Showing posts with label Old Testament. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Old Testament. Show all posts

Friday, 8 September 2017

Is Genesis 22 a Messianic Prophecy?


Genesis 22 is the Biblical account of Abraham being tested in sacrificing his son. It begins:

After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” 2 He said, “Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”



This video is also uploaded here and here

Some Christians think this account is a prophecy or foreshadowing of Jesus being crucified. A few points in refutation from rabbi Michael Skobac and rabbi Tovia Singer as per the video:

1. The Old Testament teaches nobody can die for somebody else’s sins and innocent person cannot die for the sins of the wicked. Ezekiel 18:13 and 18:20-23

2. Human sacrifice is not biblical. “It (human sacrifice) is forbidden and an odious abomination” – rabbi Tovia Singer.

3. If early Christians believed Genesis 22 was a foreshadowing of Jesus’ crucifixion why did Paul not mention this? This notion did not occur to any writer in the Bible. This notion is a fabrication which comes from the author of a forgery called the Epistle of Barnabas (non canonical book). This book almost made it into the canon. It was also advanced by a Catholic church father, Justin, in the 2nd century. The key point is why is this idea not in the NT? Why didn’t one of the authors not put this into the Bible? Aren’t these protestants who believe in sola scriptura? There seems to be an evolution of thought as time progressed.

4. In Genesis 22 it mentions, in the opening, that God tested Abraham. It announces clearly what this chapter is about, testing Abraham’s faith.

5. Michael Skobac mentions the way Christians view these passages is an approach which works backwards. Nobody reading Gen 22 prior to Christianity would have thought this was a prophecy about the Messiah.

6. It can’t be speaking about Jesus, it’s clear from the passage that this offering is meant to be a burnt offering. Obviously Christians don’t believe Jesus was burnt.

7. There’s no indication that this offering in Gen 22 was for sin.

8. When John (in his Gospel) announces Jesus as the Passover lamb it’s peculiar as this lamb was never brought for atonement of sin in Jewish practice. It was brought for commemoration of an event in Jewish history. The most appropriate analogue would have been the Yom Kippur scapegoat as this was the only animal which bore the sins of all the people (the others were limited) but this scapegoat is not said to be killed in the Bible (it’s sent off into the wilderness).

9. In verse 13 of Gen 22, this story is fulfilled. Abraham sacrifices the lamb. 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram, caught in a thicket by his horns. And Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son.

Did Jesus Die For The Sins Of Mankind? - Rabbi Tovia Singer

Is Islam to Blame for Grooming Gangs? Right Wing Refuted!

Can Church Father Quotations Reconstruct the New Testament?

Tovia Singer: Does the New Testament Teach Jesus is God?


Is Limited Atonement Doctrine Taught Clearer than the Trinity Doctrine in the New Testament?

Does Jesus use Violence and Force According to Trinitarian Christianity?

Analysing Richard Lucas' Heretical Understanding of Trinity

Synoptic Gospels and the Idea of a Pre-Existent Jesus?

Paula Fredriksen: Paul was NOT a Trinitarian

Wayne Grudem Shoe-horning Partial Trinitarianism into the Old Testament

Edgar G Foster: Trinity Came After the Council of Nicea

Tovia Singer: Does the New Testament Teach Jesus is God?

Why Islam


Wednesday, 11 January 2017

Old Testament or Matthean Prophecies?


...Matthew claims the Messiah was going to be called a Nazarene:

21 So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, 23 and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene. (Matt 2:21-23)

Like other prophecies quoted by Mathew, there is a serious problem with this prophecy: it does not occur anywhere in the Old Testament!

I had been suggested that the use of “prophets” instead of “prophet” in the passage above is Matthew’s way of indicating that he is giving “a paraphrase of the sense of more than one passage rather than a quotation of a specific verse” (Miller, 2003; 115; also Davies & Allison, 1988:275). There is no evidence that this is the case, as 2:23 is the only prophecy that Matthew attributes to the unidentified “prophets”. Of the remaining 12 alleged prophecies that Mathew quotes , 6 are attributed to Prophet Isaiah, 2 to Jeremiah, and 4 to an unidentified “prophet”. It is unclear which “prophets” Matthew meant, but there is no evidence that the use of this plural term indicates that Matthew paraphrased more than one Old Testament passage. [ See: The Mystery of the Messiah, Louay Fatoohi, Loc 2080]

Matthew links Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem to a prophecy:

As they approached Jerusalem and came to Bethphage on the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, 2 saying to them, “Go to the village ahead of you, and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with her colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3 If anyone says anything to you, say that the Lord needs them, and he will send them right away.”

4 This took place to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet:

5 “Say to Daughter Zion,
‘See, your king comes to you,
gentle and riding on a donkey,
and on a colt, the foal of a donkey.’”[
a]
6 The disciples went and did as Jesus had instructed them. 7 They brought the donkey and the colt and placed their cloaks on them for Jesus to sit on. 8 A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, while others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road.9 The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted,
“Hosanna[
b] to the Son of David!”
“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”[
c]
“Hosanna[
d] in the highest heaven!”
10 When Jesus entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, “Who is this?”
11 The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.”
[Matt 21:1-11]

The Prophet that Matthew mentions in Zechariah:

Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion!
Shout, Daughter Jerusalem!
See, your king comes to you,
righteous and victorious,
lowly and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
[Zech 9:9]

The Hebrew text for this Old Testament prophecy talks about one animal which is described twice, but its Greek translation uses “and”, meaning two animals instead. Matthew relied on the Greek translation of the Old Testament so he made Jesus ride on two animals. He had to change the earlier part of the story to make Jesus order his two disciples to bring a donkey and a colt. The fact that Jesus could not have ridden on two animals at the same time did not bother Matthew!

Significantly, the versions of this story in the other three Gospels, which are not influenced by the Zechariah prophecy, are different. According to Mark (11:2,7) and Luke (19:30, 35), Jesus wanted and rode a colt. John (12:14), on the other hand, states that Jesus found and rode a donkey. This is yet another example of how Matthew fine-tuned his Gospel to fulfil Old Testament prophecies.

It is also significant to note that, unlike Matthew, none of the other three Evangelists link Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem on a colt to the prophecy in Zechariah, or indeed to any other supposedly Messianic passage.

