Sunday, 3 July 2011

Christian Wives Cannot Refuse Sexual Relations with their Husbands – Bible

Christian Hypocrisy: Muslim Marital Ways

Sadly, some myopic and Islamophobic Christians have been missing the point concerning Islam’s encouragement of both husband and wife to fulfil each other’s rights sexually. Christian Islamophobes who lack understanding often cite the following Hadith in their attempts to point score against Muslims:

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘If a woman spends the night having forsaken her husband’s bed, the angels will curse her until she goes back.’”(narrated by al-Bukhaari, al-Nikaah, 4795)

These Christians often disregard the following points:

1. The Bible teaches the SAME thing; Christian women are not allowed to refuse their husands sexually (and vice versa) plus must obey their husbands with regards to what they wear etc..

2. Sexual relations are the natural rights of the husband and wife, thus the spouse denying their partner (husband/wife) increases the risk that the husband/wife will seek to satisfy their desires outside of marriage which is a huge sin within Islam and Christianity.

3. Sexual union is part of husband-wife relations and builds intimacy and love between the spouses.

The Bible teaches Christian women cannot refuse sex with their Christian husbands?

Now, those familiar with the Bible may cite the most obvious Bible verse, which instructs the wife to obey the husband in every command:

Ephesians 5:24-33

New Living Translation (NLT)
As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything.

However, this is not the verse I had in mind, though the verse could be deemed more than sufficient to illustrate the point but the following passage in Corinthians teaches us that Christian women (and men) should not refuse their spouses sexual intimacy – very much in the same way as the Islamic teachings above:

1 Corinthians 7:2-5
New Living Translation (NLT)
2 But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.
3 The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s needs. 4 The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife.
5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

*Note, the NIV uses the word ‘marital’ instead of ‘sexual’ in verse three. The two words amount to the same meaning. However, the CEB agrees with the word ‘sexual’.

Learned Christians teach Christian women cannot say no to their husbands’ sexual advances (and vice versa):

"Sex when desired" by either partner: 1 Cor 7:3-4.
If your husband wants sex, it is a sin to refuse him. If your wife wants sex, it is a sin to refuse her. Bible sex is always consensual... your spouse asks, and you always say yes. Many a marriage can be saved by implementing this one rule alone. When you get married, you lose control of your body to your spouse. Studies have shown that about an equal amount of married women want more sex than their husbands, as married men who want more sex than their wives desire. It would be nice to match men and women up as marriage partners based upon their sex drive it would be great. But unfortunately this is often not the case. One partner wants sex more often than the other. In these situations, the partner that doesn’t desire sex must immediately consent to their spouse. Scripture is very clear about this although most Christians have missed this. []

The Christians understand this passage to even mean if the husband (or wife) wants sex more often than their respective spouse then the spouse MUST IMMEDIATELY CONSENT.

Inconsistent and ignorant Christians

May I ask, why is it that so many Christians are criticisng Islam for something that is totally BIBLICAL and supported by the author of Corinthians (largely agreed to be St Paul)? The answer my friends, is that of ignorance of the Bible and inconsistency.

Paul's advice ignored
Dress code?

A bonus nugget – no more short skirts, shorts, tight jeans, tight tops, transparent clothing, low cut tops etc – if the Christian husband puts his foot down! write:
1 Cor 7:3-4 also means that your spouse has control over you the way you dress, your hair cut and the way you physically look.

Christian men, speak up!

Oh Christian wives, could you speak up against those, I believe they call them ‘suspenders’ or 'braces', two straps some American Christian men wear to hold their trousers up. Get them to wear belts. Belts look smarter. :)

And PLEASE start wearing the Hijab, we have clearly shown it to be biblical. If  your husbands complain, tell them its your right to wear the clothing of Mary (p).

Christians ignore Paul AGAIN

This Bible teaching of not refusing sex with your spouse unless mutually agreed seems to be disliked by some Christians. I’m not sure why. Paul is presenting a perfectly reasonable teaching as it helps keep Christian men and women away from temptations of adultery, pornography and other sexual deviances. Muslims have a similar teaching, looks like Paul is agreeing with Islam again as we previously taught Paul supported the hijab to the extent that he thought hijab-less Christian women were temptations for angels (and most likely other men too)!

Why are so many modern day Christians ignoring Paul’s conservative teachings which are precautions against adultery and fornication. Surely if America followed these two practical and basic teachings of Paul we would have less adultery and fornication in Western societies (as well as Eastern societies as so many within the East imitate and adopt American culture).

