posting on these issues, but I feel that the issues must be brought to light, for two reasons. First, Muslim leaders will often only deal with an internal problem if the problem gains worldwide attention. Second, it's common for Western Muslims to employ what we might call an "Argument from Moral Superiority," which runs something like this: "Morality among Muslims is vastly superior to that among non-Muslims. This must be due to the religion. Hence, Islam is the religion that promotes the highest morality. Clearly, the religion that promotes the highest morality must be the true religion." There are numerous problems with this argument. The main problem is that there is a tremendous amount of immorality in the Muslim world, and Muslims often refuse to do anything about it.
Paedophilia 'culturally accepted in south Afghanistan'
Older, powerful men boosted their social status by keeping boys as sexual playthings and the practice was celebrated in song and dance, a military study claimed.
British officers in Helmand requested the study to help them understand the sexual behaviour of locals and Afghan comrades after young soldiers became uneasy they were being propositioned.
American social scientists employed to help troops understand the local culture reported that homosexual sex was widespread among the Pashtun ethnic group in southern Afghanistan.
Strict separation of men and women, coupled with poverty and the significant expense of getting married, contributed to young men turning to each other for sexual companionship.
"To dismiss the existence of this dynamic out of desire to avoid western discomfort is to risk failing to comprehend an essential social force underlying Pashtun culture," the report said.
The study, called 'Pashtun Sexuality', said that as well as willing sex between young men, "boys are appreciated for physical beauty and apprenticed to older men for their sexual initiation".
The practice of 'bache bazi' or boy play, is known throughout Afghanistan, but is particularly renowned in the city of Kandahar next to Helmand, where prepubescent boys are widely admired.
Western soldiers often report feeling unease at the attentions of their Afghan comrades, who are affectionate with each other and sometimes wear make-up. (Read more.)
FATMAN here, to lazy to log in.
"I as a Muslim have never turned around and used the Catholic Church scandal as a platform to pour scorn upon the Christian community." Says THE ANONYMOUS Muslim.
Well assuming that is true, one doesn't have to look to hard to come up with MANY Muslims including some on this very blog who are quite proud of the fact that their Blogs contain "THOUSANDS" of articles on Priest Sex abuse. They even go as far as to say "Its the holy spirit" who is causing priests to do this.
What I find funny is that Muslims including the blog owner, claim that Islam is MORALLY SUPERIOR to Christianity. They then point to the failings of MEN, to priest sex abuse scandal, homosexuality, drinking, etc... and say see we don't have that in our societies.
Then when it is pointed out that YOU DO HAVE THIS IN YOUR SOCIETIES, all of a sudden we are evil for pointing this out.
Oh the hypocriticy.
@TheFatMan
When Muslims comment on such issues they should do so with sensitivity and compassion for the victims. It should not be used as a platform to throw mud at Christians.
The issue that some Muslims may have with the Catholic church has been the way it has been hushed up from the very top. There is no ecclesiatical hierarchy within Islam and so when such issues are swept under the carpet in our community they are done so on an individual/familial level.
But either way, and it is important not to lose sight of this, there is no excuse for such acts regardless of context as they are clearly against the teachings and essence of both our traditions. This is the most important thing to remember.
Neither side should be using these sad episodes as a platform to throw mud. It does not help interfaith cooperation one little bit.
I would, however, like to see more Christians challenging the likes of Sam Shamoun and David Wood when they tell outrageous lies about prophet Muhammad (saws). Such actions are harmful to fruitful dialogue.
TheFatMan - would you be willing to stand up and call your co-religionists out over the thighing hoax? No one is telling you to accept Muhammad (saws) as a prophet, we just ask that you adhere to the highest ideals of your faith - the last time I heard, lying was still a sin in Christianity.
Finally, when Muslims claim that Islam is morally superior to Christianity they are speaking about ideals. Though Islam is often betrayed by Muslims, its truth is never forgotten. What you need to recognize is that when Muslims make this claim they are saying that ISLAM is perfect, they are not saying that all Muslims are.
That is the difference.
Enjoy the silence
Anonymous said...
"When Muslims comment on such issues they should do so with sensitivity and compassion for the victims. It should not be used as a platform to throw mud at Christians."
Well they don't and they do use it for that reason.
You said...
"I would, however, like to see more Christians challenging the likes of Sam Shamoun and David Wood"
Yeah I'm sure you would like to see FITNA between Christians.
You said...
"TheFatMan - would you be willing to stand up and call your co-religionists out over the thighing hoax?"