...Matthew’s fascination with linking events in Jesus’ life to alleged Old Testament prophecies aims o show that Jesus was the fulfilment of those prophecies. This link, the Evangelist thought, would strengthen the believers’ faith and convince the Jews that Jesus is the awaited Messiah and would make them follow him. Matthew was so keen on pursuing his endeavour that he often distorted and misused Old Testament passages. He changed them and took them out of context to make them fit his purpose. He even made them up! [See: The Mystery of the Messiah, Louay Fatoohi, Loc 2114]


Wednesday, 29 June 2016

Luis Dizon's "Only Conclusion" on Genesis 1:26 Discussed


Luis Dizon contends Genesis 1:26 can only be concluded as a reference to plurality of persons in the being of God (with a strong intimation this plurality is the 3-self Trinity belief). Here's his conclusion with the assistance of Gleason Archer:

It is also important to note that the Trinity does not occur exclusively in the New Testament, but can be traced back to the Jewish scriptures (the Old Testament, which came centuries before Christianity). Several times in these scriptures, God speaks in the plural. A prominent example of this is close to the beginning of the Bible, where God says, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness...” (Gen 1:26, cf. 3:22, 11:7). It also appears in the book of the Jewish prophet Isaiah. Here, God asks, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us” (Isa 6:8)? The common Muslim argument when faced with these verses is that God is using the plural of majesty, which is a custom in which a royal figure speaks in the plural. Muslims argue that since Allah frequently speaks this way in the Qur’an,141 then the same must be the case in the Old Testament. However, this explanation is anachronistic, because the plural of majesty is not used anywhere in the Old Testament. In fact, the concept did not even exist until after the Old Testament was completed. As biblical scholar Gleason Archer notes:


This first person plural can hardly be a mere editorial or royal plural that refers to the speaker alone, for no such usage is demonstrable anywhere else in biblical Hebrew. Therefore, we must face the question of who are included in this “us” and “our.” It could hardly include the angels in consultation with God, for nowhere is it ever stated that man was created in the image of angels, only of God. Verse 27 then affirms: “and God [‘elohim]created man in His own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female He created them” (NASB). God—the same God who spoke of Himself in the plural--now states that He created man in His image. In other words, the plural equals the singular. This can only be understood in terms of the Trinitarian nature of God. The one true God subsists in three Persons, Persons who are able to confer with one another and carry their plans into action together—without ceasing to be one God.142

On the basis of this information, the only conclusion we can come to is that the passages where God speaks in the first person plural demonstrate a plurality of persons within the being of God.


Problems raised for Luis Dizon and Gleason Archer

1. There are other Christians with differing interpretations and thus do not share Luis Dizon's view that an idea of plurality of personhood is the "only conclusion" nor Gleason Archer's appeal to the Trinity belief (which ironically is anachronistic in itself!)

2. Plurality doesn't necessarily mean 3. As we know the plurality of 3 did not become recognised until at least 381 CE. For those wondering why not 325 CE? "The Nicene Council only concluded that the Father and Son are ontologically one: it did not include the Holy Spirit in the co-substantial relationship supposedly obtaining between the Father and Son" [Edgar G Foster]

3. The suggestion there's no other examples of a Majestic Plural in the Hebrew scriptures may well be inaccurate - see the discussion on this below. In any case, why would an absence of a "royal we" used by a king in the Hebrew scriptures demarcate the absence of such a usage in Hebrew all together? It wouldn't. An absence of evidence is not absence of evidence. Luis Dizon is committing a logical fallacy; argument from ignorance.

4. Confusion for 14 centuries. This point of confusion is a philosophical headache for Trinitarian apologists. 1 Cor 14:33 states "for God is not the author of confusion" yet Luis' conclusion would imply there was confusion for 14 centuries (evangelical Christians believe Genesis was written 1400 years ago). In fact the duration of confusion would be greater still as the Trinity was developed from the 4th century onwards so the implication in the Trinitarian Christian worldview is that God left people in confusion about Him and Genesis 1:26 for 18 centuries!

Thus all those faithful believers and Prophets, including Moses who is traditionally considered to be the author of Genesis amongst evangelical, were all left in confusion concerning this supposed plurality being taught in Genesis 1:26!

CAN YOU NOT SEE THE PROBLEM HERE?

Let's drive this problem home further still. In Exodus 33:11, it is taught Moses had the Lord speak to him face to face as one speaks to his friend. Despite this, the Trinitarian narrative contends Moses did not know about true the nature of God; that's to say he had a deficient understanding of God because he was unaware of the Trinity belief.

Isaiah 41:8 describes "Abraham as God's friend "But you, Israel, My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, Descendant of Abraham My friend," yet Luis' theory would have us believe Abraham, too, had a deficient understanding of God as the Trinity, according to the evangelical narrative was not revealed during Abraham's time.

Do Luis and others who argue for the Trinity in Genesis 1:26 not see the problems that come with such assertions?

Let's concentrate on providing some divergent views on Genesis 1:26 to show Luis' view that it's the "only conclusion" one can arrive at to be baseless:

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges o Genesis 1:26

Commentary from the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges surveys a number of explanations put forward over the years for "let us make" in Gen 1:26. Interestingly, the Trinity explanation is considered untenable:

Until recently, the traditional Christian interpretation has seen in the 1st pers. plur. a reference to the Three Persons of the Blessed Trinity. The requirements of a sound historical exegesis render this view untenable: for it would read into the Book of Genesis the religious teaching which is based upon the Revelation of the New Testament.

At the culmination of the list of various explanations the commentary concludes "The two last explanations appear to be the most probable". The last two being:

1. Use of the Plural of Deliberation
2. The old Jewish explanation that God is addressing the inhabitants of heaven

Dr Michael Heiser on Genesis 1:26 and the name Elohim

Michael Heiser gives his explanation, which differs and agrees with the more common:

(27) So God created (the verb is SINGULAR) man in his own (a third masculine SINGULAR suffix in Hebrew) image, in the image of God - we know this is singular as well from context - the preceding suffix tells us he created (the verb is SINGULAR) him; male and female he created (the verb is SINGULAR) them.

Conclusion – from the TEXT:
God announced to his council his idea to create mankind (“hey, guys, let's do this!” – a sort of exhortational declaration), then HE (and he alone, by virtue of the GRAMMAR) created humankind in HIS own image (not theirs).


He also explains the history of the name Elohim which does away with the idea that Elohim refers to a plurality in personhood:

It is of course true that "elohim" is MORPHOLOGICALLY plural (morphology refers to the construction or "shape" of a word). The - im ending of elohim makes the noun plural. As Psalm 82 (see above) tells us, elohim CAN be plural in the Hebrew Bible. The same psalm, though, also has elohim as a contextually clear SINGULAR (the morphologically plural word came to be used as a proper name for a singular deity).

NIV Study Bible and Liberty University on Genesis 1:26

Rabbi Tovia Singer offers a list of authorities for evangelicals who do not espouse such conclusions about the Trinity being in Genesis 1:26. His list includes Liberty University's commentary on the Bible, NIV Study Bible amongst others. You can check this for yourself. Here's a snippet which shows another Christian authority siding with one the traditional Jewish views on Genesis 1:26 rather than what Luis Dizon and Gleason Archer contend:

Yet, the NIV Study Bible also confirms in its commentary on Genesis 1:26,
Us… Our… Our. God speaks as the Creator-king, announcing His crowning work to the members of His heavenly court

Edgar G Foster on Genesis 1:26

Edgar G Foster discusses this in his summary of Alan J. Hauser's views on Gen 1:26, which militates against the Luis Dizon's "only conclusion"

Hauser expands on this argument. He does not think that the use of the Elohim in Genesis 1:26 proves that Genesis teaches God's triunity. One reason that Hauser concludes this has to do with the Hebrew word Elohim. Granted, Elohim is morphologically plural as are "us" and "our." But these words, while they might seem to indicate plurality, definitely do not suggest triunity. It must also be kept in mind that in Hebrew it is common for the plural noun to cause the verb to be plural (Cf. Genesis 20:13, 35:7). E.A Speiser therefore renders Genesis 1:26 as follows: "The God said, 'I will make man in my image, after my likeness.'"

