Sunday, 9 January 2011

Muslims Condemn Attacks on Coptic Christians

There are many Christians in Egypt and throughout the Muslim world. Are Muslims allowed to kill or maim them in terrorist attacks? NO!

Protecting the Copts, Condemning Terrorism

The video is by Jibreelk and the video description reads: Please make sure you visit our site at to watch the first show. Spread the word, spread this video, let them know what Islam really teaches. Please help us with any ideas and comments.

Muslims are Protecting and supporting Coptic men, women and children

Not only are Muslims speaking out against the evils of terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda but Muslims are going one step further and putting their lives on the line to protect Coptic Christians in Egypt

Muslims offer bodies as shields to protect the Coptic Christians

Muslim message to Coptic Christians

Please be wary of Islamophobic “Christians” on the internet, they seem to be reveling in the attacks on your community simply because the attacks are perpetrated by Muslims – it gives them a chance to bash Muslims and demonize Islam – that is what they care for. Their agenda is not one of love or co-existence; they are saber-rattlers who want to encourage America to invade and bomb more Muslim countries. These “Christians” are indeed divisive and have very little regard for the sanctity of life, please be wary of them.

Please also note, Al Qaida is a COMMON enemy of both Muslims and Christians. In fact, Al Qaeda kill BOTH Muslims and Christians. Muslim scholars have been sincerely opposing Al Qaeda for years.

Islam is for Middle Eastern Christians too



thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

Mash'Allah brother Yahya may Allah reward you. Akhi kareem I am asking you to help me to advertise for this please. (Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, Sheikh Yusuf Estes, Imam Zaid Shakir, Abdullah Hakim Quick, Sheikh Yasir Qadhi, Imam Sirwaj Wahaj) and many more to be there!
In Atlanta Georgia on the 14th and 15th Can we please put out a challenge to David Wood, et all to go there and do one of their video presentations?

I hope they do not get cold feet. Those people would be more than willing to interact with them...

May Allah bless you. I hope our sisters and brothers at answering ACTS could do the same.
Hidayah and toufeek.

As salamu 'alikum wr wb!

Anonymous said...

Sunday, January 9, 2011
Muslims Protect Copts During Christmas Mass
I've got some good news and some bad news. First, the good news. While it's rare to have any encouraging reports regarding the treatment of Christians in Muslim lands, there's been a positive development in Egypt. After the recent New Year's bombing of a Coptic church, some of the country's Muslims vowed to protect the Copts during their Christmas Mass. True to their word, thousands of Muslims protected Coptic churches on Christmas Eve.
Egypt’s majority Muslim population stuck to its word Thursday night. What had been a promise of solidarity to the weary Coptic community, was honoured, when thousands of Muslims showed up at Coptic Christmas eve mass services in churches around the country and at candle light vigils held outside.

From the well-known to the unknown, Muslims had offered their bodies as “human shields” for last night’s mass, making a pledge to collectively fight the threat of Islamic militants and towards an Egypt free from sectarian strife.

“We either live together, or we die together,” was the sloganeering genius of Mohamed El-Sawy, a Muslim arts tycoon whose cultural centre distributed flyers at churches in Cairo Thursday night, and who has been credited with first floating the “human shield” idea.

Among those shields were movie stars Adel Imam and Yousra, popular preacher Amr Khaled, the two sons of President Hosni Mubarak, and thousands of citizens who have said they consider the attack one on Egypt as a whole.

“This is not about us and them,” said Dalia Mustafa, a student who attended mass at Virgin Mary Church on Maraashly. “We are one. This was an attack on Egypt as a whole, and I am standing with the Copts because the only way things will change in this country is if we come together.” (Read more.)

Now for the bad news. According to the Qur'an, Muslims are commanded to fight unbelievers, and Muslims who side with Christians are to be treated as Christians.
Qur’an 5:51—O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Qur’an 9:123—O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

Qur’an 47:35—Be not weary and fainthearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you, and will never put you in loss for your (good) deeds.

Qur’an 48:29—Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves.

Hence, the Muslims who are siding with the Copts will now be targeted by Muslim terrorists. If they continue to defend the Copts, they will rightly earn the world's respect. But I wonder if they will continue defending Christians when the bombs and bullets start flying in their direction. Time will tell.

Unknown said...

Anonymous: Now for the bad news. According to the Qur'an, Muslims are commanded to fight unbelievers, and Muslims who side with Christians are to be treated as Christians.

