Recently my blog has been spammed by a Christian fundamentalist with the exact same claims that this blog has already addressed and debunked. Before going over OLD ground again here are a couple of shady internet Christian missionaries who the spammer follows, check them out making the SAME claim and shown to be corrected by scholars:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/sharia-does-not-allow-sex-with-pre.html
The spammer is desperate for people to believe Muslims can have sex with prepubescent girls - perhaps that's a lie he works assiduously because he wants to detract attention from Islam's true monotheism being compared to his mysterious trinitarian views and/or his desire to paint Muslims as savages due to his political leaning.
The irony is, the spammer's claims have indeed been debunked before. The exact same commentary has been explained in 2010 on this very blog. Perhaps he missed it or has a bad memory. Here is the blog post which in it's entirety (incidentally enough it was addressing a Christian missionary called Jochen Katz - I would not be surprised if the spammer ran with Katz's already-refuted material due to him not being up to date and not realising it was an old lie spun by Jochen Katz):
Jochen Katz Continues to Peddle an Internet Hoax about Surah 65:4
At this blog we have already unveiled a few sexual related hoaxes which are being peddled by rogue “Christian” missionaries on the internet; they include the “thighing girls” fabrication, the bestiality hoax and the outrageous necrophilia allegation. Well, we have another rogue “Christian” missionary (Jochen Katz) who is STILL peddling the prepubescent girls hoax – this chap is not exactly Mr Current Affairs as this hoax was denounced many moons ago by many people!
Jochen Katz, for those who are unaware is a “Christian” missionary colleague of the infamous Sam Shamoun – yes, that’s the bloke who made up his OWN Quranic Verse translation to claim Muslims “can have sex with animals”.
Thus it comes as no surprise that Jochen Katz is imputing ANOTHER fanciful sex-related claim on Islam. Katz, is not interested in convincing his audience of “Muslim sex with animals”; Katz is more interested in convincing his fanatical followers that “Muslims can have sex with prepubescent girls.
Jochen Katz is Regurgitating the Same Tired and Failed Arguments
I have denounced a couple of Jochen Katz’s colleagues in this regard in the past, yet Katz seems to be trying to slip under the radar with this outrageous claim. I guess his motto is, if at first you don’t succeed, try again!
Is Jochen Katz Wrong?
Of course Jochen Katz is wrong; I would not be surprised if he KNEW he was peddling misinformation; such is the extent of public refutation and denouncement of his colleagues in the same regard.
Can Muslims have sex with prepubescent girls?
No.
Islamic Law prohibits sex with prepubescent girls a relationship is only acceptable if the female has reached maturity [1]. According to Sharia consummation of a marriage can take place (only) AFTER maturity [1].
The classical scholar Hasan al Basri also taught one cannot do anything of an intimate (sexual) nature with a girl who has not reached puberty. See here for more information on this “sex with prepubescent girls claim” and a subsequent refutation:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/10/david-wood-of-acts-17-apologetics-up-to.html
Maulana Muhammad Ali’s commentary of the Quran debunks the claim of “prepubescent sex”
Maulana Muhammad Ali in his commentary of the qu’ran comments:
These words, moreover, show that marriage should be performed at the age when a person has attained majority, for the age of marriage is spoken of as being the age of attaining majority (sourced from http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/part_3_c.pdf)
OK, so we KNOW Jochen Katz is wrong but does Katz use any Reasoning?