The question still stands, why?

Hijab and the Bible



Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Once again as in the discussion about Christian head covering rather than showing the similarity between our two faiths Yayha’s choice of text shows the profound differences between Christianity and Islam.

1st Corinthians chapter 7:1-6 is about equality and mutual submission in marriage as apposed to total celibacy.

Apparently some folks in Corinth mistakenly assumed that the resurrection had come (see 2nd Th 2:2) and we should therefore refrain from sex altogether (Matt 12:19-26).

Read the passage in context.


Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman." But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.
(1 Corinthians 7:1-7)

End quote:

to be continued

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Notice the following differences between What Paul says and Islamic teaching

1) Paul’s advice is to both the wife and the husband

2) Paul emphasizes mutual submission. The wife is just as much in charge as the husband when it comes to sex.

3) At issue is not the occasional spousal refusal but total and complete celibacy “ (verse 1)

4) Paul makes it clear he is not giving commands for Christians in this section but simply advice (7:6, 12 & 26)

5) Instead of telling husbands that their wives are their possessions to use as they see fit he tells them that they should not even be concerned with such things


This is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none,
(1 Corinthians 7:29b)

End quote:

5) The take home message for this section of scripture is not “your wives are your tilth” or “the angels curse you if you deny your husband’s advances”. It’s simply

“It’s OK to remain in the situation you were in when you became a Christian“ as long as you put Christ and his Kingdom first. (verse: 17)

This the polar opposite of the Islamac view as far as I can tell.

If you are going to try and use the Bible you need to treat it with the same respect you would ask others to give your Quran.

Please don’t ignore context use proper Exegesis and don’t proof text.

thanks in advance


Radical Moderate said...

@Snowman and 1milmeter and the other muslims

This is why Jesus said...
"Do not throw you pearls at swine, do not give what is sacred to DOGS"

Muslim Animals

Anonymous said...

However, marriages in Bible were not valid until consummated normally on the wedding night. For example: Jacob was betrothed to Rachel for seven years, however on the wedding night Labin, Rachel’s father tricked Jacob and substituted Leah and Jacob unknowingly consummated the marriage with Leah and not Rachel. He was legally married to Leah and also betrothed still to Rachel and had to work for seven more years for Rachel. Both marriages were not consummated until their wedding night. Under Old Testament law there were reasons a marriage was not official which was that the bride to be was not a virgin and that was discovered the wedding night.

Anonymous said...

3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband.

In the Greek, Paul is saying that we are each owed sex by our spouse (literally a debt that is owed). It's not a favor or an option, it's required by the marriage covenant. Also, sex is not something we earn, our right to it is positional; just being a spouse requires us to meet the sexual needs of the one we are married to.

4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does.

The Greek here is interesting, and not easily explained in English. The idea is of two things which are true, but one is "more true" or of more importance. For example, I love my wife and I love God - both are true, but the second is more important. Jesus used a similar construction in Luke 14:26. He was not really telling us to hate our "father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters," rather He was saying we need to love Him so much that by comparison, we hate all others. So, in the Greek, Paul is saying that the wife does have some authority over her sexuality, but her husband has so much more authority that in comparison she has no authority. Yes, her body is to give her sexual pleasure, but it's also important for her body to give him sexual pleasure.

And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.


Radical Moderator

After reading some of your comments I've arrived at the conclusion that your a idiot

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Michigan raider said:

Radical Moderator

After reading some of your comments I've arrived at the conclusion that your a idiot

To the insulter Jesus said:

whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.
(Matthew 5:22B)

To the insulted Jesus said:

It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household.
(Matthew 10:25)


Radical Moderate said...

@The Muslims I do apologize I should not of said in the link "MUSLIM ANIMALS"

I should of typed MUSLIM BIGOTS. SO I do apologize.

To MI Rider.

Thank you for your kind words, may you continue to grow in wisdom.

Radical Moderate said...

Transcript of Video Part 1

0:25 Street Preacher: "My friend if you don't want to hear me then leave, if you don't want to hear me then go"

00:30 Street Preacher: "I'm here to preach the gospel and obey my savior... Now Gods love made him do something you see. That love made him send his son to this world... Gods love commanded me to preach the Gospel...