In the same piece, Foster also cites Charles Ryrie. Ryrie talks about the use of plural pronouns with relation to God; he offers a striking observation in that there is no limitation to indicate a plurality is only three (i.e. the Trinity). Problem. In addition, from Tovia Singer's survey we see Ryrie considers Genesis 1:26 to be the Plural of Majesty, thus he too disagrees with Luis Dizon's "only conclusion" hypothesis.

Plural of Majesty

Gleason Archer, as Luis Dizon mentions, believes there's no other use of plural of majesty in the OT. Now, this is not a major point of contention but from Jason Dulle it appears there may be some candidates for the use of the royal plural elsewhere in the Hebrew scriptures. Dulle gives possible examples from Ezra and Daniel

The second theory is that the plural pronouns are used as a "majestic plural." This type of language was typically used by royalty, but not exclusively. Biblical examples include Daniel's statement to Nebuchadnezzar, "We will tell the interpretation thereof before the king" (Daniel 2:36). Daniel, however, was the only one who gave the king the interpretation of his dream. King Artaxerxes wrote in a letter, "The letter which ye sent unto us hath been plainly read before me" (Ezra 4:18). The letter was sent to Artaxerxes alone (Ezra 4:11), yet he said it was sent to "us," and was read before "me." Clearly the letter was only sent to, and read to Artaxerxes. When Artaxerxes penned another letter to Ezra he used the first person singular pronoun "I" in one place and the first person plural pronoun "we" in another (Ezra 7:13, 24).

I'd be interested in knowing people's thoughts on these verses. I would like to reiterate, this is not the main thrust of my article, please do not allow this side piece to detract from the points above.

Conclusion

It is my hope this piece helps to give young Christian apologists and those who follow Trinitarian Christian apologetics some pause for thought.

Dale Tuggy considers the arguments for the Trinity in the Old Testament to be "crummy arguments". He's taken aback by evangelicals, who should know better, arguing for this position. In this video I interspersed clips of Tuggy with an evangelist - RZIM'S Nabeel Qureshi - discussing various standard Trinitarian contentions based on the Old Testament.

I'd appeal to Luis and others who may have been exposed to Trinitarian Christian contentions based on the OT like the one discussed in this piece to avail themselves of this video.



Thursday, 7 January 2016

Nabeel Qureshi: Is the Trinity in Genesis 1:26


Rabbi Michael Skobac and rabbi Tovia Singer tell us most Trinitarian scholars do not think this passage refers to a trinity. He also states the plural of  'Us' is either God addressing the angels or it's the use of the plural of majesty is not a reference to the trinity idea too.

Genesis 1
 26Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.…

Ravi Zacharias International Ministries' Nabeel Qureshi Refuted by Tovia Singer and Michael Skobac



If the video does not play please see here

Some Christian missionaries will say anything just for you to believe in the trinity idea. Don't switch your minds off. Don't be fooled by Christian missionary spin. In this video we see Nabeel Qureshi is in opposition with Christian and Jewish scholars. For Christians having dreams and converting to Islam please see:

Clips from:
Is the Trinity Biblical - Rabbi Tovia Singer
Trinity What the Bible Teaches - Rabbi Skobac
Why Jews are so turned off by the Trinity - Rabbi Yisroel

Did Jonathan McLatchie Copy Nabeel Qureshi?

Why is the Trinity doctrine so difficult to understand? - Dr. Shabir Ally answers Nabeel Qureshi

Nabeel Qureshi's Friend on Doctrine of Taqiyyah

Indonesian Muslims Converting to Christianity?

[QURAN MIRACLES] The Miracles of the Number 19 in Quran | Dr. Shabir Ally

ISIS Members Having Dreams of Jesus?

People having dreams and visions showing Jesus is not divine

Russell Brand Exposes Muslim Terrorism Percentage
 
 
 

Wednesday, 11 February 2015

Polygamy IS in the Bible - Christians Stop Being SCARED of Liberals


Can we have a proper discussion on Polygamy (polygyny, a man having more than one wife)? Rather than being pressurised by liberalism and modern day feminism can Christians look at these matters objectively?

Let's be honest, there's nothing wrong with a man having more than one wife. People such as Moses, Abraham and David are believed (by Christians) to have more than one wife. And these are Biblical heroes.

Rather than lazily and unjustly labelling these heroes as wrong-doers, why not have a proper discussion about what the Bible actually teaches? Do NOT be afraid of what the liberals and Western feminists may or may not say.

First focus on the Old Testament, there's nothing in there prohibiting the practice of having more than one wife. In fact the Old Testament regulates it! And then focus on the New Testament.

I've drawn up some notes from Mark Henkel's presentation 'Bible Never Created One Man One Woman Doctrine' below for ease of following and added some additional points.

National Polygamy Advocate, Mark Henkel goes through the Bible and presents an interesting case about the Bible.




Did the Old Testament ALLOW Polygamy?

Under the Old Testament Law Polygamy was never banned. It was simply regulated

If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. [Exodus 21:10]

15 If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love. 17 He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him. [Deuteronomy 21:15-17]

So this clearly shows the Old Testament did not prohibit the practice of Polygamy, it simply regulated it by giving rules of equal treatment.

Thus further showing the one-man one-woman doctrine is something new while Polygamy is certainly present in the Bible.

According to the Bible, God gave David wives

Mark Henkel says Moses had two wives., Abraham had three wives and that the twelve tribes of Israel were born of Israel's four wives.

Mark Henkel says David had numerous wives and according to the Bible, God gave David those wives and if he wanted more God would have given more:

8 I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. [2 Samuel 12:8]

Matthew 25, as mentioned by Mark Henker, contains a parable of a polygamous bridegroom.

Mark Henkel: Clearly the Bible never taught the anti-polygamy doctrine.

Adultery and One Flesh?

The prohibition on adultery is not given in English, it was given in Hebrew. Mark Henkel teaches the Hebrew word for 'adultery' means WOMAN who breaks wed-lock. Thus through the Hebrew we see that polygamy of a man marrying more than one wife is not adultery.

And we must also keep in mind Mark Henkel's important reminder of Christian belief, Moses is believed to have written down the Law prohibiting adultery yet he had more than one wife thus showing to Christians and Jews that polygamy of a man marrying more than one wife is NOT adultery.

As for the two will be one flesh. Mark Henkel states this does not mean you cannot be one flesh with more than one woman as Moses was.

Mark Henkel points out that the Bible also teaches one can become 'one flesh' with a prostitute. Mark Henkel contends this means that the person can be 'one flesh' with his wife and 'one flesh' with a prostitute.

16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b] 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit. [1 Corinthians 6]

Mark Henkel believes the understanding of adultery and the one-flesh passage are not in contradiction with Polygamy.

Ruling for Kings in Deuteronomy 17?