This just goes to show that Islamophobes will always complain, regardless of whether Muslims are doing good or bad. Tell me this, how many years of learning and interacting with scholars did it take for you to come to the conclusion that the Egyptian Muslims' defense of Coptics is against the teachings of Islam?

Ali said...

actually anonymous copied that from answering muslims. david wood had an entry with those verses. those same verses us muslims are tired of trying to explain to him.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

Anonymous aka Anthony Rogers/Fat Boy Slim or whom ever else who did the copy/paste routine of answeringmuslims.

Guess what it doesn't take a whole of knowledge of academia to take anything out of context.

For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews,who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men (1 Thessalonians 2:14-15)

So I guess this must mean Alan Greenspan, Ben Bernake, George Soros, Joe Liberman, Al Franken, Joseph Liberman, Carl Levin, Henry Kissinger, Rahm Emmanuel, Natalie Portman, Wynona Ryder, Ben Stiller, Woody Allen, Dustin Hoffman, Billy Crystal, Barbara Streisand, Steven Spielberg, Adam Sandler

So I guess all those great Jewish conservative Jewish people who love Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and enrich American culture and advance the cause of Christ are not what they are cracked up to be according to the Bible eh Anom???

Radical Moderate said...

Very interesting video. And i will say it is a good thing that even in the depravity of Islam God has not completely removed his restraining hand from some Muslims.

I do have a question. I noticed that the phrase that this gentlemen as well as other Muslims use to condemn this act is "Protected Status"

First question: Does anyone know if the Egyptian Copts pay the Jizya tax?

Second Question: What are dhimi's being PROTECTED FROM in Islamic Countries?

Final Question: Do Muslims believe in they are the Best of Creation?

Ali said...

you mean the 1 dinar/year that mature men (not priests, elderly or insane) pay?

i dunno

Ali said...

TGV19 i've been amazed with your study of the bible. do you read on your own or do you have some sort of program or do you just plainly watch what christians do (like how sam shamoun called muslims dogs and you posted verse matt 7:6)?

Radical Moderate said...

Ali said...
"you mean the 1 dinar/year that mature men (not priests, elderly or insane) pay?"

Thank you for answering one of my questions. However the 1 dinar is the min, there is no defined maximum.

So what about my other two questions?

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

As salamu 'alikum wr wb brother Ali. First I want to say what a great job that you and the sister are doing with your site may Allah continue to reward you both.

I do allot of reading and mind mapping. I am going to start doing some youtube videos in the future.

I think the other thing is that we read allot of material by Muslims about Christianity and it's very important for us to genuinely look at what the Christians have to say and what they have written and weigh it just as we would like them to put down the polemical books directed towards Islam and to look at our faith from it's sources.

May Allah forgive my short comings and may we continue to all benefit from one another.

Anonymous said...

As Muhammad's wife Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing [Muslim] women" (Sahih al-Bukhari 5825).

Young Muslim women are often forced to lead double lives in Europe. They have sex in public restrooms and stuff mobile phones in their bras to hide their secret existences from strict families. They are often forbidden from visiting gynecologists or receiving sex ed. In the worst cases, they undergo hymen reconstruction surgery, have late-term abortions or even commit suicide.

Gülay has heard it from her mother so many times: An unmarried woman who has lost her virginity might as well be a whore.

Gülay, 22, lives in Berlin's Neukölln, a district that is home to a high number of Muslim immigrants, and has little in common with the cliché of the "girl with the headscarf." She wears tight jeans, low-cut blouses and has long hair that she doesn't keep covered. She is self-confident and looks people in the eye. Gülay plans to begin a training program to work as an airport ground hostess next year. At first glance, she comes across as a poster child for successful integration.

Nevertheless, she is adamantly opposed to seeing her name in print, just as she would never meet a journalist for an interview in one of the hookah bars in her neighborhood that are so popular among Arab and Turkish immigrants. She is worried that someone could overhear her talking about her family's strict morals, and about the rigid code of honor in her social environment that prevents girls from having sex before marriage and forbids them from having boyfriends.

Gülay is thinking about how best to sum up her dilemma. She nervously stirs her tea before launching into a litany of complaints. "The boys can screw around as much as they want, but if a girl does it she can expect to be shot," she says. "That's just sick." She first had sex five years ago, and it completely changed her life. Since then, she has been deathly afraid of being branded by her family as a dishonorable girl -- or, worst yet, punished and cast out. . . .