Katz employs a form of warped “reasoning” on this one. He bypasses the FACT Islamic Law (Sharia) does NOT allow sex with prepubescent girls and proceeds to draw bizarre and unsupported conclusions from a Quranic Verse (65:4), here is a translation of the Verse:
And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]. And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him. (HilaliKhan translation of 65:4)
As you can see it is not instructing prepubescent sex – the claim of sex with prepubescent girls comes from the mind of Jochen Katz. To educate Katz and the readers further we will present an audio (by Brother Colin at the ozzycda YouTube page). This audio is more than a year old, it refutes Katz’s hoax. Somebody should have directed him to this audio before he put pen to paper – it would have saved him from looking so dated and inaccurate:
I will also put forward a link to a couple of articles which have ALREADY refuted Jochen Katz’s canard:
http://ozzycda.blogspot.com/2009/04/women-in-islam.html
http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/part_3_c.pdf
Sheikh Moustafa Zayed Educates Jochen Katz and those of his ilk
I will allow Sheikh Moustafa Zayed to explain (perhaps he will circumnavigate Jochen Katz’s shield of fanaticism and get through to him) and the others who cling onto this malicious polemic in attempts to demonise Prophet Muhammad, Islam and all Muslims):
The most important rule as to marriage of females as per the majority of Muslim scholars is that the female had reached puberty and that she can mentally carry the responsibility of marriage. She has to be physically and mentally able to fulfil the duties of marriage…why was the Prophet waiting to consummate the marriage for three years? The answer is simple; for Aisha to reach the acceptable combination of conditions for her to be accepted as a wife. [5]
Logic Argues Against Jochen Katz
Even the one who lacks knowledge in this regard can still realise Katz is speaking through a hole in his hat. IF Katz was correct and Muslims could have sex with prepubescent girls then we would have a history of these sexual cases which spans volumes and centuries, we would also have a very long list of scholars stating this act to be permitted; we don’t have anything of such nature. The fact that we don’t have this “history” shows Katz up for the hoaxer he is.
Bringing a Hadith and a Jesus Scholar to Educate the Merchant of Hoaxes named Jochen Katz
If Katz had done some serious study he would KNOW it is thought the Jews at the time of Jesus conducted marriages similar to their Arab brethren; that is to say that they betrothed the young girl whilst she was immature and then waited for her to attain maturity before consummating the marriage [2][3][4]
So, if this is case Jochen Katz’s “man-god” (Katz believe Jesus was both god and man at the same time) gave tacit approval to this phenomenon. Moreover in Islam once the girl has reached maturity she then decides whether to approve of the marriage, if she does then the marriage is consummated:
Allah's Apostle said, "It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage). I said, "A virgin feels shy." The Prophet; said, "Her silence means her consent." Some people said, "If a man falls in love with an orphan slave girl or a virgin and she refuses (him) and then he makes a trick by bringing two false witnesses to testify that he has married her, and then she attains the age of puberty and agrees to marry him and the judge accepts the false witness and the husband knows that the witnesses were false ones, he may consummate his marriage." (Bukhari: Book 9: Volume 86: Hadith 101)
It is clear old Jochen Katz is looking silly; nobody of a rational disposition will view what he presented as credible – especially in the light of what has already been presented. However, I have some more egg to smear of Jochen Katz’s face – at this blog we like to be thorough and kicking a bloke whilst he is down is the norm.
Jochen Katz Makes a Song and Dance about Maududi’s Tafsir and is Deceptive to boot!
Katz quotes a snip from footnote 13 (Tafhim al-Qur'an by Maududi):
Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Qur'an the question of the waiting period arises in respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur'an has held as permissible
Having Realised Katz is Misinformation Central we Realise he is Dishonest
Jochen Katz is deceptive in this regard as he omits the (crucial) preceding portion of the footnote. Before quoting the entire footnote and unveiling Katz’s deceptive ways we can discuss Maududi’s Tafsir. Firstly, if Maududi claimed sex with prepubescent girls is allowed (I don’t believe he did) then he would be rejected as ALL four schools of Jurisprudence prohibit the practice. In fact the Sunnah dictates to us that contracting a marriage with a prepubescent girl prior to her attaining puberty is permissible BUT to live with and consummate the marriage (prior to maturation) is unacceptable [2], [3], [4]
Did Syed Abul A'ala Maududi Claim Sex with Prepubescent Girls is allowed?
Jochen Katz, disingenuously, gives the impression Maududi did. In defence of Maududi it would be wise to do the honest and wise action; that is to quote the ENTIRE footnote, something Katz failed to do.