I have seen no evidence that it is hoax. Second I have heard from SHIA Muslims themselves who have verified this to me. They claim it is practiced by a deviant sect of Shia Islam. But none the less it is still real enough to even disgust
Shia Muslims. I have also seen Sunni Muslims use this against Shia.
You also said...
"Finally, when Muslims claim that Islam is morally superior to Christianity they are speaking about ideals. Though Islam is often betrayed by Muslims, its truth is never forgotten. What you need to recognize is that when Muslims make this claim they are saying that ISLAM is perfect, they are not saying that all Muslims are."
I'm afraid I find nothing moral about Islam. Even if it was "Morally Superior" it would still fail as it does not provide a means for atonement. Your "Moral Superiority" is nothing but pride "filthy RAGS" so therefore Islam fails just on that alone.
We Christians are not "morally superior", as a matter of fact we are taught just the opposite, we are made perfect not because of anything we have done, but because of Christ, who he is and what he has done. Man is sinful and God is holy. Man is fallen and CHRIST HAS RISEN. We are to serve, not be served, to be last so that we shall be first.
A religion whose followers think they're "the best of creatures" or "Morally Superior" will mistreat others because they think of them as inferior and de-humanize them
Thank you come again.
@Fatman,
I noticed you never passed this pot oer to Tizita - I guess rebuking someone is tantamamoun to upsetting the apple-cart.
We also look forward to your rebukes of Wood and Shamoun.
Fatman, I agree with the anonymous commenter who distanced him/herself from using the sex scandals in churches in a fashion to degrade other Christians.
The sad and inconsistent element is that you and your pals do exactly that - you are the chap who seems to delight in terrorist attacks or sexual perversions stemming from an isolated gropu of deviants in the Muslim community (generally from backwaters in thrid world Muslim countries)...
Do you not see the double standard here?
On this blog you will not find any copy and paste articles of priests etc.
So you should discuss this with whoever has "1000s" of articles on such subjects - assuming you did not make it up!
You have seen no evidence it is a hoax? Stop playing dumb. Saudi scholars have confirmed it is a hoax! This is a fact presented on this very site. our pals to respond..they will not!
One day in the life as a lion is better than 1000 as a sheep. Be brave and upset the apple-cart by taking your pals to task over their lies. At least get them to answer for themselves.
I shall not hold my breath in waiting for you to pass this rebuke over to Tizita and for you to quiz your pals over their past hoax-purveying.
The fact Shamoun and Wood have gone all silent is tacit admission it is a hoax and they know it. Please stop with the playing dumb charade.
Go and ask y
I don't get this about you..we discuss theological issues with you and you jump to politics and then when you start losing the dialogue concerning politics you jump back to theological issues. You are now presenting Jesus as God even thogh this has been disproven.
I look forward to you forwarding me the links to your debates - they must be awfully scattered. Why are you so slow in bringing them to my attention? Did you do yourself a disservice?
yahyasnow@hotmail.com
Oh last point..
Fatman: A religion whose followers think they're "the best of creatures" or "Morally Superior" will mistreat others because they think of them as inferior and de-humanize them
Do you believe you are guaranted salvation whilst the non-christians are destined for Hell? Do you believe God (in the person of the Holy Spirit) is dwelling within you whilst not dwelling in non-christians?
Inconsistent? Yes!
Enough said
Part 1
@ Yahya Snow said...
"I don't get this about you..we discuss theological issues with you and you jump to politics and then when you start losing the dialogue concerning politics you jump back to theological issues."
A couple of things first when have I ever lost a argument? Even Muslims on paltalk have said "Radical Moderate can win a argument even when he is loosing"
So I am wondering when have I ever lost a argument on this blog. Case in point my recent exchange with Sam1528, he accused me of "Loosing this argument" funny he never addressed my argument. So how can I loose something that I never argued.
As far as jumping between politics and religion. I find this interesting, on more then one occasion you said words to the affect that I prefer politics to religion. I never and still don't understand that since I exegete more then one passage with you and others on this blog as well as in email.
Sir I respond to what is presented on this blog. If you or others jump between religion and politics then I have to respond to that. Also Islam is not just a religion remember it is a "complete way of life" so that encompass's politics as well. You can not talk about Islam with out talking about politics.
@Yahya Snow part 2
So if you want to know about me here it is.
I have many interest's. I love astronomy(I have a 10 inch refractor).
Politics(I am Radicaly Moderate a card caring member of the Republican Party a Lincoln Republican).