Sex education in school is also taboo for many young Muslim girls, says Gülay, who was the only one of 15 Muslim girls in her grade who attended the classes. Her fellow female students from the most devout families, says Gülay, "asked me all kinds of questions about how to use a condom and how to get the pill. Some of them didn't know anything at all." And some, according to Gülay, believed that all they had to do after having sex was to rinse themselves thoroughly with water. Others, especially "headscarf girls," only engage in anal sex with their boyfriends, believing that in this way they can protect their "honor," says Gülay.

Taking a boy home would almost be suicidal, say the girls at the youth club. The thought alone is so unheard-of that it triggers hysterical laughter. They rattle off the places where they have their rendezvous: hallways, park benches or the public restroom on Boddin Square in Neukölln, where person can get 20 minutes of privacy for 50 cents. Some girls are lucky enough to have a boyfriend with his own car or who can at least afford to pay €20 ($27) for a hotel room. (Read more.)

Unknown said...

Anonymous should get an award for his tireless crusade of copying and pasting.

Anonymous said...

The post by David Wood on this same subject over on the AnsweingMuslims blog speaks volumes. The guy is a nasty, disengenuous hate monger.

Muslims - keep doing what is right and don't let these islamophobic bigots jaundice your view of Christians - they are not all like Wood and co.

Well done to those Muslims who joined the Copts in solidarity against those who would want to drive a wedge between them.

Radical Moderate said...

Anonymous said...
"The guy is a nasty, disengenuous hate monger."

Why do you say that? He didn't right the article. So you want to kill the messenger?

The article highlights a very dangerous thing in the Muslim community. Muslim parents are not preparing there daughters for the world. It is shocking that there is no sexual education for Muslim girls.

But what is even more shocking is that the Muslim parents are not willing to meet the boyfriend. That causes them to sneak around.

Muslims you can not put your fingers in your ears and cover your head in the sand.

What good is it Muslims to have your Family Honor, if you loose your daughter, what good does your honor do if your daughter is dead.

Anonymous said...


"Muslims Condemn Attacks on Coptic Christians"

You see I, unlike you, are able to keep focus upon the topic being discussed.

However, seeing as you want to bring up that other article could you answer a simple question for me?

As a Christian should you condone and encourage sex before marriage?

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord...

Anonymous said,

"The post by David Wood on this same subject over on the AnsweingMuslims blog speaks volumes. The guy is a nasty, disengenuous hate monger." < This is one reason why my website/blog tends to be polemical in nature because we have such people as him.

Thank Alah not all Christians are like David Wood. You have Joel Osteen, David Duke, William Lane Craig, Rick Warren, John Piper, Josh McDowell, and a plethora of others who do not have to be nasty to engage us.

Thank Allah!

Anthony Rogers said...


I have not commented on this thread, but it has come to my attention that you mentioned my name, something I asked you not to do since when your lips move it usually involves a lie, a twisting of facts, or reflects some strange fixation for reading your perverted understanding into what others say, and displays a penchant for making unbecoming remarks about their children and/or their pets. You are a disreputable individual and I have not mentioned your name nor would I otherwise address you if it were not to beseach you to direct your slander elsewhere. Please consider...

I now turn you back over to the Fatman.

Radical Moderate said...

@ Anonymous said... Who said
"Muslims Condemn Attacks on Coptic Christians"

You see I, unlike you, are able to keep focus upon the topic being discussed."

Sir if you are the same Anonymous Muslim I was responding to then it is you who did not stick to the topic. If you notice my previous two posts were on the topic. I was simply responding to what you or another Muslim had said.

Now to answer your question "As a Christian should you condone and encourage sex before marriage?"

The answer Absolutely NOT. But you asked the wrong question. The question should not of been if I would condone such behavior, the question is how do you prevent such behavior. And the Muslim way of preventing that is the WRONG way because it is not preventing it, it is actually encouraging more deviant behavior.

So how would I prevent it. First by educating my Son and Daughter biblically. You can read my exogeet on Deut 22 that Yahya Snow has ignored.

Next, educate them on human reproduction, using both the home as well as the school. I'm no biologist and human reproduction is a topic that should be discussed not only in the home but also in the classroom.

These two things are nessasary so you can prepare and trust your daughter to make the right decision and choices.

Also and this is very important. Get to know the young womans love interest. Have them over for dinner and meet him.

Meet their family, make him apart of your family. Stress to the young man that you are trusting him with your daughter, your most valued possession. Make sure the young man understand not to disrespect you or your daughter by violating her.