00:50 A Muslim in the crowd tells him "Your saying something WRONG" Speaking about Gods love and the love he has to preach the gospel is saying Something WRONG IN DEARBORN

He is not saying anything about Mohamed

1:01 "I will tell you what Jesus says" voice in the crowd "You want to hear what Jesus says... Another voice "leave we don't want you here"

1:10 With a defiant smirk a young Muslim holds up the Quran in the face of the preacher to thunderous applause. This gets the crowd worked up into a frenzy. There is blood in the water now and the Muslims can smell it.

1:42 As the crowd shouts down the street preacher, a young man can be heard saying “Have some respect for the guy at least.” If this is a Muslim then this it can only be because God has begun to turn this young mans heart, this is why the street preacher is doing what he does. The seed has fallen on fertile ground.

The words of reason have no affect on the crowd of Muslims,

2:11 Middle fingers start to be raised from the crowd.

2:20 Following the Quran and Sunnah Muslims begin to STEAL from the street Preachers back pack.

2:40 A young man tries to keep the crowd at a safe distance, a few seconds later the police are seen walking away.

2:54 A young woman appears to try to intervene, a young mans voice “He can do what ever he wants “WE CAN DO WHAT EVER THE FUCK WE WANT”

3:05 Hands up on the camera, Muslims have boundary issues.

3:20 Young men are showing off to a young Muslima in Hijab by stealing from the street preachers backpack, as she looks on approvingly. Perhaps this is a courting ritual, the young men demonstrating that they can provide for the young woman by taking booty by stealing from the Christians.

Radical Moderate said...

Transcript of Video Part 2

3:35 Middle fingers raised up in front of the Camera.

3:45 More middle fingers and cursing from the Muslims in the crowd “Fuck your ass...Freedom of speech”

4:35 The Quran is held up into the crowd once again releasing blood in the water as the crowd erupts to cheers and whistles.

4:45 The street preacher holds up what appears to be a tract of some sort, a young man responds “What the hell is that a piece of paper”

4:52 A hijabed Muslima is seen tearing up the tract that the street preacher was handing out. In Pakistan such an act if it was a tract from the Quran or had Mohamed’s name on it would be considered blaspheme. But notice how with defiant glee she tears it up then holds it up and waves it in his face before she lets it dropped to the ground.

5:15 A young man who is smoking holds up a Quran and shouts at the street preacher “It don't matter if I smoke, I don't FUCKING CURSE....”

5:27 The street preacher asks the crowd “Am I your cousin or Brother”.. The crowd reports back “NOOOOOOOO”

5:35 Now chants of “Go Home, GO HOME....”

5:50 To the chants of “Go home” and middle fingers raised the preacher begins to wipe the dust off his feet to leave Dearborn to it's own destruction.

5:56 As he is leaving, the Crowd now that the water is fully drenched in blood, begins the chant “ALLAH AKBAR, ALLAH AKBAR”

6:08 More middle fingers raised to the camera, to Islamic Chants of victory.

6:53 As the street preachers walks out of the festival, a Muslim is heard saying “Get the Fuck on Nigger” As the crowd continues to follow him and chant “GO HOME GO HOME”

7:00 As Muslims again demonstrate that they have boundary issues by trying to obscure the camera, the same Muslim tells the camera man “Don't record this shit here nigger...Go home nigger with your bullshit”

7:06 The police are seen on the camera

7:10 Muslim in the crowd to the police “He should be arrested for coming here... your disrespecting Arabs, your disrespecting our RELIGION, YOU DISRESPECTING OUR FREEDOM YOUR DISRESPECTING EVERY FUCKING THING OVER HERE.

7:20 The street preacher asks “How am I disrespecting” the crowd erupts and shouts him down.

7:36 The street preacher asks “How am I disrespecting you”, the answer “By being here BITCH”

7:45 “By you telling us our religion is fake” NOTE HE NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR RELIGION BEING FAKE.

8:14 The street preacher leaves as the crowd erupts in jubilation.

8:21 The crowd now turns their hatred on the Camera man

8:30 The camera is jostled and then goes DEAD, THE END

Muslim Bigots in Dearborn 2011

Anonymous said...

