Nazam Guffoor I wanted to share a very nice simple point made by br. Imad in the past. He posed the question: "If the Qur'an is right about Jesus simply *appearing* to be crucified, then what should we expect history to prove/say?" What exactly should the secular Roman historical records say? What should Tacitus or Josephus say, exactly? Would they not STILL say, "Jesus was crucified"? In other words, we would still expect them to say THE SAME THING.
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Do you have a link or reference for this statement from br. Imad? Thanks.
I only have the FB link of the post by Nazam. I'm not sure where the comment was first posted.
https://www.facebook.com/gregmonette/posts/10153917644520237
Peace
While it's true we would expect the Jewish enemies of Jesus to report the death of him, since it appeared to them he was crucified.
Wouldn't the very disciples of Jesus report his non-crucifixion, since Jesus pointed out to them he never died?
why does jesus change the way he looks and appears as someone unrecognisable in the gospel accounts?
what all the mistaken identity about in the gospel accounts?
if the deciples DID prove that the badly beaten guy on the cross wasn't jesus what makes you think that they had the power to win over the crowds?
matthew says that 500 alledged witnesses, deciples and flying angel COULDN'T squash the claim that the deciples stole the body and the claim became WIDELY known.
"If the Qur'an is right about Jesus simply *appearing* to be crucified, then what should we expect history to prove/say?" What exactly should the secular Roman historical records say? What should Tacitus or Josephus say, exactly? Would they not STILL say, "Jesus was crucified"? In other words, we would still expect them to say THE SAME THING."
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Isn’t it funny that crucified criminal is still giving christians orders in an area where he was crucified and in an area where those who crucified him reign?
What would this look like to the romans? Escaped criminal is still around?
When the romans do grab the christians they release them so they clearly weren’t interested in escape convict?
The resurrection isn’t a sign of anything. What was supposed to happen in three days wasn’t announced until day 50. At that point, there was no proof of anything. If we didn’t see it, it’s not a sign.
I don’t know what other signs you might think prove Jesus is the Messiah, but if these three aren’t signs, I’m dubious that any other signs can be brought forward on Jesus’ behalf. The fact is, even the men who wrote about these signs didn’t claim to witness them for the most part. They were private events and not signs to Israel or you or me. The best that could be said is that the virgin birth was a sign to Mary and the baptism a sign to John. The sign Jesus promised, he didn’t even bother to perform before those he promised it. I know that this isn’t your main topic right now, and I’m sorry for being off-point. This has just been stuck in my head since I saw it.
In the case of Mary, you have basically admitted that it wasn’t a sign. If it was only a sign to her then it isn’t a sign to you or me, and therefore is not a sign that you can call upon to establish the validity of Jesus.
Furthermore, you ignore the fact that Jesus expressly did not fulfill the sign he promised. He did not present himself after three days of being dead. That is the very reason you now have to rely on the change in the disciples. But that isn’t the sign he promised.
now thats INTERESTING , isn't it?
jesus STAYS in hiding? why?
u came back to life and u don't want to show your face to those you said that you were going to show your face to?
so we have mistaken identity.
people in jesus' time assume that john the baptist APPEARED in anothers face
jesus changes his APPEARACE and DECIEVES his deciples into thinking he is SOMEONE else.
who is gonna recognise a badly beaten jew in a time when jews were crucified ALL the time?
jesus is on the run 70 miles away
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