Stress to your daughter that you are trusting her, and that it is not love to disrespect her or the family.

Also tied in with all this is well defined rules. An age for dating, 16 seems to be a good number. Chaperoned dates at first, definite curfew, and constant follow up to validate that trust.

Also it should be noted that the family of these young girls are depriving them of medical attention. Not seeing a GBYN????? That is just wrong and should be a crime.

Now things happen, so what if all the best parenting still leads to a bad decision and violation of that trust. DO NOT KILL THE GIRL. Let me say this again DO NOT KILL THE GIRL.

Instead the environment you want is one of love and trust. I want my child to come to me, not to a stranger, with any problem.

The Muslim way in this article does not provide love and especially does not foster trust.

This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that parents are denying medical attention, children are sneaking around behind their parents backs, some engaging in deviant sexual behavior, others covering up a pregnancy only to have a late term abortion with out the parents knowledge etc... etc...

This is clearly a failure.

Anonymous said...


"The answer Absolutely NOT"

Good at least we can agree on something.

".....parents are denying medical attention, children are sneaking around behind their parents backs, some engaging in deviant sexual behavior, others covering up a pregnancy only to have a late term abortion with out the parents knowledge etc... etc..."

Hmmmmmm, that description, unfortuantly, sounds just like the way of life for the majority of young adults who live in the Western world today.

Interesting that this type of behaviour only seems to effect Muslims when they live in these countries isn't it? These kinds of problems are actually very rare in Muslim majority countries where traditional values are upheld...

Western Christianity - This is clearly the failure FatMan. You are just too blind to see it.

Radical Moderate said...

@Anonymous said...

"Interesting that this type of behaviour only seems to effect Muslims when they live in these countries isn't it? These kinds of problems are actually very rare in Muslim majority countries where traditional values are upheld.."

You sure about that? Lets see a year ago in Saudi Arabia a woman was sentence to more lashes than her Muslim gang repasts because she appealed the original punishment of a 100 lashes.

Just a few days ago it was reported that another woman was sentenced to a 100 lashes because she tried to get a abortion in Saudi Arabia. She claims that she accepted a ride from a man who took her to a "REST HOME" were 4 men raped her.

You do know what a "Rest Home" is in KSA. Its a house that Saudi males rent to get away for a few days. To drink home made whiskey, sing dance and even engage in homosexual sex. And if a woman shows up well they don't have to engage in homosexuality. Ohhh joy.

Gay Jihad

It was just reported a few days ago that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is alarmed over the sharp increase of female suicides.


Abortions are happening in Muslim countries, there back door but they still happen.


More and more Arab woman are traveling from Arab countries to Europe to have there hymen replaced.

Re Virginization

Muslims you can only keep your head in the sand for so long.

The bottom line is that when ever you try to repress the natural, you create the un natural, which is un healthy.

Radical Moderate said...

Anthony Rogers

And I send TGV back to you. Love 40 :)

Anonymous said...

1 Corinthians 3:18

Muslim: Are you stupid or something.

Christian: Paul says stupid is as stupid does

Ali said...

fatman, 99% of muslim girls go to public schools where sex ed is taught.
99% of muslim girls attend mosques where education about sex is also taught.
99% of muslim girls AND BOYS do not have that boyfriend girlfriend crap christians do (thank God)
and its funny you mention honor killings. since this is NOT i repeat NOT david woods blog, i can't be blocked for exposing christians.
firstly, there is NOTHING about honor killings in Islam. secondly, theres 6 verses in your bible, including 2 in the NT (Matt 7:10, Mark 15:4) that condone the murder of children who don't honor their parents. on my blog i've plenty of christian honor killings, though which christian has the guts to come out and admit such horror?

and fatman, there has been no girl in the past few days who was lashed for wanting an abortion. that is an OLD article (which means you lied) and from a country where islam has reformed.

fatman's argument has been negated, with the help from God.

Yahya Snow said...


Thanks for listening to brother Jibreel in the video. I would like to add his inspiration is ISLAM. He spoke out BECAUSE of Islam not inspite of Islam.

As for the whole thing about sex edcuation and meeting your daughter's boyfriends etc.

It is better to educate your child not to have boyfriends/girlfriends. I'm in favour of educating boys and girls sin same sex environments.

We should try to reform the societies we are residing in.

Jesus would NOT approve of boyfriend-girlfriend relationships

Sadly, even Christians have given up on those teachings and have fallen in line with Western humanism. Talk about abandoning your faith.