"UK terrorists told: Pretend to be gay so you don't get caught," by Nick Owens for the Sunday Mirror, July 3 (thanks to Weasel Zippers):

Al-Qaeda fanatics in Britain are being taught to avoid detection – by pretending to be gay.
A new terror training manual tells Islamic extremists to lie about their sexuality if a woman approaches them in case she is a “honeytrap” spy sent by security services.
The handbook, which was uncovered by a Sunday Mirror ­investigation, says: “Many hotels – especially in busy UK cities – have women hanging around the lobby areas in order to attract men.
“A young beautiful woman may come and talk to you. The first thing you do to protect yourself from such a ­situation is to make dua (prayers) to Allah for ­steadfastness.
“The second thing is to find an excuse to get away from her that is realistic and sensible, such as you having a girlfriend for the past few years and you are loyal to her or you are ­homosexual.”
The suggestion is one of many tips in the manual, called Class Notes From The Security and ­Intelligence Course.
The 64-page guide, ­all in English, was written to try to stop the police and MI5 ­uncovering the identity of terrorists ­plotting ­attacks on British soil.
It was produced by Taliban warlords in Afghanistan and was discovered by Sunday Mirror investigators on a ­password-protected Jihadist website used by UK cells. It has emerged just months after MI5 launched a recruitment drive for women to work as spies.
The guide was placed online after Osama Bin Laden was killed, ­suggesting Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders are ­determined to launch revenge attacks on the UK.
Its introduction says: “Our aim is to publish an English version of a training course to provide basic ­principles of security for working brothers in Europe.”
Other advice warns fanatics not to mix with neighbours too much and to wear sunglasses to make themselves harder to identify. There are also tips on driving a getaway car during a terror plot

Anonymous said...

Interesting thing. I have never seen you lecturing Radical Moderate about insulting people. Perhaps I am wrong and you did???

Radical Moderate said...


When have I ever insulted anyone?

Anonymous said...

Taking into consideration you respond could you answer this.
Can Christian wife refuse to have sex with her husband?


Anonymous said...

To Radical Moderate.
“When have I ever insulted anyone?”

And what would you do if I show you?

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Anon said:

I have never seen you lecturing Radical Moderate about insulting people. Perhaps I am wrong and you did???

I say

I must say I’m a little uncomfortable with general tone that is adopted on this site RM’s comments included however a harsh tone is not the same thing as what Michigan Raider did

I’ve only recently began to frequent this site and perhaps I’ve missed something but I’ve yet to see RM call anyone the equivalent of “retard” or “idiot“ or "fool". Has he done that?

If he has then I would be remiss if I let it slide without sharing what the word of God had to say about it especially after I’ve done this with Michigan Raider.

feel free to please point it out to me if I fail to do so.

Also Keep in mind Jesus is the party that is doing the lecturing and not me.


Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Annon said:

Taking into consideration you respond could you answer this.
Can Christian wife refuse to have sex with her husband?

I say,

The question does not even make sense from the Christian perspective.

Christian husbands are supposed to love their wives like Christ loved the Church and give themselves up for her (Eph 5:25) not the other way around.

Christian husband’s are supposed to love their wives like they love their own bodies (Eph 5:28)

Selfishly demanding that your wife fulfill your own sexual desires when she does not want to is completely foreign to this sort of love.


Anonymous said...

I agree with you on general tone and I want to thank you for avoiding it.
I suppose it is because of your respond to Michigan Radical Moderate apologized.


Radical Moderate said...

@Anon who wrote...

"And what would you do if I show you?"

Well when you show me then I will tell you.

@Anon who wrote...

"I suppose it is because of your respond to Michigan Radical Moderate apologized."

I would agree with you if I had read FMM response before I posted mine. Had I, then I would say his response would of affected mine.

I notice there is no response from Snowman or any Muslim in regards to the video I posted, or the brief transcript of the video.

Interesting that you hold us Christians to a higher standard then you hold your own.

Ali said...

fifth monarchy man why do deny what your own book says?
a common christian trend. cancel whatever verse we give them and they'll bring another verse out of the blue so we can all forget about the original argument.

Radical Moderate said...


you wrote...

"a common christian trend. cancel whatever verse we give them and they'll bring another verse out of the blue so we can all forget about the original argument."


We do not base are theology on one passage, we instead use the entire bible.

I know you Muslims have nothing like these verses in your Quran but I am curious what do these passage's mean to you?

FFM already covered how we Christians are to love our wives as Christ love the church. But the very next passage says.

"In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30because we are members of his body." Eph 5:28-30

So Ali, tell me, if you are vomiting, if you have a migrane headache, or if your just not interested at the moment. Would you want to have to sex? Or do you like to punish and abuse your body?