The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the Lord has told you, “You are not to go back that way again.” 17 He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold. [Deuteronomy 17:16-17]

Some Christians may use Deuteronomy 17:16-17 to argue against polygamy but is this an intellectually honest  argument?

Firstly, the passage is speaking about kings (not everyday people) and secondly the instructions are do not take a great number of horses and many wives. Of course, a king will have more than one horse so it does not seem to be a teaching of do not take more than one. Perhaps it's a teaching of do not be extravagant and have a great number of horses and wives. So it seems like the kings can have more than one wife and more than one horse.

The Husband of One Wife and 1 Timothy

1 Timothy 3:2, 1 Timothy 3:12 and Titus 1:6 are not general prohibitions of polygamy. Mark Henkel says these are instructions only for Bishops, Elders and Deacons. Mark Henkel offers a further interpretation referring to the Greek, he believes this is a prohibition against divorce.

Something that Mark Henkel did not mention that I will touch on. 1 Timothy 4:12 is said to be teaching pastors to be an example to the believers. The anti-polygamy Christians will use this verse. However, is this really a teaching of direct imitation? If it was, then wouldn't all Christian believers have to become pastors? So to hang one's hat on this verse does not seem to be the best of logics. On top of this, the acceptance of 1 Timothy being from Paul is in question - New testament scholars dispute whether Paul wrote this. Professor Bart Ehrman believes it to be a forgery. Here's a little piece online that you may be interested in reading:

1 Timothy is one of the three epistles known collectively as the pastorals (1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus). They were not included in Marcion's canon of ten epistles assembled c. 140 CE. Against Wallace, there is no certain quotation of these epistles before Irenaeus c. 170 CE.

Norman Perrin summarises four reasons that have lead critical scholarship to regard the pastorals as inauthentic. Read more



Reveal Muslim Scholars Views on Rape For All

Respect: Pakistani Muslims in Bradford Protested Against Prostitution

Saturday, 22 March 2014

Polygamy in Christianity and Judaism

Polygamy is not a practice limited to the religion of Islam; rather, it is something well-known in the history of the People of the Book, the Jews and the Christians, as well.  It is only in later times that their religious men frowned upon it or forbade it outright.  However, when we look into the early history of these religions, we will find that it was at least an acceptable practice, if not encouraged.
 
Polygamy in Judaism
 
Polygamy existed among the Israelites before the time of Moses, who continued the institution without imposing any limit on the number of marriages which a Hebrew husband might contract. 
 
Let us look at some of the verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy:
 
In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.
 
In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.
 
In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
 
In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.
 
In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."
 
The Jewish Encyclopedia states "While there is no evidence of a polyandrous state in primitive Jewish society, polygamy seems to have been a well-established institution, dating from the most ancient times and extending to comparatively modern days "
 
Another common practice was the taking of concubines. In later times, the Talmud of Jerusalem restricted the number by the ability of the husband to maintain the wives properly. Some rabbis, however, counselled that a man should not take more than four wives.  Polygamy was prohibited in Judaism by the rabbis, not by God.  Rabbi Gershom ben Judah forbade polygamy in the 11th century yet polygamy is still in practice among the 180,000 Bedouin of Israel. It is also frequent among Jews living in Yemen, rabbis permitting Jews to marry up to four wives.  In modern Israel, where a wife cannot bear children or is mentally ill, the rabbis give a husband the right to marry a second woman without divorcing his first wife.
 
Polygamy in Christianity
 
History says that Polygamy was practiced among the Christians , it seems that there were some human resolutions that stopped it. In the eighth century Charlemagne, holding power over both church and state, in his own person practiced polygamy. St. Augustine seems to have observed in it no intrinsic immorality or sinfulness, and declared that polygamy was not a crime where it was the legal institution of a country. He wrote in The Good of Marriage (chapter 15, paragraph 17), that polygamy …was lawful among the ancient fathers……..". He declined to judge the patriarchs, but did not deduce from their practice the on going acceptability of polygamy.
 
During the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther said, “I confess for my part that if a man wishes to marry two or more wives, I cannot forbid him for it does not contradict the Scripture.” African churches have long recognized polygamy. Early in its history, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy in the United States.  Splinter groups left the Church to continue the practice after the Church banned it.  Polygamy among these groups persists today in Utah, neighbouring states, and the spin-off colonies, as well as among isolated individuals with no organized church affiliation.
 
According to Father Eugene Hillman, ‘Nowhere in the New Testament is there any explicit commandment that marriage should be monogamous or any explicit commandment forbidding polygamy.’ 
 
The Church in Rome banned polygamy in order to conform to Greco-Roman culture that prescribed only one legal wife.
 
In the Bible , Jesus never rejected the Old Testament but even allegedly said  "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17-18) .
 
There were some situations that imply that Jesus implicitly approved of  polygamy    according to Matthew 5:17-18 above, we clearly see that Jesus honoured the  Old Testament, and forces Christians to follow the unmodified laws of it that have not been replaced by newer ones in the New Testament.  The Old Testament as we clearly see above does indeed allow polygamy without a shadow of a doubt. There is not a single verse from the New Testament that prohibits polygamy. Jesus' parable allows polygamy between 1 man (the bridegroom) and 10 virgins (5 became his wives and slept with him)!  19:1-12  Jesus didn't ban polygamy.
 
No church council in the earliest Christian centuries opposed polygamy. St. Augustine clearl)'[sic] declared that he did not condemn it. Luther tolerated it and approved of the bigamous status of Philip of Hesse. In 1531 the Anabaptists preached polygamy and the Mormons of today believe in it (see Abd al Ati, The Family Structure in Islam, American Trust Publications, 1977, p 114 : Until this very day, the church in some African countries conducts the marriage of men to more than one wife. In Europe, the attempt to legally enforce monogamy and outlaw polygamy took place as late as the late sixth and early seventh centuries.
 
In Matthew 19:3, Jesus was asked " whether or not it is allowed for a man to divorce his wife.  Jesus immediately referred to the Old Testament for the answer in Matthew 19:4. According to this, man becomes a one flesh with his wife in Matthew 19:5-6, this doesn't mean that the man can't be one flesh with another woman.  He can be one flesh with his first wife, and one flesh with his second wife, and one flesh with his third wife and so on.
 
Excerpted with alterations from: Is it Islam alone that allows polygamy? By May Saleh and Magdy Abd AL-SHafy. See here for the entire article:
 
Polygamy is permissible in Islam, it's not compulsory (Sheikh Kamal El Mekki):

 

Christians having dreams and converting to Islam:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/christians-are-having-dreams-and.html

Invitation to Islam

Jesus taught people to do the Will of God (according to Mark 3:35) in order to become his brothers, mothers or sisters. A Muslim means one who submits to the Will of God. Do you want to become a brother of Jesus? If yes, become a Muslim.

Learn about Islam:
http://www.thedeenshow.com

Monday, 26 December 2011

How old was Mary when Betrothed/Married to Joseph? At what age was Mary pregnant with Jesus?

