The Facts About Islam: Mike Licona

Wednesday, 12 April 2017

Solas CPC Rebuked by Muslim

This was a testament to the inconsistent way in which minimalists in the apologetics community argue, specifically minimalists who rely on Dr Mike Licona.

Dr Andy Bannister shared his Solas video on the resurrection story on a FB group:

Did Jesus really rise from the dead? The story of Jesus’ resurrection is central to Christianity but few people are aware that there are powerful historical reasons for believing in it. This Easter, perhaps the choice isn’t lazy skepticism or blind faith, but faith in the Jesus of history. This latest SHORT/ANSWERS episode will help you see Easter in a fresh light

My response to Dr Bannister was to probe his views on the biggest resurrection story in the Gospels (that of the many saints in Matthew):

Wonder if Dr Bannister believes in the biggest resurrection story in the Gospels. That's the one of the many saints in Matthew. Clearly folks at that time were making up resurrection stories - Matthew clearly did make up the biggest resurrection story. So if they could make up the biggest story about resurrection what of the story about Jesus? Hmm

Dr Andy Bannister’s response was polite enough but he did fall in to obvious inconsistency by picking on my use of Prof Geza Vermes and describing it as inconsistent as I don’t agree with all of the late Prof. Vermes’views.

Thanks, Yahya. In return, perhaps I should ask if you agree with Muslim scholar Tarif Khalidi that the Qur'an's presentation of Jesus is "non-historical" and "not historical, but an argument" — see Khalidi's excellent little book "The Muslim Jesus". On the issue above, have a read of Mike Licona's massive https://www.amazon.com/Resurrection-Jesus.../dp/0830827196 — it covers the issues you raise among others. (I'm intrigued to find you recommending Geza Vermes, given the implications of what he argues for the Islamic view of things ... you wouldn't be cherry-picking, now, would you? :-)

Now, this notion that anybody you cite must agree with everything you believe is a fallacy. Nobody holds to this notion – it’s simply an apologetics stick to try and beat one’s opponent with. Even Christians like Dr Bannister don’t hold to it when they quote their Bible: Jesus and Paul didn’t believe in the Trinity so I guess Dr Bannister will not be quoting any purported words of such men. However, Dr Bannister cites Dr Mike Licona which puts Dr Bannister’s position in hot water as Dr Mike Licona has some very interesting views which I’d love to hear whether Dr Bannister agrees with Dr Licona:

Dr Bannister, it seems you're guilty of what you're accusing me of. Cherry picking :)

I assume you agree with everything Khalidi believes? In that case you wouldn't be a Christian...

I find it fascinating you cite Dr Licona and also talk about using scholars who agree with all of one's worldview. OK guess you will follow Dr Licona in believing the Gospel attributed to Matthew may have been changed and heavily edited https://youtu.be/nO1pwBu5oUA

Whilst we are at it, I assume you also believe the NT could change in the future with the addition of another book https://youtu.be/fDhIvM9Bz5E

And you also believe Mark (who traditionalists believe was inspired by God) was confused https://youtu.be/x3ZfpeHZXqY

Guess you also agree with Mike on the 4th century doctrine of the Trinity - you don't know whether it is something a Christian has to believe https://youtu.be/6cYAlQF829k

And how about the fact Paul of Tarsus thought Jesus was going to return in his own lifetime before he began to have second thoughts..

https://youtu.be/YRK8TJH-TcI

Look, we can all play cute games of oh if you quote such and such guy then you must believe everything he says. Life doesn't work like that.

At the end of the day we need to start looking at the theology of Christians and start asking whether it conforms to the theology of Jesus. Jesus didn't believe in the Trinity, so why do you believe in it? Jesus didn't believe in blood sacrifice, why do you believe in it?

Theology matters. Let's discourage folks from being bound by the religion of their friends of family because of some sort of indentitarianism - let's encourage truth seeking. Ask yourself about the Trinity. If the doctrine of the Trinity is refuted it shows Christianity to be a false ideology. It has been refuted. Nobody in the first century had any knowledge of this ideology. This is so important for Christians to see, associating partners with God is a departure from the 1st commandment. Please look into this. I say this because I care. I say it with a loving heart.