Yahya Snow said...

As for the Islamophobes who peddle the story of this Turkish girl in Germany.

They are simply wading in the adolescent misery of this girl. Clearly her anecdotes do not reflect the Muslim community as a whole and reflect her confusion and her angst. Why use her as a political too? It is unfair.

Furthermore, ALL Religious people (ne they Jews, Christians Hindus or wahtever) should support the desire to prevent children from having sexual relations prior to marriage. NO parent wants their child to come home from school impregnated or infected with an STD.

The principal behind the parents is one of love NOT self-serving honour.

Of course, the few who do kill their children are committing a sin - this can not be condoned.


Yahya Snow said...


Your wish is my command:

PS, I agree with Ali's sentiment and have been of that view for some time now


Yahya Snow said...

As for the Quranic Verses...they all have a context. They have been explained is sad to see disingenuous types peddling the same false assertions despite having been admonished previously.

Our scholars instuct us to be friendly with and get to know our non-muslim neighbours. Prophet Muhammad (p) even visited a sick non-muslim lady. Furthermore, Christians even sent the Prophet milk. We are allowed to MARRY Jewish and Christian women. Please stop trying to make us out to be evil folk who want to butcher nonmuslims.

As for running away when the bullets start flying - that is insulting. alqaeda have killed Muslims in the past. They are the enemy of Muslims

Radical Moderate said...


If you read the article you would of realized just because SEX ED is taught in the public schools doesn't mean that the Muslim girls are attending. As a mater of fact this is even in the US, topics like SEX ED are optional. The parents can pull there child out of the class.

Also if sex ed is being taught in the Masjid well that's a good thing I guess. Although teaching a young girl that she is her husbands tilth and he can enter her anyway he pleases... Or that she can never refuse him... Or teaching young men that they can have sex with anyone there right hand posses's,.... Well I would have a problem with that.

But be that as it may I do believe that sex education should be a team effort, family, religious institutions and the class room.

Second your statement "99% of muslim girls AND BOYS do not have that boyfriend girlfriend crap christians do (thank God)"

First where is your evidence on this. I can tell you from personal experience, and from reading this article and many others that human nature always finds away. So you are just wrong on that. There are shows on Arabic TV that address the whole "Sexting" thing going on with Pios Muslim girls.

Boys and girls meet up they find a way, they find the time. And at that age, doesn't really take a whole lot of time.

The point is that just because you close your eyes to it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

As far as the honor killing is concerned, I do realize that this is a thing from primitive cultures. However it is in predominantly Muslim families that this happens. Primarily from the ME, and Asian societies.

The worse thing is the punishment for "Honor Killings" in Muslim society are either negligible or un inforced. For instance in Jordon it is a maximum of 7 years for killing ones child or spouse. (They may have increased this, but it was only a few years ago that it was this lenient) More often then not the murder's are welcomed as hero's in there MUSLIM society.

In Pakistan, a brother will kill a sister, and following Islamic law the father will forgive the son for the crime.

Sam again putting your head in the sand does not stop this practice.

As far as a girl being lashed in the past few days. I never said she was lashed I said she was SENTENCED TO BEING LASHED. Big difference.

Also look at the WHO stats on HIV\AIDS, the ME is in serious trouble. Where HIV infections are decreasing over all in western nations. It is exploding in ME countries.

Again hiding your head in the sand does not make it GO AWAY

Anonymous said...

All Christian single men battle lust of the flesh from time to time. In fact, let’s just make that ALL guys, whether they be single men or married men, Christian or non-Christian. One single man pal of mine said if his girlfriend ever knew his thoughts, she would never stop slapping him! Listen, men struggle with lust, and any single man who says otherwise is just lying out of fear, manipulative motives, embarrassment or a combination of the three.

The reaction of most single women reading the above about single men may vary:

■Some may feel disgusted or discouraged that all single men lust.
■Some may be thinking their single men is not like all the rest they’re dating them (um…dream on)
■Some may feel so uncomfortable discussing the single men and lust topic that they prefer to ignore it by invoking the Too Much Information (TMI) rule when the subject comes up.
Unfortunately, none of the above reactions will help a single gal really understand and connect with a single men, let alone help him in any way.

Single Men Need Help
What Christian single men really need is an environment of open communication and compassionate counsel that will help him nip lust in the bud.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

With the name of Allah, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.

Anthony Rogers, the fact that you have come in here and made the statements you have will now give me the confidence to rest assure you are not 'anonymous'.