Prof. Geza Vermes
Earnest inquiry as to the age of Mary at the time of her betrothal (and marriage) to Joseph as well as the virginal conception (and birth) of Jesus (p) is clouded by the revisionist claims of Christian evangelists who are intent on representing a 21st century understanding of such customs. This is another reason why consulting scholarship in any enquiry is of paramount importance. Here we have the Jesus scholar, Professor Geza Vermes, breaking the barriers of evangelical revisionism with proper contextualisation of suchlike.

Christians and Jews: Arranged Marriages

Arranged marriages were the norm within Jewish societies prior to and contemporaneous to Jesus’ time. Thus, scholars like Geza Vermes are led to believe Mary’s betrothal to Joseph would have been arranged by a male relative at a young age.

To begin with betrothal, in Matthew (as in Luke) Joseph and Mary are said to be engaged. To appreciate properly the meaning of betrothal, it is to be remembered that in the Jewish society of the age of Jesus, arranged marriage was the established custom. The betrothal of a young girl was the prerogative of her father. If the father was no longer alive, his place was taken by the girl’s brother or some other male relative. The head of the family negotiated the financial settlement with the groom and his parents. The girl had no say whatever in the matter.

Betrothal of minors was a Jewish norm

Contrary to some of the apologetic material emanating from various Christian ministries, standard Jewish practice at the time was the betrothal of minors – females attained maturity at the age of twelve.
Quite apart from the subordinate status of women in Jewish Law, in the rabbinic era and no doubt earlier too, the bride-to-be was by definition a minor, a person not yet of age. It should be noted that in the Mishnaic-Talmudic legislation girls attained majority when they started to menstruate, or on the day after their twelfth birthday, whichever came first. In the rabbinic perspective, majority and attainment of puberty were coterminous. By the age of twelve years and six months a young woman became, in the terminology of the rabbis ‘mature’ (bogeret), and was expected already to be married. In any case, by then her father no longer had the right unilaterally to betroth her.

Vermes: Mary was no more than twelve (12) or a little younger

Again, cutting through some of the evangelical revisionism, according to Geza Vermes, Mary would have been twelve years of age (or a little less) at the time of her betrothal/marriage to Joseph and at the time of her giving birth to Jesus (p)

Once the preliminary requirements laid down in the agreement of betrothal were satisfied, nuptials followed: they were presumed to take place within twelve months from the date of agreement. Then the bridegroom led his bride to his own home amid solemn festivities attended by family, friends and neighbours. The Gospels contain various parables about Jewish weddings (see for example Mt 25:1-13). It would follow from these rules, which appear standard and long standing, and not some kind of innovation by the redactors of the Mishnah, that at the time of the incidents described in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, Mary was no more than twelve years old or conceivably a little less, and by the standards of her society and age, mature enough for marriage

Jesus’ views + Christian fundamentalist hypocrisy and folly

Christian evangelists should note there is no recorded condemnation of such practices from Jesus thus suggesting Jesus gave (at the very least) tacit approval of such marital customs.

Some of the riff-raff amongst Christian evangelists readily de-contextualise the marriages of Muhammad (p) to Aisha (ra) in order to direct an intellectually dishonest character-assassination attempt of Prophet Muhammad (p) yet fail to recognise this marriage was in similar vein to the Jewish customs at the time of Jesus. These evangelists fail to attack the Jews for such practices whilst attacking Muslims and Mormons (Joseph Smith) for the same custom.

Further still, the riff-raff amongst Western Christian evangelists fail to attack their fellow ‘Bible-believing’ forefathers as they were following similar marital customs:

Age is an additional requirement. Every jurisdiction mandates that a man and a woman must be old enough to wed. In the 1800s, the legal age was as low as 12 years old for females. Modern statutes ordinarily provide that females may marry at age 16 and males at age 18. Sometimes a lower age is permitted with the written consent of the parents. A number of states allow for marriage below the minimum age if the female is pregnant and a judge grants permission [Marriage: Legal Dictionary - http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/marriage]

Quotes taken from Jesus, Geza Vermes, Penguin Books, 2010, p. 64-65

May Allah send more Blessings upong Mary, Jesus and Muhammad. Ameen.

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Monday, 26 September 2011

What does ‘Son of God’ mean in the Hebrew Bible?

We’ve all been subjected to evangelical Trinitarian Christian material; the more you look into their claims the more you realize how far off the mark they are. The mere fact that there exists CHRISTIANS, who do not believe Jesus is God, is enough to spark further study of THEIR proof texts – the Bible. Here we can ponder upon the way evangelical Trinitarian Christians misuse the term ‘son of God’ whilst attempting to convince Muslims (and others) that a man (Prophet Jesus) is God Almighty.

The Jesus scholar, Geza Vermes, lifts the lid on the term 'Son of God' and what it actually means rather than the stuff churned out by evangelical Trinitarian Christians.

Common knowledge: ‘Son of god’ is figurative not literal

It is common knowledge that before the New Testament, the Hebrew Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls regularly speak of ‘Sons of God’ and occasionally refer to God in figurative speech as ‘begetting’ or ‘procreating’ a human being. [1]

‘Son of God’ used for ANY Jewish male who was pious

In the Bible and in writings produced during the centuries that followed the completion of the Old Testament, ‘Son of God’ occurs in a variety of meanings. In addition to the angels already discussed, among the humans ‘Son of God’ was the title of anyone believed in some way to be linked to God. Every male Israelite could pride himself on being a ‘son of God’, and reciprocally he was in a position to call God his Father. In the course of time the phrase was also applied – more and more restrictively – to the good Jews, to the especially holy Jews, culminating with the king of the Jews and finally with the Messiah, the most holy and powerful future ruler of Israel about whom we read in the Florilegium, one of the Dead Sea Scrolls, ‘I will be his Father and he shall be my Son. He is the Branch of David’ [2]

‘Son of God’ NEVER referred to a ‘man god’

Trinitarian Christians who promote Jesus to the status of God are found wanting with regards to the basic term ‘son of God’ as the scholar confirms the term does not refer to their idea of Jesus.
…It is universally agreed among experts that in Judaism the phrase [‘Son of God’] is always used metaphorically; it never designates a person who is believed to be simultaneously man and God, a human being who also shares in some way divine nature. [3]

Christian misinterpretation of Psalms

Here is another important point to be aware of whilst dialoguing with Trinitarian Christians, you may have come across some Christian missionaries citing Psalm 2:7 whilst proclaiming it as a verse denoting deity of Jesus; however, the Jesus scholar – Geza Vermes – highlights their misinterpretation

The Jewish king, while the monarchy existed down to 586 BC, and the awaited royal Messiah after the Babylonian exile, were systematically portrayed as engendered by the Deity: You are my son, today I have begotten you’, we read in Psalm 2:7 [4]

[1] The Nativity, Geza Vermes, Penguin, 2006. p53 and 54

[2] Ibid. p54

[3] Ibid. p54

[4] Ibid. p54

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Saturday, 13 August 2011

Jesus Ordered Killing of Apostates According to Christian Theology

Trinitarian Christians believe Jesus to be God whilst believing the whole Bible is inspired by God, thus they clearly believe Jesus ordered the killing of apostates who preach their new faith. Sadly, many Christians do not know of these teachings, Deuteronomy 13:6-9 clearly indicates Christians believe Jesus is orders the killing of apostates who preach a different faith:

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again. [Deuteronomy 13: 6-9 NIV]

So, according to Christianity, if somebody’s relative turns away from worshipping the Trinity and preaches the worship of “other gods” then they must be put to death. Thus meaning Christianity teaches the killing of ex-Christians who preach a different faith.