What about this verse?

"Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them."

Tell me Ali, if your wife is not interested in sex, would demanding sex from her be considered to a Muslim be treating her harshly?

For us Christians the answer is Yes that would be treating our wives harshly.

Radical Moderate said...

@Snowman and Ali what do you think about this.

BEIRUT — Lebanon's highest Sunni Muslim authority on Friday rejected a bill aimed at protecting women against domestic violence and marital rape, saying it would lead to the demise "of the family as in the West."

Dar al-Fatwa also slammed as "heresy" a clause in the bill that criminalises marital rape, accusing those behind the draft law of "inventing new types of crimes."


Anonymous said...


To avoid misunderstanding.
What Christian wife have to do (according to Christianity if her husband who is selfish and not a good Christian) demands sex?


Radical Moderate said...


She can say no. If he acts like a muslim and has sex with her after she said now he cam be arrested tried and put in prison. The church can disciplin him to if he does not repent by disfellowshiponh him

Anonymous said...

“She can say no.” – So you are saying that there is no problem to refuse and it is not a sin? And give me the source for your claims.
“The church can disciplin him to if he does not repent by disfellowshiponh him.” – and for this also.

Anonymous said...

Why don’t you go and lecture these Christians.

Radical Moderate said...


You wrote...

"So you are saying that there is no problem to refuse and it is not a sin?

Wow you really reveal alot about your reprobate mind by that question. To honeslty ask if refusing to have sex is a sin, really tells me alot about you.

First the issue is not if it is a Sin or not for the wife the issue is can a husband force himself on his wife.

Lets say it is a sin for the wife to refuse sex. Does that mean that a husband can remedy this sin of his wife by forcing hiself on her?

The answer is NO.

Now you answer me a question...

Is it a sin in islam for a husband to force his wife into having sex if she says NO?

Anonymous said...

“Wow you really reveal alot about your reprobate mind by that question. To honeslty ask if refusing to have sex is a sin, really tells me alot about you.” – Well, I read it on Christian web site where is says that wife can not refuse to have sex without just reason and it is a sin to do so.
“First the issue is not if it is a Sin or not for the wife the issue is can a husband force himself on his wife.” – I have troubles to understand here, could you answer my previous question just by saying YES or NO?

Is it a sin in islam for a husband to force his wife into having sex if she says NO? - Yes

Ali said...

okay radical i'll take your advice. lets analyze verses about women in the 'entire' bible:

Submission to her Husband

Ephesians 5:24- Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Ephesians 5:22-Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.

And lets look at some commentary by John Wesley, one of the greatest Christian scholars to ever live on this verse:

In the following directions concerning relative duties, the inferiors are all along placed before the superiors, because the general proposition is concerning submission; and inferiors ought to do their duty, whatever their superiors do. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands - Unless where God forbids. Otherwise, in all indifferent things, the will of the husband is a law to the wife. As unto the Lord - The obedience a wife pays to her husband is at the same time paid to Christ himself; he being head of the wife, as Christ is head of the church.

Colossians 3:18- Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:11- A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.

1 Corinthians 11:3 "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

1 Corinthians 11:7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man."

1 Peter 3:6- Just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

Leadership, Freedom of Expression and House Arrest
1 Timothy 2:12- I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

1 Corinthians 7:1 - "Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.

Yeah just in case his wife doesn't worship or silently obey him like a dog.

1 Corinthians 7:1- Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman

Titus 2:3-5 - The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands,
to love their children, [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient (hupotasso) to their own
husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Rebelling against your husband is an insult to god?

Mental Deficiency

1 Peter 3:7-Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker (asthenes) partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

See here for more info on this verse:

Marriage, Adultery and Divorce

Romans 7:2-3- For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress.

Even if the husband is abusive, she can't get away.

1 Corinthians 7:39- A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord

Of course so she can obey and submit to his ever wish as well.

Matthew 5:32- But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery

okay, now lets look at the verse you said. love their bodies like your own, hmm well to me if i want my body to be sexually aroused then i can force it on my wife. if you look at it all together thats the only thing it means.

Ali said...

and as for lebanon, thats why i support hezbollah. lebanon btw is a christian country. so christian propoganda is quite prominent.