Analysing Richard Lucas' Heretical Understanding of Trinity

Solas' Andy Bannister Presenting Intellectually Dishonest Arguments on New Testament Reliability

Christian Missionaries and Pakistan's Valentines Day Ban

A Muslim's Thoughts on Solas CPC's + Other Christian Campagins Against Same Sex Marriage in the UK

Did Ignatius Teach the Trinity?

Thoughts on the Hamza Myatt, Liz Mooney, Chris Claus and Jonathan McLatchie Exchanges

British Muslims Protested to Defend Jesus p

Sharia Law against terrorism

Christians having dreams and converting to Islam

Conversions to Islam

Learn about Islam

Email: yahyasnow@yahoo.co.uk

Sunday, 19 March 2017

Mike Licona Rebuked by Muslims: Spreading Deceit About Shk Ahmed Deedat

The spin around the speculation that Shk Ahmed Deedat read a bit from Josh McDowell’s book before he passed away is outlandish. It’s disappointing to see somebody like Dr Mike Licona spreading such intellectually dishonest suggestions.

Mike Licona stated “Deedat was apparently having second thoughts about Islam and was taking another look at Jesus”. He bases this wild-eyed suggestion on speculation that Shk. Deedat read a portion from Josh McDowell’s book the day before he passed away.

This claim was out to Shk. Ahmed Deedat’s son who responded by dismissing it as deception and a ploy to promote Josh McDowell’s book. Shk. Deedat’s son also indicated Shk. Deedat would never leave Islam.

It’s well known Shk. Deedat was debating Christians and propagating Islam on his sick bed thus it would come as no surprise that he would read Christian missionary literature as it would be part of his research and debate preparation. Mike Licona and other Christian apologists read material from the likes of Bart Ehrman and Richard Dawkins as part of their apologetics research and debate preparation, it would be dishonest to suggest they were having second thoughts about their faith based on them simply reading such material. Mike Licona should be able to see how wild and deceitful this claim is!

Sadly, Licona doesn’t appear to be the only one who is passing on deceitful rumours about Shk. Deedat. Dr Nabeel Qureshi, in his book, does inform us of "other" people spreading the absurd rumour that Shk. Ahmed Deedat repudiated Islam whilst on his sick bed.
Let’s be clear here, these “other” people who claim Shk Deedat repudiated Islam on his deathbed are internet trolls. There’s no evidence for this whatsoever.

In fact just by reading his biography or news reports concerning Shk. Deedat’s passing away people can see this claim is a load of nonsense as he was serving Islam even whilst bed-ridden up to his passing away:

August 8 marks 10 years since Deedat’s death of kidney failure at the age of 87. He was bedridden for the final 10 years of his life, after suffering a stroke that left him paralysed and unable to speak.

Though doctors initially gave him little chance to live, Deedat continued to engage in religious work until his death – communicating by using a grid of the alphabet, which he used to spell out words letter-by-letter by signalling with his eyes. [Al Jazeera]

For more in response to Nabeel Qureshi's comments on Shk Deedat please see here

It could well be that this rumour which "other" people were spreading evolved from wishful claims by Josh McDowell:

Josh McDowell said: Amazingly, a close relative of his came to me a few years ago when I was visiting South Africa and said, “I felt you needed to know some details around the death of Ahmad. The day before he died, he asked me to find a copy of your book More Than A Carpenter. So, I brought it to him and he read some of it.” We won’t know until after this life, but there’s a chance Ahmad Deedat is in heaven.

Josh McDowell in this public statement doesn’t go as far as Mike Licona. Mike Licona appears to spin Josh McDowell’s wishful speculation into a suggestion Shk. Deedat was having doubts about Islam. Mike’s comments are certainly deceitful - whether he got them from somebody else or whether he instigated such spin is for him to disclose. Josh McDowell is irresponsible with his comments – they too are misleading. Josh McDowell would surely know that apologists do read material from the other side in order to produce responses to their claims.

What we have here is at least two big name Christian apologists who should be ashamed of themselves. Mike Licona will, if consistent, call himself a “deceitful character and he will also say the same about Josh McDowell seen as he called a Muslim such for simply adopting the logical conclusion, based on Mike’s podcast comments, of Mike believing there’s a false prophecy in the New Testament from Paul of Tarsus.

Mike Licona, at the very least, should apologise publicly.