I honestly should have known better and I think you are far above some of the antics that some people at AM display.

I sincerely apologize to you for any quips in the past and I really do think we can get beyond that. I am not here to sing Billy Joel we didn't start the fire.

I'm sure that (and in fact I can see that) there are Muslims who don't exercise self restraint. I hope we all continue to grow intellectually and spiritually.

I do believe that I was the one who brought up your dog, but I will have to correct that it was you who mentioned about not wanting me to date your daughter. I would advise you to leave your children out of it, something I would never DARE to venture.

If I was to mention anything about your children I am deserving of the lowest title on this earth and lower still. I think we both know better, I would not want to live on the same planet with a man who's children I insulted. Especially a man like you who home schools his children and values their future more so than many of us today by sending them off to the public school system.

So for any misunderstandings there I beseech Allah's forgiveness and humbly ask of yours in return.

As per your request...I can respect that.

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

btw @ Fatman it's 40-Love if your playing tennis and the only points you have scored seems to be in your head...

However, once you realized that Muslims were being banned right left and CENSOR you came over here where you could play.

I do hope you from time to time you manage to get some rest, and do a 40 hour weekly considering the shape our country is in.

Anonymous said...


I said...

"These kinds of problems are actually very rare in Muslim majority countries where traditional values are upheld"

I didn't say that there was a complete absence of problems, just that they are very rare in comparison to Christian countries. You desperately cataloging a few sporadic incidents does not change this.

You said

"The bottom line is that when ever you try to repress the natural, you create the un natural, which is un healthy"

Yeah that same attitude has permeated Western thinking for deacdes's certainly done wonders for the society that you live in huh FatMan ;)

Islam does not repress the natural but celebrates it. But this joyful aspect of life must be tempered by certain rules and regulations for the sake of society.

Sometimes Muslims fall short of the ideals of Islam and do not follow it correctly, but this in no way negates the fact that Islam is the best tradition for men and women to live by.

Western Christianity has failed the people of the West, this is why so many are turning to Islam.

Anthony Rogers said...


Thanks for your words. The part about "dating" my daughter was the result of a misreading on your part, I assure you....but all that is neither here nor there. I accept your apology, assuming it is sincere. Blessings...

Anonymous said...

Muslim Policeman Shoots Five Coptic Christians in Egypt
I guess it's hard to protect the Copts, when there are so many people willing to kill them, and when some of the killers have jobs as police officers. So much for Muslims protecting Christians in Muslim lands. Meanwhile, CAIR and ISNA are complaining about Islamophobia and bigotry in America.

CAIRO – An off-duty policeman boarded a train and opened fire on Tuesday, killing a 71-year-old Christian man and wounding his wife and four others, the Interior Ministry said. The attack, less than two weeks after the suicide bombing of a church killed 21, sparked new demonstrations by enraged Christians who pelted police with stones in southern Egypt.

The church attack on worshippers leaving a New Year's Mass in the Mediterranean port of Alexandria touched off three days of riots and demonstrations by furious Christians who criticized the government for failing to protect them and vented over what they see as persistent discrimination.

All of the casualties in the latest attack were Christians — four of them women — raising concerns it will ignite a new wave of protests by a community still traumatized by the suicide bombing.

Soon after the attack, hundreds of angry Copts gathered outside the hospital where the wounded were being treated in the central Egyptian province of Minya and stoned police.

It was not immediately clear whether the gunman knew his targets were Christians. But four of the five wounded were Christian women who stand out in the conservative south as they would probably not have been wearing headscarves as most Muslim women do.

The ministry statement identified the policeman as Amer Ashour Abdel-Zaher, a 23-year-old Muslim, and said he boarded the Cairo-bound train at the town of Samalout in Minya province and opened fire on the passengers with a handgun. (Read more.)

minoria said...

To Ali:

You mentioned Matt 15:4/Mark 7:10(the same event)where Jesus talks of the Mosaic law that he who is bad to his parents would be killed.He mentions it but his EMPHASIS is on the custom to not help parents financially because the money was for the temple(called CORBAN).

In fact Matt 23:2-3 has Jesus say to follow what the PHARISEES say.
They said:
1.To obey Roman law,which forbade them to carry out capital punishment,even when it was in Mosaic law(that's why they had to convince Pilate to kill Jesus)

2.There were DISPUTES among the Pharisees,there was the school of HILLEL(liberal)and that of SHAMMAI.
HILLEL was AGAINST POLYGAMY,not Shammai(Jesus was with Hillel)

The Essenes were against polygamy also,and against slavery 100%.