Ali said...

and in islam we have verses and hadiths much more descriptive and heart warming:

"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (Quran, 4:19)"

The verse tell's men to listen to women, not treat them with harshness, live with them in kindness, fairness and honour (what equity means). Of course only the only women who deserve this are the one's who aren't slutty and show off their bodies (what the open lewd part means)

When ye have divorced women, and they have reached their term, then retain them in kindness or release them in kindness. Retain them not to their hurt so that ye transgress (the limits). He who doeth that hath wronged his soul. Make not the revelations of Allah a laughing-stock (by your behaviour), but remember Allah's grace upon you and that which He hath revealed unto you of the Scripture and of wisdom, whereby He doth exhort you. Observe your duty to Allah and know that Allah is Aware of all things. (Quran 2:231)

You shall allow them to live in the same home in which they lived with you, and do not make life so miserable for them that they leave on their own. If they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. If they nurse the infant, you shall pay them for this service. You shall maintain the friendly relations among you. If you disagree, you may hire another woman to nurse the child. (Quran 65:6)

The 2 verses above speak of divorce. You have to either reconcile with the wife in kindness or let her leave in kindness. Divorced women are allowed to stay in their husbands houses until she is able to provide on her own or by her family or by her new husband. Men cannot keep women as revenge or hurt them or else they break the boundries and rules set by God.

Remember how woman in the Bible are forbidden to divorce? Well let's see what the Quran says:

If a couple fears separation, you shall appoint an arbitrator from his family and an arbitrator from her family; if they decide to reconcile, GOD will help them get together. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant. (Quran 4:35)

"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange a friendly settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do." (Quran 4:128)

Ali said...

The Quran tell's how husbands and wives SHOULD live:

Among His proofs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other, and He placed in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who think. (Quran 30:21)

It is lawful for you to go in unto your wives during the night preceding the (day's) fast: they are as a garment for you, and you are as a garment for them. God is aware that you would have deprived yourselves of this right, and so He has turned unto you in His mercy and removed this hardship from you. Now, then, you may lie with them skin to skin, and avail yourselves to that which God has ordained for you. (Qur’an 2:187)

He created you from one person (Adam). Subsequently, He gives every man a mate to find tranquility with her. She then carries a light load that she can hardly notice. As the load gets heavier, they implore GOD their Lord: "If You give us a good baby, we will be appreciative." (Quran 7:189)

The following five verses speak of equality:

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted." (Quran, 49:13)

Whoever works righteousness — whether male or female — while he (or she) is a true believer (of Islamic Monotheism) verily, to him We will give a good life (in this world with respect, contentment and lawful provision), and We shall pay them certainly a reward in proportion to the best of what they used to do (i.e. Paradise in the Hereafter)." (Quran 16:97)

Ali said...

"Lo! men who surrender unto Allah, and women who surrender, and men who believe and women who believe, and men who obey and women who obey, and men who speak the truth and women who speak the truth, and men who persevere (in righteousness) and women who persevere, and men who are humble and women who are humble, and men who give alms and women who give alms, and men who fast and women who fast, and men who guard their modesty and women who guard (their modesty), and men who remember Allah much and women who remember - Allah hath prepared for them forgiveness and a vast reward." (Quran 33:35)

The believing men and women are allies of one another. They advocate righteousness and forbid evil, they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey GOD and His messenger. These will be showered by GOD's mercy. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise. (Quran 9:71)

God promises the believing men and the believing women gardens with flowing streams, wherein they abide forever, and magnificent mansions in the gardens of Eden. And GOD's blessings and approval are even greater. This is the greatest triumph (Quran 9:72)

Ali said...

A woman's privacy is to be protected. That is why God says:

"O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful". (Quran 33:59)

Justice against your spouse (Or anything/anyone else as well):

"O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily God is well- acquainted with all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:135)"

There's alot more I can add but due to space left, I'll end with the saying of the Prophet (peace be upon him)

"Paradise lies at the feet of the mother. "

Narrated Abu Huraira:
A man came to Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and asked,
"O Allahs Apostle! Who is more entitled to be treated with the best companionship by me?"
The Prophet(PBUH) said, "Your mother." The man said. "Who is next?"
The Prophet(PBUH) said, "Your mother."
The man further said, "Who is next?"
The Prophet(PBUH) said, "Your mother."
The man asked for the fourth time,
"Who is next?" The Prophet(PBUH) said, "Your father."

"Seeking knowledge is an obligation upon every Muslim, male and female"

"Assuredly, women are the twin halves of men."