Religion(I am a Protestent Christian with strong leanings to words 5 point Calvanism),
Science(Every kind of science from M theory to biology. Wanna see my colonoscopy pictures and video's I find the inner workings of the human body fasinating),
History(Rome, US Civil War, WW1 and WW2, are my favorites. But I am branching out into Church History as well as Chinese and Pre Columbian).
Music(HEAVY METAL, but my first love is Chicago Blues , as well as I'm a x Dead Head, ran away from home at 16 to go on tour. Love classical, even Italian and Spanish Opera, but I really love Vogner. I also love Country, real country like Johny Cash. Meryl Hagart, and of corse I love that old 70's FUNK.)
Computers(I"M a IT nerd, learned COBOL, JCL and OOP at University. But work in Network infrastructure. Wanna discuss AD or NDS permisions? Logparser, what about Powershell, or Fierce,NESSUS, Packet Crafting, packet injection I love BT4, AIR CRACK, oh how about the whole ITIL process?)
Used to be into Judo, and Shari Rue Animal styles, but that was back in the day.
Sports (Baseball played short stop and left field, but I like Football real football, not that sissy soccer you guys play. Archery (avid bow hunter), Fishing( I'm a catch and release guy except when it comes to Lake Michigan COHO, Chanuk Salmon or Steal Head Trout).
Cooking,( just made some Venesin Chili and tomorow Venesin Sauerbraten)
Beer (I make my own beer, Ales only don't have the tempeture control for a Larger.)
Gun owner (I prefer my Remington 870 12 to any fancy over and under you European's can produce. I'm revolver guy not a semi auto, and I like the AK model better then I do the M16 or any variant that comes from that design. I also have a homemade Hawking rifle, as well as a nice set of Dueling pistols. Which need to be re done since I stained them when I was in the 8th grade. I think I can do better now.
So anything else you want to know? :)
@TheFatMan
I Said...
"When Muslims comment on such issues they should do so with sensitivity and compassion for the victims. It should not be used as a platform to throw mud at Christians."
You replied...
"Well they don't and they do use it for that reason."
So can I infer from this reply that you believe it is wrong to do this? If so, then perhaps you should stop the mud slinging in this regard as well.
I said...
"I would, however, like to see more Christians challenging the likes of Sam Shamoun and David Wood"
You replied...
"Yeah I'm sure you would like to see FITNA between Christians."
So when you call on Muslims to condemn the behaviour of other Muslims this is what you have in mind?
So basically, no matter what the behaviour (in this case blatant lies and defamation of religion) you will arbitrarily stand by your co-religionists rather than speak out for the truth.
In both cases it seems that you hold Muslims to a higher standard than you do yourself and your Christian brethren - why?
I said...
"Finally, when Muslims claim that Islam is morally superior to Christianity they are speaking about ideals. Though Islam is often betrayed by Muslims, its truth is never forgotten. What you need to recognize is that when Muslims make this claim they are saying that ISLAM is perfect, they are not saying that all Muslims are."
You replied...
"I'm afraid I find nothing moral about Islam. Even if it was "Morally Superior" it would still fail as it does not provide a means for atonement. Your "Moral Superiority" is nothing but pride "filthy RAGS" so therefore Islam fails just on that alone."
I have known many deeply spiritual Muslims of exemplary moral character. Men and woman who are vastly superior to myself in all instances. Never once have I seen their clear superiority over others manifest as arrogance or haughtiness. To be morally superior is to be devoid of 'pride' in the sense that you use the word.
Your reply continued...
"We Christians are not "morally superior", as a matter of fact we are taught just the opposite, we are made perfect not because of anything we have done, but because of Christ, who he is and what he has done. Man is sinful and God is holy. Man is fallen and CHRIST HAS RISEN. We are to serve, not be served, to be last so that we shall be first."
Again you have conflated the tradition with its adherents. For a Muslim, Islam is the 'religion' given to mankind by Allah (swt)...
[Qur'an 5:3] “This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”
God has chosen Islam for mankind because it is the best system by which to live your life. Therefore, because it is God given, we believe that it is morally superior.
Don't you (as a Christian) believe that the Christian tradition is superior in all aspects as a religion and way of life, or is it just one that exists on a level playing field amongst many others, such as Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism and......Islam?
@TheFatMan
I Said...
"When Muslims comment on such issues they should do so with sensitivity and compassion for the victims. It should not be used as a platform to throw mud at Christians."
You replied...
"Well they don't and they do use it for that reason."