Fundamentalist Christians who stick by this teaching would support the killing of converts to Islam (from Christianity) who are currently preaching the worship of God rather than the trinity. Ex-Christian Muslim evangelists such as Yusuf Estes, Joshua Evans, Khalid Yasin, Dr Laurence Brown, Shadeed Lewis, etc. are all potential targets for fundamentalist Christians. Muslim brothers and sisters who are former Christians in America should exercise some caution as judging by the anti-Muslim vitriol stemming from American fundamentalist Christians there is no love nor concern for Muslims in their wicked hearts – their theology of Jesus ordering them to kill people who entice them away from Trinitarianism could well be used as a pretext to literally bash a few Muslims to death!

Destroy whole towns containing apostates

According to Christian theology Jesus orders the killing of all the inhabitants of a town where people have apostatized due to ‘troublemakers’ who preach other gods:

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[b] both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 [Deuteronomy 13:12-17]

Christian apologists will say these passages are no longer in use and were limited to Israel. Perhaps Christians who believe these passages are still relevant today and not limited to Israel will be using these Bible references to crack a few ex-christian skulls...

Bigots in the churches who spend their efforts in attacking Muslims would do well to look into Christian theology and the Bible before they talk...

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Saturday, 6 August 2011

Christians Embarrassed by Bible’s Hand Chopping - Deuteronomy 25:11-12…

We have mentioned the Bible passage teaching the amputatation of any woman who defends her husband against his assailant via a ‘low blow’ to his privates.

"[11] When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, [12] then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall have no pity.” [RSV Deuteronomy 25:11-12]

Now, it is obvious that this passage is teaching hand chopping for any woman carrying out such a low blow. Dr Hector Avalos points out most scholars agree with the obvious reading of the passage (i.e. chopping off the woman’s hand):

Most scholars accept a literal interpretation. For example, Tikva Frymer-Kensky stated the following on p. 1033 of A History of Ancient Near Eastern Law (2 vols.; Leiden: E. J. Brill, 2003), which Dr. Matt Flannagan had cited before:


“The penalty for injury is talionic retribution (Lev.24:19-20). The exception is the woman who protects her brawling husband by grabbing the other man’s testicles with force...Her hand is to be cut off (Deut. 25:11-12). Intention does not count, even though she tried to save her husband rather than injure the victim.” [1]

As Christians are busying themselves in repackaging their faith they have proceeded to reinterpret their scriptures to circumnavigate the passages which do not chime with Western norms (i.e. the passages they find to be embarrassing).

Ridiculous: It means shave her pubic hair not chop her hand off!

Embarrassed Christian, Dr Paul Copan, has offered an absolutely absurd explanation of Deuteronomy 25:11-12:

“...A more plausible interpretation of the passage is the punishment by depilation (‘you shall shave [the hair of] her groin’), not mutilation.” [1]

This Christian, Dr Copan, describes his explanation as “more plausible”. Is he for real? Does he really think the Biblical term “have no pity” can relate to shaving a woman’s pubic hair???

Moreover, how in the world would shaving a woman’s groin be related to a punishment for her injuring of a man via a low blow???

Dr Hector Avalos does thoroughly chide this Christian’s absurd reinterpretation of the Biblical passage here:
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2011/07/underhanded-biblical-interpretation.html

Nevertheless, expect the new age Christian flock spouting such odd reasoning in their attempts to pre-emptively strike at perceived Christian embarrassment

[1] Underhanded Biblical Interpretation: Deuteronomy 25:11-12 in Context by Dr. Hector Avalos

New Testament Studies for Christians and Muslims:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/search/label/New%20Testament

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Monday, 9 May 2011

Is the Trinity in the Old Testament?

This is old ground. We have already learned – via Christian scholarship – the Trinity is not in the Old Testament. Sadly, some neo-Trinitarian Christians insist the trinity is in the Old Testament – one such being a Christian zealot calling himself Keith Truth (Keith Thompson).

We showed Keith Thompson a clip where the Christian scholar William Lane Craig confirmed the Trinity is not in the Old Testament yet this zealot proclaimed Dr Craig was “wrong”.

You Decide – a Christian fundamentalist Vs Scholarship



Who do you want to believe; a young Christian zealot on the internet or scholarly authority?

Well, alongside William Lane Craig, Dr Laurence Brown and Harper Collins’ Encyclopaedia we have Bart Ehrman and James White to also tell us the trinity is not present in the Old Testament – the former mocks the argumentations of the neo-Trinitarian Christians who wrongly claim the Trinity is present in the Old Testament.

Dr James White on the Trinity

James White, as an evangelical Christian apologist from Alpha and Omega Ministries, believes the Trinity is revealed after the Old Testament but before the New Testament is written:

One of the most important truths to grasp about the Bible’s revelation of the Trinity is that the truth of the Trinity is revealed primarily in acts of God — specifically, in the Incarnation of Jesus Christ and in the coming of the Holy Spirit to indwell the church. The greatest proof that God is Triune is found in the ministry, death, burial, and resurrection of the Son of God and in the coming of the Spirit. These events took place between the writing of the Old and New Testaments. The Old Testament contains predictions and glimpses of what comes into clear view only in the ministry of Christ recorded in the New Testament. In the same way the Trinity is revealed before the writing of the New Testament so that is written by Trinitarians for Trinitarians. [Loving the Trinity by James R. White, Christian Research Center]

Dr Laurence Brown on the Trinity

Dr Laurence Brown does not believe the Trinity is in either the Old or New Testament

Rabbi Tovia Singer on the Trinity

To represent those who follow the Hebrew Bible (i.e. Jews) we can refer to Rabbi Tovia Singer who does not see any Trinity in the Old Testament.

Dr William Lane Craig on the Trinity

Dr Craig is a renowned Christian apologist and scholar, who upon reading the Old Testament, does not see any Trinity therein.

Professor Bart Ehrman on the Trinity

Professor Bart Ehrman mocks the manner at which some Christians promote the idea there is a trinity in the Old Testament. Ehrman does teach us the absence of the Trinity in the Bible has troubled Christian theologians for centuries. In fact, Ehrman teaches us there is no trinity in the ENTIRE Bible and the only reference to the trinity was the 1 John 5:7-8 forgery. Daniel B. Wallace writes:

The Trinitarian formula (known as the Comma Johanneum) made its way into the third edition of Erasmus’ Greek NT (1522) because of pressure from the Catholic Church. After his first edition appeared (1516), there arose such a furor over the absence of the Comma that Erasmus needed to defend himself. He argued that he did not put in the Comma because he found no Greek manuscripts that included it. Once one was produced (codex 61, written by one Roy or Froy at Oxford in c. 1520), Erasmus apparently felt obliged to include the reading. He became aware of this manuscript sometime between May of 1520 and September of 1521. In his annotations to his third edition he does not protest the rendering now in his text, as though it were made to order; but he does defend himself from the charge of indolence, noting that he had taken care to find whatever manuscripts he could for the production of his Greek New Testament. In the final analysis, Erasmus probably altered the text because of politico-theologico-economic concerns: he did not want his reputation ruined, nor his Novum Instrumentum to go unsold [The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8 by Daniel Wallace]

Conclusion

We could present more evidence against the claims of the Christian zealot (Keith Truth) but it would simply be a case of striking the carcass and I am beginning to worry that Keith will continue going against logic and scholarship regardless of the evidence against him.