"The world and all things in it are valuable; but the most valuable thing in the world is a virtuous woman."

"God enjoins you to treat women well, for they are your mothers, daughters, aunts."

"Whoever doeth good to girls, it will be a curtain to him from hell-fire."

"O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under a trust from God and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers."

Ali said...

one of the verses said that God has placed love and mercy among spouses. i had the opportunity to listen to a local scholar here yesterday. he said love is an up and down cycle. when love is down, mercy takes its place. see how beautiful this is? unfortunately the bible doesn't mention any of this.

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Annon said:

To avoid misunderstanding.
What Christian wife have to do (according to Christianity if her husband who is selfish and not a good Christian) demands sex?

I say:

I would suggest she handle it like any other sin among Christians. (See Mathew 8:15-18).


Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Hey Ali

I would give a hearty amen to the scriptures you posted but ask you to understand the wife’s submission is only one part of the beautiful picture that is Christian marriage.

Just like with any exquisite piece of art if you only look at part of the picture you will miss the whole point.

The wife is to submit to her husband like the Church submits to Christ. The husband is to love his wife like Christ loved the church. Never has a more perfect relationship been described.

I challenge you to find one committed Christian who would consider his relationship with Christ to be one of involuntary servitude or forced submission.

The very idea is nonsensical to anyone who has experienced the love of Christ

We joyfully submit to Christ because we know for certain that he loves us and want’s what is best for us. We know that because he has repeatedly demonstrated it by sacrificing his own comforts and pleasures for our own up to the point of dying in our place.

If a husband acted in the same way with his wife the denial of personal intimacy would not be an issue.

A wife would not deny such a husband anymore than a Christian would pass up a chance to commune with his Lord and Savior.


Fifth Monarchy Man said...


no offence but I find the relationship implied by Quranic texts you posted to be sad in comparison to the type of relationship I’m describing.

It’s like velvet Elvis compared to the Mona Lisa.

The only possible reason I can imagine that you wouldn’t understand my point is because you have never experienced the amazing bond of love between a ransomed sinner and the Christ who died for him.

Untill you do you will never completely understand what I'm saying.

It is truly a pity.


Anonymous said...


“I would suggest she handle it like any other sin among Christians. (See Mathew 8:15-18).” – I read Mathew and haven’t understood it. Since I’m not a bible scholar could you tell me using simple words (because it is a real life scenario). And one more important thing – I need not your suggestions or opinions I need an answer according to Christian rules so no other Christian could tell me that I am misrepresenting Christianity.

Thank you and peace

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

anon said:

I read Mathew and haven’t understood it. Since I’m not a bible scholar could you tell me using simple words (because it is a real life scenario).

I say:

Assuming you are telling the truth and this is a real situation in which a loving and devoted Christian woman has a husband who claims to be a Christian but is instead a sexual dictator this is the advice I would give.

First she should do what is necessary to be safe including contacting the authorities whose job in part is to protect her from evil doers. (Romans 13:4)

If on the other her husband’s demands don’t involve physical threat or intimidation.

1) She should talk to him alone by herself and calmly lovingly tell him her how he is hurting her. (verse 15)

2) If he stubbornly refuses to listen to her she should bring along some of his Christian friends to try and reason with him. (verse 16)

3) If he still refuses to acknowledge the sinfulness of his actions they ( his wife and friends) should share the issue with the church as a whole taking every possible precaution to avoid putting obstacles in the way of her husbands path to repentance. (verse 17)

At each of these steps the husband will be able to defend his actions and the truthfulness of the wife’s claim can be judged.(1 cor 6:3)

4) If her husband still clings to his sin after all this they (the Church and his wife) should treat him as an unbeliever.

This does not mean that she should instigate divorce but If he decides to leave she is no longer obligated to him. (1st Cor 7:10-16)

Hope that helps.


Anonymous said...


Well explained. Thank you for that.


Radical Moderate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Radical Moderate said...


Thank you for posting those beautiful verses from the bible. Do you have anything like those in the Quran?

Tell me what exactly do you as a Muslim disagree with in the scripture you posted?

minoria said...

Well,I think FMM answered well.I was considering JOHN and SHABIR ALLY and the Muslim idea that Muh. is prophesized in the Bible.

Obligatorily he has to be in BOTH the Torah and Gospel

It is in the Koran.Shabir Ally here shows inconsistency.