3.All Pharisees said "eye for eye,tooth for tooth"in Mosaic law was NOT literal,it was "the PRICE of an eye for the loss of an eye"(that would have been Jesus' view also).

Anonymous said...

The statement added that Abdel-Zaher, who was not wearing a uniform, was on his way to work at a town near Samalout. Police arrested him at his nearby home after he fled the scene and he was being questioned, according to the ministry statement.

The train originated in Assiut which, like Samalout, is home to a substantial Christian community.

The Health Ministry said an air ambulance has been dispatched to airlift any critical cases to the capital. Initially the wounded were taken to a government-run hospital, but the families insisted they be transferred to the church-run Good Shepherd Hospital in Samalout, said spokesman Abdel-Rahman Shahine.

Shooting attacks against Christians occasionally take place in Egypt's impoverished south, usually over commercial disputes, church building or allegations of cross-sectarian relationships.

In January 2010, gunmen opened fire on worshippers leaving a Coptic Christmas Eve church service in southern Egypt, killing six Christians and a Muslim guard.

Many Christians charge that the authorities are not doing enough to protect them and in fact allege some members of the security services turn a blind eye to anti-Christian incidents.

The attack comes as Egypt was bristling at international expressions of concern over the safety of its Christian population and recalled its ambassador to the Vatican following comments by Pope Benedict XVI.

In a speech Monday, Benedict cited recent attacks on Christians in Egypt, Iraq and Nigeria, and said governments must take effective measures to protect religious minorities.

Hossam Zaki, Egypt's Foreign Ministry spokesman, described Benedict's remarks as "unacceptable" and charged him with interfering in the country's internal affairs.

"Egypt will not allow non-Egyptians to interfere in its internal affairs under any pretext," he said.

Sheik Ahmed el-Tayyib, the imam of the Al-Azhar, the premier institute of Islamic learning in the Sunni Muslim world, also blasted the Pope's remarks.

"Protection of Christians is an internal affair and should be carried out by the governments as they (the Christians) are their citizens like other citizens," he said in a statement.

President Hosni Mubarak has repeatedly said that the government will do its utmost to protect Egypt's Christians and has accused foreign groups of being behind the New Year's church attack.

The New Year's suicide attack on the church reopened long festering wounds in a Christian community that says its members feel like second class citizens in their own country due to widespread discrimination.

Coptic Christians demonstrated around the country, including Assiut, in the aftermath of the bombing and called for better protection and equal rights.

Christians make up about 10 percent of Egypt's nearly 80 million people.

Anonymous said...

Christians are not the only ones being brutalized and murdered by Eygyptian police it would seem.

Christian Islamophobes - stop using the civil unrest in Egypt as a platform for you bigotry. Best thing we can do, as Muslims and Christians, is encourage interfaith co-operation and fellowship and extend our sympathies to those on both sides who are suffering.

Anonymous said...

You know, we as Muslims are forever hearing calls by Christians for us to condemn terrorism etc. Beside the fact that the vast majority do condemn such acts as well as the Ulema, who issue fatwa after fatwa, we hear this over and over like a mantra.

Scholars again and again decry these acts as wholly against our tradition, and if you take the time to look you will see these condemnations from the highest authorities repeated consistently throughout the years. But no, this is never good enough for the bigots is it?

Nor is it enough when Muslims band together to help protect the Copts in Egypt during their religious ceromonies...all we get is an attempt to disqualify these positive actions by desperately cataloging other events taking place so as to tarnish the efforts of those striving hard for peace.

You are wolves in Sheeps clothing

Anonymous said...


I would like to hear more condemnation from Christians for all the Christian/Western terrorism that has gone on in the Islamic world over the last century or more.

Millions of Muslims have perished in the last 100 hundred years due to European/American colonialism/invasion. From North Afica to Afghanistan. I ask this...

Where are all the moderate Christians in condemnation of this continued aggression?

Ali said...

fatman does the sex ed taught in churches teach young girls to silently submit to their husbands no matter what and recognize him as her rule whom she is forbidden to divorce?

and yeah the boyfriend/girlfriend stuff is common among muslims now, sadly. though a a great majority of us still refrain from such acts.
you know in places like pakistan its becoome a norm to have relationships before marriage.

fatman didn't you know 1/3 of honour killing victims are males? 100 boys each year die for family honor in pakistan.

no, most honor killings don't happen in the mid east. dad's, boyfriends always kill their wives/girlfriends and children, but no ones gonna label Mat 15:4/Mark 7:10/Exodus something on them.