However, before doing so it would be wise to state Maududi would have been well aware of the Sunnah and the four schools of Fiqh (Jurisprudence), thus it is extremely unlikely he would have claimed the Verse taught having sex with prepubescent girls is permitted
A case of context and Katz taking advantage of Ambiguity
Here is the ENTIRE footnote
They may not have menstruated as yet either because of young age, or delayed menstrual discharge as it happens in the case of some women, or because of no discharge at all throughout life which, though rare, may also be the case. In any case, the waiting-period of such a woman is the same as of the woman, who has stopped menstruation, that is three months from the time divorce was pronounced.
Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Qur'an the question of the waiting period arises in respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur'an has held as permissible.
The girl who is divorced in the state when she has not yet menstruated and then she starts having the menses during the waiting-period, will reckon her waiting-period from the same menstruation and her waiting-period will be reckoned just like the woman who menstruates regularly.
Do you notice the first paragraphed (conveniently omitted by Katz)? Maududi gives a number of reasons why the female may not have menstruated. So Katz, there is a context and ambiguity to the snippet you showcased.
Sadly, Katz takes advantage of the ambiguity and his partial quoting in order to suggest Maududi is speaking about sex with prepubescent girls. It is not entirely clear who Maududi was referring to, Katz does not care. One would imagine, in the light of Islamic Jurisprudence, it refers to the females who have not menstruated for OTHER reasons. Katz had access to the COMPLETE footnote yet chose not to quote it; he withheld it from his reader’s attention in order to misdirect them into his thought path.
Serious Truth Seeker?
It gets worse as Jochen Katz, if he was a serious truth seeker would have immediately ran to Maududi’s commentary of Surah 4 in order to ascertain his position on orphan maturity (see footnote 10 of his Tafsir):
Two conditions of puberty and capability have been laid down for the return of their property to the orphans. As to the application of the first condition, there is consensus among the scholars of law, but in regard to the second condition there is some difference of opinion. Imam Abu Hanifah is of the opinion that if the orphan lacks capability when he reaches the age of puberty, his guardian may wait for a maximum period of seven years, and then he must return this property to him whether he shows signs of capability or not. But Imam Abu Yusuf, Imam Muhammad and Imam Shaf'i are of the opinion that capability is a pre-requisite for .the return of his property to the orphan. Probably these latter scholars were inclined to the opinion that the case of such a person should be referred to a Muslim judge, who would himself arrange for the management of the property of the one who has not acquired capability of management.
Maududi was accepting of the fact that PUBERTY was a condition for orphans to be deemed responsible for their property, thus by the way of implication this leads us to believe Maududi would have been in line with ALL schools of Jurisprudence in saying prepubescent sex is NOT allowed.
Again, in the interest of kicking a carcass we shall look at Katz’s conclusion in some detail.
Jochen Katz’s fanciful conclusion dissected
Katz states:
Syed Abul A'ala Maududi (1903 - 1979) was a highly respected scholar of Islam. He was well aware of the criticism of child-marriages that is levelled also at Islam but he clearly says Muslims cannot reject and forbid something that the Qur'an has permitted.
The parents’ contracting a marriage of their child to a man is allowed in Sharia but sex prior to maturation is not allowed. Katz displays his ignorance and/or inconsistency as Geza Vermes taught Jews at the time of Jesus undertook a similar practice [6]. In fact it is thought Mary and Joseph had a similar union, thus Jesus gave tacit approval to such a practice. I get the feeling Katz was more interested in bashing Muslims rather than “edifying” the church. Katz gives us an insight into his debauched and troublesome thought-pattern:
In other words, the Qur'an endorses explicitly that (usually much older) Muslim men can marry eight or nine or ten year old girls, have sex with them, then divorce them and – after a waiting period of three months – other (older) Men men can marry them, and have sex with them. That would be a traumatic experience for any girl. (And, potentially, this could be repeated several times without violating Islamic law.)