Shabir's Position

He says Mark doesn't say Jesus says he is God but John does.
He rejects the spear thrust in John as true(based on Raymond Brown,who rejects it also)
In the debate with Licona he rejected the 1 COR 15 creed.
He is favorable to the Gospel of Thomas being from 50 AD,and that the "Q community" believed Jesus never died but was taken alive into heaven.

All that is ok with me

Mainstream scholars,I would say the consensus(95% or more)reject JOHN as historical.

So does Shabir.So JOHN was not by an eyewitness,it is by 3 different authors or more,it is not historical,the historical Jesus never said he was God.

By mainstream I mean the ones Shabir studies:Sanders,Fredriksen,Geza Vermes,Bart Ehrman,Raymond Brown,Dunn.

He also accepts ideas from the radical scholars:Robert Price,Jesus Seminar,Carrier

minoria said...

Again it is ok with me

Alot of non-Muslim skeptics do the same.

I dont know what the exact position of the mainstream scholars is about the Son of Man,Kingdom of God and I say to You sayings in JOHN are,but...

I know mainstream scholars(and of course the radical ones reject and I repeat REJECT the rest of Jesus' sayings in JOHN as HISTORICAL,plus more


Muslims point to:

1.The "Are you the Prophet"phrase directed to JOHN BAPTIST and the

2.PARACLETOS sayings by Jesus

as "Muh is in the Gospel" evidence.

Shabir Ally has no support

His own NT scholars REJECT all that,John-Baptist was never asked that question and the HISTORICAL Jesus never said the Paracletos sayings.

So since it never happened then how can Muhammad be in the Gospel if the "prophecies" are inventions(according to Ehrman,Vermes,Jesus Seminar,etc)?

Then the Koran is wrong.Shabir,if shown that,to be consistent with his method,would have to accept Ehrmans,Sanders',Fredriksen's conclusion that those passages are false and say he can NOT use them as PROOF of the Gospel.

Radical Moderate said...

Just a quick note.

You wrote...
""O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness;"

First notice it's a good thing that the Quran tells you Muslim not to inherit woman against their will. It's amazing to me that this has to be explicitly stated, I guess Muslim can not figure out that inheriting human beings against their will is a bad thing.

It is also a good thing that Muslims are forbidden to treat their woman with Harshness, sounds just like the scripture from the bible that came 600 years before the Quran. But notice there is that except part. "except where they have been guilty of open lewdness" hmmm once again Islam fails even when it trys to do the right thing.

You then wrote...
The Quran tell's how husbands and wives SHOULD live

You quote a few verses but you missed one. Why did you not quote?
"If you fear disloyalty in your wife, then first admonish them, then send them to their beds then BEAT THEM"

But lets look at this one...
"It is lawful for you to go in unto your wives during the night preceding the (day's) fast: they are as a garment for you, and you are as a garment for them."

So wives have no say in the matter, if she says no OH WELL ALLAH SAID YES. But also notice the wives are a "Garment" so wives are just a piece of clothing. What happens to clothing, it gets warn out, it get's soiled it gets thrown in the trash.

Yes once again Islam FAILS.

One more thing, we Christians are to love are wives as Christ loved his church. How much did Christ love his church? He loved it to the point of suffering and dying on the cross. So that is how much we are to love our wives.

Sorry but you get to use and abuse yours and then just like a garment when it get's old, worn out, and soiled you can thow it away in the trash and get a new one.

Radical Moderate said...

@Anon who wrote...

"Is it a sin in islam for a husband to force his wife into having sex if she says NO? - Yes"

Can you bring your proof? If that is the case then why is there no laws to punish husbands who rape their wives?

Let me ask you this is it possible in Islam for a Muslim husband to rape his wife?

As far as my evidence I already posted a article on those that wish to change the law in Lebanon where voted down by the Islamic council because such a law is considered "HERESY".

As far as your other question FFM has already done a brilliant job of answering you.

Radical Moderate said...

@Ali you wrote...

"and as for lebanon, thats why i support hezbollah. lebanon btw is a christian country. so christian propoganda is quite prominent."

I thought you were a SHIA.

Yes Lebanon is Christian???? LOL yeah "Lebanon's highest Sunni Muslim authority...Dar al-Fatwa" is a Christian propoganda organization LOL.Really?????

@Yahya Snow and other Sunni Muslims. Did you see what this Shia called the Sunnah of the Prophet, he called them Christians. YOu going to let him insult the Sunnah like that?