Ali said...

minoria I follow Christian texts alone, not the big fancy grammer and heartful emotional sweetalk of those who do not agree with the actual verses themselves

Radical Moderate said...

Ali said....
"fatman didn't you know 1/3 of honour killing victims are males? 100 boys each year die for family honor in pakistan. "

No I didn't know that. So I guess that makes it OK then that 200 girls a year die in Pakistan for the family honor?

Anonymous said...


Are you willing to condemn all the acts of Christian/Western terrorism that has gone on in the Islamic world over the last century or more?

Like I mentioned earlier millions of Muslims from North Africa to Afghanistan have perished due to Christian European/American colonialism/invasion.

Are you willing to condemn this?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ali said...

are you high fatman? i NEVER said it was OK to kill 200 girls. in your post you spoke about honor killings in refference to WOMEN. i'm telling you MEN are also in te same boat due to TRIBAL/CULTURAL traditions.

how about you answer the rest of my response to you?

minoria said...

Hello Ali:

You wrote:
"minoria I follow Christian texts alone, not the big fancy grammer and heartful emotional sweetalk of those who do not agree with the actual verses themselves"

You are aware Jesus lived in a specific time,so context is used by scholars.Nothing I wrote is inaccurate.

Take Hillel and Shammai,they lived a mere generation before Jesus.Scholars think Jesus was influenced by Hillel.

Hillel,the greatest rabbinic scholar of all time,said,when asked by a Greek to define the Torah:"Do not do to others what you don't want them to do to you.Do the same the rest is commentary".

Jesus said it was:"Do to others..."And Matt has Jesus saying to follow the Pharisees.Then there were the Phraisees,Zealots,Essenes,Saducees.
I said before that even among the Pharisees there was debate.

Jesus said:"Give to Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God what is God's".It coincides with the Pharisee position of cooperation with Rome.

Ali said...

hi minoria,

can you explain to me with no big words about the verses matt 15:4 and mark 7:10. i have no clue what you said before about the emphasis and stuff.

anyways, that was a response to christians who sy islam commands honor killing etc

Yahya Snow said...


You wrote: The Essenes were against polygamy also,and against slavery 100%.

May I ask what yo base such a statemnt on. now, I do understand the Essenes were folk who shunned the high life and shunned marriage in favour of celibacy - that does not mean they were people who were opposed to polygamy or slavery.

Please let me know what you based such a statement on

minoria said...

Hello Yahya:

There are several sources,but if you want specific names,here are 2:

From the book by Todd Beall:"Joseph's Description of the essenes as Illustrated by the Dead Sea Scrolls":(Page 139,notes to pages 39-40):

Also by "The Center for Online Judaic Studies":,_Joseph_Baumgarten.

I chose what you would consider to be from scholars.

About slavery and Essenes(from "The Columbia Encyclopedia"

Also from "The Thomas More Studies",a long article by Miguel Martinez Lopez "The Life of the Essenes"

There is more but I have cited 4 serious sources.

minoria said...

Hello Ali:

Just for additional information about the Pharisee position,just because they were for cooperation with Rome doesnt mean they were 100% traitors.


In Josephus Pilate tried to set up a Roman standard with an eagle statue inside Jerusalem,the Jewish leaders and others (that means the Saducees and the Pharisees) made NON-VIOLENT RESISTANCE to the sacrilege,saying they would let themselves be killed without resistance rather than let them set up the statue.That was when Jesus was ALIVE,he certainly knew of it.

The same for CALIGULA,he wanted to set up his statue in the Temple in 38 AD,and tens of thousands of Jews and their leaders said they would blocked the way and let themselves be killed by the Romans,again non-violent resistance.

That was why the Romans exempted the Jews of the ENTIRE EMPIRE (5 million Jews lived out of Palestine,1 million in Palestine)from offering incense to a statue of the Emperor.


He wrote ROMANS 13:1-7,but certainly he would also be against obeying the state if it went against God."Give to Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God what is God's" allows for at least non-violent resistance to oppression,injustice.

minoria said...

Hello Ali:

To explain mark again,Jesus condemned the pratice of corban IF it went against helping your parents.

Corban was giving money to the temple.Some leaders said you did NOT have to help your parents if that money went to the temple.Jesus said it was wrong,you couldnt say:
"I wont help you,the money is for God,the religious experts say it is ok to act like this."