Crikey! Firstly, Muslims are not allowed to have sex with prepubescent girls and the girls who have had marriages contracted to an older man do not reside with the potential husband until she has matured and then SHE gets to choose whether she wants to go ahead with the marriage or not (see the Hadith cited earlier). Thus Katz’s conclusion is far fetched and rather disturbing – he was playing to his fanatical audience in an effort to shock. He certainly has shocked us with his deceptive, inconsistent and unlearned ways. Here Katz goes on the offensive against a straw man which he wrongly perceives to be Sharia:
Certainly, this alone should be a sufficient reason to reject Sharia as the law for any country, to object strongly against the introduction of Sharia law in not traditionally Muslim countries, and for enlightened Muslims to campaign for its restriction or replacement in countries where Sharia is currently the basis of national law.
Katz has argued against sex with prepubescent girls and wrongly imputed an instruction of such a practice on Sharia. The irony is twofold; Katz is against sex with prepubescent girls, so too is the ACTUAL Sharia (not the straw man he ignorantly presents). The second bout of irony comes into play as it is thought Jesus (pbuh) gave tacit approval to such unions, it is even thought the mother of Jochen Katz’s “god-man” (he believes Prophet Jesus was god incarnate) was involved in such a union.
Irony is best served with a slice of humble pie. Jochen have a rethink. By the way; Sharia means “law” thus it is a redundancy for you to coin the term “Sharia law”. The irony continues:
However, manipulating the text to cover up what it really says is not acceptable.
Katz thinks Muslims have been “manipulating” the texts. The only ones manipulating texts are Jochen Katz and his buddies. Katz came forward with a preconceived notion that “Muslims are allowed to have sex with prepubescent girls) and he adopted desperate means in order to make this tired and refuted argument resonate with his fanatical support. Sad. It gets sadder as Katz’s colleague has made up his OWN Quranic translations in order to support his fallacious and crazed arguments in the past. Does Katz want to talk about manipulating texts with a straight face?
Genuine progress can only be made on the basis of knowledge and truth and dealing with the facts.
Oh, the irony continues to flow! Like I say, Jochen Katz’s material is old hat and he is sounding like a stuck record; I guess even his small fanatical following are tiring of his regurgitated and tired arguments.
Message to serious Christians
People like Katz should not receive any of your money; it is clear they are fellows of hate and have no regard for honesty; all the while they give the church a bad name.
Jesus would never support Katz and those of his ilk. Do not give him or his site any cash!
Message to Jochen Katz (and any Christian who is tired of “missionary” hoaxes and wants the Truth)
Jochen, this is not the way to behave. You are not behaving in a Christ-like manner. Muslims are the brothers and sisters of Jesus. Would you like to become a brother of Jesus? If yes please become a Muslim today; at the moment you are wasting your life immersed in anti-Muslim bigotry. Do not reject your Creator (the Creator of Jesus, Muhammad and all of us):
http://www.ediscoverislam.com/
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/09/forgiveness-in-islam-and-christianity.html
Feedback: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk
References
[1] Yasir Qahdi’s QA session in The Quran and Orientalists
[2] Explanation of Muslim by Imam Nawawi, Book of Marriage, Hadeeth 75, Vol 9, p.207 Aisha said: ‘Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) engaged me when I was six years old, and consummated the marriage when I was a girl of nine years old.’... And Malik and Shafii and Abu Hanifa said: ‘The limit for that (consummation) is her (the female’s) capability for (sexual) intercourse.’ Dawudi said: ‘And Aisha then had physically matured well indeed’.” (see muhaddith.org)
[3] Ar-Raheequl-Makhtum by Safi-ur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri, Darussalam, 2002 pg 176-177
[4] Sahih Al Bukhari 1/551, Talqih Fuhum Ahlil-Athar, p10
[5] The Lies About Muhammad, Moustafa Zayed, 2010, pg 333
[6] Jesus the Jew, by Geza Vermes, 1973, William Collins sons and Co Ltd, pages 219-222