So can I infer from this reply that you believe it is wrong to do this? If so, then perhaps you should stop the mud slinging in this regard as well.
I said...
"I would, however, like to see more Christians challenging the likes of Sam Shamoun and David Wood"
You replied...
"Yeah I'm sure you would like to see FITNA between Christians."
So when you call on Muslims to condemn the behaviour of other Muslims this is what you have in mind?
So basically, no matter what the behaviour (in this case blatant lies and defamation of religion) you will arbitrarily stand by your co-religionists rather than speak out for the truth.
In both cases it seems that you hold Muslims to a higher standard than you do yourself and your Christian brethren - why?
I said...
"Finally, when Muslims claim that Islam is morally superior to Christianity they are speaking about ideals. Though Islam is often betrayed by Muslims, its truth is never forgotten. What you need to recognize is that when Muslims make this claim they are saying that ISLAM is perfect, they are not saying that all Muslims are."
You replied...
"I'm afraid I find nothing moral about Islam. Even if it was "Morally Superior" it would still fail as it does not provide a means for atonement. Your "Moral Superiority" is nothing but pride "filthy RAGS" so therefore Islam fails just on that alone."
I have known many deeply spiritual Muslims of exemplary moral character. Men and woman who are vastly superior to myself in all instances. Never once have I seen their clear superiority over others manifest as arrogance or haughtiness. To be morally superior is to be devoid of 'pride' in the sense that you use the word.
Your reply continued...
"We Christians are not "morally superior", as a matter of fact we are taught just the opposite, we are made perfect not because of anything we have done, but because of Christ, who he is and what he has done. Man is sinful and God is holy. Man is fallen and CHRIST HAS RISEN. We are to serve, not be served, to be last so that we shall be first."
Again you have conflated the tradition with its adherents. For a Muslim, Islam is the 'religion' given to mankind by Allah (swt)...
[Qur'an 5:3] “This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”
God has chosen Islam for mankind because it is the best system by which to live your life. Therefore, because it is God given, we believe that it is morally superior.
Don't you (as a Christian) believe that the Christian tradition is superior in all aspects as a religion and way of life, or is it just one that exists on a level playing field amongst many others, such as Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism and......Islam?
@TheFatMan
I Said...
"When Muslims comment on such issues they should do so with sensitivity and compassion for the victims. It should not be used as a platform to throw mud at Christians."
You replied...
"Well they don't and they do use it for that reason."
So can I infer from this reply that you believe it is wrong to do this? If so, then perhaps you should stop the mud slinging in this regard as well.
I said...
"I would, however, like to see more Christians challenging the likes of Sam Shamoun and David Wood"
You replied...
"Yeah I'm sure you would like to see FITNA between Christians."
So when you call on Muslims to condemn the behaviour of other Muslims this is what you have in mind?
So basically, no matter what the behaviour (in this case blatant lies and defamation of religion) you will arbitrarily stand by your co-religionists rather than speak out for the truth.
In both cases it seems that you hold Muslims to a higher standard than you do yourself and your Christian brethren - why?
I said...
"Finally, when Muslims claim that Islam is morally superior to Christianity they are speaking about ideals. Though Islam is often betrayed by Muslims, its truth is never forgotten. What you need to recognize is that when Muslims make this claim they are saying that ISLAM is perfect, they are not saying that all Muslims are."
You replied...
"I'm afraid I find nothing moral about Islam. Even if it was "Morally Superior" it would still fail as it does not provide a means for atonement. Your "Moral Superiority" is nothing but pride "filthy RAGS" so therefore Islam fails just on that alone."
I have known many deeply spiritual Muslims of exemplary moral character. Men and woman who are vastly superior to myself in all instances. Never once have I seen their clear superiority over others manifest as arrogance or haughtiness. To be morally superior is to be devoid of 'pride' in the sense that you use the word.
Your reply continued...
"We Christians are not "morally superior", as a matter of fact we are taught just the opposite, we are made perfect not because of anything we have done, but because of Christ, who he is and what he has done. Man is sinful and God is holy. Man is fallen and CHRIST HAS RISEN. We are to serve, not be served, to be last so that we shall be first."
Again you have conflated the tradition with its adherents. For a Muslim, Islam is the 'religion' given to mankind by Allah (swt)...
[Qur'an 5:3] “This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”
God has chosen Islam for mankind because it is the best system by which to live your life. Therefore, because it is God given, we believe that it is morally superior.