The fact remains, the Trinity is not in the Old Testament according to honest scholarship and logical reading of the Old Testament.

Perhaps the real reason why we are seeing a glut of Christian fundamentalists absurdly claiming to possess “air tight” arguments for the Trinity being present in the Old Testament is due to the recognition of the confusion surrounding the Trinity:

For many Christians, the Trinity is an abstract principle, a confusing and difficult doctrine that they believe, although they are not really sure why in their most honest moments [Loving the Trinity, James R White, Christian Research Center]

Appendix

Let’s showcase the immature and unscholarly response from Keith Truth (Keith Thompson) to this blog post. Once our young friend, Keith Thompson, was done with throwing insults and immature ridicule our way he offered nothing of scholarly substance to back up his claims of “air tight arguments”, “fact”, "Dr Craig is wrong" etc...



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Friday, 29 April 2011

William Lane Craig; Old Testament and the Trinity, Fundamentalist Christian Apologist; Allah and Hubal

I’ve never really understood why the most zealous of Christian fundamentalists shun scholarship in favour of conjecture.

Here we have one of those young Islamophobic Christian apologists simply being unscholarly and presenting fanciful claims dressed up as “air tight” arguments. I introduce to you Keith Thompson (aka Keith Truth)



Note: If the video does not play please view here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb6ab6cw354

Allah is not an idol called Hubal

He is claiming Allah is Hubal (a pre-Islamic pagan idol) despite the fact true scholarship tells us the two were not the same. I guess Keith Thompson has been reliant on Islamophobes on the net for information – he has admitted he has been in consultation with an Islamophobe (Mr Shamoun) who claims Muslims can have sex with animals amongst other bouts of lunacy. Yikes!

Hey Keith, you may want to start shunning the lunacy on the net in favour of academics. Just a thought!

[See the video to see Keith Thompson’s Hubal theory debunked in a matter of seconds]

Is the Trinity in the Old Testament? No.

Keith Thompson is claiming he has “air tight” arguments for the “fact” of the Trinity in the OT.

Erm, somebody should have told him the world renowned CHRISTIAN apologist and scholar, William Lane Craig, does not agree with these “air tight” arguments of the Trinity being in the Old Testament. Though the scholar (William Lane Craig) believes the OT does not necessarily oppose the belief in the Trinity he admits if one reads the Old Testament he/she does not come away with the Trinity. Essentially the Trinity is not there – never mind being an “air tight” “fact”.

It appears Keith Thompson is over playing the neo-Trinitarian renditions of the Trinity being within the OT. Accuracy would dictate us to mention, neo-Trinitarians would point to verses which they believe to be allusions to the Trinity within the OT. Quite how Mr Thompson has elevated this to the level of “air tight” and “fact” is beyond us.

[See the video for the clip of William Lane Craig]

A word on the Angel of the Lord

Keith would do well to recognise our previous refutations of neo-Trinitarian claims of the OT angel of the Lord being God. I would suggest he further consults scholarship in the form of Samuel Meier on the said topic as well as common sense. Common sense is a fine thing.

Invitation to Keith

Keith, if you read Mark Siljander’s book you will recognise his admission that Jesus was likely to have used the word Allah (“Alah”) to refer to God. Consult scholarship on the historical practices of the early Christian communities – prior to Islam – you will note D. MacCulloch tells us Christians were praying in the manner of the Muslims and the use of prayer mats spanned from Syrian to Northumbria. Northumbria is a county in the UK. All this was before God revealed the Quran.

The real question is why were Christians praying like the Muslims prior to Islam? The answer is that they were simply following Jesus as Jesus worshipped Allah in the Muslim-style of prayer. I invite you to do the same – if it’s good enough for Jesus…

The choice is yours; do you want a relationship with the God of Jesus? If yes, come to Islam.

Keith avoid the crazed Islamophobes

You seem to have taken to much of the Islamophobic rhetoric which is banded about within extreme Christian circles. Don't be an Islamophobic - it's not healthy.

If you want to become a truth seeker you would do well to disassociate from the Islamophobic crowd and begin to research things for yourself. Oh, just in case some of the Islamophobes through concern that you are being swayed to the Truth decide to feed you with dribble of Muslims being allowed to lie to advance Islam through something called “taqiyya” try reading the scholarly truth about taqiyyah:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2011/04/truth-about-taqiyyah-takiya-taqiyya.html

Here is more info about Arab pagans prior to Islam:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/search/label/Pagans

Mike Licona on Gospel contradictions:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2011/04/mike-licona-are-there-contradictions-in.html

Full: William Lane Craig Discussion with Rabbi Tovia Singer on Lee Strobel’s show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmmNn6AHFfM&feature=related

Christian missionary Pastor converts to Islam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrvRaIZWijs

May Allah send His peace and blessings on all the Prophets. Ameen

Feedback: yahyasnow@hotmail.com

Sunday, 10 April 2011

Discussed: Variant Readings within the Bible and the Quran

Some internet Christian apologists have been shifting the goal posts in their conspiratorial attempts to attack Caliph Uthman’s control of the Quranic text as well as the variant readings of the Quran.

As usual, our Christian counterparts operate an unwitting double standard due to their ignorance of Old Testament (as well as New Testament) textual criticism as well as Quranic preservation

Variant readings in the Gospels

Previously, we have seen the New Testament (Gospel) variants arose due to dishonest scribes or incompetent scribes – so much so that our Christian friends, now, do not know which variants represent the original wording of the Gospel writers and which were due to scribal errors/forgeries.Christian apologists are now beginning to admit this difficult situation [1]

Christians misrepresent the Dead Sea Scrolls

At times, our Christian friends do misrepresent the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls as a wholesale confirmation of the Old Testament text – it is not!

Geza Vermes writes:

The Dead Sea finds partly confirm and partly question the reliability of the wording of the Bible handed down by Jewish tradition. On the one hand, as was shown in chapter VI, the Qumran Scripture is substantially identical with that passed on by the synagogue from the time of Jesus to the present age. [2]

Note: Vermes is not confirming the Dead Sea finds corroborate entirely with the present day OT (substantially). More importantly, he is not denying any OT corruptions prior to the first/second century CE either. Jeremiah 8:8 gives us an indication of the depth of corruption in the earlier days of the OT:

"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? [NIV, Jeremiah 8:]

Variant Readings in the Old Testament

Geza Vermes confirms “the Dead Sea Scrolls furnish documentary proof of what has been surmised before, namely that, prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, unity was not achieved and different forms of the Hebrew text coexisted, showing verbal and stylistic variations, additions, omissions and changes in the order of the textual arrangement.” [2]

Vermes does suggest the OT variants may not be due to corruptions:

Before the Qumran discoveries, we presumed the Samaritan Bible (restricted to the five books of the Law of Moses), the form of the Hebrew Bible from which the ancient Greek version, known as the Septuagint, was translated, and the type of the text that was to evolve into the traditional (Masoretic) Hebrew Old Testament, existed side by side in different social groups.