Don't you (as a Christian) believe that the Christian tradition is superior in all aspects as a religion and way of life, or is it just one that exists on a level playing field amongst many others, such as Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism and......Islam?
@TheFatMan
The problem that I see with your brand of Christianity is that since you hold the world in such contempt (original sin, fallen man etc) you do not strive to make the world a better place.....it is fallen and corrupt after all no matter what right?
However, we do not see the world as being instrinsically evil and corrupted like you. If you study the Qur'anic account of the beginning of mankind you will see that we were offered the earth and our lives as a trust. With this trust comes great responsibility. There are very subtle differences in this account that make a huge difference in the way we view things.
Mankind has been given an awesome responsibility as a viceregent or caretaker of the Earth. To simplify things, this life is a test. We are meant to strive towards creating a just and sacred society, not turn away from this responsibility and leave the task soley "unto Ceaser".
Unlike the Christian (who looks on the world with a kind of contempt) the Muslim exists in a neutral state. The world, when everything is orientated towards the sacred, is a place of beauty and peace. When God ceases to remain fixed at the centre of every aspect of living the world can only fall into ruin.
Is it any wonder that the modern Western world which has turned its back on the traditional modes of living (where the sacred was centre stage) is so ugly? You see this reflected in modern architecture, modern art, music, film etc.
I will quote Charles le Gai Eaton to sum up...
"...and in their cultivation of personal piety, they (Christians) have allowed human society to slip away from righteousness, leaving the conduct of worldly affairs to secular forces indifferent to the priority of the eternal norms"
@fatman
:)
Pretty interesting list of skills
Erm...
I was simply asking you to send the links to your debates. I was also encouraging you to letTizita know of the rebuke as well as advamcing the idea you should confront Dave and Sam.
BTW, Soccer is not such a bad sport.
Yahay
"I was simply asking you to send the links to your debates. I was also encouraging you to letTizita know of the rebuke as well as advamcing the idea you should confront Dave and Sam."
As far as the debates, I didn't record them so I don't have any links. Go and ask Waduaha on Paltalk I know she recorded them but I don't know what she did with them. Last I heard Nakdemon tried to upload them to his Youtube but it was corrupt. So check his youtube page out.
As far as TZ, there is nothing for me to rebuke, I don't think she said anything wrong.
I never said soccer was a bad sport I just said it was for SISSY's :) A player get's tapped in soccer they roll on the grown everything in pain.
In real football, you get up after you have been knocked down. And you don't get taken off the field unless your unconscious or somethig is broken.
Anonymous Muslim said....
"The problem that I see with your brand of Christianity is that since you hold the world in such contempt (original sin, fallen man etc) you do not strive to make the world a better place.....it is fallen and corrupt after all no matter what right?"
First Anonymous Muslim I wish you would get a nick, so I know who I am responding to.
But now to your comment.
I don't know what you mean by "brand of Christianity."?
But now on to your statement...
"you do not strive to make the world a better place"
Don't mean to break out the measuring rod but you put any Christian charity against a Muslim charity and I guaranty you we come out on top. There are more Christian charities, they are better funded, better organized, and open to all. Honestly I have no idea where you came up with that.
I will give you a example, I was listing to a debate with Sammi Zatari and some Nut case, on a English Muslim radio program. All the advertisements for charities were about Muslims. Help feed the starving Muslims, help poor Muslims buy books, Help poor Muslims get medical attention etc... etc...
You listen to any Christian TV or radio program and it is "Help the Starving, Help the illiterate, help those in need of medical attention. This help is to all regardless of their religion.
We build schools, provide safe drinking water, provide medical attention, we build sir we don't BLOW UP. Can you name me one Christian Charity that has ever been indited or convicted on Terrorism charges?
Go to any country in need and you will find a Christian Charity, go to any disaster, and the first on scene before the UN, is a Christian charity. From Indonesia to Hatti Christians are there.
Now if you want to continue on with the doctrine of Original Sin and the fallen state of man we can. But to say what you said is not only offensive but is not even realistic. So I will demand a apology before we can continue.
you know i agree with fatman. its not that soccer is for sissies, ice hockey is just flat out better than any other sport (no offence yahya)
also fatman, it is true christian charities are far more than muslim ones, but the thing is those charities are more interested in convertering illiterate african kids. every time a natural disaster happens we can't get by with atleast one christian group doing something retarded.
I frequently watch 2 christian channels, called VISION and CTS (both are Canadian). I'd say all the ads that come on during commercials are about charity and stuff. and in those ads, they tell how they give bibles to "save" young kids. yeah like water and food won't do any better?