Qumran has corroborated this theory and has demonstrated the diversity could obtain in one and the same groups. This phenomenon implies that the variant readings in the biblical text do not necessarily represent corruptions or deliberate alterations, but can just as well, if not better, echo earlier discrete written traditions. [2]

Of course, this theory is more than a little sketchy – partly due to there being no tradition informing us of such being the case as well as to the limitations of Vermes’ conjecture-based argument.

Nevertheless, it is food for thought for our Christian and Jewish friends. Do they want to faith-shatteringly admit the Old Testament variants are proof of corruptions or will they run with the idea of the variants echoing “earlier discrete written traditions”?

I would imagine they would prefer the latter – otherwise they will have to admit the Old Testament’s unreliability is on par with the New Testament.

Variant Readings in the Quran

The variant readings of the Quran are not due to scribal errors or forgeries – unlike the New Testament. The variants of the Quran are meant to exist as supporting tradition teaches us this – unlike the Old Testament.

The hadith reports tell us that the Quran was actually revealed in seven modes (al-ahruf al sab’a). This has been narrated by more than ten of the Prophet’s companions, among them Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ibn Masud, Ibn Abbas and others [3].

Dr M.M. Al Azami counts the companions who have narrated hadiths confirming the Quran was revealed in seven dialects as over twenty [4] So, these variants were known to exist during the lifetime of the Prophet and did not arise due to scribal errors.

In fact, the very nature of the variant Quranic readings being sanctioned by the Prophet [see Bukhari VI, No. 513] has led the renowned authority, Dr M. M. Al-Azami, to favour the word “multiple” reading rather than “variant” reading:

…the Quran’s case differs distinctly because the Prophet Muhammad, Allah’s sole vicegerent for the wahy’s reception and transmission, himself taught certain verses in multiple ways. There is no principle of doubt here, no fog or confusion, and the word ‘variant’ fails to convey this. Multiple is a far more accurate description….” [4]

As you can notice, the Quranic variants (multiple readings) are indeed sanctioned and meant to have existed whilst the variants of the NT and OT are unsanctioned and should not exist. We urge our Christian apologist friends to understand these points of difference and teach them to their respective Christian congregations – let the truth prevail.

Unification

Our Christian apologist friends attempt to make a big conspiratorial deal out Uthman’s control and preparation of a standard copy of the Quranic text but they fail to recognise the inconsistency (as well as the holes in their knowledge) they are operating from as the rabbis controlled the OT text and even unified it.

Unity, produced by Jewish religious authority, was usually sought in times of crisis, and was achieved by the selection of one of the existing text forms and the simultaneous rejection of all other competing versions. Such a deliberate unification is assumed to have been part of the general restructuring of Judaism by the rabbis during the years following the catastrophe of 70 CE, which entailed the loss of the temple and the supreme council of the Sanhedrin as well as the replacement of the aristocratic high priestly leadership of Jewry by rabbis largely of plebeian origin. [2]

Sadly our Christian apologist friends are either unaware of the unification of the OT text and of the strict control the rabbis had over the text or are knowingly operating an inconsistent standard in their attempts to throw conspiratorial mud at the Uthmanic control of the Quranic text – a control which was agreed upon by all the companions of the Prophet.

Conclusion

Simply put, the New Testament variants are the most problematic; not only due to them being borne out of scribal dishonesty and negligence but because the Christian is unable to recognise the forgeries/scribal errors within the text. The text was not controlled and those who were tasked with the preservation of the Gospel accounts never met Jesus.

In addition there could well be future Dr Tischendorf style (Codex Sinaiticus) finds, where whole passages within the Gospels were discovered to be forgeries. Prior to this 19th century find our Christian friends believed those passages to be inspired – now we know they were forgeries [5]. It says something about the Christian belief in the Holy Spirit dwelling within Christians; did the Christians before the 19th century not have the Holy Spirit as they believed what we now know as forgeries to be words inspired by God. Food for thought…

The Old Testament was strictly controlled by the Jewish authorities and does contain variants. The accusations of these variants arising from scribal forgeries/errors are indeed somewhat tempered by Geza Vermes’ theorising so the criticism is less vocal.

Those who “preserved” and “selected” OT texts never met Moses or any of the Prophets. “what constitutes the bible is nowhere strictly defined in the ancient literary sources of Judaism. It was the privilege of the successive religious authorities (Sadducee chief priests, Pharisee leaders and rabbis) to determine the list of books [6]

The Quran has variants – Muslims have known this whilst the Quran was being revealed as the Prophet taught this. The Quran was strictly controlled by authorities, like the Old Testament. However, unlike the OT and NT, the controlling authorities of the Quran were indeed the companions of the Prophet. The statement of the fourth Caliph, Ali (ra), confirms all were in agreement with Uthman’s actions to control the transmission of the Text. [7]

Sadly, Christian apologists overlook these points and inconsistently attempt to present conspiracy theories as to the Uthmanic control of the Quran. The inconsistency comes into play as the OT was “preserved” in a “controlled” environment too. The irony comes into play as the nature of the variants (proven forgeries and errors) within the NT suggests the uncontrolled mode of its “preservation” was disastrous and a controlled mode (which they desperately criticise via conspiracy theories) is superior!

The written text of the Quran was used as an aid for the memory and teaching purposes, thus the Quran was preserved via two modes in a controlled fashion – oral and written – by numerous people who met the Prophet.

May God send his peace and blessings upon all the Prophets referred to above. Ameen

Further reading:

Sexism: A reason to change the Bible?

Feedback: yahyasnow@hotmail.com

[1] Debate Review – Does the bible Misquote Jesus (James White – Bart Ehrman)

[2] The Story of the Scrolls, Geza Vermes, Penguin Books, 2010, p214

[3] Ulum Al Quran, Ahmad Von Denffer, The Islamic Foundation, 2003, p112

[4] The History of The Quranic Text from Revelation to Compilation - A Comparative Study with the Old and New Testaments, M.M.Al-Azami, UK Islamic Academy, 2003, p154

[5] Dr Von Tischendorf discovered the Codex Sinaiticus (from Saint Catherine’s monastery), this codex does NOT contain the last 12 verses in the gospel of Mark (Mark 16:9-20) as well as John 7:53-8:11 amongst other discrepancies. These are believed to be forgeries. Sadder still, Christians, prior to this find believed those words to be faithful to the New Testament.

[6] The Story of the Scrolls, Geza Vermes, Penguin Books, 2010, p99

[7] Ibn Abi Dawud, al Masahif, p22; see also pp 12, 23 (sourced from Sheikh Al Azami, The History of the Quranic Text, UK Islamic Academy, 2003, p94