@Ali
Hockey is a good sport a little to violent for my tastes. COLD STEAL ON ICE, Chicago Black Hawks 2010 Stanly Cup Champions :)
You said...
"and in those ads, they tell how they give bibles to "save" young kids. yeah like water and food won't do any better?"
Putting aside the fact that they also not only give out water and food, but provide means of empowering people to produce there own clean drinking water, as well as grow there own food. Nothing wrong with handing out bibles and saving God's elect.
Christian charities hand out bibles, Muslim charities hand out Bombs.
@TheFatMan
You have decided to take only the very beginning of my post and construct a wholly inapropriate response to what I was actually saying. Perhaps you should have attempted a more thoughtful response to the overall thrust of the critique I presented.
The sort of weak argumentation that you continually peddle here and elsewhere is indicative of the kind of mentality you possess. It is tit for tat all the way with little, if any, real substance.
However, I must say that you gave me a good laugh when I got to this part....
"So I will demand a apology before we can continue"
After all the things that you say to Muslims on this blog and you DEMAND an apology from me?
Well in that case I guess that's the end of the dialouge ;)
May Allah (swt) guide you
Anonymous Muslim said...
"You have decided to take only the very beginning of my post and construct a wholly inapropriate response to what I was actually saying."
Sir you made a completely false allegation in the very begging. It was dishonest, and completely false. I could not read further or respond to anything further until you correct this completely dishonest and false allegation.
You also said...
"After all the things that you say to Muslims on this blog and you DEMAND an apology from me?"
Sir what have I said other then the truth on this blog. Point out one statement I have made that I have not backed up.
@Ali,
:)
The only team I know is the Maple Leafs
Fatman said: @Ali
Hockey is a good sport a little to violent for my tastes. COLD STEAL ON ICE, Chicago Black Hawks 2010 Stanly Cup Champions :)
Too violent?
Erm you are the chap who wanted to use Iraq as a warzone to battle Iran as insurgents.
Your inconsistencies are quite startling
In any case, are you not ex-military? I get that feel about you.
@Fatman,
Does it really matter who the cash goes to?
There are many poor Muslim countries and quite a few of them have been decimated by war. It is only right for a MUSKIM radio station to encourage their Muslim listeners to donate to help these poor Muslims.
And yes, I agree Muslims should try to work with more non-muslim charities as well as our job is to help all mankind.
One problem is that of Muslims not paying zakat (annual religiously obligatory tax). It is a sin not to pay.
@TheFatMan
I'll give you a hint....
Making the world a better place goes way beyond dropping off some bags of rice and building a few wells in a bunch of third world countries - countries that are kept in that position, in no small part, due to the abuses of Western inspired capitalism (think third world debt as one example).
Re-read what I put and then get back to me (if you don't get the overall point that I am making then don't bother)
@ Anonymous said...
Making the world a better place goes way beyond dropping off some bags of rice and building a few wells in a bunch of third world countries.
I suppose your right, providing safe drinking water, setting up co ops, and farmer's assistance, doctors, medicine, taking care of widow's and orphans etc... All of this doesn't compare to the wonderful work you're Muslim missionaries are doing.
Let's just highlight a few.
Muslim missionary kills one Coptic Christian and wounds 4 others.
Muslims missionary detonates outside of a Church in Egypt, killing Christians and Muslims on New Years Eve.
Muslims Missionaries attack a Church in Iraq, slaughtering a 4 year old boy on the alter in front of his parents. Also killed was the priest and scores others.
In Pakistan a Muslim Missionary was just sharing the faith with several Christian girls by rapping them.
Same thing in Australia, as well as in the UK. Thats all these Muslim men were doing was sharing there faith in Allah with these KUFFAR girls.
Yup I can see how Muslims really want to make the world a better place.
@Anonymous
*Yawn*
@TheFatMan
Just because the dialouge here goes way over your head doesn't mean you have have to reply anonymously.
We're already well aware that you lack the prerequisite intellectual capacity for mature conversation.
@anonymous
They are not Muslim "missionaries".
Christians -
Yahya opens this blog to all comments, the least you could do is take this opportunity to dialogue with Muslims without engaging in all the nonsensical cut and paste BS and actually attempt to raise the bar above the tired tit for tat polemics.
You are afforded far more freedom to express yourselves here on this Muslim blog than we are on David Wood's. Yet you squander this opportunity by cutting and pasting from Christian hate sites.
More than a bit sad.
Привет!
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